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Bugnini a liturgist?

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  • Walt Knowles
    In response to Tom s complaint about the current bishop of Rome not being a liturgist, and thus not understanding the liturgical reforms of Vatican II, I posed
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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      In response to Tom's complaint about the current bishop of Rome not
      being a liturgist, and thus not understanding the liturgical reforms of
      Vatican II, I posed the question, "Was Annibale Bugnini an academic
      liturgist?"

      I made it into the GTU library (wonderful places, these libraries--you
      can actually learn stuff in them) and did a little digging, and I think
      I'd like to answer "NO" (though it is possible, with more data, to make
      me change my mind).

      Bugnini was a Vincenzian priest ( C.M. ) who, two years after he entered
      parish ministry, completed his doctorate at the Angelicum in Rome. I
      wasn't able to find out whether his degree was theological (S.T.D) or
      legal (J.C.D), but given that his dissertation--which nobody seems to
      cite--was on the canon law changes surrounding the liturgy at the
      council of Trent and at the Angelicum, I'd put my chips on the JCD.

      For the next ten years of parish ministry (until 1947) the only
      publications are relatively popular writing in the Missionist Father's
      periodicals. None seem to have any connection to liturgy. He then got a
      mid-level position in Office of Sacred Worship, which then led him to
      become Secretary of that body. It appears that he got a position as a
      teacher of liturgy at two of the pontifical universities, though it
      seems that these positions may have been /ex officio/.

      In 1949, he began to publish in liturgy, but the content that I looked
      at in sample (and given the titles, I'd guess that all) are rubrical
      explanations and /praenotandae/ rather than original research. John
      XXIII appointed him as the secretary of the preparatory commission on
      the liturgy, out of which came the first drafts of what would become
      /Sacrosanctum Concilium/.

      In the bibliography given in his 70th birthday /Festschrift/, /Liturgia,
      opera divina e umana/, I don't find anything (except possibly his
      dissertation and two articles that look like they were drawn from it)
      that I would consider academic work in Liturgical Studies--either in
      history or theology.

      It's clear that, though he had enormous influence due to his position in
      the curia, Bugnini was not a liturgical scholar in the way that most of
      the other /periti/ for the liturgy were. He was a consumate politician
      and organizer who got things done. In comparison, even though I disagree
      with much of it, Ratzinger's /Spirit of the Liturgy/ has to be
      considered a fairly academic piece of liturgical theology, as does
      /Feast of Faith/ and a fist-full of articles.

      So my question back to this august and virtual assembly: Does this
      academic reflection on the liturgy matter? Should it matter? Are
      Ratzinger's musings more authoritative (by virtue of their academic
      foundation) that Bugnini's machinations (by virtue of their pastoral and
      political foundation) or vice-versa [N.B. I use "Ratzinger" rather than
      Benedict, because given the structures of the Roman Church, Benedict
      would definitionally trump Bugnini, and I want to focus on
      process/thought rather than position).

      Walter Knowles
      Berkeley, CA


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Douglas Cowling
      ... Bugnini was certainly the mover and shaker of of the post-council commission, but I was always under the impression that Josef Jungmann was the brains and
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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        On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Walt Knowles <wrknowles@...> wrote:

        >
        > So my question back to this august and virtual assembly: Does this
        > academic reflection on the liturgy matter?
        >

        Bugnini was certainly the mover and shaker of of the post-council
        commission, but I was always under the impression that Josef Jungmann was
        the brains and spirit behind the Liturgy schema which was the only draft to
        survive the initiial debates. Out of curiosity, what was Jungmann's
        academic background in liturgical studies? was there such a thing as
        academic liturgics before the Council? most of them seem to be historians
        or jurists.

        Doug Cowling


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James O'Regan
        My wee book on leaders of the liturgical movement (Tuzik) says Jungmann was a PhD in theology and wrote his second teaching dissertation in 1923, which
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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          My wee book on leaders of the liturgical movement (Tuzik) says Jungmann was a PhD in theology and wrote his second teaching dissertation in 1923, which resurfaced as "The Place of Christ in the Liturgy." IIRC from the comprehensives, there were centres of liturgical scholarship in Europe and later in America. Just as is the case today mostly, liturgical studies are part of regular theology faculties. What was the case were individual scholars who mentored followers. Most of the leaders in Tuzik's book, IIRC< were mentored by antecedenal leaders.

          Bugnini is noted in either of my two books. Yet my own (late) mentor was never a scholar but a very good presider and so a leader.

          All the best,

          James O'Regan
          oregan@...




          On 2009-12-02, at 2:58 PM, Douglas Cowling wrote:

          > Out of curiosity, what was Jungmann's
          > academic background in liturgical studies? was there such a thing as
          > academic liturgics before the Council? most of them seem to be historians
          > or jurists.
        • Tom Poelker
          I object to comparing the prejudicial word machinations with the word musings . Is there any basis for stating that the changes came from Bugnini? As much
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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            I object to comparing the prejudicial word "machinations" with the word
            "musings".

            Is there any basis for stating that the changes came from Bugnini?
            As much as I have read of his summation book, it seems to me that he
            claims that he was being a good bureaucrat and implementing the
            decisions of the council or presenting the consensus of the periti,
            which he does not claim to be.

            This eminence gris role assigned to Bugnini by the opponents of the
            reform seems to be misplaced to me.
            *

            Tom Poelker
            St. Louis. Missouri
            USA

            /-- Do all the easy nice things you can.
            It?s nice to see people smile,
            and it?s good practice. --/

            *


            Walt Knowles wrote:
            >
            >
            > In response to Tom's complaint about the current bishop of Rome not
            > being a liturgist, and thus not understanding the liturgical reforms of
            > Vatican II, I posed the question, "Was Annibale Bugnini an academic
            > liturgist?"
            >
            > I made it into the GTU library (wonderful places, these libraries--you
            > can actually learn stuff in them) and did a little digging, and I think
            > I'd like to answer "NO" (though it is possible, with more data, to make
            > me change my mind).
            >
            > Bugnini was a Vincenzian priest ( C.M. ) who, two years after he entered
            > parish ministry, completed his doctorate at the Angelicum in Rome. I
            > wasn't able to find out whether his degree was theological (S.T.D) or
            > legal (J.C.D), but given that his dissertation--which nobody seems to
            > cite--was on the canon law changes surrounding the liturgy at the
            > council of Trent and at the Angelicum, I'd put my chips on the JCD.
            >
            > For the next ten years of parish ministry (until 1947) the only
            > publications are relatively popular writing in the Missionist Father's
            > periodicals. None seem to have any connection to liturgy. He then got a
            > mid-level position in Office of Sacred Worship, which then led him to
            > become Secretary of that body. It appears that he got a position as a
            > teacher of liturgy at two of the pontifical universities, though it
            > seems that these positions may have been /ex officio/.
            >
            > In 1949, he began to publish in liturgy, but the content that I looked
            > at in sample (and given the titles, I'd guess that all) are rubrical
            > explanations and /praenotandae/ rather than original research. John
            > XXIII appointed him as the secretary of the preparatory commission on
            > the liturgy, out of which came the first drafts of what would become
            > /Sacrosanctum Concilium/.
            >
            > In the bibliography given in his 70th birthday /Festschrift/, /Liturgia,
            > opera divina e umana/, I don't find anything (except possibly his
            > dissertation and two articles that look like they were drawn from it)
            > that I would consider academic work in Liturgical Studies--either in
            > history or theology.
            >
            > It's clear that, though he had enormous influence due to his position in
            > the curia, Bugnini was not a liturgical scholar in the way that most of
            > the other /periti/ for the liturgy were. He was a consumate politician
            > and organizer who got things done. In comparison, even though I disagree
            > with much of it, Ratzinger's /Spirit of the Liturgy/ has to be
            > considered a fairly academic piece of liturgical theology, as does
            > /Feast of Faith/ and a fist-full of articles.
            >
            > So my question back to this august and virtual assembly: Does this
            > academic reflection on the liturgy matter? Should it matter? Are
            > Ratzinger's musings more authoritative (by virtue of their academic
            > foundation) that Bugnini's machinations (by virtue of their pastoral and
            > political foundation) or vice-versa [N.B. I use "Ratzinger" rather than
            > Benedict, because given the structures of the Roman Church, Benedict
            > would definitionally trump Bugnini, and I want to focus on
            > process/thought rather than position).
            >
            > Walter Knowles
            > Berkeley, CA
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Douglas Cowling
            ... Lercaro is the scapegoat on the cardinalitial level, Bugnini on the curial level. And of course, poor John XXIII will never be canonized because of it all.
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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              On 12/2/09 6:23 PM, "Tom Poelker" <TomPoelker@...> wrote:

              > This eminence gris role assigned to Bugnini by the opponents of the
              > reform seems to be misplaced to me

              Lercaro is the scapegoat on the cardinalitial level, Bugnini on the curial
              level.

              And of course, poor John XXIII will never be canonized because of it all.

              Doug Cowling
              Director of Music
              St. Philip's Church, Etobicoke
              Toronto
            • Walt Knowles
              Yes, and I would argue that the original centres of liturgical scholarship--as a scientific discipline--were the universities of Oxford and Cambridge. After
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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                Yes, and I would argue that the "original" centres of liturgical
                scholarship--as a scientific discipline--were the universities of Oxford
                and Cambridge. After all, it was J.M. Neale who coined the term
                "Comparative Liturgy" (in the 1850's!) for what people like William
                Palmer were doing in his /Origines Liturgicae/.

                Your comment about your own mentor, though, continues to raise the
                question: what difference does an academic discipline (with people like
                Jungmann, Baumstark, Taft, and Bishop) make when non-liturgists (or at
                least non academic-liturgists) like Bugnini, Rahner, and your mentor
                make all the impact?

                Walt Knowles
                Berkeley, CA


                James O'Regan wrote:
                > My wee book on leaders of the liturgical movement (Tuzik) says Jungmann was a PhD in theology and wrote his second teaching dissertation in 1923, which resurfaced as "The Place of Christ in the Liturgy." IIRC from the comprehensives, there were centres of liturgical scholarship in Europe and later in America. Just as is the case today mostly, liturgical studies are part of regular theology faculties. What was the case were individual scholars who mentored followers. Most of the leaders in Tuzik's book, IIRC< were mentored by antecedenal leaders.
                >
                > Bugnini is noted in either of my two books. Yet my own (late) mentor was never a scholar but a very good presider and so a leader.
                >
                > All the best,
                >
                > James O'Regan
                > oregan@...
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > On 2009-12-02, at 2:58 PM, Douglas Cowling wrote:
                >
                >
                >> Out of curiosity, what was Jungmann's
                >> academic background in liturgical studies? was there such a thing as
                >> academic liturgics before the Council? most of them seem to be historians
                >> or jurists.
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Walt Knowles
                Tom, Grow up and read the post. And answer the question, if you have an answer--and if you don t like the word machination (which is what a good bureaucrat
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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                  Tom,

                  Grow up and read the post.

                  And answer the question, if you have an answer--and if you don't like
                  the word "machination" (which is what a good bureaucrat does--they make
                  the machine work) come up with your own. And if you don't like "musing"
                  (which is what I think Ratzinger is doing--he's reflecting and
                  recombining, not doing "hardcore" history or theology in /Faith/ and
                  /Spirit/), feel free.

                  Remember that you posed the originating issue by posting a link to an
                  opinion piece in which Bugnini played a significant role and called out
                  the question:

                  I would begin by disputing the description of the present pope as a
                  "noted liturgist". Is anyone familiar with academic work done by
                  Joseph Ratzinger in liturgy?

                  As far as /eminence gris/, I don't know about "grey", but Bugnini is
                  given credit for the early drafts of /Sacrosanctum Concilium/, and in my
                  book that means that he earned (as originator or redactor, I don't care)
                  "eminence" fair and square.

                  Walt Knowles
                  Berkeley, CA

                  Tom Poelker wrote:
                  > I object to comparing the prejudicial word "machinations" with the word
                  > "musings".
                  >
                  > Is there any basis for stating that the changes came from Bugnini?
                  > As much as I have read of his summation book, it seems to me that he
                  > claims that he was being a good bureaucrat and implementing the
                  > decisions of the council or presenting the consensus of the periti,
                  > which he does not claim to be.
                  >
                  > This eminence gris role assigned to Bugnini by the opponents of the
                  > reform seems to be misplaced to me.
                  > *
                  >
                  > Tom Poelker
                  > St. Louis. Missouri
                  > USA
                  >
                  > /-- Do all the easy nice things you can.
                  > It?s nice to see people smile,
                  > and it?s good practice. --/
                  >
                  > *
                  >
                  >
                  > Walt Knowles wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> In response to Tom's complaint about the current bishop of Rome not
                  >> being a liturgist, and thus not understanding the liturgical reforms of
                  >> Vatican II, I posed the question, "Was Annibale Bugnini an academic
                  >> liturgist?"
                  >>
                  >> I made it into the GTU library (wonderful places, these libraries--you
                  >> can actually learn stuff in them) and did a little digging, and I think
                  >> I'd like to answer "NO" (though it is possible, with more data, to make
                  >> me change my mind).
                  >>
                  >> Bugnini was a Vincenzian priest ( C.M. ) who, two years after he entered
                  >> parish ministry, completed his doctorate at the Angelicum in Rome. I
                  >> wasn't able to find out whether his degree was theological (S.T.D) or
                  >> legal (J.C.D), but given that his dissertation--which nobody seems to
                  >> cite--was on the canon law changes surrounding the liturgy at the
                  >> council of Trent and at the Angelicum, I'd put my chips on the JCD.
                  >>
                  >> For the next ten years of parish ministry (until 1947) the only
                  >> publications are relatively popular writing in the Missionist Father's
                  >> periodicals. None seem to have any connection to liturgy. He then got a
                  >> mid-level position in Office of Sacred Worship, which then led him to
                  >> become Secretary of that body. It appears that he got a position as a
                  >> teacher of liturgy at two of the pontifical universities, though it
                  >> seems that these positions may have been /ex officio/.
                  >>
                  >> In 1949, he began to publish in liturgy, but the content that I looked
                  >> at in sample (and given the titles, I'd guess that all) are rubrical
                  >> explanations and /praenotandae/ rather than original research. John
                  >> XXIII appointed him as the secretary of the preparatory commission on
                  >> the liturgy, out of which came the first drafts of what would become
                  >> /Sacrosanctum Concilium/.
                  >>
                  >> In the bibliography given in his 70th birthday /Festschrift/, /Liturgia,
                  >> opera divina e umana/, I don't find anything (except possibly his
                  >> dissertation and two articles that look like they were drawn from it)
                  >> that I would consider academic work in Liturgical Studies--either in
                  >> history or theology.
                  >>
                  >> It's clear that, though he had enormous influence due to his position in
                  >> the curia, Bugnini was not a liturgical scholar in the way that most of
                  >> the other /periti/ for the liturgy were. He was a consumate politician
                  >> and organizer who got things done. In comparison, even though I disagree
                  >> with much of it, Ratzinger's /Spirit of the Liturgy/ has to be
                  >> considered a fairly academic piece of liturgical theology, as does
                  >> /Feast of Faith/ and a fist-full of articles.
                  >>
                  >> So my question back to this august and virtual assembly: Does this
                  >> academic reflection on the liturgy matter? Should it matter? Are
                  >> Ratzinger's musings more authoritative (by virtue of their academic
                  >> foundation) that Bugnini's machinations (by virtue of their pastoral and
                  >> political foundation) or vice-versa [N.B. I use "Ratzinger" rather than
                  >> Benedict, because given the structures of the Roman Church, Benedict
                  >> would definitionally trump Bugnini, and I want to focus on
                  >> process/thought rather than position).
                  >>
                  >> Walter Knowles
                  >> Berkeley, CA
                  >>
                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/ To write to the moderators, please email: liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • James O'Regan
                  This dichotomy (below) informs much of Fagerberg s (following Kavanagh) Prima Theologia. I m surprised anyone would want to have a beer with the chap so down
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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                    This dichotomy (below) informs much of Fagerberg's (following Kavanagh) Prima Theologia. I'm surprised anyone would want to have a beer with the chap so down on academe he is. Academic and presiding gifts are not mutually exclusive, especially with a good oratorical lecturer.

                    What academics can offer, with the right pastoral bent as Mark Searle insisted, is a means to add some rigour to chaos and with any luck provide ways and means to make the doing of liturgy that much better for the benefit of all. It is the rare one to be gifted. It is rarer still to be able to reflect on that gift and to commit paradosis with it.

                    Academic and non-academic liturgists can be congruent.

                    All the best,

                    James O'Regan
                    oregan@...




                    On 2009-12-02, at 6:34 PM, Walt Knowles wrote:

                    > Your comment about your own mentor, though, continues to raise the
                    > question: what difference does an academic discipline (with people like
                    > Jungmann, Baumstark, Taft, and Bishop) make when non-liturgists (or at
                    > least non academic-liturgists) like Bugnini, Rahner, and your mentor
                    > make all the impact?
                  • rhawkjmt@aol.com
                    Dom Aidan Kavanaugh, O.S.B. comes to mind. May his memory be eternal! J. Michael Thompson Pittsburgh, PA In a message dated 12/2/2009 7:12:46 P.M. Eastern
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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                      Dom Aidan Kavanaugh, O.S.B. comes to mind. May his memory be eternal!

                      J. Michael Thompson
                      Pittsburgh, PA


                      In a message dated 12/2/2009 7:12:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                      oregan@... writes:

                      What academics can offer, with the right pastoral bent as Mark Searle
                      insisted, is a means to add some rigour to chaos and with any luck provide ways
                      and means to make the doing of liturgy that much better for the benefit of
                      all. It is the rare one to be gifted. It is rarer still to be able to
                      reflect on that gift and to commit paradosis with it.



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Tom Poelker
                      I think machinations is a loaded term. I thought that the phrasing of the question showed bias. As far as eminence gris, I am returning to my contention that
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 2, 2009
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                        I think machinations is a loaded term.
                        I thought that the phrasing of the question showed bias.

                        As far as eminence gris, I am returning to my contention that opponents
                        of the reforms are adept at assigning guilt and blame for good things
                        they do not like. I do not think you are among them.

                        I do think that "grow up" is inappropriate for this list.

                        Just because I can't answer the question as posed does not mean that it
                        was posed well, or that it is my responsibility to answer, or that I can
                        not ask questions of my own or challenge perceived prejudicial phrasing
                        of the question.
                        *

                        Tom Poelker
                        St. Louis. Missouri
                        USA

                        /-- Do all the easy nice things you can.
                        It?s nice to see people smile,
                        and it?s good practice. --/

                        *


                        Walt Knowles wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Tom,
                        >
                        > Grow up and read the post.
                        >
                        > And answer the question, if you have an answer--and if you don't like
                        > the word "machination" (which is what a good bureaucrat does--they make
                        > the machine work) come up with your own. And if you don't like "musing"
                        > (which is what I think Ratzinger is doing--he's reflecting and
                        > recombining, not doing "hardcore" history or theology in /Faith/ and
                        > /Spirit/), feel free.
                        >
                        > Remember that you posed the originating issue by posting a link to an
                        > opinion piece in which Bugnini played a significant role and called out
                        > the question:
                        >
                        > I would begin by disputing the description of the present pope as a
                        > "noted liturgist". Is anyone familiar with academic work done by
                        > Joseph Ratzinger in liturgy?
                        >
                        > As far as /eminence gris/, I don't know about "grey", but Bugnini is
                        > given credit for the early drafts of /Sacrosanctum Concilium/, and in my
                        > book that means that he earned (as originator or redactor, I don't care)
                        > "eminence" fair and square.
                        >
                        > Walt Knowles
                        > Berkeley, CA
                        >
                        > Tom Poelker wrote:
                        > > I object to comparing the prejudicial word "machinations" with the word
                        > > "musings".
                        > >
                        > > Is there any basis for stating that the changes came from Bugnini?
                        > > As much as I have read of his summation book, it seems to me that he
                        > > claims that he was being a good bureaucrat and implementing the
                        > > decisions of the council or presenting the consensus of the periti,
                        > > which he does not claim to be.
                        > >
                        > > This eminence gris role assigned to Bugnini by the opponents of the
                        > > reform seems to be misplaced to me.
                        > > *
                        > >
                        > > Tom Poelker
                        > > St. Louis. Missouri
                        > > USA
                        > >
                        > > /-- Do all the easy nice things you can.
                        > > It?s nice to see people smile,
                        > > and it?s good practice. --/
                        > >
                        > > *
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Walt Knowles wrote:
                        > >
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> In response to Tom's complaint about the current bishop of Rome not
                        > >> being a liturgist, and thus not understanding the liturgical reforms of
                        > >> Vatican II, I posed the question, "Was Annibale Bugnini an academic
                        > >> liturgist?"
                        > >>
                        > >> I made it into the GTU library (wonderful places, these libraries--you
                        > >> can actually learn stuff in them) and did a little digging, and I think
                        > >> I'd like to answer "NO" (though it is possible, with more data, to make
                        > >> me change my mind).
                        > >>
                        > >> Bugnini was a Vincenzian priest ( C.M. ) who, two years after he
                        > entered
                        > >> parish ministry, completed his doctorate at the Angelicum in Rome. I
                        > >> wasn't able to find out whether his degree was theological (S.T.D) or
                        > >> legal (J.C.D), but given that his dissertation--which nobody seems to
                        > >> cite--was on the canon law changes surrounding the liturgy at the
                        > >> council of Trent and at the Angelicum, I'd put my chips on the JCD.
                        > >>
                        > >> For the next ten years of parish ministry (until 1947) the only
                        > >> publications are relatively popular writing in the Missionist Father's
                        > >> periodicals. None seem to have any connection to liturgy. He then got a
                        > >> mid-level position in Office of Sacred Worship, which then led him to
                        > >> become Secretary of that body. It appears that he got a position as a
                        > >> teacher of liturgy at two of the pontifical universities, though it
                        > >> seems that these positions may have been /ex officio/.
                        > >>
                        > >> In 1949, he began to publish in liturgy, but the content that I looked
                        > >> at in sample (and given the titles, I'd guess that all) are rubrical
                        > >> explanations and /praenotandae/ rather than original research. John
                        > >> XXIII appointed him as the secretary of the preparatory commission on
                        > >> the liturgy, out of which came the first drafts of what would become
                        > >> /Sacrosanctum Concilium/.
                        > >>
                        > >> In the bibliography given in his 70th birthday /Festschrift/,
                        > /Liturgia,
                        > >> opera divina e umana/, I don't find anything (except possibly his
                        > >> dissertation and two articles that look like they were drawn from it)
                        > >> that I would consider academic work in Liturgical Studies--either in
                        > >> history or theology.
                        > >>
                        > >> It's clear that, though he had enormous influence due to his
                        > position in
                        > >> the curia, Bugnini was not a liturgical scholar in the way that most of
                        > >> the other /periti/ for the liturgy were. He was a consumate politician
                        > >> and organizer who got things done. In comparison, even though I
                        > disagree
                        > >> with much of it, Ratzinger's /Spirit of the Liturgy/ has to be
                        > >> considered a fairly academic piece of liturgical theology, as does
                        > >> /Feast of Faith/ and a fist-full of articles.
                        > >>
                        > >> So my question back to this august and virtual assembly: Does this
                        > >> academic reflection on the liturgy matter? Should it matter? Are
                        > >> Ratzinger's musings more authoritative (by virtue of their academic
                        > >> foundation) that Bugnini's machinations (by virtue of their
                        > pastoral and
                        > >> political foundation) or vice-versa [N.B. I use "Ratzinger" rather than
                        > >> Benedict, because given the structures of the Roman Church, Benedict
                        > >> would definitionally trump Bugnini, and I want to focus on
                        > >> process/thought rather than position).
                        > >>
                        > >> Walter Knowles
                        > >> Berkeley, CA
                        > >>
                        > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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