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Re: [liturgy-l] The Peace

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  • dlewisaao@aol.com
    It appears that what we are discussing is both the when and how of the Peace, as different issues, which they are. From this discussion, it appears that
    Message 1 of 190 , Nov 30, 2008
      It appears that what we are discussing is both the "when" and "how" of the
      Peace, as different issues, which they are.

      From this discussion, it appears that there is greater scriptural and
      liturgical value in passing the Peace just before the Offertory. This having been
      said, I recall that some liturgists had thought that in Anglo-Catholic
      parishes in the Episcopal Church the Peace would be moved to the place of
      administration of the Sacrament (either before or after the Invitation) in order to
      copy RC practice, but this does not seem to have happened. (These same
      liturgists had also thought that A-C parishes would do the Penitential Order at the
      beginning of the Eucharist, which has happened in more places.)

      Much has been said about the Peace having turned into an elongated group
      scramble. I've seen this happen in any number of places and it does not set
      well with me liturgically, but at the same time I cannot help but wonder if in
      some congregations such a "scramble" does not help reinforce community each

      David Lewis

      In a message dated 11/30/2008 8:12:54 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      scottknitter@... writes:

      Another view from Fr. John-Julian OJN, in the customary of the Order
      of Julian of Norwich (Waukesha, Wisconsin USA):

      Few people realize that the Passing of the Peace just before the
      Eucharist proper begins (i.e., just before the Offertory) is not a
      "new" idea, nor is it merely a restoration of an ancient practice
      going back to apostolic times (see Romans 16:16, 1 Corinthians 16:20,
      2 Corinthians 13:12, 1 Thessalonians 5:26, and 1 Peter 5:14). The fact
      is that in the Western (Roman) Rite, the Passing of the Peace has
      *always* remained part of the ceremonies of Solemn Mss, but the
      tradition involved the passing of the Peace *only to the altar party
      and clergy or religious in choir.* It was done in an orderly way,
      passed from the Celebrant to the Deacon and Subdeacon who in turn
      passed in individually to the rest of the altar party and to the
      We rejoice in the restoration of the Peace but scorn the mad
      antiliturgical scramble which has sadly become the norm in too many
      places. The liturgical tradition is that the Peace is PASSED -- from
      the Celebrant at the altar to the last person present -- but carefully
      and reverently and in a dignified manner: to the first person in a
      row, for instance, who passes it to the next person, etc., without
      clambering over pews or bounding across the aisle, bringing the
      liturgical movement of the Eucharist to a dead halt. Whatever "sense"
      of *liturgy* has been built up through the Ministry of the Word is
      completely and totally shattered in the frenzied distraction of a
      lunatic scramble. (further, there are always those who are "skipped"
      as people dash around to their friends -- leaving the disregarded ones
      feeling rejected, rather than included.)

      1. After the concluding Collect, the Celebrant extends the arms (in
      *oblatio* gesture) and says, "The Peace of the Lord be always with
      2. The Celebrant passes the Peace first to the Deacon and then to the
      Subdeacon who then go in concert down the sides of the choir and to
      the Public Court, passing the Peace similarly to everyone in turn,
      saying "The Peace of the Lord be with you" or other similar words
      [i.e., Passer's hands on shoulders of the receiver; the receiver's
      hands on passer's elbows]. Celebrant stands with hands clasped.
      3. The Deacon and Subdeacon return in concert to the pavement south
      and north respectively of the altar [N.B., Others do *not* exchange
      the Peace among themselves!]
      4. Immediately after receiving the Peace, the Acolyte goes to Credence
      table and picks up Chalice stack [right hand on node, left on top] and
      goes to stand opposite the Deacon on pavement north of altar.

      -- The Manual Acts in the Celebration of the Holy Eucharist in Modern
      Anglo-Catholic Practice According to the Use of the Order of Julian of
      Norwich, Third Edition 2004

      On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 8:46 AM, Frank Senn <fcsenn@...> wrote:

      It would also be good to recognize that the greeting of peace IS A
      SOCIAL ACTIVITY---an expression of reconciliation, especially if
      needed, that will be consumed by table fellowship. So what if people
      enjoy greeting one another! Would we prefer that they keep their
      distance? If we want to teach its character as an act of
      reconciliation related to the eucharistic meal (Lord's Supper), we
      should stop doing it in other places, like at the end of prayer

      Scott R. Knitter
      Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA


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    • Frank Senn
      Gosh! FCS ... From: Gregory Holmes Singleton Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The Peace To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, December 8,
      Message 190 of 190 , Dec 8, 2008


        --- On Mon, 12/8/08, Gregory Holmes Singleton <roc1940@...> wrote:
        From: Gregory Holmes Singleton <roc1940@...>
        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] The Peace
        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, December 8, 2008, 1:39 AM

        Doug Cowling wrote:

        <<There is no such thing as an "objective liturgical

        standard", rather we see a rite through the prism of its cultural matrix.>>

        Certainly our fellow listmember Frank Senn has done an excellent job of illustrating this point in several of his works. Realizing that a prophet (and/or liturgical scholar--Frank is both) often is not as honored in his/her home town (or discussion list) as he/she ought to be, let me also suggest a thorough reading of the late (the "late" part perhaps suggesting greater authority to some) Cyrille Vogel's Introduction aux sources de l'histoire du culte chretien au moyen age (Spoleto: Centro italiano di studi sull'alto medioevo, 1966)--available in an excellent revision and translation (William G. Storey and Niels Krogh Rasmussen, O.P.) as Medieval Liturgy: An Introduction to the Sources (Washington, DC: The Pastoral Press, 1986). It is worth reading in its entirety, but the brief discussion of "The Peculiar Character of Liturgical Manuscripts" (pp. 62-64) is particular on-point for this thread.

        Personal note to Frank--so far as I am concerned, you can and do still have a place of great honor while living. That's my selfish preference. It's just easier to have a conversation with you that way.



        Gregory Holmes Singleton, Ph.D., CSF

        www.neiu.edu/ ~ghsingle/

        Community of St. Francis

        www.communityofstfr ancischicago. com/

        Ecumenical Catholic Communion

        www.ecumenical- catholic- communion. org/

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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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