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Re: back to the assembly

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  • Kenneth Doll
    I am not sure that I can really say much more than vespers, matins, and liturgy are services and when they occur, they are served by those present. I don t
    Message 1 of 62 , Aug 1, 2008
      I am not sure that I can really say much more than vespers, matins,
      and liturgy are services and when they occur, they are served by
      those present.
      I don't actually recall the term that may or may not have been used
      for when I was a "reader" (I don't remember the techical term) in TEC
      and led MP or EP. Any thoughts?
      KD

      --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, cantor03@... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 7/31/2008 11:46:11 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      > dollpka@... writes:
      >
      > This is usually served during Vespers
      > when served as part of a vigil. >>>>
      >
      > I have been interested in the use of the verb, serve,
      > employed liturgically by the Eastern Rites.
      >
      > I am familiar with the term as used in the West,
      > i.e., acolytes/servers/liturgical assistants at the
      > Liturgy, but only recently have been aware that
      > the term is employed differently in the East.
      >
      > I find that my dictionary makes reference to the Western
      > liturgical usage but not to the Eastern usage. According to
      > my dictionary, the verb came into the English language in
      > the 13th Century via French.
      >
      > I have no problem with the adaptation and definition
      > of serve as it appears to be used in the East, but I
      > am curious when the East started using this English
      > verb in their characteristic way. How did this come
      > about?
      >
      > Even if we have already had an explanation of this
      > subject on list, I'd still appreciate some information.
      >
      >
      > David Strang.
    • Frank Senn
      I don t recall any evidence of rubrics indicating posture. But here s an additional consideration. When Eucharists were separated from banquets early in the
      Message 62 of 62 , Aug 9, 2008
        I don't recall any evidence of rubrics indicating posture. But here's an additional consideration. When Eucharists were separated from banquets early in the 2nd century (Emperor Trajan had banned supper clubs), and the synaxis occurred in the morning rather than in the evening (e.g. Letter of Pliny to Trajan), would the posture for receiving the bread and cup be the same as at a reclining banquet? Maybe people just stood around. By the third century Christians were celebrating Eucharists on the graves of their martyrs and other faithful departed, in the style of the Roman refrigeria. Did these celebrants sit at the mensa? It seems to me that there were several postures for receiving Communion in the early centuries: reclining at banquets, standing in someone's main room or courtyard, sitting around the grave mensa, walking to stations in the basilicas.

        Frank C. Senn

        Douglas Cowling <cowling.douglas@...> wrote: On 8/9/08 1:12 PM, "Frank Senn" <fcsenn@...> wrote:

        > Since one could rent banquet halls, one could probably also rent couches.
        > There may have been some wealthy people in early Christian communities who had
        > spacious villas like Cicero. I suspect that there were seldom more than a few
        > dozen people in most Christian house churches. If there were more they could
        > rent banquet halls, like Greco-Roman supper clubs did.

        In "The Shape of the Liturgy", Dix assumed that in the pre-Nicene eucharist
        people reclined and shared the bread but stood to take the cup. He states
        that the readings and prayers were spoken standing up.

        Although it's a little dated in its details, I still think that his
        description of a pre-Constantinian eucharist if it had taken place in 20th
        century London is a delight and a perfect stimulus for discussion at an
        adult education session on the liturgy (Shape, pp.142-144)

        I wonder if the 4th century little old ladies complained when they moved to
        the basilicas and there were no couches for them ...

        Doug Cowling
        Director of Music
        St. Philip's Church, Toronto






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