- Subject was:
Re: [liturgy-l] Baptizing in the name of the Creator, Redeemer, and
Giver of ...
I have tried to send this twice before with no result, so there are some
elisions in case a particular three letter word was being automatically
Is there any reason for changing the Trinitarian Formula other than the
desire to avoid what is perceived as s--ist-language?
Has anyone on this list come upon a rephrasing of the Trinitarian
Formula which they find satisfactorily avoids what might be interpreted
as s--ist-language and to be theologically orthodox?
Does it make any difference if the Trinitarian Formula is being used in
Baptism (where it seems to be mandated by Scripture) or in a blessing or
some other rite?
St. Louis, Missouri
-- When you were born, you were crying
and everyone around you was smiling.
-- Live your life so at the end,
you're the one who is smiling and
everyone around you is crying.
> In short, no.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> The approved texts in the various vernaculars are to be used for the
> sake of the congregation.
> The books approved by the national/regional episcopal conference for
> specific languages should be used. Languages and books not approved by
> the relevant episcopal conference are not to be used. The Novus Ordo
> Latin is the default text.
> Traveling parties of another language may bring and use their home
> country books for their liturgical celebrations, but it would be illicit
> for a visiting presider to use his own vernacular's text for a
> congregation not familiar with that language. If they do not have a
> vernacular in common, the presider should use the Novus Ordo Latin
> original texts printed in the Sacramentary. Lay readers should proclaim
> the Scripture in the local vernacular from the approved Lectionary.
> I hope this covers the situation you have in mind. This is the letter
> of the law as I understand it. What happens in actuality and what is
> justified under a broad interpretation of pastoral need might be another
> I am sorry that I don't recall which documents or texts to cite. I
> would expect that it would be the very early, post-Vatican II
> implementation documents. Note that the recent permissions for Latin in
> special circumstances were for use of the Tridentine Missal of Paul V
> and that the Novus Ordo Latin has always been permitted and officially
> Tom Poelker
> St. Louis, Missouri
> -- When you were born, you were crying
> and everyone around you was smiling.
> -- Live your life so at the end,
> you're the one who is smiling and
> everyone around you is crying.
> bpeters@... <mailto:bpeters%40christscollege.com> wrote:
> > Greetings
> > I understand Roman Catholics in liturgy may use Latin
> > and/or the "vernacular".
> > I am looking for a rule, regulation or otherwise to clarify
> > Eg. I understand it would be fine to use some (authorised) Spanish in
> > RC liturgy if there was someone present in the congregation who spoke
> > Spanish...
> > But can one, for example, use (authorised) French liturgical texts in
> > Hong Kong - when no one in the congregation uses French?
> > Where is this specified please?
> > Thanks for any help
> > Bosco Peters
> > www.liturgy.co.nz
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yesterday I wrote
>> 4. Why are Father or Son any less titles than Adonai or Messiah?that should be "titles are NOT indifferent and interchangeable", of
>> all human terms describe limited aspects of the unlimited Divine?
> they are all titles, but titles are indifferent and interchangeable.
> They have specific meanings. See below.