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Trinitarian Formula

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  • Tom Poelker
    Subject was: Re: [liturgy-l] Baptizing in the name of the Creator, Redeemer, and Giver of ... I have tried to send this twice before with no result, so there
    Message 1 of 50 , Mar 5, 2008
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      Subject was:
      Re: [liturgy-l] Baptizing in the name of the Creator, Redeemer, and
      Giver of ...
      I have tried to send this twice before with no result, so there are some
      elisions in case a particular three letter word was being automatically
      screened out.

      Is there any reason for changing the Trinitarian Formula other than the
      desire to avoid what is perceived as s--ist-language?

      Has anyone on this list come upon a rephrasing of the Trinitarian
      Formula which they find satisfactorily avoids what might be interpreted
      as s--ist-language and to be theologically orthodox?

      Does it make any difference if the Trinitarian Formula is being used in
      Baptism (where it seems to be mandated by Scripture) or in a blessing or
      some other rite?

      Tom Poelker
      St. Louis, Missouri
      USA
      -- When you were born, you were crying
      and everyone around you was smiling.
      -- Live your life so at the end,
      you're the one who is smiling and
      everyone around you is crying.



      TomPoelker@... wrote:

      > In short, no.
      >
      > The approved texts in the various vernaculars are to be used for the
      > sake of the congregation.
      > The books approved by the national/regional episcopal conference for
      > specific languages should be used. Languages and books not approved by
      > the relevant episcopal conference are not to be used. The Novus Ordo
      > Latin is the default text.
      >
      > Traveling parties of another language may bring and use their home
      > country books for their liturgical celebrations, but it would be illicit
      > for a visiting presider to use his own vernacular's text for a
      > congregation not familiar with that language. If they do not have a
      > vernacular in common, the presider should use the Novus Ordo Latin
      > original texts printed in the Sacramentary. Lay readers should proclaim
      > the Scripture in the local vernacular from the approved Lectionary.
      >
      > I hope this covers the situation you have in mind. This is the letter
      > of the law as I understand it. What happens in actuality and what is
      > justified under a broad interpretation of pastoral need might be another
      > matter.
      >
      > I am sorry that I don't recall which documents or texts to cite. I
      > would expect that it would be the very early, post-Vatican II
      > implementation documents. Note that the recent permissions for Latin in
      > special circumstances were for use of the Tridentine Missal of Paul V
      > and that the Novus Ordo Latin has always been permitted and officially
      > encouraged.
      >
      > Tom Poelker
      > St. Louis, Missouri
      > USA
      > -- When you were born, you were crying
      > and everyone around you was smiling.
      > -- Live your life so at the end,
      > you're the one who is smiling and
      > everyone around you is crying.
      >
      > bpeters@... <mailto:bpeters%40christscollege.com> wrote:
      >
      > > Greetings
      > >
      > > I understand Roman Catholics in liturgy may use Latin
      > > and/or the "vernacular".
      > >
      > > I am looking for a rule, regulation or otherwise to clarify
      > "vernacular".
      > > Eg. I understand it would be fine to use some (authorised) Spanish in
      > > RC liturgy if there was someone present in the congregation who spoke
      > > Spanish...
      > >
      > > But can one, for example, use (authorised) French liturgical texts in
      > > Hong Kong - when no one in the congregation uses French?
      > >
      > > Where is this specified please?
      > >
      > > Thanks for any help
      > >
      > > Bosco Peters
      > > www.liturgy.co.nz
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • asteresplanetai
      +++ hi. Ooops!!-- Yesterday I wrote ... that should be titles are NOT indifferent and interchangeable , of course. Thanx, John burnett.
      Message 50 of 50 , Mar 13, 2008
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        +++

        hi.

        Ooops!!--

        Yesterday I wrote

        >> 4. Why are Father or Son any less titles than Adonai or Messiah?
        >> Don't
        >> all human terms describe limited aspects of the unlimited Divine?
        >
        > they are all titles, but titles are indifferent and interchangeable.
        > They have specific meanings. See below.

        that should be "titles are NOT indifferent and interchangeable", of
        course.

        Thanx,

        John burnett.
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