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BCP Latin Mass in San Fran - YouTube

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  • Scott Knitter
    The liturgy of the Word in two parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcdfVbKmFkY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POgylDNW5PY Texts here: pp. 209ff.
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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    • George Carlson
      Somehow, a Latin version of a BCP Mass seems like an ultimate oxymoron . unless, of course, you have a LOT of VERY old Romans (from Rome, not RC) in your
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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        Somehow, a Latin version of a BCP Mass seems like an ultimate oxymoron .
        unless, of course, you have a LOT of VERY old Romans (from Rome, not RC) in
        your parish.

        In omnibus pax,

        George Carlson

        St. Paul's (TEC), Murfreesboro, TN





        _____

        From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Scott Knitter
        Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 11:32 AM
        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [liturgy-l] BCP Latin Mass in San Fran - YouTube



        The liturgy of the Word in two parts:

        http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcdfVbKmFkY>
        com/watch?v=EcdfVbKmFkY
        http://www.youtube. <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POgylDNW5PY>
        com/watch?v=POgylDNW5PY

        Texts here: pp. 209ff.
        http://justus.
        <http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Latin1979/LPP_07_Eucharist.doc>
        anglican.org/resources/bcp/Latin1979/LPP_07_Eucharist.doc

        --
        Scott R. Knitter
        Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
        http://glenwoodplac <http://glenwoodplace.blogspot.com> e.blogspot.com





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steve Benner
        The rest has been posted if you follow the link to Cantuariensis (the poster). Truly interesting. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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          The rest has been posted if you follow the link to Cantuariensis (the
          poster). Truly interesting.


          At 10/5/2007 12:32 PM, Scott Knitter wrote:

          >The liturgy of the Word in two parts:
          >
          ><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcdfVbKmFkY>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcdfVbKmFkY
          >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POgylDNW5PY
          >
          >Texts here: pp. 209ff.
          ><http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Latin1979/LPP_07_Eucharist.doc>http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Latin1979/LPP_07_Eucharist.doc
          >
          >--
          >Scott R. Knitter
          >Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
          ><http://glenwoodplace.blogspot.com>http://glenwoodplace.blogspot.com
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sean Ferrell
          (sarcasm) Seems to be really drawing a crowd. (/sarcasm) If you watch some of the other videos it looks like there are about 10 folks in the congregation. As I
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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            (sarcasm) Seems to be really drawing a crowd. (/sarcasm)

            If you watch some of the other videos it looks like there are about 10
            folks in the congregation.

            As I recall, the only circumstances Anglicans have traditionally been
            allowed to use Latin liturgically according to church law, was in the
            context of a university.

            Sean+

            The Rev. Sean Ferrell, Rector
            Saint Luke's Episcopal Church
            Jackson, TN

            Sent from my iPhone

            On Oct 5, 2007, at 11:32 AM, "Scott Knitter" <scottknitter@...>
            wrote:

            > The liturgy of the Word in two parts:
            >
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcdfVbKmFkY
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POgylDNW5PY
            >
            > Texts here: pp. 209ff.
            > http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bcp/Latin1979/
            > LPP_07_Eucharist.doc
            >
            > --
            > Scott R. Knitter
            > Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
            > http://glenwoodplace.blogspot.com
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Douglas Cowling
            ... The Latin BCP was first issued in 1562 and intended primarily for royal and collegiate churches. There is still an annual Latin service in St. Mary the
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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              On 10/5/07 2:59 PM, "George Carlson" <vistantn@...> wrote:

              > Somehow, a Latin version of a BCP Mass seems like an ultimate oxymoron .
              > unless, of course, you have a LOT of VERY old Romans (from Rome, not RC) in
              > your parish.

              The Latin BCP was first issued in 1562 and intended primarily for royal and
              collegiate churches. There is still an annual Latin service in St. Mary the
              Virgin, the University Church of Oxford. Several Oxbridge colleges have
              continous traditions of occasional services in Latin, the rationale being
              that Latin was a "vernacular" lanaguage at the universities. I've never
              seen any evidence the Greek BCP was ever used liturgically. There are
              several settings of Renaissance Latin texts which are now recognized as
              being used with the Latin BCP rather than the Sarum rite (the Tallis
              Magnificat and Nunc Dimittis is the best example).


              Doug Cowling
              Director of Music
              St. Philip's Church, Toronto
            • Ormonde Plater
              As I recall, one or more of the 16th century BCPs had a Latin version for the guys at Oxford and Cambridge, since Latin was the vernacular (at least
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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                As I recall, one or more of the 16th century BCPs had a Latin version for
                the guys at Oxford and Cambridge, since Latin was the vernacular (at least
                officially) in those places.



                Ormonde Plater





                From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of George Carlson
                Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 1:59 PM
                To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] BCP Latin Mass in San Fran - YouTube



                Somehow, a Latin version of a BCP Mass seems like an ultimate oxymoron .
                unless, of course, you have a LOT of VERY old Romans (from Rome, not RC) in
                your parish.

                In omnibus pax,

                George Carlson

                St. Paul's (TEC), Murfreesboro, TN





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Scott Knitter
                The schola is chanting way too slowly. They ve been watching too much EWTN. This is in my category of I m glad someone is doing this, but I don t think
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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                  The schola is chanting way too slowly. They've been watching too much EWTN.

                  This is in my category of "I'm glad someone is doing this, but I don't
                  think anyone else needs to do it." I feel that way about some of the
                  things done in liturgies at St Gregory of Nyssa, San Fran, as well.

                  On 10/5/07, Sean Ferrell <ferrellsd@...> wrote:

                  > If you watch some of the other videos it looks like there are about 10
                  > folks in the congregation.

                  --
                  Scott R. Knitter
                  Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
                  http://glenwoodplace.blogspot.com
                • Chris McConnell
                  ... version for ... least ... The 1549 also had to be translated into Latin so Bucer could read it and give his evaluation of it in the Censura. He taught at
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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                    --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ormonde Plater" <oplater@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > As I recall, one or more of the 16th century BCPs had a Latin
                    version for
                    > the guys at Oxford and Cambridge, since Latin was the vernacular (at
                    least
                    > officially) in those places.

                    The 1549 also had to be translated into Latin so Bucer could read it
                    and give his evaluation of it in the Censura. He taught at Cambridge,
                    but couldn't speak any English.

                    Chris
                  • Chris McConnell
                    ... much EWTN. Amen that ... not just way too slowly, but way too evenly. You can practically put stems on those notes and make them straight quarter notes
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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                      --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Knitter" <scottknitter@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > The schola is chanting way too slowly. They've been watching too
                      much EWTN.

                      Amen that ... not just way too slowly, but way too evenly. You can
                      practically put stems on those notes and make them straight quarter
                      notes and half notes. It makes it absolutely dreary, IMHO.

                      Chris
                    • DJP4LAW@aol.com
                      Doug, if you told me that there s an Old Byzantine BCP setting or that St. John Chrysostom wrote one, I d believe it without question. You - with so many
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 5, 2007
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                        Doug, if you told me that there's an Old Byzantine BCP setting or that St. John Chrysostom wrote one, I'd believe it without question. You - with so many others - are an inestimable gift to this list.





                        Peace
                        Dwight Penas
                        Minneapolis
                        ____________________________
                        I DISTRUST those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. -- Susan B. Anthony






                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Douglas Cowling <dcowling@...>
                        To: Liturgy-Well-Done <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Fri, 5 Oct 2007 4:00 pm
                        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] BCP Latin Mass in San Fran - YouTube

























                        On 10/5/07 2:59 PM, "George Carlson" <vistantn@...> wrote:



                        > Somehow, a Latin version of a BCP Mass seems like an ultimate oxymoron .

                        > unless, of course, you have a LOT of VERY old Romans (from Rome, not RC) in

                        > your parish.



                        The Latin BCP was first issued in 1562 and intended primarily for royal and

                        collegiate churches. There is still an annual Latin service in St. Mary the

                        Virgin, the University Church of Oxford. Several Oxbridge colleges have

                        continous traditions of occasional services in Latin, the rationale being

                        that Latin was a "vernacular" lanaguage at the universities. I've never

                        seen any evidence the Greek BCP was ever used liturgically. There are

                        several settings of Renaissance Latin texts which are now recognized as

                        being used with the Latin BCP rather than the Sarum rite (the Tallis

                        Magnificat and Nunc Dimittis is the best example).



                        Doug Cowling

                        Director of Music

                        St. Philip's Church, Toronto





















                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Frank Senn
                        This translation of the 1549 Prayer Book was important because it also served as the basis of the Latin version used in the universities AND in Ireland. The
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 6, 2007
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                          This translation of the 1549 Prayer Book was important because it also served as the basis of the Latin version used in the universities AND in Ireland. The Irish complained that English wasn't their vernacular. So until a Gaelic translation of the Bible and Prayer Book could be made available (both were needed for Protestant worship), permission was given to use the Latin version of the Prayer Book. Countless priests then "counterfeited" the Roman Mass, which helped the people remain Catholic until priests educated at Louvain could return to Ireland and hold the true Roman Mass in barns and cellars.

                          Frank C. Senn

                          Chris McConnell <cdmcconnell@...> wrote: --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "Ormonde Plater" <oplater@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > As I recall, one or more of the 16th century BCPs had a Latin
                          version for
                          > the guys at Oxford and Cambridge, since Latin was the vernacular (at
                          least
                          > officially) in those places.

                          The 1549 also had to be translated into Latin so Bucer could read it
                          and give his evaluation of it in the Censura. He taught at Cambridge,
                          but couldn't speak any English.

                          Chris






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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