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Re: [liturgy-l] Liturgical Allegory

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  • Douglas Cowling
    ... Actually, there are practically no historical surveys of the development of the minutiae of ceremonial. I encounter them during research on the liturgical
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
      On 9/5/07 10:30 AM, "Tom Poelker" <TomPoelker@...> wrote:

      > Doug, is this sort of material from Jungmann, or can you give me some other
      > sources you use?
      > Tom Poelker
      > St. Louis, Missouri
      > USA

      Actually, there are practically no historical surveys of the development of
      the minutiae of ceremonial. I encounter them during research on the
      liturgical context of choral music in various periods. For instance, it was
      a musical historian who pointed out that high mass was rarely sung at the
      court of Louis XIV, but rather a silent low mass was said at the altar while
      the choir performed a half-hour ³grand motet². The creative allegorizations
      appear mostly in 20th century popular ³explanations² of the liturgy,
      especially for ritual actions whose purpose has been lost to historical
      memory. For example, the moving of the missal to the ³north² side of the
      altar for the Gospel was piously allegorized as Jesus¹s journey northward to
      preach the Gospel.


      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music
      St. Philip's Church, Toronto




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lewis H Whitaker
      And I d heard that it was a swipe at the Non-Latin tribes north of Italy. The Gospel (or missal) was moved to symbolize evangelizing the Germans and the
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
        And I'd heard that it was a "swipe" at the Non-Latin tribes north of Italy. The Gospel (or missal) was moved to symbolize evangelizing the Germans and the "Northerners" from the civilized lands of Rome.

        What was the real reason, allegory aside, for this movement?

        Lew


        -----Original Message-----
        >From: Douglas Cowling <dcowling@...>
        >Sent: Sep 5, 2007 11:37 AM
        >To: Tom Poelker <TomPoelker@...>, Liturgy-Well-Done <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
        >Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Liturgical Allegory
        >
        >On 9/5/07 10:30 AM, "Tom Poelker" <TomPoelker@...> wrote:
        >
        >> Doug, is this sort of material from Jungmann, or can you give me some other
        >> sources you use?
        >> Tom Poelker
        >> St. Louis, Missouri
        >> USA
        >
        >Actually, there are practically no historical surveys of the development of
        >the minutiae of ceremonial. I encounter them during research on the
        >liturgical context of choral music in various periods. For instance, it was
        >a musical historian who pointed out that high mass was rarely sung at the
        >court of Louis XIV, but rather a silent low mass was said at the altar while
        >the choir performed a half-hour ³grand motet². The creative allegorizations
        >appear mostly in 20th century popular ³explanations² of the liturgy,
        >especially for ritual actions whose purpose has been lost to historical
        >memory. For example, the moving of the missal to the ³north² side of the
        >altar for the Gospel was piously allegorized as Jesus¹s journey northward to
        >preach the Gospel.
        >
        >
        >Doug Cowling
        >Director of Music
        >St. Philip's Church, Toronto
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Tom Poelker
        I hope you didn t assume that I knew the original reason for moving the missal north. Was it just an imitation of the procession of the separate gospel book to
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
          I hope you didn't assume that I knew the original reason for moving the
          missal north.
          Was it just an imitation of the procession of the separate gospel book
          to the ambo?

          Tom Poelker
          St. Louis, Missouri
          USA
          ---
          It is not we who do Christ the favor of
          worshiping him; it is Christ who
          empowers us by strengthening us, and
          enabling us to fight for the things that
          are worth fighting for, the things that endure;
          and that is a promise worth fighting for,
          worth dying for, and worth living for.
          -- Peter Gomes, "Strength for the Journey."




          dcowling@... wrote:

          > On 9/5/07 10:30 AM, "Tom Poelker" <TomPoelker@...
          > <mailto:TomPoelker%40aim.com>> wrote:
          >
          > > Doug, is this sort of material from Jungmann, or can you give me
          > some other
          > > sources you use?
          > > Tom Poelker
          > > St. Louis, Missouri
          > > USA
          >
          > Actually, there are practically no historical surveys of the
          > development of
          > the minutiae of ceremonial. I encounter them during research on the
          > liturgical context of choral music in various periods. For instance,
          > it was
          > a musical historian who pointed out that high mass was rarely sung at the
          > court of Louis XIV, but rather a silent low mass was said at the altar
          > while
          > the choir performed a half-hour ³grand motet². The creative
          > allegorizations
          > appear mostly in 20th century popular ³explanations² of the liturgy,
          > especially for ritual actions whose purpose has been lost to historical
          > memory. For example, the moving of the missal to the ³north² side of the
          > altar for the Gospel was piously allegorized as Jesus¹s journey
          > northward to
          > preach the Gospel.
          >
          > Doug Cowling
          > Director of Music
          > St. Philip's Church, Toronto
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Douglas Cowling
          ... Yes. The only survival of the original procession to the ambo occurred in the Tridentine high mass where the Gospel was sung facing north at a portable
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 5, 2007
            On 9/5/07 3:32 PM, "Tom Poelker" <TomPoelker@...> wrote:

            > I hope you didn't assume that I knew the original reason for moving the
            > missal north.
            > Was it just an imitation of the procession of the separate gospel book
            > to the ambo?

            Yes. The only survival of the original procession to the ambo occurred in
            the Tridentine high mass where the Gospel was sung facing north at a
            portable lectern. This became allegorized as bringing the Gospel to the
            north which was symbolically the location of evil. The old English morality
            plays were staged in a circular ampitheatre with the stage for Heaven in the
            east and the stage for Hell in the north.

            Doug Cowling
            Director of Music
            St. Philip's Church, Toronto
          • Ron Miller
            Boone Porter, my old professor, once suggested that it goes back to the days when the celebrant, usually a bishop, was seated behind the altar and would send
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 6, 2007
              Boone Porter, my old professor, once suggested that it goes back to the
              days when the celebrant, usually a bishop, was seated behind the altar
              and would send the deacon, who would be seated on his right hand, to go
              get the Gospel book from that end of the altar (which would be the north
              end) and then continue down into the body of the church to read the
              Gospel for the day.

              Douglas Cowling wrote:
              > On 9/5/07 3:32 PM, "Tom Poelker" <TomPoelker@...> wrote:
              >
              >> I hope you didn't assume that I knew the original reason for moving the
              >> missal north.
              >> Was it just an imitation of the procession of the separate gospel book
              >> to the ambo?
              >
              > Yes. The only survival of the original procession to the ambo occurred in
              > the Tridentine high mass where the Gospel was sung facing north at a
              > portable lectern. This became allegorized as bringing the Gospel to the
              > north which was symbolically the location of evil. The old English morality
              > plays were staged in a circular ampitheatre with the stage for Heaven in the
              > east and the stage for Hell in the north.
              >
              > Doug Cowling
              > Director of Music
              > St. Philip's Church, Toronto
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To write to the owners/moderators, please send an email to:
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              --
              Ron Miller (The Rev. Ronald H,) Baltimore, MD
              It was only when Samuel Seabury had been consecrated by nonjuring
              Scottish bishops, themselves in "impaired communion" with the Church of
              England, that Anglican thought began to find a place for the idea of a
              historic episcopate with no constitutional ties to an established church.
              Charles Hefling, in an essay in
              Gays and the Future of Anglicanism, p. 85
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