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Sarum High Mass

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  • Douglas Cowling
    The offertory incensations at a Sarum High Mass celebrated at Merton College, Oxford, for Candelmas 1997. This was the pre-Reformation rite in England and the
    Message 1 of 22 , Jun 5, 2007
      The offertory incensations at a Sarum High Mass celebrated at Merton
      College, Oxford, for Candelmas 1997. This was the pre-Reformation rite in
      England and the only liturgy ever experienced by Henry VIII. Note the two
      candles on the altar and the senior academics beong censed and kissing the
      Gospel in their choir stalls.

      http://www.evertube.com/videos/watch/21pnAoiGnjs/sarum-rite-use-of-salisbury
      -high-mass.html

      Alas, they are incorrectly singing John Sheppard's exqusite "Gaude, Gaude,
      Gaude, Gaude Virgo Maria" which was written for Vespers. Nice singing
      though.


      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music
      St. Philip's Church, Toronto
    • Douglas Cowling
      ... I think most historians would say that there is a family of local Latin liturgies in the West which developed with both interdependence and independence.
      Message 2 of 22 , Jun 18, 2007
        On 6/18/07 5:47 PM, "James Keeling" <jameskeeling@...> wrote:

        > I thought there were other rites pre-Reformation in England - Hereford, for
        > example.
        > But maybe they were only slight variants in Sarum...
        >
        > Do you know, Doug?
        >
        I think most historians would say that there is a family of local Latin
        liturgies in the West which developed with both interdependence and
        independence. Certainly no historian would say that all of the European
        liturgies are derivative from one ur-rite in Rome. The "use" of the diocese
        of Rome shows the same development as any other local liturgy: for
        instance, the Mandatum was borrowed from the Ambrosian rite in Milan and the
        recitation of the Nicene Creed from the Gallican "use" of the Merovingians.
        By the time of the imposition of the Roman use on the whole Western church
        in 1575, only Milan and Toledo had maintained a substantive independence.

        The Sarum use in Salisbury was certainly the dominant diocesan liturgy in
        England. In many instances, it preserved older features than the Roman
        liturgy, for example, the repeition of the inttroit antphon after both the
        psalm verses and doxology and the preparation of the oblation at another
        altar away from the high altar.

        Both the "Roman" and the "Sarum" rites became tools of polemic
        romanticization in the 19th century. Ultarmontanists viewed the Tridentine
        rite as the pure ur-liturgy -- the "perennial" mass -- which all should use.
        Everything else, and the Sarum rite in particular, was decadent and an
        abberration. Nationalistic ritualists treated the Sarum rite as if it was
        a national rite with continuity back to the church before Augustine of
        Canterbury and the Celtic church.

        We still hear these ahistorical assertions among both the tridentistas for
        whom liturgical development is anathema and Celtic romanicists who claim
        that the tradition was a kind of organic Christiantiy not tainted with Roman
        toxins.

        Both are equally unhistorical.

        Doug Cowling
        Director of Music
        St. Philip's Church, Toronto
      • Douglas Cowling
        ... The centralizing movement towards uniformity that is so characteristic of the 16th century can also be seen in England in which before the Reformation, all
        Message 3 of 22 , Jun 18, 2007
          On 6/18/07 10:19 PM, "Chris McConnell" <cdmcconnell@...> wrote:

          > Actually, by that time, Toledo's independence wasn't particularly
          > substantive -- relatively speaking, anway. The Mozarabic rite had
          > been revived, but its 16th-century revived form was heavily Romanized.
          > Even the more authentic Mozarabic rite suppressed in the 11th century
          > had likely seen some degree of Romanization by that time.

          The centralizing movement towards uniformity that is so characteristic of
          the 16th century can also be seen in England in which before the
          Reformation, all dioceses were ordered to adopt the Sarum Use. That
          uniformity made the imposition of the Prayer Book of 1549 much easier. The
          advent of printing made the homogenization all that much easier.

          Question for hardcore historians ... Was only the Sarum rite reimposed by
          Mary Tudor in 1555 or were the diocesan uses such as York and Hereford
          revived? I think perhaps not .... ?

          Doug Cowling
          Director of Music
          St. Philip's Church, Toronto
        • James Keeling
          I thought there were other rites pre-Reformation in England - Hereford, for example. But maybe they were only slight variants in Sarum... Do you know, Doug?
          Message 4 of 22 , Jun 18, 2007
            I thought there were other rites pre-Reformation in England - Hereford, for
            example.
            But maybe they were only slight variants in Sarum...

            Do you know, Doug?

            Thank you,
            James
            eBay Anglican liturgy books @ * http://tinyurl.com/4geg8 Go look!*

            On 6/5/07, Douglas Cowling <dcowling@...> wrote:
            >
            > The offertory incensations at a Sarum High Mass celebrated at Merton
            > College, Oxford, for Candelmas 1997. This was the pre-Reformation rite in
            > England and the only liturgy ever experienced by Henry VIII. Note the two
            > candles on the altar and the senior academics beong censed and kissing the
            > Gospel in their choir stalls.
            >
            >
            > http://www.evertube.com/videos/watch/21pnAoiGnjs/sarum-rite-use-of-salisbury
            > -high-mass.html
            >
            > Alas, they are incorrectly singing John Sheppard's exqusite "Gaude, Gaude,
            > Gaude, Gaude Virgo Maria" which was written for Vespers. Nice singing
            > though.
            >
            > Doug Cowling
            > Director of Music
            > St. Philip's Church, Toronto
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Simon Kershaw
            ... Hereford and York, like Sarum, were not rites . They were uses of the Roman rite. simon -- Simon Kershaw simon@kershaw.org.uk Saint Ives, Cambridgeshire
            Message 5 of 22 , Jun 18, 2007
              James Keeling wrote:
              > I thought there were other rites pre-Reformation in England - Hereford,
              > for
              > example.
              > But maybe they were only slight variants in Sarum...

              Hereford and York, like Sarum, were not 'rites'. They were 'uses' of the
              Roman rite.

              simon

              --
              Simon Kershaw
              simon@...
              Saint Ives, Cambridgeshire
            • Chris McConnell
              ... church ... independence. Actually, by that time, Toledo s independence wasn t particularly substantive -- relatively speaking, anway. The Mozarabic rite
              Message 6 of 22 , Jun 18, 2007
                --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <dcowling@...> wrote:

                > By the time of the imposition of the Roman use on the whole Western
                church
                > in 1575, only Milan and Toledo had maintained a substantive
                independence.

                Actually, by that time, Toledo's independence wasn't particularly
                substantive -- relatively speaking, anway. The Mozarabic rite had
                been revived, but its 16th-century revived form was heavily Romanized.
                Even the more authentic Mozarabic rite suppressed in the 11th century
                had likely seen some degree of Romanization by that time.

                Chris
              • Michael
                You are correct. There was a Hereford rite, and several others as well. Shalom b Yeshua haMoshiach, +Michael Joe Thannisch _____ From:
                Message 7 of 22 , Jun 18, 2007
                  You are correct. There was a Hereford rite, and several others as well.



                  Shalom b'Yeshua haMoshiach,



                  +Michael Joe Thannisch



                  _____

                  From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of James Keeling
                  Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:48 PM
                  To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Sarum High Mass



                  I thought there were other rites pre-Reformation in England - Hereford, for
                  example.
                  But maybe they were only slight variants in Sarum...






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Douglas Cowling
                  ... I think more cows were allowed in church. Doug Cowling Director of Music St. Philip s Church, Toronto
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                    On 6/19/07 5:16 PM, "James Keeling" <jameskeeling@...> wrote:

                    > How did Hereford differ from Sarum?


                    I think more cows were allowed in church.

                    Doug Cowling
                    Director of Music
                    St. Philip's Church, Toronto
                  • Douglas Cowling
                    ... I don t know of many liturgical historians who have done much recent work on the local English rites. W.K. Lowther Clarke s Liturgy and Worship (SPCK
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                      On 6/19/07 5:41 PM, "James Keeling" <jameskeeling@...> wrote:

                      > Good response!
                      >
                      > I have read a while ago about different colours being used in different
                      > uses.
                      >
                      > However, is anything accessible easily which discusses just what rites and
                      > uses were used where in medieval England, and how they differed?


                      I don't know of many liturgical historians who have done much recent work on
                      the local English rites. W.K. Lowther Clarke's "Liturgy and Worship" (SPCK
                      1959) has a lot good incidental detail as part of his commentary on the
                      history of the Prayer Books. This is Wordsworth and Frere country. There
                      is considerable interest among musicians in the music of the Sarum office,
                      and a scholarly project is systematially posting free downlaods of the chant
                      -- a terrific resource.

                      http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/sarum-downloads.htm

                      The music of the mass with good historical prefaces on ceremonial is also
                      underway.

                      You can even read my article on medieval drama and the York rite:
                      "The liturgical celebration of Corpus Christi in Medieval York". Records of
                      Early English Newsletter (1976)

                      Sigh ... so long ago now!

                      Doug Cowling
                      Director of Music
                      St. Philip's Church, Toronto
                    • Chris McConnell
                      ... reimposed by ... Ooh, that s a good one ... my first guess is the same as yours, and I would doubt it, but it s a great question, and I ve never considered
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                        --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, Douglas Cowling <dcowling@...> wrote:

                        > Question for hardcore historians ... Was only the Sarum rite
                        reimposed by
                        > Mary Tudor in 1555 or were the diocesan uses such as York and Hereford
                        > revived? I think perhaps not .... ?

                        Ooh, that's a good one ... my first guess is the same as yours, and I
                        would doubt it, but it's a great question, and I've never considered
                        it before.

                        Chris
                      • Chris McConnell
                        ... Most people would consider them uses rather than separate rites , but the
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                          --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <mjthannisch@...> wrote:

                          <<You are correct. There was a Hereford rite, and several others as
                          well.>>

                          Most people would consider them "uses" rather than separate "rites",
                          but the distinction between "rite" and "use" is really a question of
                          taxonomy.

                          Chris
                        • Sean W. Reed
                          For Corpus Christi this year, we did a Solemn Mass according to the Sarum Use. It took quite a bit of practice as it is quite different from our norm. I found
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                            For Corpus Christi this year, we did a Solemn Mass according to the
                            Sarum Use. It took quite a bit of practice as it is quite different
                            from our norm.

                            I found it to be a very tidy use however.

                            Part of what is quite different is the bringing in of items. The two
                            taperers are responsible for one bringing in water, wine, and bread
                            from the sacristy to the credence and the other water, towel, and
                            basin, As the Sub Deacon goes down to chant the Epistle (in Latin)
                            the taperers with their candles go to the door to meet the principal
                            acolyte (who was the crucifer in the entrance procession) as he comes
                            in with humeral veil bearing the chalice, paten etc. These he places
                            on the credence and takes the burse to the Altar, and kisses the
                            altar. He then removes the Humeral Veil and goes to his place.

                            A Pall is not used. Instead of a pall, a folded corporal is used.

                            During the singing of the Gradual, the Deacon washes his hands and
                            goes to the altar to spread the corporals. At the same time the Sub
                            washes his hands and places bread on the paten and pours wine into the
                            chalice and then asks the blessing of the Celebrant on the water. He
                            pours this in and recovers. The preparation of the chalice is done at
                            the credence.

                            Another remarkable feature is the use of "Texts" which are decorated
                            books, similar to what we think of as a Gospel Book. The sub and
                            deacon both carry one in and out and the Epistle and Gospel are
                            chanted from then. Additionally, as the Celebrant in censed and as
                            the choir is censed each person kisses the text after having been censed.

                            Theses are just a few of the interesting points of the liturgy. An
                            excellent resource was recommended to us by the liturgist at Salisbury
                            Cathedral and is available through Antico.

                            I certainly recommend that any parish with an active interest in
                            traditional liturgy, consider learning the Sarum Mass. It takes a lot
                            of work initially, but once you prepare the materials, it is not that
                            bad. We did not have a complete bi-lingual handout this time with the
                            entire ordinary of the mass, and that is something we hope to prepare
                            before our next Solemn Mass according to the Sarum Use.


                            Faithfully,

                            Sean W. Reed
                          • James Morgan
                            You might want to contact Fr. Aidan Keller (hieromonachusaidanus@yahoo.com) He is an Orthodox monk in Austin, TX. He edited an english version of the Sarum
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                              You might want to contact Fr. Aidan Keller (hieromonachusaidanus@...)
                              He is an Orthodox monk in Austin, TX. He edited an english version of the
                              Sarum Missal which is out of print right now but a re-issue is planned. He
                              served the Sarum liturgy at one time. He is an accomplished Latinist as
                              well.
                              Also FYI, the Occidentalis@... list is devoted to the 'western rite'
                              in its various historic manifestations.

                              Rdr. James
                              Olympia, WA
                              PS to Sean, where is your parish? Sounds interesting!
                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Sean W. Reed
                              Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 6:57 AM
                              To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [liturgy-l] Re: Sarum High Mass

                              For Corpus Christi this year, we did a Solemn Mass according to the
                              Sarum Use. It took quite a bit of practice as it is quite different
                              from our norm.

                              I found it to be a very tidy use however.

                              Part of what is quite different is the bringing in of items. The two
                              taperers are responsible for one bringing in water, wine, and bread
                              from the sacristy to the credence and the other water, towel, and
                              basin, As the Sub Deacon goes down to chant the Epistle (in Latin)
                              the taperers with their candles go to the door to meet the principal
                              acolyte (who was the crucifer in the entrance procession) as he comes
                              in with humeral veil bearing the chalice, paten etc. These he places
                              on the credence and takes the burse to the Altar, and kisses the
                              altar. He then removes the Humeral Veil and goes to his place.

                              A Pall is not used. Instead of a pall, a folded corporal is used.

                              During the singing of the Gradual, the Deacon washes his hands and
                              goes to the altar to spread the corporals. At the same time the Sub
                              washes his hands and places bread on the paten and pours wine into the
                              chalice and then asks the blessing of the Celebrant on the water. He
                              pours this in and recovers. The preparation of the chalice is done at
                              the credence.

                              Another remarkable feature is the use of "Texts" which are decorated
                              books, similar to what we think of as a Gospel Book. The sub and
                              deacon both carry one in and out and the Epistle and Gospel are
                              chanted from then. Additionally, as the Celebrant in censed and as
                              the choir is censed each person kisses the text after having been censed.

                              Theses are just a few of the interesting points of the liturgy. An
                              excellent resource was recommended to us by the liturgist at Salisbury
                              Cathedral and is available through Antico.

                              I certainly recommend that any parish with an active interest in
                              traditional liturgy, consider learning the Sarum Mass. It takes a lot
                              of work initially, but once you prepare the materials, it is not that
                              bad. We did not have a complete bi-lingual handout this time with the
                              entire ordinary of the mass, and that is something we hope to prepare
                              before our next Solemn Mass according to the Sarum Use.


                              Faithfully,

                              Sean W. Reed
                            • Sean W. Reed
                              ... ... ... We are in Omaha, Nebraska. St. Barnabas Parish www.saintbarnabas.net
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                                --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "James Morgan" <rdrjames@...> wrote:
                                "...
                                > PS to Sean, where is your parish? Sounds interesting!"


                                We are in Omaha, Nebraska. St. Barnabas Parish www.saintbarnabas.net
                              • James Keeling
                                How did Hereford differ from Sarum? James eBay Anglican liturgy books @ * http://tinyurl.com/4geg8 Go look!* ... [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                                  How did Hereford differ from Sarum?

                                  James

                                  eBay Anglican liturgy books @ * http://tinyurl.com/4geg8 Go look!*

                                  On 6/19/07, Sean W. Reed <skreed1@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com <liturgy-l%40yahoogroups.com>, "James
                                  > Morgan" <rdrjames@...> wrote:
                                  > "...
                                  > > PS to Sean, where is your parish? Sounds interesting!"
                                  >
                                  > We are in Omaha, Nebraska. St. Barnabas Parish www.saintbarnabas.net
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • James Keeling
                                  Good response! I have read a while ago about different colours being used in different uses. However, is anything accessible easily which discusses just what
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                                    Good response!

                                    I have read a while ago about different colours being used in different
                                    uses.

                                    However, is anything accessible easily which discusses just what rites and
                                    uses were used where in medieval England, and how they differed?

                                    Yours,
                                    James

                                    eBay Anglican liturgy books including English Missal @
                                    *http://tinyurl.com/4geg8
                                    Go look!*

                                    On 6/19/07, Douglas Cowling <dcowling@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > On 6/19/07 5:16 PM, "James Keeling" <jameskeeling@...<jameskeeling%40googlemail.com>>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > How did Hereford differ from Sarum?
                                    >
                                    > I think more cows were allowed in church.
                                    >
                                    > Doug Cowling
                                    > Director of Music
                                    > St. Philip's Church, Toronto
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Lewis H Whitaker
                                    Ugh. That was soooooo bad. L ... From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Douglas Cowling Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                                      Ugh. That was soooooo bad.

                                      L

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com]On
                                      Behalf Of Douglas Cowling
                                      Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:30 AM
                                      To: Liturgy-Well-Done
                                      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Re: Sarum High Mass


                                      On 6/19/07 5:16 PM, "James Keeling" <jameskeeling@...> wrote:

                                      > How did Hereford differ from Sarum?

                                      I think more cows were allowed in church.

                                      Doug Cowling
                                      Director of Music
                                      St. Philip's Church, Toronto






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Michael
                                      In Honduras, I encouraged decorated Epistles. But that must be some service if the subdeacon has to recover in the middle of the service. (Couldn t resist)
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jun 19, 2007
                                        In Honduras, I encouraged decorated Epistles. But that must be some service
                                        if the subdeacon has to recover in the middle of the service. (Couldn't
                                        resist)



                                        Shalom b'Yeshua haMoshiach,



                                        +Michael Joe Thannisch



                                        _____

                                        From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                        Of Sean W. Reed. He
                                        pours this in and recovers. The preparation of the chalice is done at
                                        the credence.

                                        Another remarkable feature is the use of "Texts" which are decorated
                                        books, similar to what we think of as a Gospel Book. The sub and
                                        deacon both carry one in and out and the Epistle and Gospel are
                                        chanted from then. Additionally, as the Celebrant in censed and as
                                        the choir is censed each person kisses the text after having been censed.






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Douglas Cowling
                                        ... Sorry. I was referring to Sandon s editions of the mass, not the McMaster project. Doug Cowling Director of Music St. Philip s Church, Toronto
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jun 22, 2007
                                          On 6/23/07 1:28 AM, "John Botari" <jb@...> wrote:

                                          > The music of the mass with good historical prefaces on ceremonial is also
                                          >> underway.
                                          >
                                          > I was already aware of the work on the Office, but I didn't know that
                                          > this group was also doing work on the Mass.


                                          Sorry. I was referring to Sandon's editions of the mass, not the McMaster
                                          project.


                                          Doug Cowling
                                          Director of Music
                                          St. Philip's Church, Toronto
                                        • DJP4LAW@aol.com
                                          And as I recall, in Hartford, HEREFORD, and Hampshire, urricanes ardly ever appen, so I wonder whether there is a connection. Peace Dwight Penas
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jun 22, 2007
                                            And as I recall, "in Hartford, HEREFORD, and Hampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly ever 'appen," so I wonder whether there is a connection.





                                            Peace
                                            Dwight Penas
                                            Minneapolis
                                            ____________________________
                                            I SHALL NOT DIE, for I am within the Life. I have the whole of life springing up as a fountain within me. -- St. Symeon the New Theologian.






                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Michael <mjthannisch@...>
                                            To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:55 pm
                                            Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Sarum High Mass

























                                            You are correct. There was a Hereford rite, and several others as well.



                                            Shalom b'Yeshua haMoshiach,



                                            +Michael Joe Thannisch



                                            _____



                                            From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf

                                            Of James Keeling

                                            Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:48 PM

                                            To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com

                                            Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Sarum High Mass



                                            I thought there were other rites pre-Reformation in England - Hereford, for

                                            example.

                                            But maybe they were only slight variants in Sarum...



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















                                            ________________________________________________________________________
                                            AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Michael
                                            Just skinny cows since not aving uricanes the kine ardly ave any grass to heat. Ducking and running, +Michael Joe Thannisch _____ From:
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Jun 22, 2007
                                              Just skinny cows since not 'aving 'uricanes the kine 'ardly 'ave any grass
                                              to heat.



                                              Ducking and running,

                                              +Michael Joe Thannisch



                                              _____

                                              From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                              Of DJP4LAW@...
                                              Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:06 PM
                                              To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Sarum High Mass




                                              And as I recall, "in Hartford, HEREFORD, and Hampshire, 'urricanes 'ardly
                                              ever 'appen," so I wonder whether there is a connection.

                                              Peace
                                              Dwight Penas
                                              Minneapolis
                                              ____________________________
                                              I SHALL NOT DIE, for I am within the Life. I have the whole of life
                                              springing up as a fountain within me. -- St. Symeon the New Theologian.

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Michael <mjthannisch@ <mailto:mjthannisch%40sbcglobal.net>
                                              sbcglobal.net>
                                              To: liturgy-l@yahoogrou <mailto:liturgy-l%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                                              Sent: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:55 pm
                                              Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Sarum High Mass

                                              You are correct. There was a Hereford rite, and several others as well.

                                              Shalom b'Yeshua haMoshiach,

                                              +Michael Joe Thannisch

                                              _____

                                              From: liturgy-l@yahoogrou <mailto:liturgy-l%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
                                              [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogrou <mailto:liturgy-l%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com] On
                                              Behalf

                                              Of James Keeling

                                              Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 4:48 PM

                                              To: liturgy-l@yahoogrou <mailto:liturgy-l%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com

                                              Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Sarum High Mass

                                              I thought there were other rites pre-Reformation in England - Hereford, for

                                              example.

                                              But maybe they were only slight variants in Sarum...

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                              __________________________________________________________
                                              AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
                                              AOL at AOL.com.

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • John Botari
                                              Hello Doug -- ... I was already aware of the work on the Office, but I didn t know that this group was also doing work on the Mass. A question -- I thought
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Jun 22, 2007
                                                Hello Doug --

                                                Concerning the Sarum Mass and Office, you wrote (in part):

                                                > There is considerable interest among musicians in the music of the Sarum
                                                > office, and a scholarly project is systematially posting free downloads
                                                > of the chant -- a terrific resource.
                                                >
                                                > http://www.humanities.mcmaster.ca/~renwick/sarum-downloads.htm
                                                >
                                                > The music of the mass with good historical prefaces on ceremonial is also
                                                > underway.

                                                I was already aware of the work on the Office, but I didn't know that
                                                this group was also doing work on the Mass.

                                                A question --

                                                I thought that the work on the Mass of the Sarum Use had largely been
                                                done already by Nick Sandon in his six-volume set _The Use of Salisbury_,
                                                which appeared in roughly 1984 - 1991. This conflates the Missal, the
                                                Ordinal, the Collectar, the Lectionary, the Consuetudinary, the Gradual,
                                                etc., etc, into one set, so that, as Dr. Sandon himself says, "those
                                                competent to celebrate or assist in a Mass according to the Use of
                                                Salisbury will find, I hope, in these volumes all of the essential
                                                material and information." Given that, I would wonder why the group
                                                led by Dr. Renwick at McMaster would find it necessary to re-edit the
                                                material for the Mass.

                                                Incidentally, the set _The Use of Salisbury_ is available through
                                                Antico Church Music, at the following address --

                                                http://www.anticoedition.co.uk/

                                                Admittedly, these volumes are not free (or even, by any strech of
                                                the imagination, cheap!) but that hardly merits a new edition.

                                                John Botari
                                                Chorister, All Saints' (Anglian) Church
                                                Sakatoon SK
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