Re: [liturgy-l] General Intercessions
- Prayers of the People form VI has a specific place for thanksgivings just before the general confession. My own congregation at the daily office places specific thanksgivings just ahead of intercessions, while in the Eucharist, we have thanksgivings toward the end of the litany, together with specific intercessions.
+Michael Joe Thannisch
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Poelker
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: [liturgy-l] General Intercessions
The intercessions are certainly prone to near infinite
extension and items of questionable taste or privacy.
Does anyone else have a problem with where to put
If we are praying the "General Intercessions," shouldn't we
be limited to intercessory prayer at this point?
Where is a good place to insert local prayers of
thanksgiving? No place is provided in the RC Mass.
Do other liturgical denominations have a designated place
and style for local prayers of thanksgiving?
St. Louis, Missouri
Falling in love consists merely in
uncorking the imagination and
bottling the common-sense.
--- Helen Rowland
> In my mind, the prayer of the church, i.e., thanksgivings and
> petitions, are the weakest part of present liturgies. There seems to
> be little distance between stale and run-amuck.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Posted by: "Tom Poelker" TomPoelker@... tapoelker<snip>
> Date: Sun Dec 3, 2006 3:10 pm ((PST))
> John, thanks for these explanations.
> However, how many orthodox patriarchs are there now?
> I understand the five (counting Rome) ancient patriarchates,
> but how does Moscow become a patriarchate? It seems to me
> that I have heard others.
> Posted by: "dlewisaao@..." dlewisaao@...
> Here is info from a website on the above topic and more (look up
while the information provided from the search results in the prior
message was correct, a more particular response to Tom's question
about patriarchal titles and autocephalies might be found at the
Ecumenical Patriarch's website: http://www.ec-patr.org/en/links.htm
There you will find the following list:
five ancient patriarchates:
[Patriarchate of Rome www.vatican.va]
[Patriarchate of Constantinople, or] Ecum. Patriarchate
Patriarchate of Alexandria www.greekorthodox-alexandria.org
Patriarchate of Antioch www.antiochpat.org
Patriarchate of Jerusalem www.jerusalem-patriarchate.org
five historical patriarchates:
Patriarchate of Moscow www.mospat.ru
Patriarchate of Serbia spc.org.yu
Patriarchate of Romania www.patriarhia.ro
Patriarchate of Bulgaria bulch.tripod.com/boc/
Patriarchate of Georgia www.patriarchate.ge/
seven (or eight) other autocephalous churches:
Church of Cyprus
Church of Greece www.ecclesia.gr
Church of Albania www.orthodoxalbania.org
Church of Poland www.orthodox.pl
Church of Czech - Slovakia www.pravoslav.gts.cz
Church of Finland www.ort.fi
Church of Estonia www.orthodoxa.org
In addition, the Orthododox Church in America (www.oca.org) is
recognized as autocephalous by the "russian bloc" of churches (and
thus by the vast majority of orthodox faithful in the world) but not
by the "greek bloc", who have the ecumenical patriarch on their side.
So, counting the OCA, there are seventeen Orthodox churches. As you
can see, nine of their senior hierarchs have the title 'patriarch'.
The others are styled either 'archbishop' or 'metropolitan'.
The list does not mention the Autonomous Churches of Mount Sinai
(which has only about 20 faithful but has been autonomous since it
fell behind enemy lines in the muslim conquest and was therefore cut
off from the rest of the orth. world), and of Japan, and there might
be one or two more. Autonomous churches are self-governing
archdioceses, but they are not fully autocephalous, because the
elections of their hierarchs must be approved by their mother
churches. Also, there is usually only one (arch)bishop there, and
since it takes 3 bishops to make a new bishop, they have no choice
but to invite the bishops of the mother church (for Sinai,
Jerusalem; for Japan, the OCA) when they want to make a new one.
The title 'patriarch' is historical, either assumed long ago by the
see and then recognized by ecumenical synod, or awarded by an
ecumenical synod. Otherwise, the titles of a church remain as they
were upon receiving autocephaly. So in Greece the first hierarch is
an archbishop, and 'metropolitan' is an honorific, whereas in the
OCA, it's the other way around, following russian custom in which
metropolitans are higher than archbishops.
Regards from rainy kampala,