Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

More to Olympiada

Expand Messages
  • Janet Roth
    Dear Sister in Christ and in Questions, O I think I will like getting to know you! My husband is in the Greek Orthodox church. (His mother and brother were
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 24, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Sister in Christ and in Questions,
      O I think I will like getting to know you!

      My husband is in the Greek Orthodox church. (His mother and brother
      were chrismated about five years before he was but into OCA -- his
      mother belongs to an Antiochian parish and his brother to a Western
      rite parish, but have the same bishop.)

      One of the things I do in my parish is to serve as a Lay Eucharistic
      Visitor -- At one time I was taking Eucharist out to three people (and
      their families joined). One time I took Eucharist to one of these
      people while she was in the hospital --- it was especially meaningful
      because I had been her LEV for a couple years and she died unexpectedly
      a few days after leaving the hospital. One of the others now makes it
      to church at least a couple times a month. The third I still take
      Eucharist. The ordained try to go see her once a month or so and i go
      in between their visits.
      It is a very meaningful part of what I do. We usually visit for a
      while before we have Eucharist. There are a couple forms of service
      designated for a lay person in this setting. I have them on my
      computer and would be glad to send them to you off list if you would
      like to see them.

      I am sure that most of the saints (those our calendars hold in
      common as well as those specific to each of our traditions) have been
      called names far more troubling than those you have been called.
      Perhaps it is a sign that you are living in what the celts call "thin
      places" or others call "the borders of the holy." Courage.

      Admitting that asking too many questions may be a character flaw
      does not stop me from doing it. So far I have not upset any bishops or
      other clergy, but then part of the Episcopal (or Anglican) ethos is
      that asking questions is not only normal but encouraged.

      Janet
    • sharon brown
      i know i usually lurk, but a recent post raised a question in me - as most of you know i am an episcopal benedictine solitary - unfortunatly my disability is
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 25, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        i know i usually lurk, but a recent post raised a question in me -

        as most of you know i am an episcopal benedictine solitary - unfortunatly my
        disability is making it more and more difficult to attend corporate worship.

        i served as an subdeacon for years (is that the right term - not an ordained
        deacon, but i would set the altar for the priest and then serve the
        chalice).

        but i have to admit to a peccadillo - perhaps from growing up in a 1928 bcp
        environment - i prefer waiting the extra time for my priest to bring me
        communion rather than taking advantage of lay eucharistic ministers (LEM-B
        in my vocabulary).

        one reason i prefer it is the spiritual discussions we have and talks about
        church politics, of course.

        am i being unreasonable in refusing eucharist from lay visitors? i'm sure i
        would have no problem if i were the one doing the delivering (tho now that i
        think of it i never volunteered for the training).

        thoughts?

        second, those of you delivering communion (or not) who have prayer needs
        please feel free to contact me.

        soli deo gloria!




        sharon, osb

        "disability is not the same as inability!"
      • Janet Roth
        Sharon, sharon, Lots of lay people who deliver Eucharist would be more than pleased to have spirited discussions on either spiritual matters or church
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 25, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Sharon, sharon,
          Lots of lay people who deliver Eucharist would be more than pleased
          to have spirited discussions on either spiritual matters or church
          politics in the course of their visits.
          janet
          On Jul 25, 2006, at 9:58 AM, sharon brown wrote:

          > one reason i prefer it is the spiritual discussions we have and talks
          > about
          > church politics, of course.
        • Jon Christenson
          One s thoughts and feelings are complex and preferences can be important, especially in regards to our spiritual growth. I am never offended when a parishoner
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 25, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            One's thoughts and feelings are complex and preferences can be important,
            especially in regards to our spiritual growth.

            I am never offended when a parishoner requests home communions from the
            pastor instead of the lay visitors. (None of my lay visitors are offended
            either.) I see no problem of simply communicating with your parish that you
            would prefer to receive Holy Communion from the priest. It seems like a
            reasonable and sane request to me.



            Jon +

            Pr. Jon Christenson, STS
            Redeemer Kirche
            Col. Baker's Field, People's Republic of California
            www.rlcbakersfield.org

            "If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall
            by the hands of the clergy."
            Marquis de Lafayette





            >From: "sharon brown" <sargemb@...>
            >Reply-To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
            >To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: [liturgy-l] delivering communion
            >Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:58:02 -0400
            >
            >
            >i know i usually lurk, but a recent post raised a question in me -
            >
            >as most of you know i am an episcopal benedictine solitary - unfortunatly
            >my
            >disability is making it more and more difficult to attend corporate
            >worship.
            >
            >i served as an subdeacon for years (is that the right term - not an
            >ordained
            >deacon, but i would set the altar for the priest and then serve the
            >chalice).
            >
            >but i have to admit to a peccadillo - perhaps from growing up in a 1928 bcp
            >environment - i prefer waiting the extra time for my priest to bring me
            >communion rather than taking advantage of lay eucharistic ministers (LEM-B
            >in my vocabulary).
            >
            >one reason i prefer it is the spiritual discussions we have and talks about
            >church politics, of course.
            >
            >am i being unreasonable in refusing eucharist from lay visitors? i'm sure i
            >would have no problem if i were the one doing the delivering (tho now that
            >i
            >think of it i never volunteered for the training).
            >
            >thoughts?
            >
            >second, those of you delivering communion (or not) who have prayer needs
            >please feel free to contact me.
            >
            >soli deo gloria!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >sharon, osb
            >
            >"disability is not the same as inability!"
            >
            >
          • John Dornheim
            In some parishes, lay Eucharistic ministers are used to alleviate some responsibilty from the clergy. Others do it in reflection of their understanding of the
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 25, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              In some parishes, lay Eucharistic ministers are used to alleviate some
              responsibilty from the clergy. Others do it in reflection of their
              understanding of the "priesthood of all believers." When one come to
              mass, it is not uncommon to recieve the elements from laypeople, no? I
              think that a cleric should make a visit periodically, at least
              quarterly, unless there is some crisis. If you are willing to wait, why
              not. Some of us encourage weekly reception and this is not always
              possible for the unwillingly absent.
              John Dornheim
              ps Now I remember who Sharon is...
              On Jul 25, 2006, at 12:58 PM, sharon brown wrote:

              >
              > i know i usually lurk, but a recent post raised a question in me -
              >
              > as most of you know i am an episcopal benedictine solitary -
              > unfortunatly my
              > disability is making it more and more difficult to attend corporate
              > worship.
              >
              > i served as an subdeacon for years (is that the right term - not an
              > ordained
              > deacon, but i would set the altar for the priest and then serve the
              > chalice).
              >
              > but i have to admit to a peccadillo - perhaps from growing up in a
              > 1928 bcp
              > environment - i prefer waiting the extra time for my priest to bring me
              > communion rather than taking advantage of lay eucharistic ministers
              > (LEM-B
              > in my vocabulary).
              >
              > one reason i prefer it is the spiritual discussions we have and talks
              > about
              > church politics, of course.
              >
              > am i being unreasonable in refusing eucharist from lay visitors? i'm
              > sure i
              > would have no problem if i were the one doing the delivering (tho now
              > that i
              > think of it i never volunteered for the training).
              >
              > thoughts?
              >
              > second, those of you delivering communion (or not) who have prayer
              > needs
              > please feel free to contact me.
              >
              > soli deo gloria!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > sharon, osb
              >
              > "disability is not the same as inability!"
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To write to the
              > owners/moderators, please send an email to:
              > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              Holy Spirit giving life to all life,
              moving all creatures,
              root of all things,
              washing them clean,
              wiping out their mistakes,
              healing their wounds,
              you are our true life,
              luminous,
              wonderful,
              awakening the heart from its ancient sleep.

              Hildegard Von Bingen


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • sharon brown
              jon wrote: I see no problem of simply communicating with your parish that you would prefer to receive Holy Communion from the priest. It seems like a
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 25, 2006
              • 0 Attachment
                jon wrote:
                I see no problem of simply communicating with your parish that you would
                prefer to receive Holy Communion from the priest. It seems like a reasonable
                and sane request to me.

                thanks jon for assuaging my guilt ;)

                i did indeed talk to my parish priest and he comes when he can, usually once
                a month or so.

                soli deo gloria!




                sharon
                a.k.a.
                sarge


                "disability is not the same as inability!"
              • James Morgan
                In churches where confession and absolution by the clergy is recommended, it would probably be inapproprate for lay ministers to routinely bring communion to
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 25, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  In churches where confession and absolution by the clergy is recommended, it
                  would probably be inapproprate for 'lay ministers' to routinely bring
                  communion to people.
                  I would myself (as an Orthodox Christian) much prefer that my priest bring
                  the sacrament to me so that i could confess before receiving.

                  Of course we don't have 'lay ministers who can give communion in my church
                  anyway....

                  Rdr. James
                  Olympia, WA

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of sharon brown
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:58 AM
                  To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [liturgy-l] delivering communion

                  i know i usually lurk, but a recent post raised a question in me -

                  as most of you know i am an episcopal benedictine solitary - unfortunatly my

                  disability is making it more and more difficult to attend corporate worship.

                  i served as an subdeacon for years (is that the right term - not an ordained

                  deacon, but i would set the altar for the priest and then serve the
                  chalice).

                  but i have to admit to a peccadillo - perhaps from growing up in a 1928 bcp
                  environment - i prefer waiting the extra time for my priest to bring me
                  communion rather than taking advantage of lay eucharistic ministers (LEM-B
                  in my vocabulary).

                  one reason i prefer it is the spiritual discussions we have and talks about
                  church politics, of course.

                  am i being unreasonable in refusing eucharist from lay visitors? i'm sure i
                  would have no problem if i were the one doing the delivering (tho now that i

                  think of it i never volunteered for the training).

                  thoughts?

                  second, those of you delivering communion (or not) who have prayer needs
                  please feel free to contact me.

                  soli deo gloria!
                • John Dornheim
                  The Lutheran Book of Worship has an absolution formula which might be pronounced by the lay minister. John Dornheim ... Holy Spirit giving life to all life,
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 26, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The Lutheran Book of Worship has an absolution formula which might be
                    pronounced by the lay minister.
                    John Dornheim
                    On Jul 26, 2006, at 2:02 AM, James Morgan wrote:

                    > In churches where confession and absolution by the clergy is
                    > recommended, it
                    > would probably be inapproprate for 'lay ministers' to routinely bring
                    > communion to people.
                    > I would myself (as an Orthodox Christian) much prefer that my priest
                    > bring
                    > the sacrament to me so that i could confess before receiving.
                    >
                    > Of course we don't have 'lay ministers who can give communion in my
                    > church
                    > anyway....
                    >
                    > Rdr. James
                    > Olympia, WA
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > Behalf
                    > Of sharon brown
                    > Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:58 AM
                    > To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [liturgy-l] delivering communion
                    >
                    > i know i usually lurk, but a recent post raised a question in me -
                    >
                    > as most of you know i am an episcopal benedictine solitary -
                    > unfortunatly my
                    >
                    > disability is making it more and more difficult to attend corporate
                    > worship.
                    >
                    > i served as an subdeacon for years (is that the right term - not an
                    > ordained
                    >
                    > deacon, but i would set the altar for the priest and then serve the
                    > chalice).
                    >
                    > but i have to admit to a peccadillo - perhaps from growing up in a
                    > 1928 bcp
                    > environment - i prefer waiting the extra time for my priest to bring me
                    > communion rather than taking advantage of lay eucharistic ministers
                    > (LEM-B
                    > in my vocabulary).
                    >
                    > one reason i prefer it is the spiritual discussions we have and talks
                    > about
                    > church politics, of course.
                    >
                    > am i being unreasonable in refusing eucharist from lay visitors? i'm
                    > sure i
                    > would have no problem if i were the one doing the delivering (tho now
                    > that i
                    >
                    > think of it i never volunteered for the training).
                    >
                    > thoughts?
                    >
                    > second, those of you delivering communion (or not) who have prayer
                    > needs
                    > please feel free to contact me.
                    >
                    > soli deo gloria!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To write to the
                    > owners/moderators, please send an email to:
                    > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    Holy Spirit giving life to all life,
                    moving all creatures,
                    root of all things,
                    washing them clean,
                    wiping out their mistakes,
                    healing their wounds,
                    you are our true life,
                    luminous,
                    wonderful,
                    awakening the heart from its ancient sleep.

                    Hildegard Von Bingen


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Lewis H Whitaker
                    I served as a LEM while in the Episcopal Church. It was always made quite clear that a visit by a lay minister was not a substitute for a visit by a member of
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 26, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I served as a LEM while in the Episcopal Church. It was always made quite clear that a visit by a lay minister was not a substitute for a visit by a member of the clergy, but rather an extension of the fellowship of Christ's table and an inclusion in the whole communion of Christ's gathered body.

                      After the post communion prayer the designated lay ministers were called forward, given communion kits, then blessed and sent forth with an explicit prayer that "those to whom they go" know that they are loved and numbered among those there in the church.

                      All of the sick members of the church who had requested it received a visit each week from a lay eucharistic minister, and a visit from a member of the clergy monthly. So it wasn't a situation of communion for the sick being cast off onto the lay members who had been trained to make visits, but rather a practical solution to "getting everyone seen" (it was a large parish).

                      The clergy were always available for the at least monthly visits, or as needed by those who were homebound. It seemed to work out well in this situation.

                      Lew

                      -----Original Message-----
                      >From: James Morgan <rdrjames@...>
                      >Sent: Jul 26, 2006 12:02 AM
                      >To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] delivering communion
                      >
                      >In churches where confession and absolution by the clergy is recommended, it
                      >would probably be inapproprate for 'lay ministers' to routinely bring
                      >communion to people.
                      >I would myself (as an Orthodox Christian) much prefer that my priest bring
                      >the sacrament to me so that i could confess before receiving.
                      >
                      >Of course we don't have 'lay ministers who can give communion in my church
                      >anyway....
                      >
                      >Rdr. James
                      >Olympia, WA
                      >
                      >-----Original Message-----
                      >From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      >Of sharon brown
                      >Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2006 9:58 AM
                      >To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                      >Subject: [liturgy-l] delivering communion
                      >
                      >i know i usually lurk, but a recent post raised a question in me -
                      >
                      >as most of you know i am an episcopal benedictine solitary - unfortunatly my
                      >
                      >disability is making it more and more difficult to attend corporate worship.
                      >
                      >i served as an subdeacon for years (is that the right term - not an ordained
                      >
                      >deacon, but i would set the altar for the priest and then serve the
                      >chalice).
                      >
                      >but i have to admit to a peccadillo - perhaps from growing up in a 1928 bcp
                      >environment - i prefer waiting the extra time for my priest to bring me
                      >communion rather than taking advantage of lay eucharistic ministers (LEM-B
                      >in my vocabulary).
                      >
                      >one reason i prefer it is the spiritual discussions we have and talks about
                      >church politics, of course.
                      >
                      >am i being unreasonable in refusing eucharist from lay visitors? i'm sure i
                      >would have no problem if i were the one doing the delivering (tho now that i
                      >
                      >think of it i never volunteered for the training).
                      >
                      >thoughts?
                      >
                      >second, those of you delivering communion (or not) who have prayer needs
                      >please feel free to contact me.
                      >
                      >soli deo gloria!
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • James
                      John, ... In the Book of Common Prayer, lay persons and deacons, in addition to priests, can hear Confessions. The priest can pronounce an absolution, but a
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 26, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        John,

                        > The Lutheran Book of Worship has an absolution formula which might
                        > be pronounced by the lay minister.

                        In the Book of Common Prayer, lay persons and deacons, in addition to
                        priests, can hear Confessions. The priest can pronounce an
                        absolution, but a lay person or deacon can only say a declaration of
                        forgiveness.

                        James
                      • John Dornheim
                        And that s the same in the LBW. John Dornheim ... Holy Spirit giving life to all life, moving all creatures, root of all things, washing them clean, wiping out
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 26, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          And that's the same in the LBW.
                          John Dornheim
                          On Jul 26, 2006, at 10:58 PM, James wrote:

                          > John,
                          >
                          >> The Lutheran Book of Worship has an absolution formula which might
                          >> be pronounced by the lay minister.
                          >
                          > In the Book of Common Prayer, lay persons and deacons, in addition to
                          > priests, can hear Confessions. The priest can pronounce an
                          > absolution, but a lay person or deacon can only say a declaration of
                          > forgiveness.
                          >
                          > James
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at
                          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To write to the
                          > owners/moderators, please send an email to:
                          > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          Holy Spirit giving life to all life,
                          moving all creatures,
                          root of all things,
                          washing them clean,
                          wiping out their mistakes,
                          healing their wounds,
                          you are our true life,
                          luminous,
                          wonderful,
                          awakening the heart from its ancient sleep.

                          Hildegard Von Bingen


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Ormonde Plater
                          ... priests, can hear Confessions. The priest can pronounce an absolution, but a lay person or deacon can only say a declaration of forgiveness.
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 27, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > In the Book of Common Prayer, lay persons and deacons, in addition to
                            priests, can hear Confessions. The priest can pronounce an
                            absolution, but a lay person or deacon can only say a declaration of
                            forgiveness. <

                            In 35 years as a deacon, I have been careful never to use this provision, to avoid confusion over the nature of sacramental confession. I wonder whether it also confuses the different forms of ministry. Has anyone else, lay or deacon, ever used it?

                            Ormonde Plater
                            oplater@...


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Michael Joe Thannisch
                            I used it when I was a lay person. In the situation, it was necesary. We only had a priest once a year (if we were lucky). I think there are many situations
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 27, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I used it when I was a lay person. In the situation, it was necesary. We
                              only had a priest once a year (if we were lucky). I think there are many
                              situations where it is necesary, and where we should return to the idea of
                              an anachamra (soul friend) for confession and accountability.

                              Shalom b'Yeshua haMoshiach,
                              +Michael Joe Thannisch
                              mjthan@...
                              http://www.freewebs.com/childrenofabraham/
                              http://www.christiansynod.org/index.htm
                              281-303-3671

                              _____

                              From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Ormonde Plater
                              Sent: 27 July 2006 06:18
                              To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Re: delivering communion



                              > In the Book of Common Prayer, lay persons and deacons, in addition to
                              priests, can hear Confessions. The priest can pronounce an
                              absolution, but a lay person or deacon can only say a declaration of
                              forgiveness. <

                              In 35 years as a deacon, I have been careful never to use this provision, to
                              avoid confusion over the nature of sacramental confession. I wonder whether
                              it also confuses the different forms of ministry. Has anyone else, lay or
                              deacon, ever used it?

                              Ormonde Plater
                              oplater@cox. <mailto:oplater%40cox.net> net

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • RIRevShev@aol.com
                              In a message dated 7/27/2006 9:38:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mjthan@quik.com writes: we should return to the idea of an anachamra (soul friend) for
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 27, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                In a message dated 7/27/2006 9:38:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                mjthan@... writes:
                                we should return to the idea of
                                an anachamra (soul friend) for confession and accountability.

                                Could you say a little more about "anachamra" -- I have never heard the word
                                before. What is the derivation?

                                Linda

                                "Semper Gumby!" ("Always Flexible!")
                                (The Rev.) Linda A. Shevlin
                                6 Ash Street
                                Cumberland, RI 02864
                                Cellular Phone: 401-529-4584
                                RIRevShev@...


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Michael Joe Thannisch
                                Dear Linda, Anamchara, (sorry I mispelled it the first time) is a Celtic Word which roughly translates as soul friend. If you are familiar with St. Columile
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 27, 2006
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Dear Linda,

                                  Anamchara, (sorry I mispelled it the first time) is a Celtic Word which
                                  roughly translates as soul friend. If you are familiar with St. Columile
                                  (Columbo), after he started a war, it was his Anamchara who assigned him the
                                  penance to bring as many people into Christ's kingdom as those who lost
                                  their lives in a war he was responsable for over a copywrite issue.
                                  Basically an Anamchara was a confessor (not necesarily ordained) and a
                                  Spiritual Advisor. Columil's Anamchara was a lay person, as many were. In
                                  the Celtic tradition you were usually your Anamchara's Anamchara. I hope
                                  this helps.

                                  Shalom b'Yeshua haMoshiach,
                                  +Michael Joe Thannisch
                                  mjthan@...
                                  http://www.freewebs.com/childrenofabraham/
                                  http://www.christiansynod.org/index.htm
                                  281-303-3671

                                  _____

                                  From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                  Of RIRevShev@...
                                  Sent: 27 July 2006 20:50
                                  To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Re: delivering communion



                                  In a message dated 7/27/2006 9:38:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
                                  mjthan@quik. <mailto:mjthan%40quik.com> com writes:
                                  we should return to the idea of
                                  an anachamra (soul friend) for confession and accountability.

                                  Could you say a little more about "anachamra" -- I have never heard the word

                                  before. What is the derivation?

                                  Linda

                                  "Semper Gumby!" ("Always Flexible!")
                                  (The Rev.) Linda A. Shevlin
                                  6 Ash Street
                                  Cumberland, RI 02864
                                  Cellular Phone: 401-529-4584
                                  RIRevShev@aol. <mailto:RIRevShev%40aol.com> com

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • emrys@globe.net.nz
                                  ... It s interesting (here s my daily trivia :-) that the word anamchara is not fundamentally an Irish word but it is Latin: animae carus ! Based on the
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 27, 2006
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > Anamchara, (sorry I mispelled it the first time) is a Celtic Word
                                    > which roughly translates as soul friend.


                                    It's interesting (here's my daily trivia :-) that the word "anamchara" is
                                    not fundamentally an Irish word but it is Latin: "animae carus" !


                                    Based on the many surviving Monastic Rules the Irish conceived of the
                                    anamchara as a spiritual director/spiritual elder to whom one confessed all
                                    one's thoughts and dispositions. If your spiritual elder-anamchara were not
                                    a priest then he sent you to one for absolution.

                                    "The Celtic spiritual fathers (anamchara in Irish, and periglour in Welsh)
                                    helped to heal the interior wounds of their spiritual children; they gave
                                    them strength and courage for further spiritual struggles."

                                    And now for the serious stuff...

                                    This article "Celtic Christian Spirituality" is on the Net at
                                    http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/celtic.aspx


                                    Spiritual Guidance.

                                    "In the Christian monastic tradition, the institution of spiritual Fathers
                                    and Elders existed from the earliest times. There were a number of
                                    God-bearing Elders among the Egyptian Desert Fathers, and such holy
                                    spiritual Elders can be found throughout the history of the Orthodox Church
                                    down to the present day. Celtic monasticism was also adorned by such holy
                                    spiritual guides, such as St. Columba of Iona. In the Celtic Church there
                                    existed the very important institution of spiritual Fathers, who in Ireland
                                    were called anamchara ("soul-friends," anamcara, from the Latin animae
                                    carus); in Welsh, periglour. Each monk had his spiritual guide, anamchara,
                                    to whom he was to open his heart, confess his thoughts, and reveal his
                                    conscience (manifestatio conscientiae). An ancient Irish saying comments
                                    that a person without a soul-friend is like a body without a head.

                                    "Through his writings, St. John Cassian was a teacher of spiritual life in
                                    the British Isles. He also instructs his readers concerning the benefits of
                                    revealing one's thoughts to the Fathers, though not indiscriminately. (One
                                    should, he says, consult spiritual Elders who have spiritual discernment
                                    [diakrisis].)

                                    "In the Life of St. David of Wales we find additional evidence of the
                                    practice of the confession of thoughts. In §28, it is recorded that the
                                    monks in St. David's monastery revealed their thoughts to the spiritual
                                    Father.


                                    Fr Ambrose
                                  • James O'Regan
                                    Fr Ambrose wrote ... I ve been reading Sr Fidelma mysteries of late, written by Peter Tremayne (aka PB Ellis), who is a Celtic scholar or a scholar re Celts.
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 28, 2006
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Fr Ambrose wrote

                                      > It's interesting (here's my daily trivia :-) that the word "anamchara"
                                      > is not fundamentally an Irish word but it is Latin: "animae carus" !

                                      I've been reading Sr Fidelma mysteries of late, written by Peter Tremayne
                                      (aka PB Ellis), who is a Celtic scholar or a scholar re Celts. In his prefaces,
                                      he has quite a bit about 8th century Celtic Christianity and their more
                                      ancient legal system.

                                      One sees fairly well developed pictures of "soul friends" therein. I'm also
                                      intrigued to see many Irish words that when parsed by phonics appear to
                                      be Latin. I suspect that even though the Romans never made it to Ireland
                                      as a conquering force, some Roman culture must have arrived.

                                      The Fidelma mysteries are provocative for an understanding, easily
                                      accessible, of pre-Roman Irish Christianity and spirituality, and even, in
                                      cases, liturgy.

                                      Cf: http://www.sisterfidelma.com/

                                      James O'Regan
                                      http://www.jamesoregan.com
                                      tel 613-824-4706
                                    • Michael Joe Thannisch
                                      It is truly amazing where Latin turns up. After many years of pursuing false leads relating to my last name, Thannisch, which looks very German, we find out
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jul 28, 2006
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        It is truly amazing where Latin turns up. After many years of pursuing
                                        false leads relating to my last name, Thannisch, which looks very German, we
                                        find out that it derives from the Latin Tanis, which roughly rendered into
                                        English, means, "by the badger hole." But of course we must remember that
                                        Roman Brittain was very Roman, and there was quite a bit of communication
                                        between the two islands.

                                        Shalom b'Yeshua haMoshiach,
                                        +Michael Joe Thannisch
                                        mjthan@...
                                        http://www.freewebs.com/childrenofabraham/
                                        http://www.christiansynod.org/index.htm
                                        281-303-3671

                                        _____

                                        From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                        Of James O'Regan
                                        Sent: 28 July 2006 08:52
                                        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Irish Christianity [wasRe: [liturgy-l] Re: delivering communion]



                                        Fr Ambrose wrote

                                        > It's interesting (here's my daily trivia :-) that the word "anamchara"
                                        > is not fundamentally an Irish word but it is Latin: "animae carus" !

                                        I've been reading Sr Fidelma mysteries of late, written by Peter Tremayne
                                        (aka PB Ellis), who is a Celtic scholar or a scholar re Celts. In his
                                        prefaces,
                                        he has quite a bit about 8th century Celtic Christianity and their more
                                        ancient legal system.

                                        One sees fairly well developed pictures of "soul friends" therein. I'm also
                                        intrigued to see many Irish words that when parsed by phonics appear to
                                        be Latin. I suspect that even though the Romans never made it to Ireland
                                        as a conquering force, some Roman culture must have arrived.

                                        The Fidelma mysteries are provocative for an understanding, easily
                                        accessible, of pre-Roman Irish Christianity and spirituality, and even, in
                                        cases, liturgy.

                                        Cf: http://www.sisterfi <http://www.sisterfidelma.com/> delma.com/

                                        James O'Regan
                                        http://www.jamesore <http://www.jamesoregan.com> gan.com
                                        tel 613-824-4706






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Atlanta
                                        ... Would this be the same as soul mate ? Atlanta, my name in the world [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          > Re: delivering communion
                                          > Posted by: "emrys@..." emrys@...   maincin
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > This article "Celtic Christian Spirituality" is on the Net at
                                          > http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/celtic.aspx
                                          >
                                          > Spiritual Guidance.
                                          >
                                          > "In the Christian monastic tradition, the institution of spiritual
                                          > Fathers
                                          > and Elders existed from the earliest times. There were a number of
                                          > God-bearing Elders among the Egyptian Desert Fathers, and such holy
                                          > spiritual Elders can be found throughout the history of the Orthodox
                                          > Church
                                          > down to the present day. Celtic monasticism was also adorned by such
                                          > holy
                                          > spiritual guides, such as St. Columba of Iona. In the Celtic Church
                                          > there
                                          > existed the very important institution of spiritual Fathers, who in
                                          > Ireland
                                          > were called anamchara ("soul-friends," anamcara, from the Latin animae
                                          > carus); in Welsh, periglour. Each monk had his spiritual guide,
                                          > anamchara,
                                          > to whom he was to open his heart, confess his thoughts, and reveal his
                                          > conscience (manifestatio conscientiae). An ancient Irish saying
                                          > comments
                                          > that a person without a soul-friend is like a body without a head.
                                          Would this be the same as "soul mate"?
                                          Atlanta, my name in the world


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Kevin Riley
                                          A soul friend [anam chara] is a spiritual advisor/mentor, and is usually quite different to a soul mate. I think combining the two would lead to many
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            A soul friend [anam chara] is a spiritual advisor/mentor, and is usually
                                            quite different to a soul mate. I think combining the two would lead to
                                            many complications - of which this life already has sufficient :) .

                                            Kevin Riley

                                            -------Original Message-------

                                            From: Atlanta
                                            Date: 08/03/06 03:02:22

                                            > Re: delivering communion
                                            > Posted by: "emrys@..." emrys@... maincin
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > This article "Celtic Christian Spirituality" is on the Net at
                                            > http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/celtic.aspx
                                            >
                                            > Spiritual Guidance.
                                            >
                                            > "In the Christian monastic tradition, the institution of spiritual
                                            > Fathers
                                            > and Elders existed from the earliest times. There were a number of
                                            > God-bearing Elders among the Egyptian Desert Fathers, and such holy
                                            > spiritual Elders can be found throughout the history of the Orthodox
                                            > Church
                                            > down to the present day. Celtic monasticism was also adorned by such
                                            > holy
                                            > spiritual guides, such as St. Columba of Iona. In the Celtic Church
                                            > there
                                            > existed the very important institution of spiritual Fathers, who in
                                            > Ireland
                                            > were called anamchara ("soul-friends," anamcara, from the Latin animae
                                            > carus); in Welsh, periglour. Each monk had his spiritual guide,
                                            > anamchara,
                                            > to whom he was to open his heart, confess his thoughts, and reveal his
                                            > conscience (manifestatio conscientiae). An ancient Irish saying
                                            > comments
                                            > that a person without a soul-friend is like a body without a head.
                                            Would this be the same as "soul mate"?
                                            Atlanta, my name in the world
                                          • olympiada2006
                                            ... usually ... I think you are right about that combining the two would lead to many complications. Any known instances of that? Thanks, Atlanta
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Aug 2, 2006
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Riley" <klriley@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > A soul friend [anam chara] is a spiritual advisor/mentor, and is
                                              usually
                                              > quite different to a soul mate. I think combining the two would lead to
                                              > many complications - of which this life already has sufficient :) .
                                              >
                                              > Kevin Riley
                                              >
                                              I think you are right about that combining the two would lead to many
                                              complications. Any known instances of that?
                                              Thanks,
                                              Atlanta
                                            • Gregory Holmes Singleton
                                              I apologize to the listowners for posting
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Aug 3, 2006
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                <<I think you are right about that combining the two would
                                                lead to many
                                                complications. Any known instances of that?>>



                                                I apologize to the listowners for posting this, but I
                                                sincerely hope that any responses to the above question will
                                                take place off the list.



                                                I hope this for two reasons:



                                                1) It does take us somewhat far off-topic for a list
                                                devoted primarily to a discussion of public worship; and

                                                2) Any responses beyond Abelard and Heloise are likely to
                                                take us in the direction of gossip. Actually, given the
                                                iffy nature of some of the evidence on that bit of salacious
                                                history, any discussion of that famous 12th century romance
                                                might also qualify as gossip.



                                                Having just written item number 2, I will now live in fear
                                                that someone will now post the request, "Tell me more about
                                                Abelard and Heloise." :-)



                                                My answer, of course, is simply enter the names into Google,
                                                or other search engine of one's choice. :-):-)



                                                Greg



                                                Gregory Holmes Singleton, Ph.D.
                                                Professor of History, Emeritus
                                                Resident Old Curmudgeon
                                                Northeastern Illinois University
                                                <http://www.neiu.edu/~ghsingle/>
                                                http://www.neiu.edu/~ghsingle/





                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • John Dornheim
                                                Greg, thanks for your post. As one of the moderators, I am trying to deal with the situation. I trust it won t happen again. Well, more than once. John
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Aug 3, 2006
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Greg, thanks for your post. As one of the moderators, I am trying to
                                                  deal with the situation. I trust it won't happen again. Well, more than
                                                  once.
                                                  John Dornheim
                                                  On Aug 3, 2006, at 10:01 AM, Gregory Holmes Singleton wrote:

                                                  > <<I think you are right about that combining the two would
                                                  > lead to many
                                                  > complications. Any known instances of that?>>
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > I apologize to the listowners for posting this, but I
                                                  > sincerely hope that any responses to the above question will
                                                  > take place off the list.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > I hope this for two reasons:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > 1) It does take us somewhat far off-topic for a list
                                                  > devoted primarily to a discussion of public worship; and
                                                  >
                                                  > 2) Any responses beyond Abelard and Heloise are likely to
                                                  > take us in the direction of gossip. Actually, given the
                                                  > iffy nature of some of the evidence on that bit of salacious
                                                  > history, any discussion of that famous 12th century romance
                                                  > might also qualify as gossip.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Having just written item number 2, I will now live in fear
                                                  > that someone will now post the request, "Tell me more about
                                                  > Abelard and Heloise." :-)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > My answer, of course, is simply enter the names into Google,
                                                  > or other search engine of one's choice. :-):-)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Greg
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Gregory Holmes Singleton, Ph.D.
                                                  > Professor of History, Emeritus
                                                  > Resident Old Curmudgeon
                                                  > Northeastern Illinois University
                                                  > <http://www.neiu.edu/~ghsingle/>
                                                  > http://www.neiu.edu/~ghsingle/
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at
                                                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To write to the
                                                  > owners/moderators, please send an email to:
                                                  > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  Holy Spirit giving life to all life,
                                                  moving all creatures,
                                                  root of all things,
                                                  washing them clean,
                                                  wiping out their mistakes,
                                                  healing their wounds,
                                                  you are our true life,
                                                  luminous,
                                                  wonderful,
                                                  awakening the heart from its ancient sleep.

                                                  Hildegard Von Bingen


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.