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RE: [liturgy-l] concelebration core

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  • Shawn Shafer
    Walt wrote: Given a situation where there are five priests in the community... one vested and functioning as assisting minister... one sitting in the pews...
    Message 1 of 6 , May 1, 2006
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      Walt wrote: "Given a situation where there are five priests in the
      community... one vested and functioning as assisting minister... one sitting
      in the pews... [snip] ...so I don't think he is "doing" anything as
      concelebrant that the pew schlump or organist aren't doing."

      In fact, I would further posit that the participation of non-celebrating
      ordained clergy in choir and especially in the midst of the laity adds quite
      a bit to the dimension of the celebration. I think seeing our bishops,
      priests and deacons (in collar, or not) worshipping as one of the 'people'
      reinforces the idea of a royal priesthood in which we all share. The idea
      that because someone is ordained into a ministry means that they must always
      act in that role at mass is repugnant. We all have our time and places to
      serve in various ways. At those other times where we are not leading or
      celebrating, our faith and piety are evidenced (among other things) by our
      choosing to worship the one true God with his chosen ones. Priests that are
      never at mass except as presider/celebrant miss out on as much as their
      flock. To see your bishop/priest/etc. singing God's praises a few pews ahead
      of you because (s)he chooses to be there is as much a lesson in Christian
      service and faith as any sermon on the matter. It is then that we can
      realize the reason, or at least a major one, our ordained are in their
      positions is that they enjoy and look forward to being in the house of the
      Lord. That extra dimension of the personal reasons of why a person is in
      their position and of their own spiritual needs is typically lost when they
      are not seen in other roles and positions. We are all humans and we are all
      in need of God. Not seeing those dimensions and not participating as one of
      the faithful is what really leads to clericalism. That is where the
      separation takes place and is why I hesitate a hearty endorsement of
      concelebration. In my experience, it either limits the number of times
      priests will be at mass as there will be the expectation of vested
      participation, or unnecessarily involves one more clergy in the mass. If the
      required sacred ministers and the attendant servers are present, there seems
      to me little reason for an extra person (or more) in stole (and chasuble).

      Now, concelebration can and does work. I'll even say it has a valuable place
      in the church. However, it should never be so common as to detract from our
      clergy participating in other ways.

      ---
      Shawn Shafer
      Boise, Idaho
    • dlewisaao@aol.com
      In a message dated 5/1/2006 8:26:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, shawnshafer@hotmail.com writes: The idea that because someone is ordained into a ministry
      Message 2 of 6 , May 1, 2006
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        In a message dated 5/1/2006 8:26:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
        shawnshafer@... writes:

        The idea
        that because someone is ordained into a ministry means that they must always
        act in that role at mass is repugnant. We all have our time and places to
        serve in various ways. At those other times where we are not leading or
        celebrating, our faith and piety are evidenced (among other things) by our
        choosing to worship the one true God with his chosen ones.


        I would expand this construct to include acolytes. My rector tells of a
        parish where he once had been where those in the acolytes' guild who were not
        serving on a particular Sunday were given a particular place to sit near the
        sanctuary. Let's just say that the current policy is that those who are not
        serving as acolytes - and there is a policy that nobody may be scheduled for
        all Sundays in a given month - are to sit in the pews.

        And yes, this policy is designed to renew/increase a sense of "choosing to
        worship the one true God with his chosen ones" as contrasted with concentrating
        on the intracacies of liturgy evey Sunday.

        David Lewis



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • R Drake
        True for all lay (as well as clerical) ministers, I think. I know that I get, and I ve been told that I give, on the relatively rare occasions when I sit in
        Message 3 of 6 , May 5, 2006
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          True for all lay (as well as clerical) ministers, I think.
          I know that I get, and I've been told that I give, on the
          relatively rare occasions when I sit in the main portion of
          our worship space rather than in the choir. Singing is
          what I bring to worship as an offering, but I always need
          to be reminded that corporate worship is far more important
          than what I bring to it on any given day (especially if I'm
          starting to get frantic about the "liturgical intricacies).

          Robin Drake

          --- dlewisaao@... wrote:

          >
          > In a message dated 5/1/2006 8:26:13 P.M. Eastern Standard
          > Time,
          > shawnshafer@... writes:
          >
          > The idea
          > that because someone is ordained into a ministry means
          > that they must always
          > act in that role at mass is repugnant. We all have our
          > time and places to
          > serve in various ways. At those other times where we are
          > not leading or
          > celebrating, our faith and piety are evidenced (among
          > other things) by our
          > choosing to worship the one true God with his chosen
          > ones.
          >
          and David Lewis replied in part:
          >
          > And yes, this policy is designed to renew/increase a
          > sense of "choosing to
          > worship the one true God with his chosen ones" as
          > contrasted with concentrating
          > on the intracacies of liturgy evey Sunday.


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