Re: [liturgy-l] Re: Holy Spirit and Gender
- jonwest@... wrote:
>As Jan Hofland made fairly clear in his post, we only know the
> Ahh yes Montanists, the model for women's ordination and the Church, not!
> The Montanists did not believe that sins were forgiven after Baptism--hmm I
> wonder if Constantine knew them?
Montanists through the writings of their opponents. I had a professor in
College who set out to do his Chuch History doctoral thesis on
Montanism, but ended up doing it on the opposition to Montanism because
there are absolutely no surviving writings of the Montanists.
Therefore any confident assertion about their beliefs is about as
reliable as holding an opinion on the beliefs of Jesus based solely on
the writings of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.
Peace and hope,
Pastor, South Yarra Community Baptist Church
- Blessed be God.
"Jan J.H.Hofland" wrote:
>Because I am so busy I am content to go whichever way people decide, but
> Greetings to all,
> With all due respect, I'm (partly) to blame for a theological discussion on
> our _liturgy_ list. I tried to indicate that my interest is (partly)
> liturgical. I am sympathic ( no more, no less) toward referring to the Holy
> Spirit as "She" which, ofcourse, has consequences as to long
> standing/traditional liturgical texts as well as the wording of prayers,
> songs and the message.
> The responses have been learned and well meant, but nevertheless largely
> outside of the liturgical scope of our list or without a thought toward
> liturgical consequences for the one theological stand or the other. I
> hereby kindly suggest that we terminate this discussion, unless we are able
> to relate it to the liturgy of the church.
> Gee, I liked the discussion, but as co-owner of the list I've got to draw
> the line somewhere :-).
I too enjoy that discussion whenever it comes up, and I do not think it
is in the least unrelated to liturgy. We're talking, after all, about
the proper language for hymnography and doxology, and also eventually
about the ordination or not of women. So I will engage the topic as best
I can, or not, depending on the decision, but I would be happy to
continue, tongue hanging out as I sprint to keep up sometimes.