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Re: [liturgy-l] Transubstantiation & Physics

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  • Douglas Cowling
    ... Perhaps the most interesting take on transubstantion was a recent biography of Galileo which suggested that the real issue of conflict between the
    Message 1 of 136 , Dec 4, 2005
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      On 12/4/05 5:15 PM, "Frank Senn" <fcsenn@...> wrote:

      > Transubstantiation is not really so intractable for those who realize that
      > it was a way of defending the real presence of Christ in the sacrament.

      Perhaps the most interesting take on transubstantion was a recent biography
      of Galileo which suggested that the real issue of conflict between the
      astronomer and theologians was not heliocentrism but rather his speculations
      on atomism. If there was a molecular structure to matter, then the
      scholastic Aristotelian constructs of "matter" and "substance" ceased to
      have scientific currency. That meant that the terms used to express the
      doctrine of transubstantiation were problematic. To some that was an attack
      on the doctrine itself. Certainly the post-Vatican II emphasis on the
      Paschal Mystery of the sacrament -- itself an Eastern approach -- is a way
      avoiding the rather sterile scientifism of the 16th and 17th century
      centuries. The pope's recent intervention at the Synod on the Eucharist
      certainly enjoined an appreciation of the sacrament's deep mystery on those
      who would restrict the profoundity of Christ's presence.


      Doug Cowling
      Director of Music & Liturgical Arts
      Church of the Messiah, Toronto
    • James Morgan
      I had forgotten that! Trinity Episcopal Church in Newport, RI (est. in the 1700s) is a case in point. They have the actual pew St. George Washington sat in
      Message 136 of 136 , Dec 18, 2005
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        I had forgotten that! Trinity Episcopal Church in Newport, RI (est. in the
        1700s) is a case in point. They have the actual pew St. George Washington
        sat in on several occasions. The pews, which have little doors on them,
        enclose property which goes up to outer space, and down to the center of the
        earth. They are real estate! And there are benches, rather crowded, in the
        balcony where the poor and the slaves sat in earlier times. They did have a
        rule that if the owner did not appear 10 min. before the service, his pew
        could be used by anyone! The pews are now all owned by the parish, I hope.
        But who knows, privilege dieth hard!

        There were other Episcopal churches dating from the 19th Cent. there that
        had 'free' pews.

        Rdr. James
        Olympia, WA

        -----Original Message-----
        From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Frank Senn
        Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 3:52 PM
        To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Re: The Holy Sacrament

        You guys are talking about benches. Pews are boxes. And they have their
        advantages. The toddlers can play on the floor without disturbing other
        worshipers and they keep out the draft. People would rent boxes (pews);
        they certainly wouldn't rent benches. Benches were up in the balcony for
        hoi poloi. Actually, in some churches (like the restored 18th century
        Frauenkirche in Dresden) there were glassed-in box seats for the nobility as
        first tier above the nave floor. The galleries were higher yet.

        Frank C. Senn
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