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RE: [liturgy-l] priest or minister?

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  • James Morgan
    Why not: Priest John, or Priest Evelyn? Gender neutral, and explicifies the office! Rdr. James ... From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
    Message 1 of 29 , Aug 4, 2005
      Why not: Priest John, or Priest Evelyn? Gender neutral, and explicifies the
      office!

      Rdr. James

      -----Original Message-----
      From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Jerry Kliner
      Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 2:03 PM
      To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] priest or minister?

      Not weird at all... Actually I think that's where
      Scott was headed with his Star Trek citation.

      I think that there's good, Pauline theology behind a
      single title for clergy (In Christ there is no east or
      west...). The question then becomes what do we do
      with the implicit gendered language of both "Father"
      and "Mother." (Notice that the subject line of the
      related thread became "call no man mother...")
      "Pastor," "Minister," and "Reverend" all avoid the
      issue because they are (in form) gender neutral. Even
      "Priest," were we to unshackle the term from how it
      was used could be used in a gender neutral form (even
      as the term "Aviator" now is used for both women and
      men instead of "Aviator/Aviatrix").

      Fr. Reimer works just fine. I just wonder how many
      people will accept using the implicit male gendered
      title as the default (should that become the
      standard...)?

      Of course the discussion could go the other way and I
      could end up as Mother Jerry Kliner! :-)

      Pax Christi;
      Pr. Jerry Kliner

      The Rev'd Kendall Reimer wrote:
      > Well you all may find this weird but this "Mother"
      > prefers to be called
      > Father." I explain to people it is not me but the
      > office they are addressing


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    • Scott Knitter
      I like it: Priest John, Reader James, Servant of God Jim... Parishioner Scott ... -- Scott R. Knitter Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
      Message 2 of 29 , Aug 4, 2005
        I like it: Priest John, Reader James, Servant of God Jim...

        Parishioner Scott

        On 04/08/05, James Morgan <rdrjames@...> wrote:
        > Why not: Priest John, or Priest Evelyn? Gender neutral, and explicifies the
        > office!

        --
        Scott R. Knitter
        Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
        mailto:scottknitter@... - http://scottknitter.blog-city.com
      • James Morgan
        Oh, just call me servus servorum Dei. I ll get used to it! Pecattor peccatoribus Jacobus de Olympiaay... ... From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
        Message 3 of 29 , Aug 4, 2005
          Oh, just call me servus servorum Dei. I'll get used to it!

          Pecattor peccatoribus Jacobus de Olympiaay...

          -----Original Message-----
          From: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com [mailto:liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Scott Knitter
          Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 4:22 PM
          To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] priest or minister?

          I like it: Priest John, Reader James, Servant of God Jim...

          Parishioner Scott

          On 04/08/05, James Morgan <rdrjames@...> wrote:
          > Why not: Priest John, or Priest Evelyn? Gender neutral, and explicifies
          the
          > office!
        • Theodore R. Lorah, Jr.
          Re: Priest or Minister I have been away for nine days, so I may be a little late on this one. However, I have now read several, and none go back to the source.
          Message 4 of 29 , Aug 10, 2005
            Re: Priest or Minister

            I have been away for nine days, so I may be a little late on this one.
            However, I have now read several, and none go back to the source. The
            word "pastor", shepherd, is a biblical term derived from the image Jesus
            gives of himself in conjunction with his words to peter at the end of
            John to "feed my sheep." And Jeremiah quotes God as saying: "I will
            give them pastors after my own heart."

            The word priest comes from the Greek "presbuteros", which means "elder",
            as opposed to "episkopos," president., or bishop. Methodists are
            ordained "deacon" and "elder." Presbyterians are ordained "elder", with
            the differentiation made between ruling elders, who are members of the
            Session, and reaching elders, who are pastors. (That was explicit in
            the old Southern Church, but it was not in the Northern Church.) The
            word "priest" is etymologically derived from the first part of
            "presbuteros", the "pres + t" making the word "priest." It essentially
            derives from the same place and means the same function in the congregation.

            I think we make too much of the terminological differences, missing the
            essential function that priests, elders, pastors perform a sacramental
            (except for Baptists) function within the worship that lay people do
            not. Now how much authority they have to exercise that function and
            what it means in the eyes of the laity in terms of church administration
            varies from denomination to denomination, and that is where the fun
            comes in as we argue those points. But a priest is an elder. A pastor
            is an elder. And an ordained minister is an elder.

            Ted Lorah
          • Tom Poelker
            Bishop is derived from episkopos by the same sort of oral twisting as priest derives from presbyteros. The usual translation is of episkopos is
            Message 5 of 29 , Aug 10, 2005
              "Bishop" is derived from "episkopos" by the same sort of oral twisting
              as "priest" derives from "presbyteros."
              The usual translation is of "episkopos" is "overseer."
              I have never before seen "episkopos" translated as "presider" or
              "president."
              "President/presider" is a direct borrowing from the Latin, "pre-sedere"
              basically meaning "to sit in front."

              Tom Poelker
              St. Louis, Missouri
              USA

              An unemployed jester is nobody's fool.




              lorah@... wrote:

              >Re: Priest or Minister
              >
              >
              >
              >The word priest comes from the Greek "presbuteros", which means "elder",
              >as opposed to "episkopos," president., or bishop.
              >
              >Ted Lorah
              >
              >
              >
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