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RE: [liturgy-l] Liturgy vs Technology

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  • Pastor Art Hebbeler STS
    There was a story about it recently on our local ABC affiliate s consumer report. The chains won t, of course, admit it, but it s amazing in how many hotels
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 6, 2004
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      There was a story about it recently on our local ABC affiliate's consumer
      report. The chains won't, of course, admit it, but it's amazing in how many
      hotels (4- 5-star variety in particular) one can't get a signal INSIDE, but
      step to the curb and viola! Reason for the belief of scanning is that one
      can go into an adjacent office building and get a signal. Theory for
      jamming is to force you to use the hotel phones and pay the extra megabucks.

      The Rev. Arthur F Hebbeler III, STS
      Pastor
      Abiding Presence Lutheran Church, Beltsville, MD
      www.AbidingPresence-Beltsville.org

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Thomas R. Jackson [mailto:thomas@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2004 4:38 PM
      To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [liturgy-l] Liturgy vs Technology



      >Tell that to some of the major hotel chains....(grrr)
      >
      >Art

      Are there American hotel chains that are actively jamming cell phone
      transmissions? I haven't heard this. If they are, then they are skating
      on thin ice.

      thomas.



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    • Brian Bennett
      Well... what about folks that actually have a good reason for having a cell phone/beeper/pager/etc.? I am thinking particularly about doctors, nurses, police,
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 7, 2004
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        Well... what about folks that actually have a good reason for having a
        cell phone/beeper/pager/etc.?

        I am thinking particularly about doctors, nurses, police, firefighters
        and the like. Growing up in a somewhat rural parish, where our fire
        department was all volunteer (a number of whom were members), it was
        not uncommom to for one particular fire fighter to carry a handheld
        scanner during service. It was kept low, but audible. When it went
        off, he and the others would rise and exit, no matter when during the
        service.

        Likewise, in the parish I now serve, many folks are on call on Sunday.
        Some have told me that if they get up and leave in the middle of my
        sermon, it's not because of what I'm saying... although I do wonder
        about some of them. :)

        I want to avoid the folks who just can't remember to at least turn
        their phones to vibrate. At the same time I don't want to interfere
        with people whose vocation leads them to need these devices. I would
        seriously hesitate jamming the incoming signals.

        Looking back on the fire fighter rushing out of worship, it seems that
        there could be no better place from which to rush out in the service
        of others.

        Just a thought.

        Peace,
        Brian
      • Michael Joe Thannisch
        I was a volunteer fireman for several years. I would turn my scanner off in church. One Sunday of the month (we tuook turns) I would stay at the station and
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 7, 2004
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          I was a volunteer fireman for several years. I would turn my scanner off in
          church. One Sunday of the month (we tuook turns) I would stay at the
          station and do Morning Prayer.

          Shalom B'Yeshua HaMoshiach

          Michael Joe Thannisch
          mjthan@...

          The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Brian Bennett" <pastorbrian@...>
          To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:18 PM
          Subject: [liturgy-l] Re: Liturgy vs Technology


          >
          >
          > Well... what about folks that actually have a good reason for having a
          > cell phone/beeper/pager/etc.?
          >
          > I am thinking particularly about doctors, nurses, police, firefighters
          > and the like. Growing up in a somewhat rural parish, where our fire
          > department was all volunteer (a number of whom were members), it was
          > not uncommom to for one particular fire fighter to carry a handheld
          > scanner during service. It was kept low, but audible. When it went
          > off, he and the others would rise and exit, no matter when during the
          > service.
          >
          > Likewise, in the parish I now serve, many folks are on call on Sunday.
          > Some have told me that if they get up and leave in the middle of my
          > sermon, it's not because of what I'm saying... although I do wonder
          > about some of them. :)
          >
          > I want to avoid the folks who just can't remember to at least turn
          > their phones to vibrate. At the same time I don't want to interfere
          > with people whose vocation leads them to need these devices. I would
          > seriously hesitate jamming the incoming signals.
          >
          > Looking back on the fire fighter rushing out of worship, it seems that
          > there could be no better place from which to rush out in the service
          > of others.
          >
          > Just a thought.
          >
          > Peace,
          > Brian
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To
          > write to the owners/moderators, please send an email to:
          > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comTo write to the owners/moderators, please
          > send an email to:
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          >
          >
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        • Brian Bennett
          So that s what everyone should do? I am afraid that turning off a scanner could send a message that what happens in church is somehow separate from the world
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 8, 2004
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            So that's what everyone should do?

            I am afraid that turning off a scanner could send a message that what
            happens in church is somehow separate from the world outside those
            walls. If occassionally the blurb of a scanner or the ring of a cell
            phone interrupts the service, perhaps it helps drive the point home.

            Peace,
            Brian

            --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Joe Thannisch"
            <mjthan@q...> wrote:
            > I was a volunteer fireman for several years. I would turn my
            scanner off in
            > church. One Sunday of the month (we tuook turns) I would stay at the
            > station and do Morning Prayer.
            >
            > Shalom B'Yeshua HaMoshiach
            >
            > Michael Joe Thannisch
            > mjthan@q...
            >
            > The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Brian Bennett" <pastorbrian@s...>
            > To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:18 PM
            > Subject: [liturgy-l] Re: Liturgy vs Technology
            >
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > Well... what about folks that actually have a good reason for having a
            > > cell phone/beeper/pager/etc.?
            > >
            > > I am thinking particularly about doctors, nurses, police, firefighters
            > > and the like. Growing up in a somewhat rural parish, where our fire
            > > department was all volunteer (a number of whom were members), it was
            > > not uncommom to for one particular fire fighter to carry a handheld
            > > scanner during service. It was kept low, but audible. When it went
            > > off, he and the others would rise and exit, no matter when during the
            > > service.
            > >
            > > Likewise, in the parish I now serve, many folks are on call on Sunday.
            > > Some have told me that if they get up and leave in the middle of my
            > > sermon, it's not because of what I'm saying... although I do wonder
            > > about some of them. :)
            > >
            > > I want to avoid the folks who just can't remember to at least turn
            > > their phones to vibrate. At the same time I don't want to interfere
            > > with people whose vocation leads them to need these devices. I would
            > > seriously hesitate jamming the incoming signals.
            > >
            > > Looking back on the fire fighter rushing out of worship, it seems that
            > > there could be no better place from which to rush out in the service
            > > of others.
            > >
            > > Just a thought.
            > >
            > > Peace,
            > > Brian
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To
            > > write to the owners/moderators, please send an email to:
            > > liturgy-l-owner@y... write to the owners/moderators, please
            > > send an email to:
            > > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
          • Michael Joe Thannisch
            I think it would depend on your local situation. If you were like us where half the fire department went ot church out of town, you could suggest a situation
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 8, 2004
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              I think it would depend on your local situation. If you were like us where
              half the fire department went ot church out of town, you could suggest a
              situation like we had, where the firemen take turns being on duty on Sunday,
              and possibley could arrange for services at the fire station as well.

              Shalom B'Yeshua HaMoshiach

              Michael Joe Thannisch
              mjthan@...

              The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Brian Bennett" <pastorbrian@...>
              To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 9:28 PM
              Subject: [liturgy-l] Re: Liturgy vs Technology


              >
              >
              > So that's what everyone should do?
              >
              > I am afraid that turning off a scanner could send a message that what
              > happens in church is somehow separate from the world outside those
              > walls. If occassionally the blurb of a scanner or the ring of a cell
              > phone interrupts the service, perhaps it helps drive the point home.
              >
              > Peace,
              > Brian
              >
              > --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Joe Thannisch"
              > <mjthan@q...> wrote:
              >> I was a volunteer fireman for several years. I would turn my
              > scanner off in
              >> church. One Sunday of the month (we tuook turns) I would stay at the
              >> station and do Morning Prayer.
              >>
              >> Shalom B'Yeshua HaMoshiach
              >>
              >> Michael Joe Thannisch
              >> mjthan@q...
              >>
              >> The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
              >>
              >> ----- Original Message -----
              >> From: "Brian Bennett" <pastorbrian@s...>
              >> To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
              >> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:18 PM
              >> Subject: [liturgy-l] Re: Liturgy vs Technology
              >>
              >>
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > Well... what about folks that actually have a good reason for having a
              >> > cell phone/beeper/pager/etc.?
              >> >
              >> > I am thinking particularly about doctors, nurses, police, firefighters
              >> > and the like. Growing up in a somewhat rural parish, where our fire
              >> > department was all volunteer (a number of whom were members), it was
              >> > not uncommom to for one particular fire fighter to carry a handheld
              >> > scanner during service. It was kept low, but audible. When it went
              >> > off, he and the others would rise and exit, no matter when during the
              >> > service.
              >> >
              >> > Likewise, in the parish I now serve, many folks are on call on Sunday.
              >> > Some have told me that if they get up and leave in the middle of my
              >> > sermon, it's not because of what I'm saying... although I do wonder
              >> > about some of them. :)
              >> >
              >> > I want to avoid the folks who just can't remember to at least turn
              >> > their phones to vibrate. At the same time I don't want to interfere
              >> > with people whose vocation leads them to need these devices. I would
              >> > seriously hesitate jamming the incoming signals.
              >> >
              >> > Looking back on the fire fighter rushing out of worship, it seems that
              >> > there could be no better place from which to rush out in the service
              >> > of others.
              >> >
              >> > Just a thought.
              >> >
              >> > Peace,
              >> > Brian
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To
              >> > write to the owners/moderators, please send an email to:
              >> > liturgy-l-owner@y... write to the owners/moderators, please
              >> > send an email to:
              >> > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
              >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >> >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To
              > write to the owners/moderators, please send an email to:
              > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comTo write to the owners/moderators, please
              > send an email to:
              > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Pastor Art Hebbeler STS
              We have a large volunteer component to our fire departments in Maryland. I ve had from time to time a handful of volunteers in the parish. Not one single time
              Message 6 of 22 , Oct 9, 2004
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                We have a large volunteer component to our fire departments in Maryland.
                I've had from time to time a handful of volunteers in the parish.

                Not one single time has a pager or cell phone for a fireman gone off in the
                middle of worship.

                The real estate agents in the congregation, now that's another story.

                Those who have a true need for constant connectivity generally have the
                common sense to use the "vibrate" function on pagers and cell phones.

                It's a growing issue, and one that affects more than just the church
                (movies, theatre, symphony, etc).

                The problem isn't the technology. It's manners.

                Art

                The Rev. Arthur F Hebbeler III, STS
                Pastor
                Abiding Presence Lutheran Church, Beltsville, MD
                www.AbidingPresence-Beltsville.org
                -----Original Message-----
                From: Michael Joe Thannisch [mailto:mjthan@...]
                Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 1:19 AM
                To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Re: Liturgy vs Technology


                I think it would depend on your local situation. If you were like us where
                half the fire department went ot church out of town, you could suggest a
                situation like we had, where the firemen take turns being on duty on Sunday,

                and possibley could arrange for services at the fire station as well.

                Shalom B'Yeshua HaMoshiach

                Michael Joe Thannisch
                mjthan@...

                The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Brian Bennett" <pastorbrian@...>
                To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 9:28 PM
                Subject: [liturgy-l] Re: Liturgy vs Technology


                >
                >
                > So that's what everyone should do?
                >
                > I am afraid that turning off a scanner could send a message that what
                > happens in church is somehow separate from the world outside those
                > walls. If occassionally the blurb of a scanner or the ring of a cell
                > phone interrupts the service, perhaps it helps drive the point home.
                >
                > Peace,
                > Brian
                >
                > --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Joe Thannisch"
                > <mjthan@q...> wrote:
                >> I was a volunteer fireman for several years. I would turn my
                > scanner off in
                >> church. One Sunday of the month (we tuook turns) I would stay at the
                >> station and do Morning Prayer.
                >>
                >> Shalom B'Yeshua HaMoshiach
                >>
                >> Michael Joe Thannisch
                >> mjthan@q...
                >>
                >> The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
                >>
                >> ----- Original Message -----
                >> From: "Brian Bennett" <pastorbrian@s...>
                >> To: <liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com>
                >> Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:18 PM
                >> Subject: [liturgy-l] Re: Liturgy vs Technology
                >>
                >>
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Well... what about folks that actually have a good reason for having a
                >> > cell phone/beeper/pager/etc.?
                >> >
                >> > I am thinking particularly about doctors, nurses, police, firefighters
                >> > and the like. Growing up in a somewhat rural parish, where our fire
                >> > department was all volunteer (a number of whom were members), it was
                >> > not uncommom to for one particular fire fighter to carry a handheld
                >> > scanner during service. It was kept low, but audible. When it went
                >> > off, he and the others would rise and exit, no matter when during the
                >> > service.
                >> >
                >> > Likewise, in the parish I now serve, many folks are on call on Sunday.
                >> > Some have told me that if they get up and leave in the middle of my
                >> > sermon, it's not because of what I'm saying... although I do wonder
                >> > about some of them. :)
                >> >
                >> > I want to avoid the folks who just can't remember to at least turn
                >> > their phones to vibrate. At the same time I don't want to interfere
                >> > with people whose vocation leads them to need these devices. I would
                >> > seriously hesitate jamming the incoming signals.
                >> >
                >> > Looking back on the fire fighter rushing out of worship, it seems that
                >> > there could be no better place from which to rush out in the service
                >> > of others.
                >> >
                >> > Just a thought.
                >> >
                >> > Peace,
                >> > Brian
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To
                >> > write to the owners/moderators, please send an email to:
                >> > liturgy-l-owner@y... write to the owners/moderators, please
                >> > send an email to:
                >> > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
                >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To

                > write to the owners/moderators, please send an email to:
                > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comTo write to the owners/moderators, please
                > send an email to:
                > liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.com
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >



                Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To
                write to the owners/moderators, please send an email to:
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              • asteresplanetai
                ... well, in some ways, isn t it? Here s from the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom (find parallels in other historical liturgies): Priest: Peace be to all!
                Message 7 of 22 , Oct 9, 2004
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                  +++

                  > From: "Brian Bennett" <pastorbrian@...>

                  > I am afraid that turning off a scanner could send a message that what
                  > happens in church is somehow separate from the world outside those
                  > walls.

                  well, in some ways, isn't it?

                  Here's from the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom (find parallels in other
                  historical liturgies):

                  Priest: Peace be to all!

                  People: And to thy spirit.

                  Priest: Let us love one another, that with one mind we may
                  confess:

                  People: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Trinity one in essence
                  and undivided.

                  Priest (bowing three times before the altar, each time saying):

                  I will love Thee, O Lord, my strength. The Lord is my
                  firm foundation, my refuge, and my deliverer.

                  Senior priest (giving the kiss of peace):

                  Christ is in our midst.

                  Other priest:

                  He is and ever shall be.

                  [And the other faithful do likewise, each within his order.]

                  Deacon: [Close] the doors! the doors! In wisdom let us attend!

                  People: I believe in one God....


                  In other words, the Eucharistic Liturgy ("Liturgy of the Faithful")
                  begins with the Peace, an affirmation of unity, and the Kiss; the doors
                  are closed, and the Church is taken up into the heavenly Kingdom to
                  participate in the mystical Sacrifice of the Lamb slain from the
                  foundation of the world.

                  Or again, a little later:


                  Choir: Let us who mystically represent the Cherubim and
                  who sing the thrice-holy hymn now lay aside all earthly
                  care, that we may receive the King of All....


                  So, who ever said that the Liturgy had to be constantly connected with
                  what's going on outside the temple? Is this a liturgical principle or
                  an ideology?

                  Turn off the damn cell phone, or at least set it to vibrate if you
                  absolutely have to be in touch for that hour!

                  Regards,

                  John burnett.
                • Scott Knitter
                  Rather than jamming cellphones, wouldn t it be nice if there could be a technology that automatically switches all cellphones to vibrate mode as one enters a
                  Message 8 of 22 , Oct 9, 2004
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                    Rather than jamming cellphones, wouldn't it be nice if there could be
                    a technology that automatically switches all cellphones to vibrate
                    mode as one enters a church? That would take care of those who forget
                    they even have a phone on their person, or just plain forget to turn
                    off the ringer.

                    On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:26:04 -0600, asteresplanetai
                    <asteresplanetai@...> wrote:

                    > Turn off the damn cell phone, or at least set it to vibrate if you
                    > absolutely have to be in touch for that hour!

                    --
                    Scott R. Knitter
                    Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
                    scottknitter@...
                  • Thomas R. Jackson
                    ... There is such technology! It just needs to be adopted widely. And it s legal in the US! thomas
                    Message 9 of 22 , Oct 9, 2004
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                      >Rather than jamming cellphones, wouldn't it be nice if there could be
                      >a technology that automatically switches all cellphones to vibrate
                      >mode as one enters a church? That would take care of those who forget
                      >they even have a phone on their person, or just plain forget to turn
                      >off the ringer.

                      There is such technology! It just needs to be adopted widely.

                      And it's legal in the US!

                      thomas
                    • Ormonde Plater
                      ... And especially recommended for the members of charismatic congregations. Ormonde Plater oplater@cox.net
                      Message 10 of 22 , Oct 9, 2004
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                        > Rather than jamming cellphones, wouldn't it be nice if there could be
                        > a technology that automatically switches all cellphones to vibrate
                        > mode as one enters a church?

                        And especially recommended for the members of charismatic congregations.

                        Ormonde Plater
                        oplater@...
                      • Pastor Art Hebbeler STS
                        Trouble is, folks with the vibrate mode might not know when it changes over, and a ill-placed cell phone might cause great embarrassment should it start
                        Message 11 of 22 , Oct 9, 2004
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                          Trouble is, folks with the "vibrate" mode might not know when it changes
                          over, and a ill-placed cell phone might cause great embarrassment should it
                          start vibrating....

                          This whole thread is great Dilbert fodder...<g>

                          Art

                          The Rev. Arthur F Hebbeler III, STS
                          Pastor
                          Abiding Presence Lutheran Church, Beltsville, MD
                          www.AbidingPresence-Beltsville.org

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Ormonde Plater [mailto:oplater@...]
                          Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 3:30 PM
                          To: liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [liturgy-l] Liturgy vs Technology


                          > Rather than jamming cellphones, wouldn't it be nice if there could be
                          > a technology that automatically switches all cellphones to vibrate
                          > mode as one enters a church?

                          And especially recommended for the members of charismatic congregations.

                          Ormonde Plater
                          oplater@...


                          Visit the liturgy-l homepage at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liturgy-l/To
                          write to the owners/moderators, please send an email to:
                          liturgy-l-owner@yahoogroups.comTo write to the owners/moderators, please
                          send an email to:
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                        • Scott Knitter
                          I used to keep my cell phone on vibrate when I worked in an office so I wouldn t contribute to the cacophony of ringers, speakerphones, etc. It made the
                          Message 12 of 22 , Oct 9, 2004
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                            I used to keep my cell phone on vibrate when I worked in an office so
                            I wouldn't contribute to the cacophony of ringers, speakerphones, etc.
                            It made the goofiest noise when it vibrated while lying on a
                            conference-room table. During a meeting, when it went off, the guy
                            leading the meeting asked, "Is someone stepping on a duck?" :)

                            On Sat, 9 Oct 2004 18:07:22 -0400, Pastor Art Hebbeler STS
                            <pastorhebbeler@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Trouble is, folks with the "vibrate" mode might not know when it changes
                            > over, and a ill-placed cell phone might cause great embarrassment should it
                            > start vibrating....

                            --
                            Scott R. Knitter
                            Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
                            scottknitter@...
                          • Jerry Kliner
                            asteresplanetai wrote: So, who ever said that the Liturgy had to be constantly connected with what s going on outside the temple? Is this a liturgical
                            Message 13 of 22 , Oct 11, 2004
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                              asteresplanetai wrote:

                              "So, who ever said that the Liturgy had to be
                              constantly connected with what's going on outside the
                              temple? Is this a liturgical principle or
                              an ideology?
                              Turn off the damn cell phone, or at least set it to
                              vibrate if you absolutely have to be in touch for that
                              hour!"

                              I lightly like to call cell-phones "the tool of the
                              devil," since people seem to have a complusive need to
                              be connected to everything at all times. In this
                              environment, a cell-phone can quickly become more than
                              a mere distraction and become something of an
                              obsession. It makes you wonder whom posesses whom,
                              the cell-phone or the "user."

                              I agree that the liturgy is "time set apart," a time
                              when the kingdom of God-- the real, "real world"--
                              comes tangibly among us and that we should be asking
                              the other way around. The question is not primarily
                              that the worship of God needs to be preoccupied with
                              what is going on "outside the walls," but what is the
                              kingdom of God saying to and about the world into
                              which it is breaking.

                              I see another crucial issue that we're skirting here,
                              which is what is the nature of the Sabbath and Sabbath
                              Keeping? When I was a CPE resident, one weekend a
                              month I kept a pager over the weekend and lived with
                              the uncertanity that I could be summoned to the
                              hospital at any given moment to deal with some form of
                              tragedy or another. It was difficult at best to (to
                              quote Luther)not "...despise God's Word or preaching,
                              but instead keep that Word holy and gladly hear and
                              learn it..." (Small Catechism, Explanation of the 3rd
                              Commandment) I "had" to carry the pager, but it
                              definitely had a deliterious effect on my ability to
                              worship.

                              I am currently resisting the call to get a cell-phone,
                              becuase (as a clergyperson)there are times when I just
                              don't want to be reachable. When I am unable to be
                              reached, I provide for my parish to be cared for by my
                              colleagues-- both Lutheran and ecumenical. It strikes
                              me that a key part of Sabbath keeping is learning that
                              we can not carry the whole world on our shoulders and
                              that we rely on others to help carry us as well.

                              Pr. Jerry Kliner





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                            • Michael Joe Thannisch
                              I agree. I have noted that people with cell phones often totally ignore their surroundings. I was almost run over by a grocery cart Saturday by a woman on a
                              Message 14 of 22 , Oct 11, 2004
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                                I agree. I have noted that people with cell phones often totally ignore
                                their surroundings. I was almost run over by a grocery cart Saturday by a
                                woman on a cell phone. She never saw me. Cell phones can have their uses,
                                but I agree that they often become an obsession.

                                Shalom B'Yeshua HaMoshiach

                                Michael Joe Thannisch
                                mjthan@...

                                The beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Jerry Kliner" <jerry_kliner@...>
                                > I lightly like to call cell-phones "the tool of the
                                > devil," since people seem to have a complusive need to
                                > be connected to everything at all times. In this
                                > environment, a cell-phone can quickly become more than
                                > a mere distraction and become something of an
                                > obsession. It makes you wonder whom posesses whom,
                                > the cell-phone or the "user."
                              • Scott Knitter
                                When someone receives a cell-phone call, something strange happens: they seem to feel entitled to enter the world of this cell-phone conversation, wherever
                                Message 15 of 22 , Oct 11, 2004
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                                  When someone receives a cell-phone call, something strange happens:
                                  they seem to feel entitled to enter the world of this cell-phone
                                  conversation, wherever they happen to be. I cannot claim that I have
                                  never done this myself. Another problem with cell phones is that they
                                  don't provide feedback as to whether one's own voice is getting
                                  through. It seems that land-line phones do this: you can hear your
                                  own voice as you speak. So cell-phone users speak overly loudly
                                  because they think they're not getting through.

                                  And of course we've all seen the corporate types who seem to think
                                  they will win points with others for looking connected, engaged,
                                  intense, and busy by having a cell phone up to their ear as they
                                  stride around the city. Men like to stick their elbows out in order
                                  to maximize the impression.

                                  What I always want to know is why 90 percent of public cell-phone
                                  users are ornery, vulgar, strident, and impatient with whomever is on
                                  the other end of the line? It's terribly annoying to have to endure
                                  their rants. One of these days I'll lose patience and do or say
                                  something I'll regret. Heaven forbid.

                                  On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:50:24 -0500, Michael Joe Thannisch
                                  <mjthan@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I agree. I have noted that people with cell phones often totally ignore
                                  > their surroundings. I was almost run over by a grocery cart Saturday by a
                                  > woman on a cell phone. She never saw me. Cell phones can have their uses,
                                  > but I agree that they often become an obsession.

                                  --
                                  Scott R. Knitter
                                  Edgewater, Chicago, Illinois USA
                                  scottknitter@...
                                • Bob White
                                  ... Since this was the mea maxima culpa version I suppose you expect someone to offer absolution? Bob + + + + + + + + + + + Music washes away from the soul the
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Oct 11, 2004
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                                    On 11 Oct 2004 at 19:29, Scott Knitter wrote:

                                    > One of these days I'll lose patience and do or say something I'll
                                    > regret. Heaven forbid.

                                    Since this was the mea maxima culpa version I suppose you expect
                                    someone to offer absolution?

                                    Bob

                                    + + + + + + + + + + +
                                    Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
                                    -----Berthold Auerbach, German Writer (1812-1882)

                                    Pastor Robert White
                                    Lordstown Lutheran Church (ELCA)
                                    5615 Palmyra Rd SW
                                    Lordstown, Ohio USA 44481
                                  • asteresplanetai
                                    ... Hmmm. so apparently, connecting with the outside world isn t a problem so much for our liturgies as for people on cell phones? by the way, a few weeks ago
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Oct 12, 2004
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                                      > When someone receives a cell-phone call, something strange happens:
                                      > they seem to feel entitled to enter the world of this cell-phone
                                      > conversation, wherever they happen to be.

                                      >> I agree. I have noted that people with cell phones often totally
                                      >> ignore
                                      >> their surroundings. I was almost run over by a grocery cart Saturday
                                      >> by a
                                      >> woman on a cell phone. She never saw me.

                                      Hmmm. so apparently, connecting with the outside world isn't a problem
                                      so much for our liturgies as for people on cell phones?

                                      by the way, a few weeks ago i began occasionally counting the percent
                                      of people i see on the sidewalk and in cars, who are on their cell
                                      phones. Around the univ. of california campus it was about 1 in 5.
                                      Elsewhere, 1 in 8 might be more common. Amazing, considering you
                                      couldn't buy them 10 years ago!

                                      regards,

                                      john burnett.
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