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Re: [liturgy-l] Mass celebration - a new Olympic discipline ?? (WAS Re Re Re etc.)

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  • Steve Benner
    ... Well, I think that would be more normative. It s fast, but to be honest, you don t notice it--there s no rush actually. There are usually about 4-5 in
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
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      At 2/3/2004 09:33 AM, Scott Knitter wrote:
      >On 3 Feb 2004 at 8:14, Steve Benner wrote:
      >
      > > Well... our Rector does a mean 16 minute Mass (with homily, no less) on
      > > Wednesday nights and has done it under 15 minutes. Yes, he follows all of
      > > the rubrics of the BCP. No, I don't think the speed is a virtue.
      >
      >I wonder why so fast? Is there a more important event following?
      >
      >When we were planning our Evening Prayer for weekdays in my former
      >parish, someone said if it takes less than 25-30 minutes, it wouldn't
      >be worth his time to come to the service. He also insisted that he
      >wouldn't come if we didn't do the confession of sin every time. So I
      >think we did. In my current parish it's never done at MP or EP,
      >because the assumption is you're going to attend Mass, where the
      >confession of sin is always done. And here, the office takes 20
      >minutes and the Mass 30.

      Well, I think that would be more normative. It's fast, but to be honest,
      you don't notice it--there's no rush actually. There are usually about 4-5
      in attendance, so it doesn't really take too much time to take Communion
      (we have a chalice bearer at that liturgy) and to do the Peace. And we do
      actually have weeknight classes which follow 30 minutes after the start
      time of Mass and the altar guild (who both the attend the Mass) also go to
      the one class and the priest teaches the other class. What's missing is a
      bit of reflective silence, IMO. (Also, the clergy in this parish don't do
      the Lavabo or offertory prayers and they don't do ablutions, so that cuts a
      number of minutes off from the liturgy as well. We also don't do the psalm
      or confession on weekdays.)

      Upon reflection, it's fast but not that fast.


      Steve Benner

      steve@...
      Oremus -- Daily Prayer, Hymnal and Liturgical Resources since 1993
      http://www.oremus.org
    • Thomas R. Jackson
      ... He used the Pauline Mass, in English. It should be no surprise that he invariably used EPII on these occasions. Ferial Masses normally don t have a
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
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        > > Twelve minutes for a mass ! Wow!! The good priest could probably apply
        > > for a position as "world's fastest".
        >
        >I find 12 minutes hard to believe and wonder what form of the Mass
        >was used...Tridentine? Novus Ordo?

        He used the Pauline Mass, in English. It should be no surprise that he
        invariably used EPII on these occasions. Ferial Masses normally don't have
        a Gloria or Credo, which pairs the time down, and there are normally only
        two readings including the Gospel. Still, twelve minutes is a bit extreme,
        I thought. Typically, I find that a weekday Mass runs about thirty
        minutes, perhaps as quick as twenty minutes for a very small crowd and no
        frills.

        thomas.
      • Cody C. Unterseher
        ... apply for a position as world s fastest . I ve tolerated a couple of daily masses that ran 9 minutes. (And this in a seminary, no less!) To say,
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
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          --- In liturgy-l@yahoogroups.com, "Mar Johannes Ephrem"
          <tkverno@o...> wrote:

          > Twelve minutes for a mass ! Wow!! The good priest could probably
          apply for a position as "world's fastest".

          I've tolerated a couple of daily masses that ran 9 minutes. (And
          this in a seminary, no less!) To say, however, that the president
          didn't miss or omit anything would be a misnomer. The periods of
          silence and reflection during the Penitential Rite, Liturgy of the
          Word, and After Communion each ran about 2 seconds, which, IMHO, is
          not quite what the rubricists had in mind.

          Cody
        • Scott Knitter
          During lunch I tried to read today s Mass (USA BCP ferial) in something like 12 minutes and gave up while speed-mumbling the Gospel. It was just too insane.
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
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            During lunch I tried to read today's Mass (USA BCP ferial) in
            something like 12 minutes and gave up while speed-mumbling
            the Gospel. It was just too insane.

            Then I tried to do the same with my daily office: Matins,
            Lauds, Terce, and Sext from the Monastic Diurnal Revised. I
            got into the first psalm of Terce before going bonkers.

            One imagines God listening intently and getting impatient
            because it's still not fast enough: "Come on! I need these
            words! Feed me those words! Faster!"

            Seems like the only sort of divine behaviour that would
            justify such speed-worship.

            Better to simply leave out all that can be left out according
            to the rubrics and have a simple, unrushed service.
            ______________________________________
            Scott Knitter, Chicago USA
            mailto:scottknitter@...
          • John Lagrue
            ... Absolutely. In my youth, in the days of Latin Masses, I once served for an Augustinian priest who got through his three consecutive Masses on All Souls Day
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 3, 2004
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              At 12:38 03/02/2004 +0100, you wrote:
              > Dear list members !
              >
              > Twelve minutes for a mass ! Wow!! The good priest could probably apply
              > for a position as "world's fastest". It seems to me that this might be a
              > new discipline within the Olympic games, both providing the participants
              > with daily masses without unnecessary delay, and even being a contest of
              > its own too. I do not know however if this is a summer discipline or a
              > winter one..... Maybe the speed is so hot that this is at its best during
              > winter games, and in open air......
              > The time might even be improved ???

              Absolutely.

              In my youth, in the days of Latin Masses, I once served for an Augustinian
              priest who got through his three consecutive Masses on All Souls Day in
              something under 25 minutes.

              John
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