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Re: [liturgy-l] Re: Translation - Unity & Uniformity

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  • Ormonde Plater
    ... theological ... Inspired by ... for the ... me. ... What about Do this to make me present ? Or Do this, and I will be with you ? And were it not for the
    Message 1 of 63 , Dec 2, 2003
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      > Sometimes translation must also consider how best to convey the
      > meaning of the text. In common English (American) understanding, doing
      > something "in memory of" lacks the force of the biblical anamnesis.
      Inspired by
      > Jeremias' study of the eucharistic words of Jesus, the LBW has "Do this
      for the
      > remembrance of me" instead of the traditional "Do this in remembrance of
      > The pronoun "for" gives "remembrance" a more objective quality.

      What about "Do this to make me present"? Or "Do this, and I will be with

      And were it not for the sneeze association, I would suggest "And God bless
      you" as a translation for "Et cum spiritu tuo."

      Ormonde Plater
    • asteresplanetai
      Blessed be God. Blessed be God. ... It s not just a question of the words, but of the form as well. The psalms you cite use the berakhah formula, but they
      Message 63 of 63 , Dec 5, 2003
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        Blessed be God.

        Blessed be God.

        > From: Matthew Weber <mweber@...>

        > > > V: "Blessed be God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit;"
        > > > R: "And Blessed be His Kingdom, now and forever."

        > >also, i'm not sure it's correct form for the *congregation* to give a
        > >blessing,
        > I don't see that as much of a problem, really. I mean, if you're going to
        > go that far, then you shouldn't allow the congregation to sing "Bless the
        > Lord, O my soul" either.

        It's not just a question of the words, but of the form as well. The
        psalms you cite use the 'berakhah' formula, but they are not
        specifically 'berakhoth'. the blessings cited above, however, are both
        berakhoth, formally and in context.

        like i did say, i'm not sure, but i do seem to recall reading
        somewhere that the proper answer to a berakah is not another berakhah
        but 'amen'.

        it's sort of like when a priest gives a blessing: 'may almighty God
        bless you, Father Son and Holy Spirit'. you don't return the favor by
        replying warmly, 'and may almighty God bless *you*, Father, Son and
        Holy Spirit!' you say Amen. something more is contained in the
        exchange than just the 'right' formula of words. a relationship is
        embodied and affirmed. the exchange is iconographic, in that sense.
        yes, we can always do other things, but in doing this thing, we learn
        something. anyway, that's my understanding of ritual generally. so, as
        i say, i think there's a form to the kind of berakhah that this is,
        but i'm not 100% sure so i won't insist.

        and it's not that i dislike the poetry of the exchange cited above.
        it's kind of pretty, actually.


        john burnett
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