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Re: [linuxham] QSK with fldigi on OS X

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  • Blake Michael
    Ed, some more definition may be necessary. To ME, QSK means full break-in CW. You type a letter on the keyboard and it is immediately sent. When not
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 6, 2010
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      Ed, some more definition may be necessary.  To ME,  QSK means full break-in CW.  You type a letter on the keyboard and it is immediately sent.  When not sending a character you are receiving.  Depending on selected delays when sending a string of words you may be able to hear between sentences, between words or between letters depending on how your delays are selected.

      What you DO NOT have to do is select between receive and transmit.  The software should also do this if it is true QSK software.  The receive function should always be running and the transmit buffer should send whenever it has something in it to be sent.    You might have tree functions:

      1.  Transmit - send characters until all are sent with no receive capability available
      2.  Receive - receive and print whatever comes in on the audio input but do not transmit anything from the buffer until instructed to do so with a TRANSMIT command
      3.  QSK - the receive function is active 100% of the time and transmit tones and keying sequences are sent whenever anything is available in the transmit buffer.

      The QSK function I have been able to implement with fldigi is limited to the transmitter and amplifier sequencing but receive is not running when sending.

      CW-Type and CW-Get function in a true QSK mode.  CW-Get runs all of the time and CY-Type can be told to transmit immediately or to buffer keyboard test until the transmit button is activated.

      If fldigi will do this, and it well may, I have not been able to determine HOW to make it do it:)


      Michael Blake





      On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:38 AM, Ed wrote:

       

      On 07/05/2010 04:49 PM, k9jri@... wrote:
      > I have not been able to set up fldigi for qsk operation. I must tell it to go into the transmit mode and then back to the receive mode after the transmission.
      >
      > How do I set it up so that all I have to do is enter a character from the keyboard, send the character and then go back to receive?
      >
      > I understand the right channel QSK options for sequenced amplifier keying but I can't get the actual QSK (full break-in) to function.
      >
      > 73 - Mike - K9JRI
      >
      >
      >

      Have you read through this ?

      http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.20/CWkeying.html

      Ed W3NR


    • Gerald K. Sherman
      I have 2 different xcvrs (ICOM 746 & ICOM 7200) which take slightly different settings on Flrig. (They have different addresses on the CI-V bus, and different
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 6, 2010
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        I have 2 different xcvrs (ICOM 746 & ICOM 7200) which take slightly
        different settings on Flrig. (They have different addresses on the CI-V
        bus, and different features.) Is it possible to store 2 different
        configurations and select the right one for the appropriate xcvr when I
        go to operate? The 746 is controlled through a Rig Expert "Standard"
        interface. I haven't decided whether the 7200 will be controlled via
        the Rig Expert with the appropriate cable (by which cable I plug into
        the Rig Expert - I have cables for both xcvrs), or directly though its
        own USB port. The one thing I can see happening if I don't use the Rig
        Expert for both is that the USB addresses may change depending on which
        xcvr(s) I have switched on, & if so, what order I turn them on in.
        Anybody have any comments on which way to go, & how I can store the 2
        different configurations?

        Gerry, VE4GKS
      • w1hkj
        What you describe with CW-TYPE AND CW-GET is not QSK but full duplex. Do not expect fldigi to perform in this manner, unless you run two instances of fldigi
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 6, 2010
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          What you describe with CW-TYPE AND CW-GET is not QSK but full duplex.  Do not expect fldigi to perform in this manner, unless you run two instances of fldigi ... one for receive and one for transmit.  Are you using a separate transmitter and receiver or expecting the transceiver to sequence the QSK commands?

          BTW Blake, the fldigi code is fully open source.  You can take a look at the CW modem class and the transmit / receive sequencing code and modify it to meet your specific needs.

          73, Dave, W1HKJ

          Blake Michael wrote:
          Ed, some more definition may be necessary.  To ME,  QSK means full break-in CW.  You type a letter on the keyboard and it is immediately sent.  When not sending a character you are receiving.  Depending on selected delays when sending a string of words you may be able to hear between sentences, between words or between letters depending on how your delays are selected.

          What you DO NOT have to do is select between receive and transmit.  The software should also do this if it is true QSK software.  The receive function should always be running and the transmit buffer should send whenever it has something in it to be sent.    You might have tree functions:

          1.  Transmit - send characters until all are sent with no receive capability available
          2.  Receive - receive and print whatever comes in on the audio input but do not transmit anything from the buffer until instructed to do so with a TRANSMIT command
          3.  QSK - the receive function is active 100% of the time and transmit tones and keying sequences are sent whenever anything is available in the transmit buffer.

          The QSK function I have been able to implement with fldigi is limited to the transmitter and amplifier sequencing but receive is not running when sending.

          CW-Type and CW-Get function in a true QSK mode.  CW-Get runs all of the time and CY-Type can be told to transmit immediately or to buffer keyboard test until the transmit button is activated.

          If fldigi will do this, and it well may, I have not been able to determine HOW to make it do it:)


          Michael Blake





          On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:38 AM, Ed wrote:

           

          On 07/05/2010 04:49 PM, k9jri@... wrote:
          > I have not been able to set up fldigi for qsk operation. I must tell it to go into the transmit mode and then back to the receive mode after the transmission.
          >
          > How do I set it up so that all I have to do is enter a character from the keyboard, send the character and then go back to receive?
          >
          > I understand the right channel QSK options for sequenced amplifier keying but I can't get the actual QSK (full break-in) to function.
          >
          > 73 - Mike - K9JRI
          >
          >
          >

          Have you read through this ?

          http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.20/CWkeying.html

          Ed W3NR



        • w1hkj
          flrig stores the parameters for each of the transceivers separately Gerry. I have both a TenTec Jupiter and a TenTec Argonaut set up a little as you describe.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 6, 2010
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            flrig stores the parameters for each of the transceivers separately
            Gerry. I have both a TenTec Jupiter and a TenTec Argonaut set up a
            little as you describe. The ArgoV is on a USB-serial converter and the
            Jupiter a h/w RS232 port. The Jupiter can be configured to operate as
            the TT538 or the TT550 in emulation mode. In effect I have the
            equivalent of 3 transceivers that can be selected in flrig. If I select
            the TT516 (ArgoV) then the correct port, baud rate, etc is obtained from
            the last configuration for that transceiver. If the TT538 or the TT550
            then it's port parameters are correctly set. Each individual setup is
            stored in the /home/<user>/.flrig directory. The file name
            "flrig.prefs" stores some basic status info common to all rigs and also
            the name of last used transceiver. flrig reads the "flrig.prefs" file
            and then subsequently reads the last rig file. In my case that would be
            either "TT-516.prefs", "TT-538.prefs", or "TT-550.prefs". If you were
            to 'ls' that folder on my development system you would find many more
            transceiver prefs files. I test for the code for "absent" transceivers
            using the serial port "NONE". All of those files are also in that folder.

            All of the prefs files are ASCII text. The contents can be viewed using
            any text editor. Use caution if you try modifying a file with an editor.

            flrig-1.0.0bG will be published within 24 hours. That version has many
            changes to the 7200 class code.

            73, Dave, W1HKJ

            Gerald K. Sherman wrote:
            > I have 2 different xcvrs (ICOM 746 & ICOM 7200) which take slightly
            > different settings on Flrig. (They have different addresses on the CI-V
            > bus, and different features.) Is it possible to store 2 different
            > configurations and select the right one for the appropriate xcvr when I
            > go to operate? The 746 is controlled through a Rig Expert "Standard"
            > interface. I haven't decided whether the 7200 will be controlled via
            > the Rig Expert with the appropriate cable (by which cable I plug into
            > the Rig Expert - I have cables for both xcvrs), or directly though its
            > own USB port. The one thing I can see happening if I don't use the Rig
            > Expert for both is that the USB addresses may change depending on which
            > xcvr(s) I have switched on, & if so, what order I turn them on in.
            > Anybody have any comments on which way to go, & how I can store the 2
            > different configurations?
            >
            > Gerry, VE4GKS
            >
          • Gerald K. Sherman
            Dave, thanks for the heads-up on the 7200 changes. Gerry, VE4GKS
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 6, 2010
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              Dave, thanks for the heads-up on the 7200 changes.

              Gerry, VE4GKS
            • Blake Michael
              Dave, Thanks for the response. I suspected that it was not possible with fldigi but I have been known to miss things in the documentation. It is true that
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 6, 2010
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                Dave,  Thanks for the response.  I suspected that it was not possible with fldigi but I have been known to miss things in the documentation.  It is true that the software would be, in the QSK mode, full duplex but the radio is not.  The radio is simplex with QSK switching.

                Yes, the transceivers are full QSK.  They do not even have a PTT or transmit switch.  Just key the key line and you can hear between letters at 10 wpm and words at 20 wpm.

                Michael Blake





                On Jul 6, 2010, at 2:14 PM, w1hkj wrote:

                 

                What you describe with CW-TYPE AND CW-GET is not QSK but full duplex.  Do not expect fldigi to perform in this manner, unless you run two instances of fldigi ... one for receive and one for transmit.  Are you using a separate transmitter and receiver or expecting the transceiver to sequence the QSK commands?

                BTW Blake, the fldigi code is fully open source.  You can take a look at the CW modem class and the transmit / receive sequencing code and modify it to meet your specific needs.

                73, Dave, W1HKJ

                Blake Michael wrote:

                Ed, some more definition may be necessary.  To ME,  QSK means full break-in CW.  You type a letter on the keyboard and it is immediately sent.  When not sending a character you are receiving.  Depending on selected delays when sending a string of words you may be able to hear between sentences, between words or between letters depending on how your delays are selected.

                What you DO NOT have to do is select between receive and transmit.  The software should also do this if it is true QSK software.  The receive function should always be running and the transmit buffer should send whenever it has something in it to be sent.    You might have tree functions:

                1.  Transmit - send characters until all are sent with no receive capability available
                2.  Receive - receive and print whatever comes in on the audio input but do not transmit anything from the buffer until instructed to do so with a TRANSMIT command
                3.  QSK - the receive function is active 100% of the time and transmit tones and keying sequences are sent whenever anything is available in the transmit buffer.

                The QSK function I have been able to implement with fldigi is limited to the transmitter and amplifier sequencing but receive is not running when sending.

                CW-Type and CW-Get function in a true QSK mode.  CW-Get runs all of the time and CY-Type can be told to transmit immediately or to buffer keyboard test until the transmit button is activated.

                If fldigi will do this, and it well may, I have not been able to determine HOW to make it do it:)


                Michael Blake





                On Jul 6, 2010, at 8:38 AM, Ed wrote:

                 

                On 07/05/2010 04:49 PM, k9jri@... wrote:
                > I have not been able to set up fldigi for qsk operation. I must tell it to go into the transmit mode and then back to the receive mode after the transmission.
                >
                > How do I set it up so that all I have to do is enter a character from the keyboard, send the character and then go back to receive?
                >
                > I understand the right channel QSK options for sequenced amplifier keying but I can't get the actual QSK (full break-in) to function.
                >
                > 73 - Mike - K9JRI
                >
                >
                >

                Have you read through this ?

                http://www.w1hkj. com/FldigiHelp- 3.20/CWkeying. html

                Ed W3NR





              • w1hkj
                ... Yes. Same thing on both my TenTec Jupiter and my TenTec Argonaut V. But that is only for true CW keyline keying. Unfortunately I have not found a way to
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 6, 2010
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                  Blake Michael wrote:
                  Dave,  Thanks for the response.  I suspected that it was not possible with fldigi but I have been known to miss things in the documentation.  It is true that the software would be, in the QSK mode, full duplex but the radio is not.  The radio is simplex with QSK switching.

                  Yes, the transceivers are full QSK.  They do not even have a PTT or transmit switch.  Just key the key line and you can hear between letters at 10 wpm and words at 20 wpm.

                  Michael Blake
                  Yes.  Same thing on both my TenTec Jupiter and my TenTec Argonaut V.  But that is only for true CW keyline keying.  Unfortunately I have not found a way to obtain precise timing needed for CW on any of the supported OS.  If you are keying at 20 wpm or less you would not notice the OS interaction with the application.  But at QRK speeds it is a horror show.  Windows (XP and later), Linux, Free-BSD and OS X are all multitasking operating systems, but they are not real time operating systems.  There is a linux kernal that is RT but very few operators are capable of building and installing it.  There is a cw os level module that can be used to provide pretty accurate CW via a serial or parallel port bit, cwdaemon.  It is an interrupt module and so it is possible to obtain more accurate timing than one with a user level application.

                  I wish I had a better answer for you, but I have never found a satisfactory solution to the keyline CW timing issue.  Ergo the use of AFCW with the transceiver in USB mode.  Listen to fldigi's CW or look at it on an oscilloscope and you will discover that it can produce some beautiful sounding code.  The leading and trailing edges of the waveform are precisely controlled using either a Hanning (raised cosine) or Blackman waveform.  There are no abrupt edges as one gets with an exponential edge.

                  I would be very grateful to someone who can provide the code necessary to achieve accurate CW timing via the serial port.  It would need to support keying speeds from 5 to 200 wpm.

                  Dave
                • Blake Michael
                  Thanks again Dave. Actually I use an audio to open collector 2N2222 converter circuit, similar to but much simpler than the circuit in your QSK
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 6, 2010
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                    Thanks again Dave.   Actually I use an audio to open collector 2N2222 converter circuit, similar to but much simpler than the circuit in your QSK documentation,  to send both CW and Feld Hell from fldigi.  I have not run in excess of 30 wpm CW but at that speed it looks good on a 475A scope and Feld Hell is reported to be good copy on the other end.    I am using that setup with a Hendricks QRP Kits NADC-40 transceiver.  It is about 2.5 watts and is completely QSK.

                    Michael Blake





                    On Jul 6, 2010, at 5:48 PM, w1hkj wrote:

                     
                    Yes.  Same thing on both my TenTec Jupiter and my TenTec Argonaut V.  But that is only for true CW keyline keying.  Unfortunately I have not found a way to obtain precise timing needed for CW on any of the supported OS.  If you are keying at 20 wpm or less you would not notice the OS interaction with the application.  But at QRK speeds it is a horror show.  Windows (XP and later), Linux, Free-BSD and OS X are all multitasking operating systems, but they are not real time operating systems.  There is a linux kernal that is RT but very few operators are capable of building and installing it.  There is a cw os level module that can be used to provide pretty accurate CW via a serial or parallel port bit, cwdaemon.  It is an interrupt module and so it is possible to obtain more accurate timing than one with a user level application.

                    I wish I had a better answer for you, but I have never found a satisfactory solution to the keyline CW timing issue.  Ergo the use of AFCW with the transceiver in USB mode.  Listen to fldigi's CW or look at it on an oscilloscope and you will discover that it can produce some beautiful sounding code.  The leading and trailing edges of the waveform are precisely controlled using either a Hanning (raised cosine) or Blackman waveform.  There are no abrupt edges as one gets with an exponential edge.



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