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Re: [linuxham] Re: Boot manager

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  • Jerry W
    Rick, The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit, 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is what I ment, it
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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      Rick,

      The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
      2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
      what I ment, it is 150 G.
      I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
      BootMagic for dual boot.
      So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
      installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.

      Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
      that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
      for Linux swap on the IDE drive.

      Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
      No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
      Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
      boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.

      Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
      set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
      for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.

      What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
      drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.

      So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive, and set GRUB for
      boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
      right into Windows.

      Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
      to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
      about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
      step of the install.

      Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
      let me delete or format that drive.

      Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
      Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
      and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
      why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.

      Yes I created a 1kb FAT32 partition for BootMagic on the SATA drive, I
      thought the boot record was there?

      My head hurts, going to go play on the radio for a while. 20 meter PSK
      looks like there is some activity there.

      Jerry - K0HZI




      On 2/6/07, KV9U <mrfarm@...> wrote:
      > I don't have any SCSI drive on my computer, but it is a SATA drive and
      > showed up as an sda when I was using a Live Linux distro. This is a
      > fairly inexpensive $400 Gateway about a year old with Intel Pentium 516
      > running at 2.93 GHz.
      >
      > My understanding may be imperfect, but I had thought that SATA drives
      > are really IDE drives, but when they went to the serial technology, they
      > used the term PATA (parallel version) for IDE.
      >
      > Is it possible that SATA drives show up an sda drive, or is this
      > peculiar to my equipment?
      >
      > 73,
      >
      > Rick, KV9U
      >
      >
      > Rick Kunath wrote:
      >
      > >
      > >SCSI drives show up as sd(x).
      > >
      > >Some motherboards use SATA drives in IDE emulation mode, so that's
      > >another thing to think about.
      > >
      > >And some motherboard's RAID emulation in software (i.e. not real RAID)
      > >doesn't work in Linux, thankfully most have a real hardware RAID
      > >controller as a second controller.
      > >
      > >Rick Kunath
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Jerry W
      Using part of Knoppix Hack #54, Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot Record SAVE THE MBR knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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        Using part of Knoppix Hack #54, Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot
        Record "SAVE THE MBR"

        knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda
        of=/home/knoppix/mbr_backup bs=512 count=1

        That is where I see the sda MBR 724 byte file, I see no 512 byte
        file, the file is in binary so only can read it with a binary editor.
        I looked at the file with the binary editor, but it is all like zeros
        and ones and some other symbols I don't understand, so I left it as
        is, di not make any changes. Did not put that sda MBR file on a CD or
        floppy as I figured it would not be correct.

        Jerry - K0HZI
      • Joe Barr
        Sounds like GRUB and BootMagic both want to run things. I would use GRUB and forget BootMagic, if that s possible, because I know GRUB easily handles
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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          Sounds like GRUB and BootMagic both want to run things. I would use
          GRUB and forget BootMagic, if that's possible, because I know GRUB
          easily handles dual-booting, and I don't have a clue as to what
          BootMagic can or can't do.

          Joe



          On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 10:32 -0600, Jerry W wrote:
          > Rick,
          >
          > The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
          > 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
          > what I ment, it is 150 G.
          > I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
          > BootMagic for dual boot.
          > So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
          > installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.
          >
          > Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
          > that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
          > for Linux swap on the IDE drive.
          >
          > Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
          > No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
          > Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
          > boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.
          >
          > Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
          > set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
          > for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.
          >
          > What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
          > drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.
          >
          > So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive, and set GRUB for
          > boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
          > right into Windows.
          >
          > Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
          > to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
          > about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
          > step of the install.
          >
          > Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
          > let me delete or format that drive.
          >
          > Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
          > Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
          > and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
          > why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.
          >
          > Yes I created a 1kb FAT32 partition for BootMagic on the SATA drive, I
          > thought the boot record was there?
          >
          > My head hurts, going to go play on the radio for a while. 20 meter PSK
          > looks like there is some activity there.
          >
          > Jerry - K0HZI
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On 2/6/07, KV9U <mrfarm@...> wrote:
          > > I don't have any SCSI drive on my computer, but it is a SATA drive and
          > > showed up as an sda when I was using a Live Linux distro. This is a
          > > fairly inexpensive $400 Gateway about a year old with Intel Pentium 516
          > > running at 2.93 GHz.
          > >
          > > My understanding may be imperfect, but I had thought that SATA drives
          > > are really IDE drives, but when they went to the serial technology, they
          > > used the term PATA (parallel version) for IDE.
          > >
          > > Is it possible that SATA drives show up an sda drive, or is this
          > > peculiar to my equipment?
          > >
          > > 73,
          > >
          > > Rick, KV9U
          > >
          > >
          > > Rick Kunath wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > > >SCSI drives show up as sd(x).
          > > >
          > > >Some motherboards use SATA drives in IDE emulation mode, so that's
          > > >another thing to think about.
          > > >
          > > >And some motherboard's RAID emulation in software (i.e. not real RAID)
          > > >doesn't work in Linux, thankfully most have a real hardware RAID
          > > >controller as a second controller.
          > > >
          > > >Rick Kunath
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Joe Barr
          ps: Yes, SATA drives are identified, as SDA, SDB, etc.
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            ps: Yes, SATA drives are identified, as SDA, SDB, etc.

            On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 11:09 -0600, Joe Barr wrote:
            > Sounds like GRUB and BootMagic both want to run things. I would use
            > GRUB and forget BootMagic, if that's possible, because I know GRUB
            > easily handles dual-booting, and I don't have a clue as to what
            > BootMagic can or can't do.
            >
            > Joe
            >
            >
            >
            > On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 10:32 -0600, Jerry W wrote:
            > > Rick,
            > >
            > > The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
            > > 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
            > > what I ment, it is 150 G.
            > > I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
            > > BootMagic for dual boot.
            > > So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
            > > installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.
            > >
            > > Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
            > > that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
            > > for Linux swap on the IDE drive.
            > >
            > > Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
            > > No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
            > > Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
            > > boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.
            > >
            > > Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
            > > set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
            > > for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.
            > >
            > > What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
            > > drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.
            > >
            > > So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive, and set GRUB for
            > > boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
            > > right into Windows.
            > >
            > > Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
            > > to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
            > > about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
            > > step of the install.
            > >
            > > Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
            > > let me delete or format that drive.
            > >
            > > Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
            > > Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
            > > and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
            > > why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.
            > >
            > > Yes I created a 1kb FAT32 partition for BootMagic on the SATA drive, I
            > > thought the boot record was there?
            > >
            > > My head hurts, going to go play on the radio for a while. 20 meter PSK
            > > looks like there is some activity there.
            > >
            > > Jerry - K0HZI
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > On 2/6/07, KV9U <mrfarm@...> wrote:
            > > > I don't have any SCSI drive on my computer, but it is a SATA drive and
            > > > showed up as an sda when I was using a Live Linux distro. This is a
            > > > fairly inexpensive $400 Gateway about a year old with Intel Pentium 516
            > > > running at 2.93 GHz.
            > > >
            > > > My understanding may be imperfect, but I had thought that SATA drives
            > > > are really IDE drives, but when they went to the serial technology, they
            > > > used the term PATA (parallel version) for IDE.
            > > >
            > > > Is it possible that SATA drives show up an sda drive, or is this
            > > > peculiar to my equipment?
            > > >
            > > > 73,
            > > >
            > > > Rick, KV9U
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Rick Kunath wrote:
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >SCSI drives show up as sd(x).
            > > > >
            > > > >Some motherboards use SATA drives in IDE emulation mode, so that's
            > > > >another thing to think about.
            > > > >
            > > > >And some motherboard's RAID emulation in software (i.e. not real RAID)
            > > > >doesn't work in Linux, thankfully most have a real hardware RAID
            > > > >controller as a second controller.
            > > > >
            > > > >Rick Kunath
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Rick Kunath
            Comments inline... ... You mean megs here, gigs, or really 1k on the FAT32 partition?? I run XOSL in a 2 GB partition at the beginning of the first drive, not
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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              Comments inline...

              Jerry W wrote:
              > The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
              > 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
              > what I ment, it is 150 G.
              > I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
              > BootMagic for dual boot.
              > So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
              > installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.

              You mean megs here, gigs, or really 1k on the FAT32 partition?? I run
              XOSL in a 2 GB partition at the beginning of the first drive, not
              because it needs that much space, but I have a copy of DOS7 there for
              the stuff I need now and then that needs it.

              > Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
              > that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
              > for Linux swap on the IDE drive.

              2 GB swap, maybe?

              > Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
              > No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
              > Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
              > boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.
              >
              > Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
              > set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
              > for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.

              So it (BM) installed itself into the IDE drive MBR too, right? Except
              that's where you had Linux install it's bootloader, which is likely gone
              now. If you installed GRUB in the MBR of the IDE drive you should have
              had BM chain to the second drive's MBR. If you put GRUB in the root
              sector of the Linux boot partition, then you should have seen another
              copy of BM on the MBR and chained from there to GRUB in Linux boot
              partition. My head is spinning just thinking about this :)

              > What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
              > drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.

              Did it ever?

              > So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive

              From where on the drive, exactly?

              > and set GRUB for
              > boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
              > right into Windows.

              It's not there on the MBR then. Did you get it installed on the IDE MBR
              or the SATA MBR?

              > Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
              > to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
              > about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
              > step of the install.
              >
              > Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
              > let me delete or format that drive.
              >
              > Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
              > Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
              > and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
              > why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.

              BM likely installed an extended MBR. Bad form, and one of the reasons
              why I don't like any boot manager that messes with the standard MBR.
              (XOSL doesn't, it uses space on the FAT32 partition it lives in as extra
              space rather than messing up the MBR with an extended non-standard MBR.
              It also stores copies of any MBR changes so you can go back and unscrew
              any errors later.) But I don't think you need it, or any other boot
              manager than GRUB.

              So we have a few things we know...

              Windows boots OK from the SATA drive when it is set to boot.

              We don't know what the state of the MBR on the SATA drive is, do we? Is
              this a non-standard MBR now, or have you reverted it back to standard?

              If it isn't a standard MBR, find out from PowerQuest how to get it back
              to standard.

              When you do that, you'll be pre-Boot Magic and OK on the standard
              Windows install on the SATA drive. I'd fire up the Windows recovery
              console and do a fixboot and fixmbr to be sure I had a standard MBR and
              restored boot sequence on the SATA drive.

              We know you have an extended MBR on the second drive. This has to be
              corrected. Once you do that, delete all of the partitions on the second
              drive.

              Next, we need to know if your distro supports SATA drives, and if so,
              does it support your SATA controller? Not all are supported? What
              exactly is your SATA controller? (Look it up on Windows in the device
              manager.) We need to know if it is supported or not. If not, that would
              explain why you couldn't get GRUB in the SATA drive's MBR.

              See where you are at with these things...

              I don't know about U/Kubuntu installs in general, but on a Mandriva 2007
              install, you'd follow the bouncing ball, pick a drive, defer to default
              partitioning or create your own, the installer would handle the moving,
              re-sizing, formatting, then move to the pick-your-packages or accept the
              default stage. You can move backwards and forwards in the install
              process, as well as get context related help on every step explaining
              everything, your options, how to choose, etc. After that watch the
              blinky lights as everything gets installed. Then on to some quick tests
              of hardware, some quick network config, ask you where to install the
              bootloader and which one you want (default lilo, or GRUB), and reboot to
              see the lilo screen offering you your choice of Windows or Linux. Click
              Linux and start playing.

              If I had to guess, using BM is a big part of why you are having so much
              trouble with this...

              Rick Kunath
            • Jerry W
              Symantic which now owns PartitionMagic and BootMagic advised that if I made a Rescue Disk on a floppy disk , ( I did) to use that to choose the boot sector.
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                Symantic which now owns PartitionMagic and BootMagic advised that if
                I made a Rescue Disk on a floppy disk , ( I did) to use that to choose
                the boot sector. Only the NTFS drive shows and no Linux to boot to.

                I guess the only way is to reinstall Windows XP Pro, or leave every
                thing alone, forget about using Linux.

                I tried to install Kubuntu on the SATA drive with a 21,006.09 MB
                partiton for ext3 for Linux,
                and a Linux swap 1004.1 MB partition.

                Kubuntu did not want to install there either, kept saying there was an
                error and took me back to step one. Also tried Simply Mepis, I have
                used that distro a lot, like it but that would not install on the SATA
                drive either.

                Don't know what to do, hate to loose everything on Windows XP, have 10
                G of files on that drive. Could try a "repair" of Windows XP pro, but
                I have done that before and it is not the same as I originally
                installed.

                Jerry



                On 2/6/07, Rick Kunath <k9ao@...> wrote:
                > Comments inline...
                >
                > Jerry W wrote:
                > > The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
                > > 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
                > > what I ment, it is 150 G.
                > > I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
                > > BootMagic for dual boot.
                > > So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
                > > installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.
                >
                > You mean megs here, gigs, or really 1k on the FAT32 partition?? I run
                > XOSL in a 2 GB partition at the beginning of the first drive, not
                > because it needs that much space, but I have a copy of DOS7 there for
                > the stuff I need now and then that needs it.
                >
                > > Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
                > > that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
                > > for Linux swap on the IDE drive.
                >
                > 2 GB swap, maybe?
                >
                > > Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
                > > No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
                > > Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
                > > boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.
                > >
                > > Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
                > > set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
                > > for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.
                >
                > So it (BM) installed itself into the IDE drive MBR too, right? Except
                > that's where you had Linux install it's bootloader, which is likely gone
                > now. If you installed GRUB in the MBR of the IDE drive you should have
                > had BM chain to the second drive's MBR. If you put GRUB in the root
                > sector of the Linux boot partition, then you should have seen another
                > copy of BM on the MBR and chained from there to GRUB in Linux boot
                > partition. My head is spinning just thinking about this :)
                >
                > > What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
                > > drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.
                >
                > Did it ever?
                >
                > > So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive
                >
                > From where on the drive, exactly?
                >
                > > and set GRUB for
                > > boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
                > > right into Windows.
                >
                > It's not there on the MBR then. Did you get it installed on the IDE MBR
                > or the SATA MBR?
                >
                > > Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
                > > to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
                > > about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
                > > step of the install.
                > >
                > > Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
                > > let me delete or format that drive.
                > >
                > > Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
                > > Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
                > > and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
                > > why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.
                >
                > BM likely installed an extended MBR. Bad form, and one of the reasons
                > why I don't like any boot manager that messes with the standard MBR.
                > (XOSL doesn't, it uses space on the FAT32 partition it lives in as extra
                > space rather than messing up the MBR with an extended non-standard MBR.
                > It also stores copies of any MBR changes so you can go back and unscrew
                > any errors later.) But I don't think you need it, or any other boot
                > manager than GRUB.
                >
                > So we have a few things we know...
                >
                > Windows boots OK from the SATA drive when it is set to boot.
                >
                > We don't know what the state of the MBR on the SATA drive is, do we? Is
                > this a non-standard MBR now, or have you reverted it back to standard?
                >
                > If it isn't a standard MBR, find out from PowerQuest how to get it back
                > to standard.
                >
                > When you do that, you'll be pre-Boot Magic and OK on the standard
                > Windows install on the SATA drive. I'd fire up the Windows recovery
                > console and do a fixboot and fixmbr to be sure I had a standard MBR and
                > restored boot sequence on the SATA drive.
                >
                > We know you have an extended MBR on the second drive. This has to be
                > corrected. Once you do that, delete all of the partitions on the second
                > drive.
                >
                > Next, we need to know if your distro supports SATA drives, and if so,
                > does it support your SATA controller? Not all are supported? What
                > exactly is your SATA controller? (Look it up on Windows in the device
                > manager.) We need to know if it is supported or not. If not, that would
                > explain why you couldn't get GRUB in the SATA drive's MBR.
                >
                > See where you are at with these things...
                >
                > I don't know about U/Kubuntu installs in general, but on a Mandriva 2007
                > install, you'd follow the bouncing ball, pick a drive, defer to default
                > partitioning or create your own, the installer would handle the moving,
                > re-sizing, formatting, then move to the pick-your-packages or accept the
                > default stage. You can move backwards and forwards in the install
                > process, as well as get context related help on every step explaining
                > everything, your options, how to choose, etc. After that watch the
                > blinky lights as everything gets installed. Then on to some quick tests
                > of hardware, some quick network config, ask you where to install the
                > bootloader and which one you want (default lilo, or GRUB), and reboot to
                > see the lilo screen offering you your choice of Windows or Linux. Click
                > Linux and start playing.
                >
                > If I had to guess, using BM is a big part of why you are having so much
                > trouble with this...
                >
                > Rick Kunath
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Rick Kunath
                ... You don t want to rescue BM, you want to remove it and restore the standard MBR. You ve got to get rid of Boot Magic and get a standard MBR back. Do that
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                  Jerry W wrote:

                  > Symantic which now owns PartitionMagic and BootMagic advised that if
                  > I made a Rescue Disk on a floppy disk , ( I did) to use that to choose
                  > the boot sector. Only the NTFS drive shows and no Linux to boot to.

                  You don't want to rescue BM, you want to remove it and restore the
                  standard MBR.

                  You've got to get rid of Boot Magic and get a standard MBR back. Do that
                  first.

                  > I guess the only way is to reinstall Windows XP Pro, or leave every
                  > thing alone, forget about using Linux.

                  You don't need to re-install XP. What you need to do is fix the MBR.
                  NTLDR, the XP bootloader, is in the root sector of the Windows NTFS
                  partition and intact, as you can boot Windows. The code in the MBR
                  simply chains to NTLDR.

                  If you have a real XP disk or can borrow one, you can insert it, pick
                  "recovery console" from the choices, then issue the fixboot command
                  followed by the fixmbr command. This should fix the boot sequence and
                  write a standard MBR to the SATA drive. See if you now have a standard
                  MBR. After that the SATA drive is fixed.

                  If you have a standard MBR, it is already fixed.

                  > I tried to install Kubuntu on the SATA drive with a 21,006.09 MB
                  > partiton for ext3 for Linux,
                  > and a Linux swap 1004.1 MB partition.
                  >
                  > Kubuntu did not want to install there either, kept saying there was an
                  > error and took me back to step one. Also tried Simply Mepis, I have
                  > used that distro a lot, like it but that would not install on the SATA
                  > drive either.

                  I am wondering if your SATA motherboard controller is not supported in
                  any of the Linux versions you tried so far? What is it hardware wise?
                  Are you trying to do some kind of software RAID?

                  > Don't know what to do, hate to loose everything on Windows XP, have 10
                  > G of files on that drive. Could try a "repair" of Windows XP pro, but
                  > I have done that before and it is not the same as I originally
                  > installed.

                  You don't need to repair XP. Your issue is not with XP, but the MBR on
                  the SATA drive. You don't have to touch XP to fix that.

                  So... lets find out if you have now got a standard MBR on the SATA
                  drive, and what the SATA controller on your motherboard is.

                  Don't give up yet :)

                  Rick Kunath, k9ao
                • Rick Kunath
                  ... That s because the standard 512 byte MBR was replaced with an EMBR (Extended MBR) by Boot Magic. What you need to do is restore the original standard 512
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                    Jerry W wrote:
                    > Using part of Knoppix Hack #54, Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot
                    > Record "SAVE THE MBR"
                    >
                    > knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda
                    > of=/home/knoppix/mbr_backup bs=512 count=1
                    >
                    > That is where I see the sda MBR 724 byte file, I see no 512 byte
                    > file,

                    That's because the standard 512 byte MBR was replaced with an EMBR
                    (Extended MBR) by Boot Magic. What you need to do is restore the
                    original standard 512 byte MBR.


                    > the file is in binary so only can read it with a binary editor.
                    > I looked at the file with the binary editor, but it is all like zeros
                    > and ones and some other symbols I don't understand, so I left it as
                    > is, di not make any changes. Did not put that sda MBR file on a CD or
                    > floppy as I figured it would not be correct.

                    Right, it's an extended MBR, not a standard MBR. One of the bad side
                    effects of Boot Magic, and some other boot managers.

                    Did you load up your XP install disk and start the recovery console,
                    then issue a fixmbr command?

                    That'll tell Windows to replace the MBR with a standard MBR which it
                    will do, and then issue a fixboot command. This will set everything back
                    to a standard MBR and the normal Windows boor sequence.

                    Once you are there, worry about fixing the second drive.

                    Rick Kunath

                    >
                    > Jerry - K0HZI
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Jerry W
                    Rick, Success, and thanks for all the input. Before I used the recovery console I completely removed BootMagic from the computer. Used the fixmbr command.
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 7, 2007
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                      Rick,

                      Success, and thanks for all the input. Before I used the recovery
                      console I completely removed BootMagic from the computer. Used the
                      fixmbr command. Windows booted normal. Then using PartitionMagic
                      looked at the IDE drive and it was back to normal. So in case there
                      were some bad files reformatted the IDE drive then set it as a Linux
                      ext3 drive, the whole 40 G. Tried to install Kubuntu with GRUB on the
                      SATA drive, gave me an error and it did not complete the install. So
                      installed with GRUB on the IDE drive, that worked, switched the IDE
                      drive as the first boot drive, there was the menu for Kunbuntu and
                      Windows XP and every thing seems to be working correctly both Windows
                      and Kubuntu 6.10.

                      Before I go any further, Dave - W1HKJ if your reading this, what do I
                      need to install for fldigi besides the files on your site?

                      Thanks again for all the help for an old geezer.

                      Things are looking better, even got above zero yesterday for the first
                      time since last Friday. 12 above, but a lot better than minus 15 last
                      Saturday.

                      Jerry - K0HZI


                      On 2/6/07, Rick Kunath <k9ao@...> wrote:
                      > Jerry W wrote:
                      > > Using part of Knoppix Hack #54, Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot
                      > > Record "SAVE THE MBR"
                      > >
                      > > knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda
                      > > of=/home/knoppix/mbr_backup bs=512 count=1
                      > >
                      > > That is where I see the sda MBR 724 byte file, I see no 512 byte
                      > > file,
                      >
                      > That's because the standard 512 byte MBR was replaced with an EMBR
                      > (Extended MBR) by Boot Magic. What you need to do is restore the
                      > original standard 512 byte MBR.
                      >
                      >
                      > > the file is in binary so only can read it with a binary editor.
                      > > I looked at the file with the binary editor, but it is all like zeros
                      > > and ones and some other symbols I don't understand, so I left it as
                      > > is, di not make any changes. Did not put that sda MBR file on a CD or
                      > > floppy as I figured it would not be correct.
                      >
                      > Right, it's an extended MBR, not a standard MBR. One of the bad side
                      > effects of Boot Magic, and some other boot managers.
                      >
                      > Did you load up your XP install disk and start the recovery console,
                      > then issue a fixmbr command?
                      >
                      > That'll tell Windows to replace the MBR with a standard MBR which it
                      > will do, and then issue a fixboot command. This will set everything back
                      > to a standard MBR and the normal Windows boor sequence.
                      >
                      > Once you are there, worry about fixing the second drive.
                      >
                      > Rick Kunath
                      >
                      > >
                      > > Jerry - K0HZI
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Rick Kunath
                      ... Excellent news Jerry! And a good lesson for us all as to third-party bootloaders like Boot Magic and why using them might not be such a good idea. Also on
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 7, 2007
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                        Jerry W wrote:
                        > Rick,
                        >
                        > Success, and thanks for all the input. Before I used the recovery
                        > console I completely removed BootMagic from the computer. Used the
                        > fixmbr command. Windows booted normal. Then using PartitionMagic
                        > looked at the IDE drive and it was back to normal. So in case there
                        > were some bad files reformatted the IDE drive then set it as a Linux
                        > ext3 drive, the whole 40 G. Tried to install Kubuntu with GRUB on the
                        > SATA drive, gave me an error and it did not complete the install. So
                        > installed with GRUB on the IDE drive, that worked, switched the IDE
                        > drive as the first boot drive, there was the menu for Kunbuntu and
                        > Windows XP and every thing seems to be working correctly both Windows
                        > and Kubuntu 6.10.

                        Excellent news Jerry!

                        And a good lesson for us all as to third-party bootloaders like Boot
                        Magic and why using them might not be such a good idea. Also on why
                        using Partition Magic or any cylinder-boundary limited partitioning tool
                        is a bad idea with Linux. Glad you got it sorted out.

                        I suspect that your distro does not fully support the SATA drive
                        controller chipset and that is why you can't install GRUB on it. If
                        anyone is looking to use a drive like this, make sure that the
                        motherboard chipset is supported, and know whether you have to set the
                        SATA drive controller to IDE emulation before formatting or can use it
                        as an SATA drive.

                        Your solution of booting the second drive first is a good one.

                        Rick Kunath, k9ao
                      • KV9U
                        Are you saying that no Linux distibution can support SATA drives directly and always need you to change the drive controller to IDE emulation? Aren t most all
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 7, 2007
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                          Are you saying that no Linux distibution can support SATA drives
                          directly and always need you to change the drive controller to IDE
                          emulation?

                          Aren't most all computers made in the past few years using SATA drives?

                          Rick, KV9U



                          Rick Kunath wrote:

                          >And a good lesson for us all as to third-party bootloaders like Boot
                          >Magic and why using them might not be such a good idea. Also on why
                          >using Partition Magic or any cylinder-boundary limited partitioning tool
                          >is a bad idea with Linux. Glad you got it sorted out.
                          >
                          >I suspect that your distro does not fully support the SATA drive
                          >controller chipset and that is why you can't install GRUB on it. If
                          >anyone is looking to use a drive like this, make sure that the
                          >motherboard chipset is supported, and know whether you have to set the
                          >SATA drive controller to IDE emulation before formatting or can use it
                          >as an SATA drive.
                          >
                          >Your solution of booting the second drive first is a good one.
                          >
                          >Rick Kunath, k9ao
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Rick Kunath
                          ... Nope. Lots of SATA controllers are supported directly, of those that are, some are not supported using SATA software RAID, but since software raid isn t
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 7, 2007
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                            KV9U wrote:
                            > Are you saying that no Linux distibution can support SATA drives
                            > directly and always need you to change the drive controller to IDE
                            > emulation?

                            Nope.

                            Lots of SATA controllers are supported directly, of those that are, some
                            are not supported using SATA software RAID, but since software raid
                            isn't really RAID anyway, it isn't important.

                            Sometimes when a controller isn't supported by SATA drivers on a distro,
                            the drive can still be used using IDE emulation.

                            It's better to buy supported hardware and make sure you don't have
                            compatibility issues with your particular distro choice. On Mandriva
                            2007 most SATA drives work just fine in native SATA mode. But there are
                            so many SATA controller chipsets out there, you need to be sure the
                            chipset is supported by the kernel drivers. It isn't as universal as IDE
                            support quite yet.

                            Rick Kunath, k9ao
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