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Boot manager

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  • Jerry W
    I tried to install Kubuntu 6.10 on a second hard drive. The main drive is a STA drive and the second drive is IDE drive. I loaded GRUB on the STA drive
    Message 1 of 29 , Feb 4, 2007
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      I tried to install Kubuntu 6.10 on a second hard drive. The main
      drive is a "STA" drive and the second drive is "IDE" drive. I loaded
      GRUB on the STA drive which is the first boot drive on loading
      sequence. However when I select any of the choices, Kubuntu or
      Windows XP it gives me an error saying there is no such OS?

      I have "PartitionMagic" and "BootMagic" version 8.0 from PowerQuest or
      I guess is now Symantec that owns the license. But Boot Magic does
      not find the IDE drive even though I have checked the box labled
      "BootMagic Enabled.

      Jerry - K0HZI
    • Rick Kunath
      ... Are you certain that your bootloader is chaining to the correct partition on the correct drive, and that there is a valid boot sector there? I.e., you
      Message 2 of 29 , Feb 4, 2007
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        Jerry W wrote:
        > I tried to install Kubuntu 6.10 on a second hard drive. The main
        > drive is a "STA" drive and the second drive is "IDE" drive. I loaded
        > GRUB on the STA drive which is the first boot drive on loading
        > sequence. However when I select any of the choices, Kubuntu or
        > Windows XP it gives me an error saying there is no such OS?

        Are you certain that your bootloader is chaining to the correct
        partition on the correct drive, and that there is a valid boot sector
        there? I.e., you installed lilo or grub in the boot sector of the Linux
        boot partition during your install? That way your boot manager in the
        MBR (I prefer Xosl) chains to lilo or grub and starts the Linux boot
        process, or chains to NTLDR and starts the Windows boot process.

        > I have "Partition Magic" and "Boot Magic" version 8.0 from PowerQuest or
        > I guess is now Symantec that owns the license. But Boot Magic does
        > not find the IDE drive even though I have checked the box labled
        > "BootMagic Enabled.

        Powerquest products, Partition Magic and the like have big issues when
        used with non-Microsoft operating systems. A Microsoft operating
        partition assumes that any partition must and does start and end on a
        cylinder boundary. Linux has no such limitation (either does Windows,
        but the M$ installer/partitioning utility does.) Many times a Linux
        partition will either start or end on something other than a cylinder
        boundary. This is not an error and is normal behavior. If you attempt to
        use Partition magic to work with this partition (or worse yet, to allow
        Partition magic to attempt to repair it) you'll have a *big* problem,
        and you'll get to be a re-install expert real fast.

        My best advice is to avoid Partition magic totally. If you must use a
        Windows partition manager, Paragon Hard Drive Manager works fine with
        Linux (and Windows) partitions and will not cause the errors due to the
        PM limitations described above. Of course, there are many free Linux
        based partitioning utilities that don't have the issue either. You could
        (and many would argue, should) use one of these.

        Also be careful of ReiserFS partitions and PM.

        Rick Kunath
      • Jerry W
        Rick, I am not sure, I am kind of a newbie with Linux. I wish there was a local mentor who could spend a few hours with me to show me the the things I need
        Message 3 of 29 , Feb 4, 2007
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          Rick,

          I am not sure, I am kind of a newbie with Linux. I wish there was a
          local "mentor" who could spend a few hours with me to show me the the
          things I need to install and use Linux. I have been to the local LUG
          groups, but they want me to bring the computer in to show me. I have
          congestive heart disease, and can not carry all the box and monitor to
          the install fest.

          Asked for assistance from the LUG group, no one seems to be interested
          in helping an old geezer (68) with Linux.

          Jerry - K0HZI


          --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, Rick Kunath <k9ao@...> wrote:

          >
          > Are you certain that your bootloader is chaining to the correct
          > partition on the correct drive, and that there is a valid boot sector
          > there? I.e., you installed lilo or grub in the boot sector of the Linux
          > boot partition during your install? That way your boot manager in the
          > MBR (I prefer Xosl) chains to lilo or grub and starts the Linux boot
          > process, or chains to NTLDR and starts the Windows boot process.
        • Rick Kunath
          ... I see you are up in Minneapolis. My son, k9rk is up there too. He s another Linux ham. The first thing you have to do is to make sure that your BIOS has
          Message 4 of 29 , Feb 4, 2007
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            Jerry W wrote:
            > I am not sure, I am kind of a newbie with Linux. I wish there was a
            > local "mentor" who could spend a few hours with me to show me the the
            > things I need to install and use Linux. I have been to the local LUG
            > groups, but they want me to bring the computer in to show me. I have
            > congestive heart disease, and can not carry all the box and monitor to
            > the install fest.
            >
            > Asked for assistance from the LUG group, no one seems to be interested
            > in helping an old geezer (68) with Linux.

            I see you are up in Minneapolis. My son, k9rk is up there too. He's
            another Linux ham.

            The first thing you have to do is to make sure that your BIOS has the
            SATA drive set as the first drive to boot. I think you said so, but check.

            The next thing is to see where everything installed. I take it that you
            followed the default partitioning, etc, on your Linux install and
            successfully installed to the second IDE hard drive. Did you choose to
            make a boot floppy during the installation? If so, can you boot Linux
            with that? That'll tell you the install is OK and the bootloader is the
            issue.

            I take it that you loaded GRUB on the MBR (Master Boot Record) of the
            SATA drive during the install of Linux and that you see the GRUB screen
            at boot?

            If you installed Boot Magic after that, you wiped out GRUB in the MBR
            and that's why you can't boot Linux now, and will have to do one of
            several things to get it going again.

            Either reinstall it (GRUB) and let it overwrite Boot Magic in the MBR,
            or leave Boot Magic in the MBR and install GRUB to the root sector of
            the Linux boot partition. Your Linux install disk should help you there
            as it should have a restore bootloader option to put GRUB back wherever
            you told it to put it during the initial install. To move the bootloader
            from the MBR to the Linux partition root sector is a bit more
            complicated, but not overly so. If you are going to run XP and one Linux
            distro, I'd just install GRUB (or lilo, the other Linux bootloader that
            some distros use) in the MBR and let it handle chaining (passing the
            boot sequence to another bootloader on another partition) for XP.

            I don't run Kubuntu, preferring Mandriva 2007 but there are
            Ubuntu/Debian users here in the group that will be familiar with your
            exact installation.

            If you have Boot magic installed in the MBR and see it's screen, you
            should be able to boot to XP. You can always boot your XP install disk
            (if you have only a recovery disk you'll have to hunt up a friend with a
            real XP disk) and run the recovery console from there. The command
            fixboot should get XP booting again. (Do not run the fixmbr command or
            you'll wipe out Boot Magic and or GRUB from the MBR.

            Do a few checks and sit tight for someone who is more familiar with
            Kubuntu to reply before running any commands or doing anything more.

            You're close to having things set OK. Gather some facts and post
            anything you find before changing anything.

            Rick Kunath, k9ao


            >
            > Jerry - K0HZI
            >
            >
            > --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, Rick Kunath <k9ao@...> wrote:
            >
            >> Are you certain that your bootloader is chaining to the correct
            >> partition on the correct drive, and that there is a valid boot sector
            >> there? I.e., you installed lilo or grub in the boot sector of the Linux
            >> boot partition during your install? That way your boot manager in the
            >> MBR (I prefer Xosl) chains to lilo or grub and starts the Linux boot
            >> process, or chains to NTLDR and starts the Windows boot process.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Ed
            ... Jerry, Rick s recommendations are just what I would have suggested. But, neither U/Kbntu provide a way to make a boot floppie. My question is did you let
            Message 5 of 29 , Feb 5, 2007
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              Jerry W wrote:
              > I tried to install Kubuntu 6.10 on a second hard drive. The main
              > drive is a "STA" drive and the second drive is "IDE" drive. I loaded
              > GRUB on the STA drive which is the first boot drive on loading
              > sequence. However when I select any of the choices, Kubuntu or
              > Windows XP it gives me an error saying there is no such OS?
              >
              > I have "PartitionMagic" and "BootMagic" version 8.0 from PowerQuest or
              > I guess is now Symantec that owns the license. But Boot Magic does
              > not find the IDE drive even though I have checked the box labled
              > "BootMagic Enabled.
              >
              > Jerry - K0HZI


              Jerry, Rick's recommendations are just what I would have suggested. But,
              neither U/Kbntu provide a way to make a boot floppie. My question is did
              you let Kubuntu do the partioning or did you use partition magic ?
              Basically all Linux distros install about the same. The only real
              difference is the choice of boot loader, Grub or Lilo. Are you saying
              that Bootmagic does not see the ide at all or just not see the Liux
              install. Please give us exactly the procedure you followed and at what
              point are you now. Hopefully this will be an easy fix, once we know
              where you are.

              Ed W3NR
            • Jerry W
              Ed, Right now the second HDD is all messed up. Tried to use PartitonMagic to format the drive, and also to delete the drive, but PartitionMagic won t allow
              Message 6 of 29 , Feb 5, 2007
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                Ed,

                Right now the second HDD is all messed up. Tried to use
                PartitonMagic to format the drive, and also to delete the drive, but
                PartitionMagic won't allow any of those, says something about the
                partition is beyond the selected partition?? Tried to reinstall
                Kunbitu. but get an error saying it can not create the file or
                something. So guess the second HDD is a total loss. Do not know how
                to reformat that drive.

                Jerry - KOHZI




                On 2/5/07, Ed <autek@...> wrote:
                > Jerry W wrote:
                > > I tried to install Kubuntu 6.10 on a second hard drive. The main
                > > drive is a "STA" drive and the second drive is "IDE" drive. I loaded
                > > GRUB on the STA drive which is the first boot drive on loading
                > > sequence. However when I select any of the choices, Kubuntu or
                > > Windows XP it gives me an error saying there is no such OS?
                > >
                > > I have "PartitionMagic" and "BootMagic" version 8.0 from PowerQuest or
                > > I guess is now Symantec that owns the license. But Boot Magic does
                > > not find the IDE drive even though I have checked the box labled
                > > "BootMagic Enabled.
                > >
                > > Jerry - K0HZI
                >
                >
                > Jerry, Rick's recommendations are just what I would have suggested. But,
                > neither U/Kbntu provide a way to make a boot floppie. My question is did
                > you let Kubuntu do the partioning or did you use partition magic ?
                > Basically all Linux distros install about the same. The only real
                > difference is the choice of boot loader, Grub or Lilo. Are you saying
                > that Bootmagic does not see the ide at all or just not see the Liux
                > install. Please give us exactly the procedure you followed and at what
                > point are you now. Hopefully this will be an easy fix, once we know
                > where you are.
                >
                > Ed W3NR
              • Rick Kunath
                ... For every job there is the right tool. For any Linux partitioning job, that isn t Partition Magic :) This might be the old PM losing it s mind because of
                Message 7 of 29 , Feb 5, 2007
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                  Jerry W wrote:

                  > Right now the second HDD is all messed up. Tried to use
                  > PartitonMagic to format the drive, and also to delete the drive, but
                  > PartitionMagic won't allow any of those, says something about the
                  > partition is beyond the selected partition?? Tried to reinstall
                  > Kunbitu. but get an error saying it can not create the file or
                  > something. So guess the second HDD is a total loss. Do not know how
                  > to reformat that drive.

                  For every job there is the right tool. For any Linux partitioning job,
                  that isn't Partition Magic :)

                  This might be the old PM losing it's mind because of the cylinder
                  boundary issue I mentioned up the thread. Hard to say for sure without
                  seeing the screen. Don't worry about re-formatting the second drive yet,
                  and I am sure you will be able to with a Linux tool.

                  What *exactly* was the partitioning scheme on the second drive? How many
                  primary partitions, what type (ext3, ReiserFs, etc.), and was there an
                  extended partition with logical partitions in it?

                  What about the MBR on the first drive, describe the steps you took with
                  the bootloader(s).

                  Rick Kunath, k9ao
                • Rein Couperus
                  I would: * check if DOS sees both disks * load the pskmail live CD * fdisk /dev/hda * fdisk /dev/hdb in fdisk use p to see your partitions Then fdisk and
                  Message 8 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                    I would:

                    * check if DOS sees both disks
                    * load the pskmail live CD
                    * fdisk /dev/hda
                    * fdisk /dev/hdb
                    in fdisk use 'p' to see your partitions

                    Then fdisk and mkfs will help you to clean the mess (delete partitions, make new ones, put a decent OS on etc etc...).

                    73,

                    Rein EA/PA0R/P

                    > -----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
                    > Von: linuxham@yahoogroups.com
                    > Gesendet: 06.02.07 02:57:25
                    > An: linuxham@yahoogroups.com
                    > Betreff: Re: [linuxham] Boot manager


                    >
                    > Ed,
                    >
                    > Right now the second HDD is all messed up. Tried to use
                    > PartitonMagic to format the drive, and also to delete the drive, but
                    > PartitionMagic won't allow any of those, says something about the
                    > partition is beyond the selected partition?? Tried to reinstall
                    > Kunbitu. but get an error saying it can not create the file or
                    > something. So guess the second HDD is a total loss. Do not know how
                    > to reformat that drive.
                    >
                    > Jerry - KOHZI
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On 2/5/07, Ed <autek@...> wrote:
                    > > Jerry W wrote:
                    > > > I tried to install Kubuntu 6.10 on a second hard drive. The main
                    > > > drive is a "STA" drive and the second drive is "IDE" drive. I loaded
                    > > > GRUB on the STA drive which is the first boot drive on loading
                    > > > sequence. However when I select any of the choices, Kubuntu or
                    > > > Windows XP it gives me an error saying there is no such OS?
                    > > >
                    > > > I have "PartitionMagic" and "BootMagic" version 8.0 from PowerQuest or
                    > > > I guess is now Symantec that owns the license. But Boot Magic does
                    > > > not find the IDE drive even though I have checked the box labled
                    > > > "BootMagic Enabled.
                    > > >
                    > > > Jerry - K0HZI
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Jerry, Rick's recommendations are just what I would have suggested. But,
                    > > neither U/Kbntu provide a way to make a boot floppie. My question is did
                    > > you let Kubuntu do the partioning or did you use partition magic ?
                    > > Basically all Linux distros install about the same. The only real
                    > > difference is the choice of boot loader, Grub or Lilo. Are you saying
                    > > that Bootmagic does not see the ide at all or just not see the Liux
                    > > install. Please give us exactly the procedure you followed and at what
                    > > point are you now. Hopefully this will be an easy fix, once we know
                    > > where you are.
                    > >
                    > > Ed W3NR
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --
                    http://pa0r.blogspirit.com
                  • Jerry W
                    Rein, How do I use DOS to check for drives? Have Windows XP Professional as main OS, there is a cmd tool that is DOS I guess, used the cmd for finding my IP
                    Message 9 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                      Rein,

                      How do I use DOS to check for drives?
                      Have Windows XP Professional as main OS, there is a "cmd" tool that is
                      DOS I guess, used the cmd for finding my IP addresses for Echo Link.

                      I have Knoppix 5.1 distro on CD that can run "live", and tried to use
                      that with the book "Knoppix Hacks" but fdisk was not one I tried.

                      My drives under Knoppix are:
                      sda1 the main Windows OS, 140 G
                      sda2 with a 1 Kb DOS partition for BootMagic
                      hda1 38 G for Linux Ext 3 partition
                      hda2 2 Kb for Linux Swap

                      Tried to "rescue" the files for Linux with Knoppix Hack, but must have
                      done it wrong as the files are there, but can not boot to Linux from
                      the main drive (sda1) where I placed the bootloader using GRUB on the
                      MBR. But the GRUB does not load and the main drive goes right into
                      Windows, there is no selection for Linux on boot.
                      I think the MBR on sda1 is messed up with both BootMagic and GRUB
                      trying to boot from the MBA. But Windows loads, so I am at a complete
                      loss as what to do.

                      Is this mess because of the two different types of Hard Drives? The
                      main drive is a "STA" and the second drive where I want to install
                      Linux is "IDE".

                      Think I have a real mess on my hands, more than I can handle.

                      Jerry - K0HZI






                      --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, Rein Couperus <rein@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I would:
                      >
                      > * check if DOS sees both disks
                      > * load the pskmail live CD
                      > * fdisk /dev/hda
                      > * fdisk /dev/hdb
                      > in fdisk use 'p' to see your partitions
                      >
                      > Then fdisk and mkfs will help you to clean the mess (delete
                      partitions, make new ones, put a decent OS on etc etc...).
                      >
                      > 73,
                      >
                      > Rein EA/PA0R/P

                      >
                    • w1hkj
                      ... Is there a remote possibility that the GRUB loader actually was placed on the IDE rather than the STA? You might try switching to your BIOS set up screen
                      Message 10 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                        Jerry W wrote:

                        >Rein,
                        >
                        >How do I use DOS to check for drives?
                        >Have Windows XP Professional as main OS, there is a "cmd" tool that is
                        >DOS I guess, used the cmd for finding my IP addresses for Echo Link.
                        >
                        >I have Knoppix 5.1 distro on CD that can run "live", and tried to use
                        >that with the book "Knoppix Hacks" but fdisk was not one I tried.
                        >
                        >My drives under Knoppix are:
                        >sda1 the main Windows OS, 140 G
                        >sda2 with a 1 Kb DOS partition for BootMagic
                        >hda1 38 G for Linux Ext 3 partition
                        >hda2 2 Kb for Linux Swap
                        >
                        >Tried to "rescue" the files for Linux with Knoppix Hack, but must have
                        >done it wrong as the files are there, but can not boot to Linux from
                        >the main drive (sda1) where I placed the bootloader using GRUB on the
                        >MBR. But the GRUB does not load and the main drive goes right into
                        >Windows, there is no selection for Linux on boot.
                        >I think the MBR on sda1 is messed up with both BootMagic and GRUB
                        >trying to boot from the MBA. But Windows loads, so I am at a complete
                        >loss as what to do.
                        >
                        >Is this mess because of the two different types of Hard Drives? The
                        >main drive is a "STA" and the second drive where I want to install
                        >Linux is "IDE".
                        >
                        >
                        Is there a remote possibility that the GRUB loader actually was placed
                        on the IDE rather than the STA?

                        You might try switching to your BIOS set up screen when you first turn
                        the computer on. You usually can get to it by pressing the DEL key on
                        most computers. You should have a brief message that tells you how.

                        When in the BIOS setup make the IDE the first boot device. Save the
                        BIOS configuration and then try restarting the computer. If you get
                        GRUB then it was put on the wrong drive during the installation of Linux.

                        You can always revert back to making the STA the first boot device by
                        reconfiguring the BIOS. This procedure should not harm either drive.

                        Dave, W1HKJ
                      • Jerry W
                        Dave, Already tried that, switching so the IDE boots first, comes up NO OS Jerry
                        Message 11 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                          Dave,

                          Already tried that, switching so the IDE boots first, comes up "NO OS"

                          Jerry



                          On 2/6/07, w1hkj <w1hkj@...> wrote:
                          > Jerry W wrote:
                          >
                          > >Rein,
                          > >
                          > >How do I use DOS to check for drives?
                          > >Have Windows XP Professional as main OS, there is a "cmd" tool that is
                          > >DOS I guess, used the cmd for finding my IP addresses for Echo Link.
                          > >
                          > >I have Knoppix 5.1 distro on CD that can run "live", and tried to use
                          > >that with the book "Knoppix Hacks" but fdisk was not one I tried.
                          > >
                          > >My drives under Knoppix are:
                          > >sda1 the main Windows OS, 140 G
                          > >sda2 with a 1 Kb DOS partition for BootMagic
                          > >hda1 38 G for Linux Ext 3 partition
                          > >hda2 2 Kb for Linux Swap
                          > >
                          > >Tried to "rescue" the files for Linux with Knoppix Hack, but must have
                          > >done it wrong as the files are there, but can not boot to Linux from
                          > >the main drive (sda1) where I placed the bootloader using GRUB on the
                          > >MBR. But the GRUB does not load and the main drive goes right into
                          > >Windows, there is no selection for Linux on boot.
                          > >I think the MBR on sda1 is messed up with both BootMagic and GRUB
                          > >trying to boot from the MBA. But Windows loads, so I am at a complete
                          > >loss as what to do.
                          > >
                          > >Is this mess because of the two different types of Hard Drives? The
                          > >main drive is a "STA" and the second drive where I want to install
                          > >Linux is "IDE".
                          > >
                          > >
                          > Is there a remote possibility that the GRUB loader actually was placed
                          > on the IDE rather than the STA?
                          >
                          > You might try switching to your BIOS set up screen when you first turn
                          > the computer on. You usually can get to it by pressing the DEL key on
                          > most computers. You should have a brief message that tells you how.
                          >
                          > When in the BIOS setup make the IDE the first boot device. Save the
                          > BIOS configuration and then try restarting the computer. If you get
                          > GRUB then it was put on the wrong drive during the installation of Linux.
                          >
                          > You can always revert back to making the STA the first boot device by
                          > reconfiguring the BIOS. This procedure should not harm either drive.
                          >
                          > Dave, W1HKJ
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Rick Kunath
                          ... So when did you install Boot Magic? Can you describe the exact sequence of what you did during the Linux install, and afterwards? And, what s in the MBR?
                          Message 12 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                            Jerry W wrote:

                            > Already tried that, switching so the IDE boots first, comes up "NO OS"

                            So when did you install Boot Magic?

                            Can you describe the exact sequence of what you did during the Linux
                            install, and afterwards?

                            And, what's in the MBR? Boot Magic or GRUB? If GRUB isn't in the MBR,
                            where did you tell the Linux installer to put it? The root sector of the
                            Linux boot partition?

                            Your idea of using Boot Magic is OK, I do something similar with XOSL,
                            and it also lives in a small FAT32 partition at the very beginning of my
                            first drive, also the one with Windows on it. I do this because I run
                            many different Linux distros and chaining to a Linux bootloader located
                            in the root sector of the particular distro's boot partition is a lot
                            easier than having to reconfigure things every time I make changes. For
                            your setup, if you are only going to have one Linux distro installed,
                            it's really overkill as the Linux bootloader can easily handle booting
                            to either Windows or Linux for you. If you are wanting to use Boot magic
                            to chain to GRUB for booting Linux, you have to have GRUB installed in
                            the root sector of the Linux boot partition, and that'd be on drive 2 in
                            your described setup (not the drive 2 MBR).



                            Rick Kunath, k9ao
                          • KV9U
                            I would like to ask if SATA drives show up as sda(x) drives on Linux instead of hda(x). I have seen this when I was running Live Linux versions and was
                            Message 13 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                              I would like to ask if SATA drives show up as sda(x) drives on Linux
                              instead of hda(x). I have seen this when I was running Live Linux
                              versions and was confused as I have not found anything that indicates this.

                              Considering that SATA drives seem to be the norm these days, over the
                              parallel form of IDE, you would think that Linux would keep up with the
                              changing terminology of the technology.

                              So when does it show a drive as being sda instead of hda?

                              Thanks for help on this.

                              73,

                              Rick, KV9U


                              Jerry W wrote:

                              >Rein,
                              >
                              >How do I use DOS to check for drives?
                              >Have Windows XP Professional as main OS, there is a "cmd" tool that is
                              >DOS I guess, used the cmd for finding my IP addresses for Echo Link.
                              >
                              >I have Knoppix 5.1 distro on CD that can run "live", and tried to use
                              >that with the book "Knoppix Hacks" but fdisk was not one I tried.
                              >
                              >My drives under Knoppix are:
                              >sda1 the main Windows OS, 140 G
                              >sda2 with a 1 Kb DOS partition for BootMagic
                              >hda1 38 G for Linux Ext 3 partition
                              >hda2 2 Kb for Linux Swap
                              >
                              >Tried to "rescue" the files for Linux with Knoppix Hack, but must have
                              >done it wrong as the files are there, but can not boot to Linux from
                              >the main drive (sda1) where I placed the bootloader using GRUB on the
                              >MBR. But the GRUB does not load and the main drive goes right into
                              >Windows, there is no selection for Linux on boot.
                              >I think the MBR on sda1 is messed up with both BootMagic and GRUB
                              >trying to boot from the MBA. But Windows loads, so I am at a complete
                              >loss as what to do.
                              >
                              >Is this mess because of the two different types of Hard Drives? The
                              >main drive is a "STA" and the second drive where I want to install
                              >Linux is "IDE".
                              >
                              >Think I have a real mess on my hands, more than I can handle.
                              >
                              >Jerry - K0HZI
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >--- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, Rein Couperus <rein@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >>I would:
                              >>
                              >>* check if DOS sees both disks
                              >>* load the pskmail live CD
                              >>* fdisk /dev/hda
                              >>* fdisk /dev/hdb
                              >>in fdisk use 'p' to see your partitions
                              >>
                              >>Then fdisk and mkfs will help you to clean the mess (delete
                              >>
                              >>
                              >partitions, make new ones, put a decent OS on etc etc...).
                              >
                              >
                              >>73,
                              >>
                              >>Rein EA/PA0R/P
                              >>
                              >>
                            • Rick Kunath
                              ... SCSI drives show up as sd(x). Some motherboards use SATA drives in IDE emulation mode, so that s another thing to think about. And some motherboard s RAID
                              Message 14 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                KV9U wrote:

                                > So when does it show a drive as being sda instead of hda?

                                SCSI drives show up as sd(x).

                                Some motherboards use SATA drives in IDE emulation mode, so that's
                                another thing to think about.

                                And some motherboard's RAID emulation in software (i.e. not real RAID)
                                doesn't work in Linux, thankfully most have a real hardware RAID
                                controller as a second controller.

                                Rick Kunath
                              • Rein Couperus
                                sorry, I meant the BIOS, not DOS... If the BIOS sees both drives, you have full control with fdisk under Linux. Any live CD will do. fdisk dev hda you can use
                                Message 15 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  sorry, I meant the BIOS, not DOS...

                                  If the BIOS sees both drives, you have full control with fdisk under Linux. Any live CD will do.

                                  fdisk \dev\hda
                                  you can use 'm' for help, 'q' for quit.
                                  p (to look at the partitions)
                                  d [partition1] (delete the old partition)
                                  d [partition2] (delete the old partition)
                                  n [partition1] (make a new Linux partition)
                                  t 82 (make type ext2)
                                  n [partition2] (make a swap partition of 1G)
                                  t 83 (make type Linux swap)
                                  p (to look at what you've done)
                                  then set the bootable flag on partition 1
                                  w (and write the partition table (use q to quit without changing anything)).

                                  Any Linux distro will see the empty partitions and format/copy its files into it upon install, and then write the boot loader.
                                  Normally the boot loader should also include your windows OS as an option.

                                  Then change the boot sequence in the BIOS to start with the first IDE drive (must be master).

                                  hope this helps.

                                  Rein EA/PA0R/P

                                  > -----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
                                  > Von: linuxham@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Gesendet: 06.02.07 13:06:35
                                  > An: linuxham@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Betreff: [linuxham] Re: Boot manager


                                  >
                                  > Rein,
                                  >
                                  > How do I use DOS to check for drives?
                                  > Have Windows XP Professional as main OS, there is a "cmd" tool that is
                                  > DOS I guess, used the cmd for finding my IP addresses for Echo Link.
                                  >
                                  > I have Knoppix 5.1 distro on CD that can run "live", and tried to use
                                  > that with the book "Knoppix Hacks" but fdisk was not one I tried.
                                  >
                                  > My drives under Knoppix are:
                                  > sda1 the main Windows OS, 140 G
                                  > sda2 with a 1 Kb DOS partition for BootMagic
                                  > hda1 38 G for Linux Ext 3 partition
                                  > hda2 2 Kb for Linux Swap
                                  >
                                  > Tried to "rescue" the files for Linux with Knoppix Hack, but must have
                                  > done it wrong as the files are there, but can not boot to Linux from
                                  > the main drive (sda1) where I placed the bootloader using GRUB on the
                                  > MBR. But the GRUB does not load and the main drive goes right into
                                  > Windows, there is no selection for Linux on boot.
                                  > I think the MBR on sda1 is messed up with both BootMagic and GRUB
                                  > trying to boot from the MBA. But Windows loads, so I am at a complete
                                  > loss as what to do.
                                  >
                                  > Is this mess because of the two different types of Hard Drives? The
                                  > main drive is a "STA" and the second drive where I want to install
                                  > Linux is "IDE".
                                  >
                                  > Think I have a real mess on my hands, more than I can handle.
                                  >
                                  > Jerry - K0HZI
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, Rein Couperus <rein@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > I would:
                                  > >
                                  > > * check if DOS sees both disks
                                  > > * load the pskmail live CD
                                  > > * fdisk /dev/hda
                                  > > * fdisk /dev/hdb
                                  > > in fdisk use 'p' to see your partitions
                                  > >
                                  > > Then fdisk and mkfs will help you to clean the mess (delete
                                  > partitions, make new ones, put a decent OS on etc etc...).
                                  > >
                                  > > 73,
                                  > >
                                  > > Rein EA/PA0R/P
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  http://pa0r.blogspirit.com
                                • KV9U
                                  I don t have any SCSI drive on my computer, but it is a SATA drive and showed up as an sda when I was using a Live Linux distro. This is a fairly inexpensive
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I don't have any SCSI drive on my computer, but it is a SATA drive and
                                    showed up as an sda when I was using a Live Linux distro. This is a
                                    fairly inexpensive $400 Gateway about a year old with Intel Pentium 516
                                    running at 2.93 GHz.

                                    My understanding may be imperfect, but I had thought that SATA drives
                                    are really IDE drives, but when they went to the serial technology, they
                                    used the term PATA (parallel version) for IDE.

                                    Is it possible that SATA drives show up an sda drive, or is this
                                    peculiar to my equipment?

                                    73,

                                    Rick, KV9U


                                    Rick Kunath wrote:

                                    >
                                    >SCSI drives show up as sd(x).
                                    >
                                    >Some motherboards use SATA drives in IDE emulation mode, so that's
                                    >another thing to think about.
                                    >
                                    >And some motherboard's RAID emulation in software (i.e. not real RAID)
                                    >doesn't work in Linux, thankfully most have a real hardware RAID
                                    >controller as a second controller.
                                    >
                                    >Rick Kunath
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Rick Kunath
                                    ... Yep, SCSI, SATA and USB drives show up as sd(x) with the exact alpha replacing the (x) depending on the order that Linux sees the drives. (P)ATA drives
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      KV9U wrote:

                                      > I don't have any SCSI drive on my computer, but it is a SATA drive and
                                      > showed up as an sda when I was using a Live Linux distro. This is a
                                      > fairly inexpensive $400 Gateway about a year old with Intel Pentium 516
                                      > running at 2.93 GHz.

                                      Yep, SCSI, SATA and USB drives show up as sd(x) with the exact alpha
                                      replacing the (x) depending on the order that Linux sees the drives.

                                      (P)ATA drives show up as hd(x).

                                      > My understanding may be imperfect, but I had thought that SATA drives
                                      > are really IDE drives,

                                      Yes. IDE = Integrated Drive Electronics, EIDE = Enhanced Integrated
                                      Drive Electronics. All hard drives are EIDE drives these days.

                                      > but when they went to the serial technology, they
                                      > used the term PATA (parallel version) for IDE.

                                      Yep.

                                      SATA drives can also appear to an OS as an IDE drive ( hda(x) ) if the
                                      motherboard supports SATA IDE emulation and this is enabled in the BIOS.

                                      Rick Kunath
                                    • Jerry W
                                      Rick, The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit, 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is what I ment, it
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Rick,

                                        The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
                                        2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
                                        what I ment, it is 150 G.
                                        I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
                                        BootMagic for dual boot.
                                        So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
                                        installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.

                                        Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
                                        that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
                                        for Linux swap on the IDE drive.

                                        Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
                                        No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
                                        Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
                                        boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.

                                        Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
                                        set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
                                        for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.

                                        What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
                                        drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.

                                        So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive, and set GRUB for
                                        boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
                                        right into Windows.

                                        Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
                                        to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
                                        about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
                                        step of the install.

                                        Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
                                        let me delete or format that drive.

                                        Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
                                        Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
                                        and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
                                        why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.

                                        Yes I created a 1kb FAT32 partition for BootMagic on the SATA drive, I
                                        thought the boot record was there?

                                        My head hurts, going to go play on the radio for a while. 20 meter PSK
                                        looks like there is some activity there.

                                        Jerry - K0HZI




                                        On 2/6/07, KV9U <mrfarm@...> wrote:
                                        > I don't have any SCSI drive on my computer, but it is a SATA drive and
                                        > showed up as an sda when I was using a Live Linux distro. This is a
                                        > fairly inexpensive $400 Gateway about a year old with Intel Pentium 516
                                        > running at 2.93 GHz.
                                        >
                                        > My understanding may be imperfect, but I had thought that SATA drives
                                        > are really IDE drives, but when they went to the serial technology, they
                                        > used the term PATA (parallel version) for IDE.
                                        >
                                        > Is it possible that SATA drives show up an sda drive, or is this
                                        > peculiar to my equipment?
                                        >
                                        > 73,
                                        >
                                        > Rick, KV9U
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Rick Kunath wrote:
                                        >
                                        > >
                                        > >SCSI drives show up as sd(x).
                                        > >
                                        > >Some motherboards use SATA drives in IDE emulation mode, so that's
                                        > >another thing to think about.
                                        > >
                                        > >And some motherboard's RAID emulation in software (i.e. not real RAID)
                                        > >doesn't work in Linux, thankfully most have a real hardware RAID
                                        > >controller as a second controller.
                                        > >
                                        > >Rick Kunath
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Jerry W
                                        Using part of Knoppix Hack #54, Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot Record SAVE THE MBR knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Using part of Knoppix Hack #54, Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot
                                          Record "SAVE THE MBR"

                                          knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda
                                          of=/home/knoppix/mbr_backup bs=512 count=1

                                          That is where I see the sda MBR 724 byte file, I see no 512 byte
                                          file, the file is in binary so only can read it with a binary editor.
                                          I looked at the file with the binary editor, but it is all like zeros
                                          and ones and some other symbols I don't understand, so I left it as
                                          is, di not make any changes. Did not put that sda MBR file on a CD or
                                          floppy as I figured it would not be correct.

                                          Jerry - K0HZI
                                        • Joe Barr
                                          Sounds like GRUB and BootMagic both want to run things. I would use GRUB and forget BootMagic, if that s possible, because I know GRUB easily handles
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Sounds like GRUB and BootMagic both want to run things. I would use
                                            GRUB and forget BootMagic, if that's possible, because I know GRUB
                                            easily handles dual-booting, and I don't have a clue as to what
                                            BootMagic can or can't do.

                                            Joe



                                            On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 10:32 -0600, Jerry W wrote:
                                            > Rick,
                                            >
                                            > The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
                                            > 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
                                            > what I ment, it is 150 G.
                                            > I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
                                            > BootMagic for dual boot.
                                            > So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
                                            > installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.
                                            >
                                            > Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
                                            > that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
                                            > for Linux swap on the IDE drive.
                                            >
                                            > Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
                                            > No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
                                            > Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
                                            > boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.
                                            >
                                            > Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
                                            > set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
                                            > for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.
                                            >
                                            > What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
                                            > drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.
                                            >
                                            > So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive, and set GRUB for
                                            > boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
                                            > right into Windows.
                                            >
                                            > Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
                                            > to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
                                            > about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
                                            > step of the install.
                                            >
                                            > Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
                                            > let me delete or format that drive.
                                            >
                                            > Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
                                            > Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
                                            > and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
                                            > why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.
                                            >
                                            > Yes I created a 1kb FAT32 partition for BootMagic on the SATA drive, I
                                            > thought the boot record was there?
                                            >
                                            > My head hurts, going to go play on the radio for a while. 20 meter PSK
                                            > looks like there is some activity there.
                                            >
                                            > Jerry - K0HZI
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On 2/6/07, KV9U <mrfarm@...> wrote:
                                            > > I don't have any SCSI drive on my computer, but it is a SATA drive and
                                            > > showed up as an sda when I was using a Live Linux distro. This is a
                                            > > fairly inexpensive $400 Gateway about a year old with Intel Pentium 516
                                            > > running at 2.93 GHz.
                                            > >
                                            > > My understanding may be imperfect, but I had thought that SATA drives
                                            > > are really IDE drives, but when they went to the serial technology, they
                                            > > used the term PATA (parallel version) for IDE.
                                            > >
                                            > > Is it possible that SATA drives show up an sda drive, or is this
                                            > > peculiar to my equipment?
                                            > >
                                            > > 73,
                                            > >
                                            > > Rick, KV9U
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Rick Kunath wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >SCSI drives show up as sd(x).
                                            > > >
                                            > > >Some motherboards use SATA drives in IDE emulation mode, so that's
                                            > > >another thing to think about.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >And some motherboard's RAID emulation in software (i.e. not real RAID)
                                            > > >doesn't work in Linux, thankfully most have a real hardware RAID
                                            > > >controller as a second controller.
                                            > > >
                                            > > >Rick Kunath
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • Joe Barr
                                            ps: Yes, SATA drives are identified, as SDA, SDB, etc.
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              ps: Yes, SATA drives are identified, as SDA, SDB, etc.

                                              On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 11:09 -0600, Joe Barr wrote:
                                              > Sounds like GRUB and BootMagic both want to run things. I would use
                                              > GRUB and forget BootMagic, if that's possible, because I know GRUB
                                              > easily handles dual-booting, and I don't have a clue as to what
                                              > BootMagic can or can't do.
                                              >
                                              > Joe
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > On Tue, 2007-02-06 at 10:32 -0600, Jerry W wrote:
                                              > > Rick,
                                              > >
                                              > > The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
                                              > > 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
                                              > > what I ment, it is 150 G.
                                              > > I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
                                              > > BootMagic for dual boot.
                                              > > So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
                                              > > installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.
                                              > >
                                              > > Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
                                              > > that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
                                              > > for Linux swap on the IDE drive.
                                              > >
                                              > > Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
                                              > > No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
                                              > > Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
                                              > > boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.
                                              > >
                                              > > Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
                                              > > set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
                                              > > for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.
                                              > >
                                              > > What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
                                              > > drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.
                                              > >
                                              > > So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive, and set GRUB for
                                              > > boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
                                              > > right into Windows.
                                              > >
                                              > > Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
                                              > > to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
                                              > > about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
                                              > > step of the install.
                                              > >
                                              > > Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
                                              > > let me delete or format that drive.
                                              > >
                                              > > Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
                                              > > Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
                                              > > and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
                                              > > why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.
                                              > >
                                              > > Yes I created a 1kb FAT32 partition for BootMagic on the SATA drive, I
                                              > > thought the boot record was there?
                                              > >
                                              > > My head hurts, going to go play on the radio for a while. 20 meter PSK
                                              > > looks like there is some activity there.
                                              > >
                                              > > Jerry - K0HZI
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > On 2/6/07, KV9U <mrfarm@...> wrote:
                                              > > > I don't have any SCSI drive on my computer, but it is a SATA drive and
                                              > > > showed up as an sda when I was using a Live Linux distro. This is a
                                              > > > fairly inexpensive $400 Gateway about a year old with Intel Pentium 516
                                              > > > running at 2.93 GHz.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > My understanding may be imperfect, but I had thought that SATA drives
                                              > > > are really IDE drives, but when they went to the serial technology, they
                                              > > > used the term PATA (parallel version) for IDE.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Is it possible that SATA drives show up an sda drive, or is this
                                              > > > peculiar to my equipment?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > 73,
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Rick, KV9U
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Rick Kunath wrote:
                                              > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >SCSI drives show up as sd(x).
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >Some motherboards use SATA drives in IDE emulation mode, so that's
                                              > > > >another thing to think about.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >And some motherboard's RAID emulation in software (i.e. not real RAID)
                                              > > > >doesn't work in Linux, thankfully most have a real hardware RAID
                                              > > > >controller as a second controller.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >Rick Kunath
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • Rick Kunath
                                              Comments inline... ... You mean megs here, gigs, or really 1k on the FAT32 partition?? I run XOSL in a 2 GB partition at the beginning of the first drive, not
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Comments inline...

                                                Jerry W wrote:
                                                > The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
                                                > 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
                                                > what I ment, it is 150 G.
                                                > I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
                                                > BootMagic for dual boot.
                                                > So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
                                                > installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.

                                                You mean megs here, gigs, or really 1k on the FAT32 partition?? I run
                                                XOSL in a 2 GB partition at the beginning of the first drive, not
                                                because it needs that much space, but I have a copy of DOS7 there for
                                                the stuff I need now and then that needs it.

                                                > Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
                                                > that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
                                                > for Linux swap on the IDE drive.

                                                2 GB swap, maybe?

                                                > Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
                                                > No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
                                                > Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
                                                > boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.
                                                >
                                                > Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
                                                > set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
                                                > for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.

                                                So it (BM) installed itself into the IDE drive MBR too, right? Except
                                                that's where you had Linux install it's bootloader, which is likely gone
                                                now. If you installed GRUB in the MBR of the IDE drive you should have
                                                had BM chain to the second drive's MBR. If you put GRUB in the root
                                                sector of the Linux boot partition, then you should have seen another
                                                copy of BM on the MBR and chained from there to GRUB in Linux boot
                                                partition. My head is spinning just thinking about this :)

                                                > What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
                                                > drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.

                                                Did it ever?

                                                > So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive

                                                From where on the drive, exactly?

                                                > and set GRUB for
                                                > boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
                                                > right into Windows.

                                                It's not there on the MBR then. Did you get it installed on the IDE MBR
                                                or the SATA MBR?

                                                > Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
                                                > to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
                                                > about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
                                                > step of the install.
                                                >
                                                > Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
                                                > let me delete or format that drive.
                                                >
                                                > Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
                                                > Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
                                                > and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
                                                > why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.

                                                BM likely installed an extended MBR. Bad form, and one of the reasons
                                                why I don't like any boot manager that messes with the standard MBR.
                                                (XOSL doesn't, it uses space on the FAT32 partition it lives in as extra
                                                space rather than messing up the MBR with an extended non-standard MBR.
                                                It also stores copies of any MBR changes so you can go back and unscrew
                                                any errors later.) But I don't think you need it, or any other boot
                                                manager than GRUB.

                                                So we have a few things we know...

                                                Windows boots OK from the SATA drive when it is set to boot.

                                                We don't know what the state of the MBR on the SATA drive is, do we? Is
                                                this a non-standard MBR now, or have you reverted it back to standard?

                                                If it isn't a standard MBR, find out from PowerQuest how to get it back
                                                to standard.

                                                When you do that, you'll be pre-Boot Magic and OK on the standard
                                                Windows install on the SATA drive. I'd fire up the Windows recovery
                                                console and do a fixboot and fixmbr to be sure I had a standard MBR and
                                                restored boot sequence on the SATA drive.

                                                We know you have an extended MBR on the second drive. This has to be
                                                corrected. Once you do that, delete all of the partitions on the second
                                                drive.

                                                Next, we need to know if your distro supports SATA drives, and if so,
                                                does it support your SATA controller? Not all are supported? What
                                                exactly is your SATA controller? (Look it up on Windows in the device
                                                manager.) We need to know if it is supported or not. If not, that would
                                                explain why you couldn't get GRUB in the SATA drive's MBR.

                                                See where you are at with these things...

                                                I don't know about U/Kubuntu installs in general, but on a Mandriva 2007
                                                install, you'd follow the bouncing ball, pick a drive, defer to default
                                                partitioning or create your own, the installer would handle the moving,
                                                re-sizing, formatting, then move to the pick-your-packages or accept the
                                                default stage. You can move backwards and forwards in the install
                                                process, as well as get context related help on every step explaining
                                                everything, your options, how to choose, etc. After that watch the
                                                blinky lights as everything gets installed. Then on to some quick tests
                                                of hardware, some quick network config, ask you where to install the
                                                bootloader and which one you want (default lilo, or GRUB), and reboot to
                                                see the lilo screen offering you your choice of Windows or Linux. Click
                                                Linux and start playing.

                                                If I had to guess, using BM is a big part of why you are having so much
                                                trouble with this...

                                                Rick Kunath
                                              • Jerry W
                                                Symantic which now owns PartitionMagic and BootMagic advised that if I made a Rescue Disk on a floppy disk , ( I did) to use that to choose the boot sector.
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Symantic which now owns PartitionMagic and BootMagic advised that if
                                                  I made a Rescue Disk on a floppy disk , ( I did) to use that to choose
                                                  the boot sector. Only the NTFS drive shows and no Linux to boot to.

                                                  I guess the only way is to reinstall Windows XP Pro, or leave every
                                                  thing alone, forget about using Linux.

                                                  I tried to install Kubuntu on the SATA drive with a 21,006.09 MB
                                                  partiton for ext3 for Linux,
                                                  and a Linux swap 1004.1 MB partition.

                                                  Kubuntu did not want to install there either, kept saying there was an
                                                  error and took me back to step one. Also tried Simply Mepis, I have
                                                  used that distro a lot, like it but that would not install on the SATA
                                                  drive either.

                                                  Don't know what to do, hate to loose everything on Windows XP, have 10
                                                  G of files on that drive. Could try a "repair" of Windows XP pro, but
                                                  I have done that before and it is not the same as I originally
                                                  installed.

                                                  Jerry



                                                  On 2/6/07, Rick Kunath <k9ao@...> wrote:
                                                  > Comments inline...
                                                  >
                                                  > Jerry W wrote:
                                                  > > The computer was built by local Geek shop. It is has a AMD 64 bit,
                                                  > > 2.2 Ghz, CPU on a MSI motherboard, and 1 G RAM and the SATA drive is
                                                  > > what I ment, it is 150 G.
                                                  > > I installed PartitionMagic about a week ago as I wanted to use
                                                  > > BootMagic for dual boot.
                                                  > > So I set up a 1kb FAT32 space on the SATA drive for BootMagic which I
                                                  > > installed after PartitionMagic resized the SATA drive.
                                                  >
                                                  > You mean megs here, gigs, or really 1k on the FAT32 partition?? I run
                                                  > XOSL in a 2 GB partition at the beginning of the first drive, not
                                                  > because it needs that much space, but I have a copy of DOS7 there for
                                                  > the stuff I need now and then that needs it.
                                                  >
                                                  > > Then I installed the IDE drive 40 G, BIOS says it is there and made
                                                  > > that drive the second in boot sequence. Made 38G for Linix and 2kb
                                                  > > for Linux swap on the IDE drive.
                                                  >
                                                  > 2 GB swap, maybe?
                                                  >
                                                  > > Installed or tried to install Kunbuntu 6.10 (32 bit) on the IDE drive.
                                                  > > No error messages came up on install. Then had BootMagic sequence
                                                  > > Windows XP (SATA drive) default for first boot and Linux as the second
                                                  > > boot, set BootMagic for to be enabled for both drives.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Went back to the install disk for Kubuntu, and made sure that GRUB was
                                                  > > set for root on the IDE drive, as this is what I have done in the past
                                                  > > for two hard drives but they were both IDE drives.
                                                  >
                                                  > So it (BM) installed itself into the IDE drive MBR too, right? Except
                                                  > that's where you had Linux install it's bootloader, which is likely gone
                                                  > now. If you installed GRUB in the MBR of the IDE drive you should have
                                                  > had BM chain to the second drive's MBR. If you put GRUB in the root
                                                  > sector of the Linux boot partition, then you should have seen another
                                                  > copy of BM on the MBR and chained from there to GRUB in Linux boot
                                                  > partition. My head is spinning just thinking about this :)
                                                  >
                                                  > > What may be happing is that BootMagic does not recognize the SATA
                                                  > > drive? No BootMagic GUI comes up at all.
                                                  >
                                                  > Did it ever?
                                                  >
                                                  > > So went back and and removed GRUB from the IDE drive
                                                  >
                                                  > From where on the drive, exactly?
                                                  >
                                                  > > and set GRUB for
                                                  > > boot on the MBR SATA drive. Nothing comes up on the screen, boots
                                                  > > right into Windows.
                                                  >
                                                  > It's not there on the MBR then. Did you get it installed on the IDE MBR
                                                  > or the SATA MBR?
                                                  >
                                                  > > Tried to reinstall Kubuntu over the old saying it was a new system and
                                                  > > to format the IDE drive. I kept getting an error message, something
                                                  > > about could not complete the install and would go back to the first
                                                  > > step of the install.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Now with PartitionMagic, it says the IDE drive is "bad" and will not
                                                  > > let me delete or format that drive.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Then used Knoppix, had that look at the MBR on the SATA drive.
                                                  > > Knoppix Hack said I should have a 512 bit file for the partition info
                                                  > > and the boot record. but it came up more like 724 bit file, so that is
                                                  > > why I think the MBR on the SATA drive is messed up.
                                                  >
                                                  > BM likely installed an extended MBR. Bad form, and one of the reasons
                                                  > why I don't like any boot manager that messes with the standard MBR.
                                                  > (XOSL doesn't, it uses space on the FAT32 partition it lives in as extra
                                                  > space rather than messing up the MBR with an extended non-standard MBR.
                                                  > It also stores copies of any MBR changes so you can go back and unscrew
                                                  > any errors later.) But I don't think you need it, or any other boot
                                                  > manager than GRUB.
                                                  >
                                                  > So we have a few things we know...
                                                  >
                                                  > Windows boots OK from the SATA drive when it is set to boot.
                                                  >
                                                  > We don't know what the state of the MBR on the SATA drive is, do we? Is
                                                  > this a non-standard MBR now, or have you reverted it back to standard?
                                                  >
                                                  > If it isn't a standard MBR, find out from PowerQuest how to get it back
                                                  > to standard.
                                                  >
                                                  > When you do that, you'll be pre-Boot Magic and OK on the standard
                                                  > Windows install on the SATA drive. I'd fire up the Windows recovery
                                                  > console and do a fixboot and fixmbr to be sure I had a standard MBR and
                                                  > restored boot sequence on the SATA drive.
                                                  >
                                                  > We know you have an extended MBR on the second drive. This has to be
                                                  > corrected. Once you do that, delete all of the partitions on the second
                                                  > drive.
                                                  >
                                                  > Next, we need to know if your distro supports SATA drives, and if so,
                                                  > does it support your SATA controller? Not all are supported? What
                                                  > exactly is your SATA controller? (Look it up on Windows in the device
                                                  > manager.) We need to know if it is supported or not. If not, that would
                                                  > explain why you couldn't get GRUB in the SATA drive's MBR.
                                                  >
                                                  > See where you are at with these things...
                                                  >
                                                  > I don't know about U/Kubuntu installs in general, but on a Mandriva 2007
                                                  > install, you'd follow the bouncing ball, pick a drive, defer to default
                                                  > partitioning or create your own, the installer would handle the moving,
                                                  > re-sizing, formatting, then move to the pick-your-packages or accept the
                                                  > default stage. You can move backwards and forwards in the install
                                                  > process, as well as get context related help on every step explaining
                                                  > everything, your options, how to choose, etc. After that watch the
                                                  > blinky lights as everything gets installed. Then on to some quick tests
                                                  > of hardware, some quick network config, ask you where to install the
                                                  > bootloader and which one you want (default lilo, or GRUB), and reboot to
                                                  > see the lilo screen offering you your choice of Windows or Linux. Click
                                                  > Linux and start playing.
                                                  >
                                                  > If I had to guess, using BM is a big part of why you are having so much
                                                  > trouble with this...
                                                  >
                                                  > Rick Kunath
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Rick Kunath
                                                  ... You don t want to rescue BM, you want to remove it and restore the standard MBR. You ve got to get rid of Boot Magic and get a standard MBR back. Do that
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                                                    Jerry W wrote:

                                                    > Symantic which now owns PartitionMagic and BootMagic advised that if
                                                    > I made a Rescue Disk on a floppy disk , ( I did) to use that to choose
                                                    > the boot sector. Only the NTFS drive shows and no Linux to boot to.

                                                    You don't want to rescue BM, you want to remove it and restore the
                                                    standard MBR.

                                                    You've got to get rid of Boot Magic and get a standard MBR back. Do that
                                                    first.

                                                    > I guess the only way is to reinstall Windows XP Pro, or leave every
                                                    > thing alone, forget about using Linux.

                                                    You don't need to re-install XP. What you need to do is fix the MBR.
                                                    NTLDR, the XP bootloader, is in the root sector of the Windows NTFS
                                                    partition and intact, as you can boot Windows. The code in the MBR
                                                    simply chains to NTLDR.

                                                    If you have a real XP disk or can borrow one, you can insert it, pick
                                                    "recovery console" from the choices, then issue the fixboot command
                                                    followed by the fixmbr command. This should fix the boot sequence and
                                                    write a standard MBR to the SATA drive. See if you now have a standard
                                                    MBR. After that the SATA drive is fixed.

                                                    If you have a standard MBR, it is already fixed.

                                                    > I tried to install Kubuntu on the SATA drive with a 21,006.09 MB
                                                    > partiton for ext3 for Linux,
                                                    > and a Linux swap 1004.1 MB partition.
                                                    >
                                                    > Kubuntu did not want to install there either, kept saying there was an
                                                    > error and took me back to step one. Also tried Simply Mepis, I have
                                                    > used that distro a lot, like it but that would not install on the SATA
                                                    > drive either.

                                                    I am wondering if your SATA motherboard controller is not supported in
                                                    any of the Linux versions you tried so far? What is it hardware wise?
                                                    Are you trying to do some kind of software RAID?

                                                    > Don't know what to do, hate to loose everything on Windows XP, have 10
                                                    > G of files on that drive. Could try a "repair" of Windows XP pro, but
                                                    > I have done that before and it is not the same as I originally
                                                    > installed.

                                                    You don't need to repair XP. Your issue is not with XP, but the MBR on
                                                    the SATA drive. You don't have to touch XP to fix that.

                                                    So... lets find out if you have now got a standard MBR on the SATA
                                                    drive, and what the SATA controller on your motherboard is.

                                                    Don't give up yet :)

                                                    Rick Kunath, k9ao
                                                  • Rick Kunath
                                                    ... That s because the standard 512 byte MBR was replaced with an EMBR (Extended MBR) by Boot Magic. What you need to do is restore the original standard 512
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Feb 6, 2007
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                                                      Jerry W wrote:
                                                      > Using part of Knoppix Hack #54, Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot
                                                      > Record "SAVE THE MBR"
                                                      >
                                                      > knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda
                                                      > of=/home/knoppix/mbr_backup bs=512 count=1
                                                      >
                                                      > That is where I see the sda MBR 724 byte file, I see no 512 byte
                                                      > file,

                                                      That's because the standard 512 byte MBR was replaced with an EMBR
                                                      (Extended MBR) by Boot Magic. What you need to do is restore the
                                                      original standard 512 byte MBR.


                                                      > the file is in binary so only can read it with a binary editor.
                                                      > I looked at the file with the binary editor, but it is all like zeros
                                                      > and ones and some other symbols I don't understand, so I left it as
                                                      > is, di not make any changes. Did not put that sda MBR file on a CD or
                                                      > floppy as I figured it would not be correct.

                                                      Right, it's an extended MBR, not a standard MBR. One of the bad side
                                                      effects of Boot Magic, and some other boot managers.

                                                      Did you load up your XP install disk and start the recovery console,
                                                      then issue a fixmbr command?

                                                      That'll tell Windows to replace the MBR with a standard MBR which it
                                                      will do, and then issue a fixboot command. This will set everything back
                                                      to a standard MBR and the normal Windows boor sequence.

                                                      Once you are there, worry about fixing the second drive.

                                                      Rick Kunath

                                                      >
                                                      > Jerry - K0HZI
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                    • Jerry W
                                                      Rick, Success, and thanks for all the input. Before I used the recovery console I completely removed BootMagic from the computer. Used the fixmbr command.
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Feb 7, 2007
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                                                        Rick,

                                                        Success, and thanks for all the input. Before I used the recovery
                                                        console I completely removed BootMagic from the computer. Used the
                                                        fixmbr command. Windows booted normal. Then using PartitionMagic
                                                        looked at the IDE drive and it was back to normal. So in case there
                                                        were some bad files reformatted the IDE drive then set it as a Linux
                                                        ext3 drive, the whole 40 G. Tried to install Kubuntu with GRUB on the
                                                        SATA drive, gave me an error and it did not complete the install. So
                                                        installed with GRUB on the IDE drive, that worked, switched the IDE
                                                        drive as the first boot drive, there was the menu for Kunbuntu and
                                                        Windows XP and every thing seems to be working correctly both Windows
                                                        and Kubuntu 6.10.

                                                        Before I go any further, Dave - W1HKJ if your reading this, what do I
                                                        need to install for fldigi besides the files on your site?

                                                        Thanks again for all the help for an old geezer.

                                                        Things are looking better, even got above zero yesterday for the first
                                                        time since last Friday. 12 above, but a lot better than minus 15 last
                                                        Saturday.

                                                        Jerry - K0HZI


                                                        On 2/6/07, Rick Kunath <k9ao@...> wrote:
                                                        > Jerry W wrote:
                                                        > > Using part of Knoppix Hack #54, Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot
                                                        > > Record "SAVE THE MBR"
                                                        > >
                                                        > > knoppix@ttyp0[knoppix]$ sudo dd if=/dev/sda
                                                        > > of=/home/knoppix/mbr_backup bs=512 count=1
                                                        > >
                                                        > > That is where I see the sda MBR 724 byte file, I see no 512 byte
                                                        > > file,
                                                        >
                                                        > That's because the standard 512 byte MBR was replaced with an EMBR
                                                        > (Extended MBR) by Boot Magic. What you need to do is restore the
                                                        > original standard 512 byte MBR.
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > > the file is in binary so only can read it with a binary editor.
                                                        > > I looked at the file with the binary editor, but it is all like zeros
                                                        > > and ones and some other symbols I don't understand, so I left it as
                                                        > > is, di not make any changes. Did not put that sda MBR file on a CD or
                                                        > > floppy as I figured it would not be correct.
                                                        >
                                                        > Right, it's an extended MBR, not a standard MBR. One of the bad side
                                                        > effects of Boot Magic, and some other boot managers.
                                                        >
                                                        > Did you load up your XP install disk and start the recovery console,
                                                        > then issue a fixmbr command?
                                                        >
                                                        > That'll tell Windows to replace the MBR with a standard MBR which it
                                                        > will do, and then issue a fixboot command. This will set everything back
                                                        > to a standard MBR and the normal Windows boor sequence.
                                                        >
                                                        > Once you are there, worry about fixing the second drive.
                                                        >
                                                        > Rick Kunath
                                                        >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Jerry - K0HZI
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        > >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                      • Rick Kunath
                                                        ... Excellent news Jerry! And a good lesson for us all as to third-party bootloaders like Boot Magic and why using them might not be such a good idea. Also on
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Feb 7, 2007
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Jerry W wrote:
                                                          > Rick,
                                                          >
                                                          > Success, and thanks for all the input. Before I used the recovery
                                                          > console I completely removed BootMagic from the computer. Used the
                                                          > fixmbr command. Windows booted normal. Then using PartitionMagic
                                                          > looked at the IDE drive and it was back to normal. So in case there
                                                          > were some bad files reformatted the IDE drive then set it as a Linux
                                                          > ext3 drive, the whole 40 G. Tried to install Kubuntu with GRUB on the
                                                          > SATA drive, gave me an error and it did not complete the install. So
                                                          > installed with GRUB on the IDE drive, that worked, switched the IDE
                                                          > drive as the first boot drive, there was the menu for Kunbuntu and
                                                          > Windows XP and every thing seems to be working correctly both Windows
                                                          > and Kubuntu 6.10.

                                                          Excellent news Jerry!

                                                          And a good lesson for us all as to third-party bootloaders like Boot
                                                          Magic and why using them might not be such a good idea. Also on why
                                                          using Partition Magic or any cylinder-boundary limited partitioning tool
                                                          is a bad idea with Linux. Glad you got it sorted out.

                                                          I suspect that your distro does not fully support the SATA drive
                                                          controller chipset and that is why you can't install GRUB on it. If
                                                          anyone is looking to use a drive like this, make sure that the
                                                          motherboard chipset is supported, and know whether you have to set the
                                                          SATA drive controller to IDE emulation before formatting or can use it
                                                          as an SATA drive.

                                                          Your solution of booting the second drive first is a good one.

                                                          Rick Kunath, k9ao
                                                        • KV9U
                                                          Are you saying that no Linux distibution can support SATA drives directly and always need you to change the drive controller to IDE emulation? Aren t most all
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Feb 7, 2007
                                                          • 0 Attachment
                                                            Are you saying that no Linux distibution can support SATA drives
                                                            directly and always need you to change the drive controller to IDE
                                                            emulation?

                                                            Aren't most all computers made in the past few years using SATA drives?

                                                            Rick, KV9U



                                                            Rick Kunath wrote:

                                                            >And a good lesson for us all as to third-party bootloaders like Boot
                                                            >Magic and why using them might not be such a good idea. Also on why
                                                            >using Partition Magic or any cylinder-boundary limited partitioning tool
                                                            >is a bad idea with Linux. Glad you got it sorted out.
                                                            >
                                                            >I suspect that your distro does not fully support the SATA drive
                                                            >controller chipset and that is why you can't install GRUB on it. If
                                                            >anyone is looking to use a drive like this, make sure that the
                                                            >motherboard chipset is supported, and know whether you have to set the
                                                            >SATA drive controller to IDE emulation before formatting or can use it
                                                            >as an SATA drive.
                                                            >
                                                            >Your solution of booting the second drive first is a good one.
                                                            >
                                                            >Rick Kunath, k9ao
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                            >
                                                          • Rick Kunath
                                                            ... Nope. Lots of SATA controllers are supported directly, of those that are, some are not supported using SATA software RAID, but since software raid isn t
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Feb 7, 2007
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                                                              KV9U wrote:
                                                              > Are you saying that no Linux distibution can support SATA drives
                                                              > directly and always need you to change the drive controller to IDE
                                                              > emulation?

                                                              Nope.

                                                              Lots of SATA controllers are supported directly, of those that are, some
                                                              are not supported using SATA software RAID, but since software raid
                                                              isn't really RAID anyway, it isn't important.

                                                              Sometimes when a controller isn't supported by SATA drivers on a distro,
                                                              the drive can still be used using IDE emulation.

                                                              It's better to buy supported hardware and make sure you don't have
                                                              compatibility issues with your particular distro choice. On Mandriva
                                                              2007 most SATA drives work just fine in native SATA mode. But there are
                                                              so many SATA controller chipsets out there, you need to be sure the
                                                              chipset is supported by the kernel drivers. It isn't as universal as IDE
                                                              support quite yet.

                                                              Rick Kunath, k9ao
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