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why not transmitting RxId all the time?

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  • vito49swl
    Hello, I m only a short-wave listener, I picked up the hobby again after a break of at least 10 years, at the moment without my own receiver or antenna .. I
    Message 1 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013
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      Hello, I'm only a short-wave listener, I picked up the hobby again after a break of at least 10 years, at the moment without my own receiver or antenna .. I now use web-sdr, most of the time with the sdr-stations from the Netherlands because they are closest to my home.
      I also use Fldigi and I'm a huge fan on this program.

      But I wonder why ham-people when transmitting digital, why they don't use the RXID. As far as I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) this is a possibility to send the ID of the used mode along with the data, so on receivers end the mode can be easily recognised and even set by the decoder.
      Up to now none of all I followed did .... I wonder why.
      OK, it seems to have something to do with bandwidth, but I can hardly believe this is the case. As I see it: such an ID can't be an amount of data, certainly not with nowadays techniques ...
      Please can somebody explain why so few (not to say nobody) sends out the mode ID? Or am I completely wrong about this?

      vito49swl
    • mwrenn@sbcglobal.net
      Hello Vito, I can t speak for everyone, but from myself, I was unaware of the TXID for quite awhile. It is not turned on by default, and for the
      Message 2 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013
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        Hello Vito,

        I can't speak for everyone, but from myself, I was unaware of the TXID for quite awhile. It is not turned on by default, and for the average/casual user, they may never know that it is there unless they start poking around and looking into all of the extra features that fldigi offers.

        My TXID/RXID is now on when I operate (o:

        Michael - K5WRN

        --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, "vito49swl" <vito.linux@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello, I'm only a short-wave listener, I picked up the hobby again after a break of at least 10 years, at the moment without my own receiver or antenna .. I now use web-sdr, most of the time with the sdr-stations from the Netherlands because they are closest to my home.
        > I also use Fldigi and I'm a huge fan on this program.
        >
        > But I wonder why ham-people when transmitting digital, why they don't use the RXID. As far as I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) this is a possibility to send the ID of the used mode along with the data, so on receivers end the mode can be easily recognised and even set by the decoder.
        > Up to now none of all I followed did .... I wonder why.
        > OK, it seems to have something to do with bandwidth, but I can hardly believe this is the case. As I see it: such an ID can't be an amount of data, certainly not with nowadays techniques ...
        > Please can somebody explain why so few (not to say nobody) sends out the mode ID? Or am I completely wrong about this?
        >
        > vito49swl
        >
      • Steve
        Speaking for myself and not Amateurs as a whole... I send ID a lot when I m using a mode that is not standard. On many frequencies there is a pre-agreed upon
        Message 3 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013
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          Speaking for myself and not Amateurs as a whole...

          I send ID a lot when I'm using a mode that is not standard.

          On many frequencies there is a pre-agreed upon mode that everyone uses.
          If someone uses something else then there is often an ID.

          Also, If I am chatting with someone who I know, with a pre-agreed upon mode,
          then I don't use it either because I don't care who hears me.

          Therefore I only use an ID is when I'm calling CQ on a strange frequency and a strange mode....

          This is of course rare so you don't hear Id's that often.

          Also after a while one get's to recognize the mode from how it looks on the waterfall and doesn't need the ID...

          That being said I like the ID's but just don't seem to need them much.

          Steve
          KK4NNH

          On Jun 27, 2013, at 4:28 AM, vito49swl <vito.linux@...> wrote:

          > Hello, I'm only a short-wave listener, I picked up the hobby again after a break of at least 10 years, at the moment without my own receiver or antenna .. I now use web-sdr, most of the time with the sdr-stations from the Netherlands because they are closest to my home.
          > I also use Fldigi and I'm a huge fan on this program.
          >
          > But I wonder why ham-people when transmitting digital, why they don't use the RXID. As far as I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) this is a possibility to send the ID of the used mode along with the data, so on receivers end the mode can be easily recognised and even set by the decoder.
          > Up to now none of all I followed did .... I wonder why.
          > OK, it seems to have something to do with bandwidth, but I can hardly believe this is the case. As I see it: such an ID can't be an amount of data, certainly not with nowadays techniques ...
          > Please can somebody explain why so few (not to say nobody) sends out the mode ID? Or am I completely wrong about this?
          >
          > vito49swl
          >
          >
        • David
          RsID is not usually transmitted for these modes: PSK-31 RTTY (45.45 baud Baudot) MFSK-16 OLIVIA-8-500 Because these are considered the default for a particular
          Message 4 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013
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            RsID is not usually transmitted for these modes:

            PSK-31
            RTTY (45.45 baud Baudot)
            MFSK-16
            OLIVIA-8-500

            Because these are considered the default for a particular mode. 99.999% of the users can recognize these modes by sight and sound.

            http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.21/Modes/index.htm

            I suggest that you become so familiar with the signature of these modes that you can identify them without relying on RsID.

            fldigi provides the facility to selectively transmit RsID by mode and also selectively ignore RsID by mode.

            BTW if every op transmitted RsID for PSK-31 it would create chaos on a digital sub-band such as 14.070 MHz. In fact, transmitting RsID for PSK-31 is considered the sign of an uninformed operator. One should avoid doing that unless there are operational reasons for doing so.

            73, Dave, W1HKJ
          • Ron Wenig
            Vito, I guess the problem with leaving it on all of the time is for PSK31 it would constantly change your frequency if you have AFC on and you receive a RxID
            Message 5 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013
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              Vito,

              I guess the problem with leaving it on all of the time is for PSK31 it would constantly change your frequency if you have AFC on and you receive a RxID from a PSK station.  For the other exotic modes, like MT63 or THOR, it definitely should be on because of their limited use. 

              73, Ron ny3j


              --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, "vito49swl" <vito.linux@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello, I'm only a short-wave listener, I picked up the hobby again after a break of at least 10 years, at the moment without my own receiver or antenna .. I now use web-sdr, most of the time with the sdr-stations from the Netherlands because they are closest to my home.
              > I also use Fldigi and I'm a huge fan on this program.
              >
              > But I wonder why ham-people when transmitting digital, why they don't use the RXID. As far as I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) this is a possibility to send the ID of the used mode along with the data, so on receivers end the mode can be easily recognised and even set by the decoder.
              > Up to now none of all I followed did .... I wonder why.
              > OK, it seems to have something to do with bandwidth, but I can hardly believe this is the case. As I see it: such an ID can't be an amount of data, certainly not with nowadays techniques ...
              > Please can somebody explain why so few (not to say nobody) sends out the mode ID? Or am I completely wrong about this?
              >
              > vito49swl
              >



            • Brian Lloyd
              ... Well, it is impossible to tell the difference between Olivia and Contestia by sight and sound. Also only those who are very familiar can tell the
              Message 6 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013
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                On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 8:40 AM, David <w1hkj@...> wrote:
                 

                RsID is not usually transmitted for these modes:

                PSK-31
                RTTY (45.45 baud Baudot)
                MFSK-16
                OLIVIA-8-500

                Because these are considered the default for a particular mode. 99.999% of the users can recognize these modes by sight and sound.


                Well, it is impossible to tell the difference between Olivia and Contestia by sight and sound. Also only those who are very familiar can tell the differences between many of the other mFSK modes, e.g. MFSK16, Olivia, DominoEX, Thor, etc. Others, not so much.

                So, yes, I believe sending RSID for modes other than PSK31 and 2FSK 45 (RTTY) by default would improve the operating experience for new operators AND it would foster use of other modes than PSK31 and RTTY since there would be more likelihood of a successful first contact using the other modes.

                --
                Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
                706 Flightline Drive
                Spring Branch, TX 78070
                brian@...
                +1.916.877.5067 (USA)
              • mwrenn@sbcglobal.net
                Thanks Dave, excellent info. I ll go back and check my settings. No need to contribute to the chaos on the bands (o: Michael - K5WRN
                Message 7 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013
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                  Thanks Dave, excellent info. I'll go back and check my settings. No need to contribute to the chaos on the bands (o:

                  Michael - K5WRN

                  --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, "David" <w1hkj@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > RsID is not usually transmitted for these modes:
                  >
                  > PSK-31
                  > RTTY (45.45 baud Baudot)
                  > MFSK-16
                  > OLIVIA-8-500
                  >
                  > Because these are considered the default for a particular mode. 99.999% of the users can recognize these modes by sight and sound.
                  >
                  > http://www.w1hkj.com/FldigiHelp-3.21/Modes/index.htm
                  >
                  > I suggest that you become so familiar with the signature of these modes that you can identify them without relying on RsID.
                  >
                  > fldigi provides the facility to selectively transmit RsID by mode and also selectively ignore RsID by mode.
                  >
                  > BTW if every op transmitted RsID for PSK-31 it would create chaos on a digital sub-band such as 14.070 MHz. In fact, transmitting RsID for PSK-31 is considered the sign of an uninformed operator. One should avoid doing that unless there are operational reasons for doing so.
                  >
                  > 73, Dave, W1HKJ
                  >
                • Bob Snyder
                  RsID is nice and I agree with all that you said, but there is another method of mode ID that folks should be aware of: Video ID shows your mode graphically in
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jun 27, 2013
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                    RsID is nice and I agree with all that you said, but there is another method of mode ID that folks should be aware of: Video ID shows your mode graphically in the waterfall at the beginning of each transmission. It may not be as robust as RsID, but it doesn't mess with your tuning, and requires nothing on the receiving side to decode it - only your eyeballs. I expect a lot of digi-mode users have never seen or used it.

                    Bob W6CP


                    On 06/27/2013 06:49 AM, Brian Lloyd wrote:
                    On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 8:40 AM, David <w1hkj@...> wrote:
                     

                    RsID is not usually transmitted for these modes:

                    PSK-31
                    RTTY (45.45 baud Baudot)
                    MFSK-16
                    OLIVIA-8-500

                    Because these are considered the default for a particular mode. 99.999% of the users can recognize these modes by sight and sound.


                    Well, it is impossible to tell the difference between Olivia and Contestia by sight and sound. Also only those who are very familiar can tell the differences between many of the other mFSK modes, e.g. MFSK16, Olivia, DominoEX, Thor, etc. Others, not so much.

                    So, yes, I believe sending RSID for modes other than PSK31 and 2FSK 45 (RTTY) by default would improve the operating experience for new operators AND it would foster use of other modes than PSK31 and RTTY since there would be more likelihood of a successful first contact using the other modes.

                    --
                    Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
                    706 Flightline Drive
                    Spring Branch, TX 78070
                    brian@...
                    +1.916.877.5067 (USA)

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