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Re: [linuxham] Re: [Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO] Re: NEWBIE: FROM SW MIAMI, FL LOOKING FOR MENTOR.

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  • Rick Stanback
    Juan, I also own a PI and tried to do some audio processing with it. I found that the hardware architecture and processor speed was just not adequate for
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 21, 2013
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      Juan,
      I also own a PI and tried to do some audio processing with it. I found
      that the hardware architecture and processor speed was just not adequate
      for intense audio processing. The IO structure appears to be a
      bottleneck. I also used a powered hub and did all the compiler
      optimizations for ARMv7. The end result was the processed audio was
      over a second behind real time. I have read that you can slow down the
      ethernet port to 10m and that helps but I basically just gave up and use
      the PI for an XBMC frontend. I think it still has a place for what it
      was designed for, a basic linux system for teaching.


      On Sun, 2013-04-21 at 11:30 +0000, JUAN A. GRANADOS wrote:
      >
      > Thank you Jeff!
      >
      > I am am an Extra FCC Radio Amateur and also and also the holder and
      > operator of an Experimental FCC License to operate in MF and LF.
      >
      > I made the original posting. I Am the NEWBIE FROM SW MIAMI after
      > purchasing the Pi for two reasons:
      >
      > 1. to try to learn the Linux OS. I tried to install Debian on Virtual
      > Box on my Windows 7 machine, and I am stuck in the install page... in
      > the process I messed up (erased) a 250GB external HDD while trying to
      > do the install.
      >
      > 2. with curiosity about possible applications of the Pi in my
      > experiments in the MF and LF bands and in SDR Software defined Radio.
      >
      > I also tried to make the Pi do as many things as possible with what I
      > do with the Windows 7 OS machine, Internet, word processing, etc. I
      > NEVER was able to get sound out of it, nor watch a youtube film,
      > although connected via HDMI to my monitor. Succeeded in connecting to
      > network via wifi usb dongle and using keyboard/mouse via usb wifi
      > dongle.
      >
      > Everyone here tells you about ..."google it"... but where are the real
      > teachers?
      >
      > So the Pi, is just another curious gadget which , maybe someday will
      > have use.
      >
      > Thanks all!
      >
      > 73
      >
      > Juan /K4LCD - WF2XXQ
      >
      >
      > On 04/20/2013 10:27 PM, Jeff Francis™ wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > I think the single biggest problem I'm seeing here is taking
      > > things in order. If you're a linux newbie, your task is not to
      > > learn how to do radio tasks on a Raspberry Pi. Your task is to
      > > learn Linux. Forget the Pi, start by learning linux. How it
      > > works. Why it works. Why it is the way it is. Learn it on a
      > > virtual machine, a dual-booted machine, a dedicated machine, or on
      > > the Pi itself, it doesn't matter. To a degree that matters to the
      > > newcomer, they're all the same. Learn one of the eleventy flavors
      > > of linux, AT&T System V, or FreeBSD. Again, to the raw newbie, it
      > > doesn't matter, they're essentially the same. But start by learning
      > > linux before you worry about what you're going to *DO* with linux.
      > > Only then is there a point in learning how to solve specific
      > > problems. Like packet radio networking. Or interfacing hardware to
      > > the Pi.
      > >
      > >
      > > Much of the discussion to date goes something like this:
      > >
      > >
      > > "How do I get to the supermarket to buy beer?"
      > >
      > >
      > > "Drive north down Elm Street, turn right on Mulberry, and it's on
      > > your left. Here, you can borrow my car, but it's a 5-speed, can you
      > > drive a stick?"
      > >
      > >
      > > "I've only ever ridden a bicycle, can you teach me how to drive?"
      > >
      > >
      > > Nothing whatsoever wrong with that. Nothing. Zero. We all
      > > started there. But there's a progression of steps that need to be
      > > followed. Learn how to steer. How to shift. How to buy gas. What
      > > the laws are. How to navigate streets. How to deal with other
      > > drivers. Rights-of-way. Those are all tasks that need to be
      > > learned before you attack the problem of buying your beer. Learn to
      > > drive before you worry about making trips to the store.
      > >
      > >
      > > You also need to understand who you're asking questions of. If
      > > you ask Michael Schumacher how to turn left, you'll get a discussion
      > > involving traction, tire temperature, humidity, mass, speed, and
      > > strategy for blocking the guy behind you while you're doing all of
      > > this. If you ask my 16-year-old son (who just learned to drive in
      > > the last few months), you'll get an answer that involves slowing
      > > down, looking for traffic, and turning the steering wheel carefully
      > > to the left while keeping an eye on the other cars in the
      > > intersection. My son's answer will be far more useful to a
      > > non-driver than Michael Schumacher's. Not because Michael is a
      > > pretentious ass or is unwilling to help, but because he learned to
      > > drive so long ago and drives at a completely different level than
      > > most that all of those low-level tasks have been abstracted to the
      > > point that not only does he not realize he's even doing them, he'd
      > > probably have trouble explaining the details and remembering what it
      > > was like to learn it. And so it is with the expert Unix/Linux/BSD
      > > user answering questions from the most basic beginner. To him,
      > > "edit this file" is akin to telling a typical driver to "turn
      > > left". The fact that he doesn't explain each vi keystroke to the
      > > beginner is not arrogance, it's that it never even occurs to him
      > > that this is a skill, as it's long been pushed to his subconscious
      > > skill set.
      > >
      > >
      > > There are plenty of mentors here. There are plenty of people who
      > > are more than willing to help. I am one of them. But bear in mind
      > > that who you ask (ie, how many years of experience) will affect the
      > > answers you receive, and the assumptions made about what is and is
      > > not automatic for you. How you ask will equally affect the
      > > answers. Here's an example:
      > >
      > >
      > > Q: "How do I add an alias for a host so I don't have to keep typing
      > > the IP address?"
      > >
      > >
      > > And here's a series of answers I might give, depending on the
      > > assumptions I make about your skillset (and/or how you ask the
      > > question, and/or how long I have available to type the response):
      > >
      > >
      > > A: "Stick it in DNS." or maybe "Stick it in hosts."
      > >
      > >
      > > A: "Add it to /etc/hosts"
      > >
      > >
      > > A: "Edit your /etc/hosts file and put it at the bottom in the same
      > > format as the entries already there."
      > >
      > >
      > > A: "Open a terminal make sure you have nano installed. Type 'which
      > > nano' and see if you get a result. If you don't, type 'sudo apt-get
      > > install nano', then enter your password and answer 'y' to the
      > > question (if there is one). Then type 'sudo nano /etc/hosts'. When
      > > the file opens, use your down arrow key until you get to the bottom
      > > of the file..." (you can see how this would go on for about two
      > > more pages).
      > >
      > >
      > > They're all right answers, they're all useful answers, they come
      > > from different sources and are targeted at different skill sets.
      > > The first answer is akin to "Down the street on the left." The
      > > last answer is "Let me teach you how to drive." There's only so
      > > many hours in a day for hobbies, and just like every newbie doesn't
      > > have infinite time to learn linux, every expert doesn't have
      > > infinite time to teach it to you. But there is undoubtedly a middle
      > > ground. Take a little responsibility. Buy a book on Linux. Forget
      > > you're trying to do ham radio networking, and learn to use the tool
      > > between you and that goal first, before you try to use it. Like any
      > > power tool, there's a learning curve. I, and many others are here
      > > to help you along the way. But learning Linux is work. Hard work.
      > > But very rewarding work. Once you're on your way to knowing this
      > > tool, you can solve more and more problems more and more easily. My
      > > 16-year-old installed Linux for the very first time on his laptop
      > > yesterday. He installed Mint (a derivative of Ubuntu, which in turn
      > > is a derivative of Debian). As of today, he's got the system
      > > updated to the very latest code, has installed dropbox, chrome, and
      > > some other tools, and has synced his iPod to it, and is playing
      > > flash games, all with nothing for references other than google.
      > > It's not rocket surgery, it just takes some time and effort.
      > >
      > >
      > > So please, ask your questions. But be patient with the answers.
      > > Technical answers are not meant to be arrogant or condescending.
      > > It's much more likely that they're just calibrated to the wrong
      > > level of skill. And please please please, make it a goal to learn
      > > the tool before you worry about what you're going to build with that
      > > tool. You'll be much happier. We'll help you get there. But it
      > > does take time and effort.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 6:59 AM, w4jpa <abjarvis@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > The Cambridge guys were harking back to the late 70's when
      > > Sinclair wanted every kid to have computer and built his
      > > little Z80 based. membrane keyboard thingy that used the TV
      > > as a monitor - and it worked. We had a couple of generations
      > > of hackers (in the good sense) in the UK. And all this was
      > > augmented by the "BBC" computer later. But today the real
      > > system knowledge of entrants to computer science classes
      > > seems pretty dismal - hence their original build of 10,000
      > > was for these folks. But then we hams (and about a million
      > > others) wanted said device. I love it. Best hack I've had in
      > > years
      > > G4JPA / W4JPA
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen"
      > > <squirrox@...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Hi Guys,
      > > >
      > > > I find it quite interesting that the guys that designed
      > > the Pi targeted the UK educational community so that kids
      > > could learn computer science. However I fear that LINUX is
      > > too complicated for most teachers to teach or most kids to
      > > learn. We shall see.
      > > >
      > > > I think it is very sound advice to start off with
      > > something simpler, more Novice Licence style then graduate
      > > to LINUX when you are comfortable with taking on a new
      > > adventure. Personally I like the Arduino for learning with.
      > > There is a huge amount of information on projects available
      > > on the internet. The Arduino does not use an operating
      > > system, which IMHO is perfect for the majority of ham
      > > applications, as your programs directly interface with the
      > > hardware. There are quite a few Ham apps available for
      > > things like Beacons, Keyers, WSPR.
      > > >
      > > > I also like the Ti MSP430 Launchpad very much. But for a
      > > beginner only with the Energia software environment as the
      > > Ti Development tools are large and complex to understand
      > > without experience. All Energia does is make it possible to
      > > program the MSP430 Launchpad as if it were an Arduino.
      > > >
      > > > So, my advice is to learn to walk before you can run.
      > > So :-
      > > >
      > > > Get a copy of a small and very friendly book called
      > > "Getting started with Arduino" by Masssimo Banzi published
      > > by O'Reilly, it will be the best $12.99 you have ever spent
      > > on a book.
      > > >
      > > > Get an Arduino board from somewhere like here
      > > https://www.sparkfun.com/products/11286
      > > >
      > > > and work through the book. Then take a look at some of the
      > > work other people have done with such a simple set up. One
      > > nice beginners project is to hook up a GPS RX and an LCD
      > > display so you can display the time and location.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > This should give you enough of a "feel" fro the subject to
      > > then approach more complex systems like the Pi.
      > > >
      > > > Thats it from me on the subject.
      > > >
      > > > 73s from a cold England,
      > > >
      > > > Steve G0XAR
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > > --- In Raspberry_Pi_4-Ham_RADIO@yahoogroups.com, "MattB"
      > > <mbrauer@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Nicely put, Ray.
      > > > >
      > > > > I think that this frustration with Linux among hams was
      > > probably inevitable. In a lot of ways, the tasks and
      > > experiments that hams want to pursue require the HARDEST
      > > parts of Linux. It needs to be remembered that Linux, like
      > > Unix, was designed to be a multi-user operating system, with
      > > a high premium on facilitating application development. It
      > > was not intended as a hobbyist platform the way the Arduino
      > > was, for example.
      > > > >
      > > > > Many of us take for granted a lot of the basic
      > > infrastructure of Linux. We learned about programming
      > > through Kernighan and Ritchie's excellent book "The Unix
      > > Programming Environment" (still relevant for Linux!), and
      > > it's sort of second nature in a way that Windows and OSX are
      > > not.
      > > > >
      > > > > Even so, the complexities of system programming are
      > > difficult enough that many of us who know Linux well still
      > > have to exert some effort to get something like the TNC-X
      > > working correctly. The main advantage that we have is that
      > > we don't second-guess ourselves on the basics of the
      > > filesystem and OS generally.
      > > > >
      > > > > I think that those that are new to the Pi should ask
      > > themselves what their goals are. If it's to learn Linux,
      > > then I'd recommend backing off from the project of
      > > integrating the TNC-X, and going back to basics. I happen to
      > > think that this is a useful project in and of itself.
      > > > >
      > > > > If you're more interested in hardware projects, I'd
      > > suggest moving to the Arduino or (my favorite) the MSP430a
      > > (available for something like $4.50, shipping included.)
      > > There is a lot that can be accomplished with these
      > > platforms, and they're really better for real-time
      > > applications anyway.
      > > > >
      > > > > If you're determined to make the Pi work for your
      > > hardware application, just know that the road is long and
      > > requires some patience, and that there are a large number of
      > > intermediate steps to take and skills to master along the
      > > way. Take it slow, and take it easy on yourself.
      > > > >
      > > > > Good luck!
      > > > >
      > > > > -73-
      > > > > Matt KC2O
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > -=jeff=-
      > >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Ofelia y Juan Antonio Granados
      >
      > 9451 SW 97 Street
      > Miami, FL 33176
      > Ph. 305 270 8779; Fax. 305 595 1883;
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      > http://escueladehoy.org
      >
      >
      >
    • Ed
      Can you please change the subject line for this thread. Yahoo is marking the subject line as spam, which it is not. But try and tell that to Yahoo. I have to
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 21, 2013
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        Can you please change the subject line for this thread. Yahoo is marking
        the subject line as spam, which it is not. But try and tell that to
        Yahoo. I have to approve each and every message so Yahoo will pass it on
        as a normal message.

        The thread is no problem, so carry on.

        Thanks

        Ed W3NR

        linuxham list moderator
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