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Is there a reason for no REV button in SitorB mode?

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  • jhaynesatalumni
    ? Jim W6JVE
    Message 1 of 9 , Mar 9 6:12 PM
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      ?

      Jim W6JVE
    • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
      Are you serious? You re meaning SiTOR Mode B - which is a interleaved broadcast mode. Can be sent to SELCALL or Group call. What is the purpose of a turn
      Message 2 of 9 , Mar 9 6:45 PM
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        Are you serious?

        You're meaning SiTOR Mode B - which is a interleaved broadcast mode.  Can be sent to SELCALL or Group call.  What is the purpose of a turn around when there's no pause in the signal?

        AAB - Automatic Answer-Back was configured in Mode A so that you could get the answer back i.d. of the station you were working.  Half useless as on radio you would only get the radio whose selcall you were using.

        But it was compatible with the world-wide telex network which had the following protocol:  Stations listen for their Selective Call Numbers or SELCALL and when they hear it they start up as Slave or Information Receiving Station, send their automatic identification (WRU) and send FIGS D to get the identification of the calling station.  Figs-D was the WRU (who are you) command.


        Nothing like this goes on in either of Mode B with or without SELCALLs, so 

        The is an END button with sends a TERMRQ request to terminate transmission if the operator wishes to end a transmission before it might be sent in full or at any time.

        There is a normal sequence of sync pulses at the end of a FEC / Mode B broadcast which sounds "different" and rather "light" a second or so after that sequence the transmitter terminates.

        73
        Gopher Hole:  gopher://sdf.org/1/users/djringjr/ (native or with Firefox's Overbite extension) or via http to gopher gateway
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        =30=


        On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 9:12 PM, <jhhaynes@...> wrote:
        ?

        Jim W6JVE



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      • Remi Chateauneu
        Hi Jim, Do you mean in Fldigi ? If this is what you mean, indeed only a couple of modes have the Rev button enabled: $ grep -w CAP_REV src/*/*cxx
        Message 3 of 9 , Mar 10 5:04 AM
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          Hi Jim,

          Do you mean in Fldigi ?

          If this is what you mean, indeed only a couple of modes have the "Rev" button enabled:

          $ grep -w CAP_REV src/*/*cxx
          src/contestia/contestia.cxx:    cap |= CAP_REV;
          src/cw_rtty/rtty.cxx:   cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
          src/cw_rtty/view_rtty.cxx:      cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
          src/dominoex/dominoex.cxx:      cap |= CAP_REV;
          src/feld/feld.cxx:                      cap |= CAP_REV;
          src/mfsk/mfsk.cxx:      cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
          src/olivia/olivia.cxx:  cap |= CAP_REV;
          src/psk/psk.cxx:                cap |= CAP_REV;
          src/thor/thor.cxx:      cap |= CAP_REV;
          src/throb/throb.cxx:    cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
          src/wefax/wefax.cxx:    modem::cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV | CAP_IMG ;

          And yes, Sitor and Navtex are not in this list.

          In the file fldigi/src/navtex/navtex.cxx , the member m_reverse is always set to False. We could change if this is necessary. But for Navtex which is a standard, it must not be reverted.

          Hope this helps.

          Remi F4ECW

          Le 10.03.2013 02:12, jhhaynes@... a écrit :
           

          ?

          Jim W6JVE







        • jhaynesatalumni
          ... What I m asking about is a REV button for upside-down FSK, like there is for RTTY.
          Message 4 of 9 , Mar 13 3:58 PM
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            --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, "D.J.J. Ring, Jr." <n1ea@...> wrote:
            >
            > Are you serious?
            >
            > You're meaning SiTOR Mode B - which is a interleaved broadcast mode. Can
            > be sent to SELCALL or Group call. What is the purpose of a turn around
            > when there's no pause in the signal?
            >

            What I'm asking about is a REV button for upside-down FSK, like
            there is for RTTY.
          • jhaynesatalumni
            ... Yes ... This is like a certain Microsoft joke which takes too long to tell here. I m asking if there is a reason for not including Sitor/Navtex in the
            Message 5 of 9 , Mar 13 4:02 PM
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              --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, Remi Chateauneu <rchateauneu@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Jim,
              >
              > Do you mean in Fldigi ?

              Yes

              >
              > If this is what you mean, indeed only a couple of modes have the "Rev"
              > button enabled:
              >
              > $ grep -w CAP_REV src/*/*cxx
              > src/contestia/contestia.cxx: cap |= CAP_REV;
              > src/cw_rtty/rtty.cxx: cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
              > src/cw_rtty/view_rtty.cxx: cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
              > src/dominoex/dominoex.cxx: cap |= CAP_REV;
              > src/feld/feld.cxx: cap |= CAP_REV;
              > src/mfsk/mfsk.cxx: cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
              > src/olivia/olivia.cxx: cap |= CAP_REV;
              > src/psk/psk.cxx: cap |= CAP_REV;
              > src/thor/thor.cxx: cap |= CAP_REV;
              > src/throb/throb.cxx: cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
              > src/wefax/wefax.cxx: modem::cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV | CAP_IMG ;
              >
              > And yes, Sitor and Navtex are not in this list.
              >
              This is like a certain Microsoft joke which takes too long to
              tell here. I'm asking if there is a reason for not including
              Sitor/Navtex in the modes that allow reversing for upside-down
              shift.
            • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
              Sorry, Jim, I thought you meant REVERSE as in going from an ISS (Information Sending Station) to a IRS (Information Receiving Station) either as Master or
              Message 6 of 9 , Mar 13 5:12 PM
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                Sorry, Jim,

                I thought you meant REVERSE as in going from an ISS (Information Sending Station) to a IRS (Information Receiving Station) either as Master or Slave in SiTOR.  Reverse in the direction flow can be done by software command or by keyboard sending +? or other keys - on Baudot keyboard it is plus sign followed by question mark.

                I haven't worked Pactor or SiTOR/AMTOR in years.

                I remember that Pactor and Packet doesn't make any difference if the stations are using USB to LSB.

                I remember that SiTOR has a pairing of mark/space elements plus additional error correcting elements so that the ratios were always uniform. Does also Reverse Tones makes no sense with SiTOR or FEC because of the error correction?

                I guess anyone using AmTOR or SiTOR could work USB to LSB and see if it worked.

                I haven't used it for over 25 years though except maybe for one contact although I was one of the first using it on the ham bands while using N1EA/MM - exotic equipment in use Philips STB-750 Baudot to SiTOR converter :-)

                73

                DR

                On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Remi Chateauneu <rchateauneu@...> wrote:


                Hi Jim,

                Do you mean in Fldigi ?

                If this is what you mean, indeed only a couple of modes have the "Rev" button enabled:

                $ grep -w CAP_REV src/*/*cxx
                src/contestia/contestia.cxx:    cap |= CAP_REV;
                src/cw_rtty/rtty.cxx:   cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
                src/cw_rtty/view_rtty.cxx:      cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
                src/dominoex/dominoex.cxx:      cap |= CAP_REV;
                src/feld/feld.cxx:                      cap |= CAP_REV;
                src/mfsk/mfsk.cxx:      cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
                src/olivia/olivia.cxx:  cap |= CAP_REV;
                src/psk/psk.cxx:                cap |= CAP_REV;
                src/thor/thor.cxx:      cap |= CAP_REV;
                src/throb/throb.cxx:    cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV;
                src/wefax/wefax.cxx:    modem::cap |= CAP_AFC | CAP_REV | CAP_IMG ;

                And yes, Sitor and Navtex are not in this list.

                In the file fldigi/src/navtex/navtex.cxx , the member m_reverse is always set to False. We could change if this is necessary. But for Navtex which is a standard, it must not be reverted.

                Hope this helps.

                Remi F4ECW

                Le 10.03.2013 02:12, jhhaynes@... a écrit :
                 

                ?

                Jim W6JVE










              • rchateauneu
                For NAVTEX, it was not needed because it could receive messages without inversion. It should not be possible I think because it is not in the standard. With
                Message 7 of 9 , Mar 14 6:37 AM
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                  For NAVTEX, it was not needed because it could receive messages without inversion. It should not be possible I think because it is not in the standard.

                  With SITOR, the code and strictly behaviour to NAVTEX modem apart preamble and a couple of details, but the modems are the same. It is cretainly posible to add this possibility.

                  No-one asked for the possiblity ot reversing. If you are interested, I can add taht to SITOR, it will come in the next version (With a couple of small bug fixes to Navtex too).

                  PS: What is this Microsoft joke ?

                  --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, jhhaynes@... wrote:
                  >

                  > >
                  > > And yes, Sitor and Navtex are not in this list.
                  > >
                  > This is like a certain Microsoft joke which takes too long to
                  > tell here. I'm asking if there is a reason for not including
                  > Sitor/Navtex in the modes that allow reversing for upside-down
                  > shift.
                  >
                • jhaynesatalumni
                  Just a matter of convenience. I was copying the WLO broadcast and happened to be on the wrong sideband and it would have been easier to punch a REV button
                  Message 8 of 9 , Mar 14 8:53 AM
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                    Just a matter of convenience. I was copying the WLO broadcast and
                    happened to be on the wrong sideband and it would have been easier
                    to punch a REV button than to switch sidebands and retune the receiver.

                    --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, "rchateauneu" <rchateauneu@...> wrote:

                    > PS: What is this Microsoft joke ?
                    >
                    Well, since you asked...

                    A guy is flying in a helicopter in the Seattle area and is suddenly
                    enveloped in a cloud bank and has no idea where he is. So he yells
                    out the window "Where am I?" and he hears a yell back from the
                    ground, "You're in a helicopter."

                    So the pilot says obviously I am right over Microsoft headquarters,
                    because they answered my question with something that is perfectly correct and perfectly useless.
                  • D.J.J. Ring, Jr.
                    So in mode A is AmTOR / SiTOR independent of LSB/USB ZZor reverse tones? I cannot remember, but I think so. David
                    Message 9 of 9 , Mar 14 10:04 PM
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                      So in mode A is AmTOR / SiTOR independent of LSB/USB ZZor reverse tones?  I cannot remember, but I think so.

                      David

                      On Mar 14, 2013 9:37 AM, "rchateauneu" <rchateauneu@...> wrote:
                      For NAVTEX, it was not needed because it could receive messages without inversion. It should not be possible I think because it is not in the standard.

                      With SITOR, the code and strictly behaviour to NAVTEX modem apart preamble and a couple of details, but the modems are the same. It is cretainly posible to add this possibility.

                      No-one asked for the possiblity ot reversing. If you are interested, I can add taht to SITOR, it will come in the next version (With a couple of small bug fixes to Navtex too).

                      PS: What is this Microsoft joke ?

                      --- In linuxham@yahoogroups.com, jhhaynes@... wrote:
                      >

                      > >
                      > > And yes, Sitor and Navtex are not in this list.
                      > >
                      > This is like a certain Microsoft joke which takes too long to
                      > tell here.  I'm asking if there is a reason for not including
                      > Sitor/Navtex in the modes that allow reversing for upside-down
                      > shift.
                      >




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