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bad experience installing DigiPup tonight

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  • Ken N9VV
    Hi I have a dual-core D940 1GB (recent vintage Dell PC) that is triple booted into XP + SimplyMEPIS (for Beryl support) and now DigiPup. I had to struggle with
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 3, 2007
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      Hi I have a dual-core D940 1GB (recent vintage Dell PC) that is
      triple booted into XP + SimplyMEPIS (for Beryl support) and now DigiPup.

      I had to struggle with it's messed up grub installer and then
      discovered that it will recognize the partition and try to boot from
      it but just dies a quiet death after a few spins of the HD.

      The DigiPup LiveCD came up like gangbusters but I was unable to get
      a single sound out of my mobo sound system (that works perfectly
      under SimplyMEPIS, Windows, and Ubuntu 7.04).

      Fldigi looks like a lot of fun if I can ever get over the ALSA-OSS
      hump. Several guys have suggested I buy a cheap sound card and use
      it instead of the mobo SigmaTel audio. I think there might be Linux
      support for the Delta-44(?). I will give it another go tomorrow when
      I am awake.

      This certainly must be why so few Hams are migrating to Linux
      instead of Vista ;-( It is a big hassle - it is like trying to
      build equipment instead of buying a commercial unit and just getting
      on the air! Perhaps the Linux guys spend a lot more time on their
      PC's than on the air in a real QSO(?).

      de Ken N9VV
    • Rick Kunath
      ... How are you triple-booting? Messing about with lilo or Grub, or using a dedicated bootloader and chaining (this is what I do)? ... The SigmaTel Intel sound
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 3, 2007
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        Ken N9VV wrote:
        > Hi I have a dual-core D940 1GB (recent vintage Dell PC) that is
        > triple booted into XP + SimplyMEPIS (for Beryl support) and now DigiPup.

        How are you triple-booting? Messing about with lilo or Grub, or using a
        dedicated bootloader and chaining (this is what I do)?

        > Fldigi looks like a lot of fun if I can ever get over the ALSA-OSS
        > hump. Several guys have suggested I buy a cheap sound card and use
        > it instead of the mobo SigmaTel audio. I think there might be Linux
        > support for the Delta-44(?). I will give it another go tomorrow when
        > I am awake.

        The SigmaTel Intel sound on Intel motherboards I have used works out of
        the box on Mandriva 2007.1, but I don't know about your Dell
        motherboard. Dell has been known to use a similarly named product but
        have different actual hardware. Add the alsa-oss emulation package and
        you are all set. Support for that card is recent though. As to card
        support it depends on the ALSA version and included kernel modules built
        into the distro. A well supported sound card is a good investment though.

        See what the card identifier is for your card and see if it matches up
        with the supported SigmaTel cards on the ALSA site. The site will tell
        you what ALSA version began supporting the card, so you can see what a
        particular distro includes, ALSA release version wise.

        > This certainly must be why so few Hams are migrating to Linux
        > instead of Vista ;-( It is a big hassle - it is like trying to
        > build equipment instead of buying a commercial unit and just getting
        > on the air!

        Linux is still about supported hardware. If you don't have it, you are
        in for a harder time. It's the same for Vista.

        > Perhaps the Linux guys spend a lot more time on their
        > PC's than on the air in a real QSO(?).

        Depends on the distro. Pop in the Mandriva powerpack DVD, answer a few
        questions, in about a half-hour you will have working 3d acceleration,
        multimedia, web browsing and email, lots more. Grab the FLdigi binary,
        unpack it, click the executable, and you're off.

        I had it going in about that on a test Ubuntu installation too. Though I
        didn't have the working 3d acceleration and multimedia with all the
        proprietary codecs working then.

        It all depends on your hardware and the chosen distro, and what is
        included, driver wise.

        Rick Kunath, k9ao
      • w1hkj
        1. I found that I had entered /dev/tty/USB0 instead of /dev/ttyUSB0. Ans. Linux treats every serail port in a uniform way. All device drivers are located in
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 4, 2007
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          1. I found that I had entered /dev/tty/USB0 instead of /dev/ttyUSB0.

          Ans. Linux treats every serail port in a uniform way.  All device drivers are located in the /dev directory.  The tty part of the name indicates a terminal device that obeys certain character oriented rules for the data stream.  The Sx (S0, S1 etc) indicate that the hardware is a serial port  ergo ttyS0, ttyS1 etc.  If the device name is appended with the USBx it indicates the the hardware is a USB type which give the names ttyUSB0, ttyUSB1 etc.  The determination of which physical device is designated by 0, 1, 2 etc is made during boot when the OS discovers what hardware is on the machine.  If you replace a USB device the OS can find most on a plug and play basis.  If you added a COM type of serial device that discovery must be made at boot time.

          2. Is this /dev/ttyUSBx the USB side of the port only or is this associated with the COM port?

          Ans.  You can learn more about which physical device is associated with which logical device  on an Ubuntu based system using the Device Manager gui application.  My mother board sound system, an AC'97 audio controller from Intel, shows up as /dev/dsp1 and /dev/mixer1 for the sound and mixer.  The SignaLink USB interface is a USB Audio interface, Texas Insturments Japan, and is logical device(s) /dev/dsp and /dev/mixer

          3. If I am using Hamlib, do I need to enter a /dev/tty/Sx? Or just check on the highlight box for Hamlib on the left side?

          Ans.   Remember that the device name is /dev/ttySx.  If you are using hamlib and not the rig.xml (rigcat) access method to gain access to the rig then you will need to specify the port associated with the serial device that hamlib will find the rig.  That is entered on the right hand side of the RigCtl panel.  A caveat ... the hamlib interface code for the Icom rigs was written with the expectation that you would have a real CI-V interface and not one which steals power from the DTR or RTS pin.  rigcat i/o recognizes the need to retain DTR at +12V when the rig.xml file so specifies.  rigcat can therefore be used with your homebrew interface and not hamlib.

          4. What is normal response time for the updating of the rig display frequency? It often takes a very long time, >5 to 10 seconds to update
          but sometimes very quickly.
          5. Is this possibly due to the fact that I am not providing the right power to the transistor circuitry because I don't have the /dev/tty/Sx
          on the right setting?

          Ans.  The rig is queried every 50 msec for new data.  I have tested this on an IC-756PRO-II and have seen no problems associated with latency.  I am controlling the rig via /dev/ttyS0 which is physically connected to a homebrew CI-V interface which steals power from DTR.  If you are using the rig.xml file which I provided on a private email I suggest leaving the left hand side of the RigCtl panel blank with the exception of the selection of RigCAT for push to talk.

          6. I still can not get the audio to connect up to the program. I am pretty sure I am inputting it OK on the Line in and Line out. I have the OSS simulation installed for my ALSA audio.

          Ans.  Try the audio editor Audacity ( http://audacity.sourceforge.net ) to see if you're sound system is working OK with the OS.

          Dave, W1HKJ

        • Rick
          Hi Again, 1. The only computer I have been working with the past few weeks has been the new HP since I discovered that Mepis 6.5 (but not the earlier 6.0)
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 4, 2007
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            Hi Again,

            1. The only computer I have been working with the past few weeks has
            been the new HP since I discovered that Mepis 6.5 (but not the earlier
            6.0) would drive the Nvidia. The computer is the Pavilion a1730N. I got
            it because I think it has one of the best price points at this time with
            an AMD Athlon 4600+ 64 X2 dual core, 2 gig memory, 320 gig HD, and the
            Nvidia GeForce 6150LE graphics. I had more positive comments about
            Nvidia video for Linux than most other products.

            2. The blurring of the font is fairly subtle, but quite distressing when
            using to do things such as view a web page or a document that has a lot
            of writing, especially with small font sizes. It sort of looks like a
            smudging effect and drastically reduces readability. I would like to
            know what the NP and PP refer to in the video menu Information as that
            seems to be the only difference between XP and Mepis driving the
            identical screen.

            I could not find the hardware font size. I did not find any /etc/X11/fs
            file so possibly different from other versions of Linux? I have the X11
            setup to display 96 dpi. The other choices are 75 and 120 and they don't
            really make much difference for web pages if you accept the web page font.

            3. If your fonts look better than MS OS's that seems contrary to what
            even the Linux devotees admit about the fonts. As a Mandriva user, this
            may be a better version of Linux that attends to that detail? Many Linux
            references are honest and point out the problems with the bad fonts and
            show how to bring in the Windows fonts to get higher quality and so I
            followed their recommendations and it did improve things over the
            initial fonts. These are some of the things that are really impacting
            Linux the most. There are certain things that have to work out of the
            box and it just does not seem to be there at this time. That doesn't
            mean that they won't get there eventually. Vista has better font
            rendering than XP due to some ultra tweaked fonts. I bet they spent a
            few million with that alone. I wish the energies that are spent on Beryl
            and other eye candy, would focus on basic enhancements though but I
            suppose it is exciting to work on the new cool things.

            6. I don't know what to believe about rpm's after the recent blow up by
            ESR over Red Hat and his conversion to Ubuntu due to dependency hell. At
            this point this is still a toy for me or I would have let it go a long
            time ago and gotten some actual work done.:) I am still intrigued by the
            one program that is only available on Linux (PSKmail) but it sounds like
            something else is in the works for a cross platform type of program.

            73,

            Rick, KV9U



            Rick Kunath wrote:
            > Comments inline...
            >
            > On Monday 04 June 2007 6:41:53 pm Rick wrote:
            >
            >> 1. I am not familiar with the accelerated video for Intel and spent a
            >> lot of time on their site. One of the boot choices with Mepis was to use
            >> the latest Nvidia driver and that brought up the higher quality video.
            >>
            >
            > This is with the Nvidia card, I assume?
            >
            >
            >> I
            >> was pretty elated and thought I was finally going to have acceptable
            >> fonts. After installing Mepis, I downloaded the MS fonts to improve font
            >> quality, but I get kind of a streaking effect every few inches on the
            >> screen where it is fairly good quality and then an inch of lower quality
            >> fonts that appear to be a kind of blurring artifact. Large images and
            >> pictures, including very high resolution ones seem fine.
            >>
            >
            > Certainly odd. I can't say as I have ever seen that one before. Does the
            > blurring appear in a saved full-screen screenshot, or only during live screen
            > useage? It wouldn't be video tearing would it?
            >
            >
            >> 2. The monitor is standard VGA since the computer doesn't have DVI
            >> output and even if it does, I am using a KVM switch which only accepts VGA.
            >>
            >> I checked and have the libfreetype6 package installed
            >>
            >
            > Is the package built using autohinting (free), or the better (and patented)
            > bytecode interpreter?
            >
            > What is the actual hardware DPI resolution of your LCD display? 96 DPI or
            > maybe 100 DPI? What is the default setting for your Xfontserver set to, i.e.
            > are the 75 DPI fonts set to load first or are the 100 DPI fonts higher in the
            > load list in /etc/X11/fs/config? A good installer should have figured out
            > the correct settings and applied then during install, but if this is wrong,
            > you'll have sub-par fonts. This wouldn't cause the blurring though.
            >
            >
            >> 3. I tried changing the font anti-aliasing and have it turned off with
            >> smaller sizes since it did not help. Font quality is the main thing that
            >> makes Linux unusable for practical work.
            >>
            >
            > At least in your distro. I haven't had font quality issues with Linux for many
            > years. My fonts here have looked better than MS for a while now.
            >
            >
            >> I have other things that I need
            >> to work on such as getting it to print to my networked computer.
            >>
            >
            > Samba should handle that for you. Here I moved away from MS/Linux
            > machine-based printer sharing and installed a separate small print server
            > that operates as an LPD network print server. It smoothly integrates with my
            > MS and Linux boxes, and is not tied to any one machine.
            >
            >
            >> 4. The compiling of fltk and hamlib appears to have gone OK now that I
            >> can at least boot up the fldigi program.
            >>
            >> 5. I am confused why some program installations recommend doing a make
            >> clean after installation of the files if it deletes the executable.
            >> (Linux Questions recommendations for installing from source code).
            >>
            >
            > It doesn't delete the executable installed by the make install command
            > elsewhere in the file system (/usr, /usr/local, etc.) It will clean out the
            > local build directory tree. I never issue a make clean after a build. I have
            > plenty of hard drive space. A make clean can be useful to flush included
            > tarball files not built from scratch on your particular box as a part of the
            > initial build, i.e., ./configure (--add-whatever-options-you-need), make
            > clean, make, su to root, make install, doing this sequence if there are build
            > errors without the make clean. You'd use this instead of the
            > usual ./configure, make, su to root, make install sequence.
            >
            > Often commands are needed to be passed to ./configure and doing
            > a ./configure --help will get you a list of anything special and the standard
            > switches. You might need to set some of these. You would have used some of
            > these on your FLTK install if the binary on your distro was not built with
            > everything you needed.
            >
            >
            >> This whole source code thing is of course a double edged sword.
            >> Tremendously powerful and really quite necessary if you want the latest
            >> software updates since there is not one version of Linux and you need to
            >> tailor make it for your distribution. But it is also something that
            >> almost no computer users would ever be willing to do except for the real
            >> diehard types like those of us on this group. Maybe we could get to the
            >> point of having ham radio meetings to explain this stuff to the average
            >> ham, but that is probably not realistic
            >>
            >
            > Sounds like a good idea. Generally, once an app stabilizes, gets feature
            > complete, and needs less testing and cross distro testing, binary packages
            > for the major distros can be offered that install easily.
            >
            >
            >> 6. During the installation of fltk I got a error that it could not find
            >> the right files and did a search on the internet for fltk + the error
            >> message and found out that there were several possible dependency issues
            >> and was able to compile once I installed libx11-dev, although one source
            >> indicated it needed to be libx11-devel. These are the kinds of things
            >> that make it nearly impossible for any serious adoption of Linux at this
            >> level. It has to be more like installing MS software.
            >>
            >
            > It is with a properly functioning package installer. The exact package will be
            > distro specific, so your package installer should be used to query the
            > package list for the appropriate package. There are both command line as well
            > as full-featured GUI based managers on some distros. In Mandriva 2007.1's
            > case, had you asked the package installer for package names containing a
            > portion of the above missing package, you'd have been presented with a list
            > of installed packages, as well as not installed packages. This would have
            > included obvious references to missing devel packages as well. You'd check
            > off a few boxes, click OK, and be done with it.
            >
            > In the case of source compiled apps, you would have to identify the package
            > you needed yourself. But this isn't too hard with practice. Had someone
            > supplied you with an rpm for fldigi, the rpm itself would have instructed the
            > package installer to automatically (requiring you to pre-approve the
            > additions list) install any additional dependent packages that it needed to
            > run. You'd have been presented with a list of packages that needed to be
            > installed along with your rpm, been asked to OK the additional packages, and
            > the lot would have been installed along with nice icons and a menu entry.
            > Eventually, if the universal binary won't work on a specific distro, rpm
            > packages can be created.
            >
            > You did great on this so far. And it will get lots easier with time. You did
            > just right on hunting up the missing package depends. Hopefully, with a few
            > more tweaks in place, you will start to get to the point where you feel your
            > install is really shaping up.
            >
            > Rick Kunath, k9ao
            >
            >
          • Rick
            I knew about the case sensitive issue with the tty ports from a previous post. I seem to recall that the COM port is 3 or 5 with that interface when I used it
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 4, 2007
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              I knew about the case sensitive issue with the tty ports from a previous
              post. I seem to recall that the COM port is 3 or 5 with that interface
              when I used it with XP so I wonder if it would be hard wired that way?

              I tried using S0 through S9 I think it was but only changed them and
              clicked on the initialize button. Maybe I have to do more?

              The USB adapter then plugs into my HB 2 transistor interface. This seems
              to be getting a bit complicated. I would prefer trying to get this to
              work in what I would consider a normal manner like I would with anything
              I have done over the years with windows/C-64/Apple //e.

              Is there a way to tell what COM port is being used? and USB port? Or
              whatever the device associated with /dev/ttyUSB0?

              I do not have my Linux machine connected for e-mail but may try and
              sneaker net this file from this XP machine to the Linux machine later on.

              Thanks for the help.

              73,

              Rick, KV9U


              w1hkj wrote:
              > Yes. I would recommend the following.
              >
              > First, the relationship between COM ports and ttyS ports (case is
              > IMPORTANT)
              >
              > COM1 ==> /dev/ttyS0
              > COM2 ==> /dev/ttyS1
              >
              > the USB-serial dongle is probably
              > /dev/ttyUSB0
              >
              > Are you using the USB-serial dongle for the CAT interface to the rig?
              > It sounds like you have a CI-V DTR cheater interface. I have the same
              > thing here for the Icom 746 PRO.
              >
              > I would recommend that you begin with a rig.xml file that will
              > probably work with your 756 PRO and forget about hamlib. I will send
              > you the rig.xml file as a direct attachment to your mrfarm email
              > address. It will be configured for the 756 PRO and /dev/ttyUSB0. I
              > will give you additional instructions in that email.
              >
              > 73, Dave, W1HKJ
              > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
              >
              > No virus found in this incoming message.
              > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
              > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007 12:47 PM
              >
            • Rick
              1. I found that I had entered /dev/tty/USB0 instead of /dev/ttyUSB0. It turns out that you can quickly tell which command to use since the rig on the task bar
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 4, 2007
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                1. I found that I had entered /dev/tty/USB0 instead of /dev/ttyUSB0. It
                turns out that you can quickly tell which command to use since the rig
                on the task bar will become active as soon as you enter the right
                combination and initialize. Maybe this is in the docs and I missed it? I
                discovered that the old USB to COM adapter from Radio Shack is operating
                at /dev/ttyUSB0 and my newer no name ultra low cost unit (sold
                everywhere:) requires /dev/ttyUSB1.

                2. Is this /dev/ttyUSBx the USB side of the port only or is this
                associated with the COM port?

                3. If I am using Hamlib, do I need to enter a /dev/tty/Sx? Or just check
                on the highlight box for Hamlib on the left side?

                4. What is normal response time for the updating of the rig display
                frequency? It often takes a very long time, >5 to 10 seconds to update
                but sometimes very quickly. The transmit takes about 5 seconds to key up
                after clicking on either of TX buttons and it does not seem to be able
                to return to RX. Curiously, when I click on the list of stored
                frequencies, it always switches instantly to the correct freq. Same for
                mode changes.

                5. Is this possibly due to the fact that I am not providing the right
                power to the transistor circuitry because I don't have the /dev/tty/Sx
                on the right setting?

                6. I still can not get the audio to connect up to the program. I am
                pretty sure I am inputting it OK on the Line in and Line out. I have the
                OSS simulation installed for my ALSA audio.

                Thanks for all the help,

                73,

                Rick, KV9U
              • Rick
                If I look in the /dev directory, I can not begin to understand what I would need to look at to determine the ports that are in use. Even using the KDE Info
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 5, 2007
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                  If I look in the /dev directory, I can not begin to understand what I
                  would need to look at to determine the ports that are in use. Even using
                  the KDE Info Center was of minimal help as it does not specify what is
                  active. It does find the specific name of the USB manufacturers product.

                  I am not clear on whether or not I need to have the exact correct COM
                  port specified on the left side if I am using hamlib. I have the hamlib
                  checked on the right side and the highlighted red activation on the left
                  side.

                  In other words, if I have the DTR +12 v checked, is the program going to
                  provide the required voltage or does it need to know the COM port
                  specifications?

                  I discovered on the hamlib web site that you can go into terminal mode
                  and run the rigctl commands. I tried this out and using the /dev/ttyUSB0
                  was able to get it to work instantly. Similarly, when I use the GUI
                  Hamlib commands, it responds quickly from the Hamlib side, but it is
                  sluggish from the rig side back to Hamlib.

                  The fldigi program then, does not respond well to frequency changes in
                  the rig, taking a long time or sometimes never updating the frequency.
                  Also, it can trigger PTT after a fairly long wait, but seems unable to
                  unkey the PTT once it is activated.

                  I am getting a consistent error on the bottom of the fldigi program
                  indicating "Hamlib loop Get Mode: Hamlib getMode error" so something is
                  not quite right yet.

                  After getting the Audacity package installed I was finally able to track
                  down the executable and run the program and it works OK picking up the
                  Line Input. As mentioned earlier, I am not getting any audio to display
                  on the fldigi program, so I must be missing something.

                  73,

                  Rick, KV9U


                  w1hkj wrote:
                  > 1. I found that I had entered /dev/tty/USB0 instead of /dev/ttyUSB0.
                  >
                  > Ans. Linux treats every serail port in a uniform way. All device
                  > drivers are located in the /dev directory. The tty part of the name
                  > indicates a terminal device that obeys certain character oriented
                  > rules for the data stream. The Sx (S0, S1 etc) indicate that the
                  > hardware is a serial port ergo ttyS0, ttyS1 etc. If the device name
                  > is appended with the USBx it indicates the the hardware is a USB type
                  > which give the names ttyUSB0, ttyUSB1 etc. The determination of which
                  > physical device is designated by 0, 1, 2 etc is made during boot when
                  > the OS discovers what hardware is on the machine. If you replace a
                  > USB device the OS can find most on a plug and play basis. If you
                  > added a COM type of serial device that discovery must be made at boot
                  > time.
                  >
                  > 2. Is this /dev/ttyUSBx the USB side of the port only or is this
                  > associated with the COM port?
                  >
                  > Ans. You can learn more about which physical device is associated
                  > with which logical device on an Ubuntu based system using the Device
                  > Manager gui application. My mother board sound system, an AC'97 audio
                  > controller from Intel, shows up as /dev/dsp1 and /dev/mixer1 for the
                  > sound and mixer. The SignaLink USB interface is a USB Audio
                  > interface, Texas Insturments Japan, and is logical device(s) /dev/dsp
                  > and /dev/mixer
                  >
                  > 3. If I am using Hamlib, do I need to enter a */dev/tty/Sx?* Or just
                  > check on the highlight box for Hamlib on the left side?
                  >
                  > Ans. Remember that the device name is */dev/ttySx*. If you are
                  > using hamlib and not the rig.xml (rigcat) access method to gain access
                  > to the rig then you will need to specify the port associated with the
                  > serial device that hamlib will find the rig. That is entered on the
                  > right hand side of the RigCtl panel. A caveat ... the hamlib
                  > interface code for the Icom rigs was written with the expectation that
                  > you would have a real CI-V interface and not one which steals power
                  > from the DTR or RTS pin. rigcat i/o recognizes the need to retain DTR
                  > at +12V when the rig.xml file so specifies. rigcat can therefore be
                  > used with your homebrew interface and not hamlib.
                  >
                  > 4. What is normal response time for the updating of the rig display
                  > frequency? It often takes a very long time, >5 to 10 seconds to update
                  > but sometimes very quickly.
                  > 5. Is this possibly due to the fact that I am not providing the right
                  > power to the transistor circuitry because I don't have the */dev/tty/Sx*
                  > on the right setting?
                  >
                  > Ans. The rig is queried every 50 msec for new data. I have tested
                  > this on an IC-756PRO-II and have seen no problems associated with
                  > latency. I am controlling the rig via /dev/ttyS0 which is physically
                  > connected to a homebrew CI-V interface which steals power from DTR.
                  > If you are using the rig.xml file which I provided on a private email
                  > I suggest leaving the left hand side of the RigCtl panel blank with
                  > the exception of the selection of RigCAT for push to talk.
                  >
                  > 6. I still can not get the audio to connect up to the program. I am
                  > pretty sure I am inputting it OK on the Line in and Line out. I have
                  > the OSS simulation installed for my ALSA audio.
                  >
                  > Ans. Try the audio editor Audacity ( http://audacity.sourceforge.net
                  > ) to see if you're sound system is working OK with the OS.
                  >
                  > Dave, W1HKJ
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > No virus found in this incoming message.
                  > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                  > Version: 7.5.472 / Virus Database: 269.8.7/830 - Release Date: 6/3/2007 12:47 PM
                  >
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