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Re: [linuxham] Canned Macros

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  • IZ1TGH Roberto Waha
    Hi Pierfrancesco! 2011/6/8 Pierfrancesco Caci ... Why do you call it bullshit ? Isn t it true? You will admit that decent English speakers
    Message 1 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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    Hi Pierfrancesco!

    2011/6/8 Pierfrancesco Caci <ik5pvx@...>
    Roberto, with all due respect, I call bullshit on this!

    Why do you call it "bullshit"? Isn't it true?
    You will admit that decent English speakers in our country are rare like white flies.
    Let alone for older Eastern European hams!
    Not everyone is a polyglot or has a decent knowledge of English to keep up a "chat QSO", on this side of the Atlantic, apart of G* or EI hams, of course.
    There are some notable exceptions: I enjoyed a 15-minute QSO with a Dutch ham typing in Italian (better than many Italians!) without macros, chatting about his holidays by the Italian Lakes.
     
    I have had QSO with other italians who replied to my greeting (in
    italian) with a canned macro in itanglish

    Itanglish... ROTFL! :-D
    I still remember a QSO with a EA station who translated macros with google... fun Spanglish!
     
    (i.e. they use canned macros
    and don't even have the decency of getting them corrected by someone
    who went a step further than "the cat is on the table" at school).

    Yes, I admit this is very disappointing.
    Even worse is when some fellow Italian hams add (in Italian, of course) "Sorry for the macros in English".
    How come? You bothered to type your pardon beg, why not typing all the rest in your native language to another ham sharing the same mother-language?
     
    Also, nobody forces you to fill in the macro in a tabulated form, you
    can prepare them so that they're part of a conversation flow.

    That's what I did after some months of experience, but I always add something different (by adding a "hello" or "thanks" in his/her language) to my macros in order not to make rubberstamps QSOs.
    In attachment, I try to add my own macros file.
     
    Shall we talk about those who get the full name or the family name out
    of qrz.com, instead of the first name?

    Ewwww...
     
    </rant>

    Pierfrancesco, I hope to see you once on the air.
    I will send you macros in Southern German with my final 73's in my Valley's dialect! :-)

    --
    +------------=* IZ1TGH Roberto Waha - IZ1TGH@... *=-------------+
    |          El Senyor és la meva força, el Senyor el meu cant.         |
    |       Ell m'ha estat la salvació. En Ell confío i no tinc por.      |
    +---------------------------------------------------------------------+
  • Pierfrancesco Caci
    ... Ciao Roberto, I call it like that because it s a poor excuse. ... I agree with you on this, the problem is when people insist on using macros even when the
    Message 2 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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      On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 14:38, IZ1TGH Roberto Waha <iz1tgh@...> wrote:
      >
      > [Attachment(s) from IZ1TGH Roberto Waha included below]
      >
      > Hi Pierfrancesco!
      > 2011/6/8 Pierfrancesco Caci <ik5pvx@...>
      >>
      >> Roberto, with all due respect, I call bullshit on this!
      >
      > Why do you call it "bullshit"? Isn't it true?

      Ciao Roberto,
      I call it like that because it's a poor excuse.

      > You will admit that decent English speakers in our country are rare like white flies.
      > Let alone for older Eastern European hams!
      > Not everyone is a polyglot or has a decent knowledge of English to keep up a "chat QSO", on this side of the Atlantic, apart of G* or EI hams, of course.
      > There are some notable exceptions: I enjoyed a 15-minute QSO with a Dutch ham typing in Italian (better than many Italians!) without macros, chatting about his holidays by the Italian Lakes.

      I agree with you on this, the problem is when people insist on using
      macros even when the other ham speaks their own language!
      The people willing to type a few words are very few.

      > Even worse is when some fellow Italian hams add (in Italian, of course) "Sorry for the macros in English".
      > How come? You bothered to type your pardon beg, why not typing all the rest in your native language to another ham sharing the same mother-language?

      exactly


      > In attachment, I try to add my own macros file.
      >

      good use of the different macro sets for different languages.

      These are my normal qso macros:

      // Macro # 2
      /$ 1 Answr @>|
      <TX><CALL> <CALL> de <MYCALL> <MYCALL> <MYCALL> kn\n
      <RX>
      //
      // Macro # 3
      /$ 2 QSO @>>
      <TX>\n
      <CALL> de <MYCALL>
      //
      // Macro # 4
      /$ 3 KN @||
      btu <NAME> <CALL> de <MYCALL> kn\n
      <RX>
      //
      // Macro # 5
      /$ 4 SK @||
      \n
      tnx fer QSO <NAME>, \n
      my qsl via bureau/lotw/eqsl.\n
      73, <CALL> de <MYCALL> sk\n
      <RX>
      //
      // Macro # 6
      /$ 5 Me
      my name is <MYNAME> <MYNAME>\n

      //
      // Macro # 7
      /$ 6 QTH
      my QTH is <MYQTH> <MYQTH>, loc: <MYLOC> <MYLOC> \n

      //
      // Macro # 8
      /$ 7 Brag
      I'm using an Elecraft K3, abt 30W into homemade antennas. \n
      Software is <VER> for Linux. \n

      //


      I have a shortened form of them also, like this:

      //
      // Macro # 19
      /$ 18 Brag
      Rig K3, 30W, homemade antennas. \n

      I can make a qso with these macro only, or use them interspersed in a
      conversation without it being too evident that's a canned reply.
      Or at least I hope so :-)

      Pf


      --
       Pierfrancesco Caci, ik5pvx
    • Brian Lloyd
      ... Well, we have Q-signals, ARRL message numbers for radio-grams, and we have canned macros. What this most likely tells us is that, we don t really have much
      Message 3 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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        On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:51 AM, Graham Saville <graham.saville@...> wrote:
         

        This Email was sent on 08/06/11 at 08:38
        In Reply to: Re: [linuxham] Canned Macros

        Hi All,

        Just one thing to remember and I have come up against this many times and that is if English is not your native language. Using "Canned Macros" may enable you to have a QSO all be it a "rubber stamp" QSO between an English speaking Station and a non-English speaking station. However if the English speaking station expects to have a Rag-chew its not going to happen.
        Bottom line is we have to remember that not everyone in the world speaks English and If "Canned Macros"  enable us to communicate with one and another then that is a good thing. If you like its Radio sign language!!!

        Well, we have Q-signals, ARRL message numbers for radio-grams, and we have canned macros. What this most likely tells us is that, we don't really have much to say that is original. Having a QSO in Q-signals or canned macros just makes it painfully clear. 

        Regardless, this is probably why I spend so little time in QSO and so much time fiddling with radio. It may seem strange but the effect of doppler and multipath on the CHU carrier, or looking at WSPR spots are far more interesting than 99.9% of QSOs are to me now.

        --
        Brian Lloyd, WB6RQN/J79BPL
        3191 Western Dr.
        Cameron Park, CA 95682
        brian@...
        +1.767.617.1365 (Dominica)
        +1.931.492.6776 (USA)
        (+1.931.4.WB6RQN)

      • Michael Coslo
        From: Ed ... Sure, I use a bragfile and CQ files and such, but when the conversation starts in earnest, I go all keyboard. Some don t, and
        Message 4 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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          From: Ed <autek@...>
          >
          >
          >Is there anyone out there that operates PSK31 that does not use canned
          >macros for the entire QSO ?
          >
          >My last Q, the station sent my formal name and not what I had sent him.
          >To clarify this, my name is Ed, my grandmother is the only person to
          >call me Edward and when she did I was in big trouble.


          Sure, I use a bragfile and CQ' files and such, but when the conversation starts
          in earnest, I go all keyboard. Some don't, and occasionally I'll get a "Thanks
          for the nice QSO, N3LI Michael J Coslo in State College, Pennsylvania. You are
          my QSO number 627 on 20 meter PSK31 and are entered in the log at 18:25:17 on
          February 30, 2011", or somesuch nonsense.

          Pretty silly stuff.

          Then again, on the opposite side of the coin, My worst issue with CW was all the
          abbreviations, shorthand and "L33t" language. That plus some Ops have pretty
          strange fists.

          Anyhow, I figured it out eventually. As for the macro fiends, If you start
          conversing with them, and ask a question or two that isn't likely to be in a
          macro, they tend to drop into normal typing.

          - 73 de Mike N3LI -
        • Michael Coslo
          ... Ask questions that aren t likely in the macro list. Force them to think. That being said, for DX work, they ll probably be in DX mode and won t be much you
          Message 5 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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            >From: "doc@..." <doc@...>

            >How do we break this pattern before it becomes so embedded in the
            >digital mode culture that it becomes impossible to change?


            Ask questions that aren't likely in the macro list. Force them to think.

            That being said, for DX work, they'll probably be in DX mode and won't be much
            you can do.

            I remember my very first 80 meter PSK31 QSO. The other Op and I typed away until
            I noticed it was 1:30 a.m. A 2 hour QSO. The old fingy's was tired. It was worth
            it, heck of a lot of fun.

            - 73 de MIke N3LI -
          • Don Poaps
            Olivia is a great program to chew the fat on. PSK moves to fast for my fat fingers. I myself do not have a weather station but I do like fact that your local
            Message 6 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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              Olivia is a great program to chew the fat on. PSK moves to fast for my fat fingers.
              I myself do not have a weather station but I do like fact that your local weather can be dumped into a conversation on the digital mode

              73

              Don

              Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone


              From: Michael Coslo <mcoslo@...>
              Sender: linuxham@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:05:37 -0700 (PDT)
              To: <linuxham@yahoogroups.com>
              ReplyTo: linuxham@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [linuxham] Canned Macros

               



              From: Ed <autek@...>

              >
              >
              >Is there anyone out there that operates PSK31 that does not use canned
              >macros for the entire QSO ?
              >
              >My last Q, the station sent my formal name and not what I had sent him.
              >To clarify this, my name is Ed, my grandmother is the only person to
              >call me Edward and when she did I was in big trouble.

              Sure, I use a bragfile and CQ' files and such, but when the conversation starts
              in earnest, I go all keyboard. Some don't, and occasionally I'll get a "Thanks
              for the nice QSO, N3LI Michael J Coslo in State College, Pennsylvania. You are
              my QSO number 627 on 20 meter PSK31 and are entered in the log at 18:25:17 on
              February 30, 2011", or somesuch nonsense.

              Pretty silly stuff.

              Then again, on the opposite side of the coin, My worst issue with CW was all the
              abbreviations, shorthand and "L33t" language. That plus some Ops have pretty
              strange fists.

              Anyhow, I figured it out eventually. As for the macro fiends, If you start
              conversing with them, and ask a question or two that isn't likely to be in a
              macro, they tend to drop into normal typing.

              - 73 de Mike N3LI -

            • Michael Coslo
              ... You mean you don t want to read about which version of Open Office I m using or the model and size LCD screen I m using, and the font? Definitely just
              Message 7 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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                >From: Larry Levesque <ka1vgm@...>

                >I threw the canned macros away for casual qso's after the first week on
                >psk31(can't remember how many years that has been now).
                >
                >It's kb to kb with me or expect I will not return your call especially
                >with those long-winded brag files.


                You mean you don't want to read about which version of Open Office I'm using or
                the model and size LCD screen I'm using, and the font?

                Definitely just kidding.

                -73 de Mike N3LI-
              • John Young
                That may explain why I am using JT65-hf rather than PSK31 73 John -- John D Young WA8KNE ETC USN retired
                Message 8 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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                  That may explain why I am using JT65-hf rather than PSK31

                  73 John

                  --
                  John D Young
                  WA8KNE
                  ETC USN retired



                  On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Ed <autek@...> wrote:
                   

                  Is there anyone out there that operates PSK31 that does not use canned
                  macros for the entire QSO ?

                  My last Q, the station sent my formal name and not what I had sent him.
                  To clarify this, my name is Ed, my grandmother is the only person to
                  call me Edward and when she did I was in big trouble.

                  My typing is far from perfect, but I understand there are hams out there
                  that for one reason or another have to rely on canned macros.

                  But surely not everyone.

                  Years ago there was a top notch CW op that was blind. He normal speed
                  was around 30 wpm, his wife entered the log info. He head copied and
                  never missed a beat.

                  Ed W3NR

                  Rant over





                • Michael Coslo
                  ... I m not a big fan of macros, but occasionally use some. It s no big deal. I like to get people to drop out of them when I can, but not everyone is going to
                  Message 9 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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                    >From: Dave Wright <hfradiopro@...>


                    >I value EVERY QSO. If the op on the other end wants to run macros, I can do
                    >that. If they want to chat, then I can do that too. I don't begrudge the other
                    >
                    >op to have a QSO that they may be comfortable with, and I know that if I really

                    >want to rag chew, then perhaps the next QSO will bring that. If I don't, then
                    >the macros will always be there.

                    I'm not a big fan of macros, but occasionally use some. It's no big deal.

                    I like to get people to drop out of them when I can, but not everyone is going
                    to . Still no big deal.

                    But we have to remember that there are Mike Primus types in the world who will
                    withold their communications with you if you don't communicate with them they
                    way they have to have it.

                    And that is also no big deal.

                    If someone is too good to talk to me, I'll take their word for it! 8^)

                    But your philosophy is a lot better.

                    - 73 de Mike N3LI -
                  • Michael Coslo
                    ... Well, we have Q-signals, ARRL message numbers for radio-grams, and we have canned macros. What this most likely tells us is that, we don t really have much
                    Message 10 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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                      >From: Brian Lloyd <brian-wb6rqn@...>

                      Well, we have Q-signals, ARRL message numbers for radio-grams, and we have
                      canned macros. What this most likely tells us is that, we don't really have much

                      to say that is original. Having a QSO in Q-signals or canned macros just makes
                      it painfully clear.

                      Regardless, this is probably why I spend so little time in QSO and so much time
                      fiddling with radio. It may seem strange but the effect of doppler and multipath

                      on the CHU carrier, or looking at WSPR spots are far more interesting than 99.9%

                      of QSOs are to me now.


                      That's kind of sad. Perhaps you have exhausted the hobby of possibilities?

                      - 73 de Mike N3LI -
                    • Jim Brown
                      I have uploaded the schematic and circuit description of the computer to radio interface I am using for FLDigi into the FILES section of LINUXHAM.  This
                      Message 11 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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                        I have uploaded the schematic and circuit description of the computer to radio interface I am using for FLDigi into the FILES section of LINUXHAM.  This interface does not use the rig control or serial or parallel port for PTT.  For laptops with limited I/O capability and for netbooks, this type interface can give complete ground isolation between the computer and the radio.  It overcomes the potential problems encountered when trying to use the radio VOX circuit to provide the PTT.

                        This interface uses the tone PTT output provided on the RIGHT output channel of the sound card while the data audio is provided by the LEFT output channel.  I find that it works very reliably with my TS-2000 and the radio cable can be modified for use with almost any type radio.

                        I would be glad to address any questions about this interface.

                        73 - Jim  W5ZIT  w5zit@...
                      • Brian Lloyd
                        ... No, not at all. There are lots of things to experiment with having to do with radio technology. It just means that, for the most part, the fun is not in
                        Message 12 of 30 , Jun 8, 2011
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                          On Jun 8, 2011, at 4:56 PM, Michael Coslo wrote:

                          > >From: Brian Lloyd <brian-wb6rqn@...>
                          >
                          >> Well, we have Q-signals, ARRL message numbers for radio-grams, and we have
                          >> canned macros. What this most likely tells us is that, we don't really have much
                          >> to say that is original. Having a QSO in Q-signals or canned macros just makes
                          >> it painfully clear.
                          >>
                          >> Regardless, this is probably why I spend so little time in QSO and so much time
                          >> fiddling with radio. It may seem strange but the effect of doppler and multipath
                          >> on the CHU carrier, or looking at WSPR spots are far more interesting than 99.9%
                          >> of QSOs are to me now.
                          >>
                          > That's kind of sad. Perhaps you have exhausted the hobby of possibilities?

                          No, not at all. There are lots of things to experiment with having to do with radio technology. It just means that, for the most part, the fun is not in the making of run-of-the-mill QSOs. I have friends I communicate with and I experiment with the effects of propagation on different modes. I just don't care if I have yet another call/name/RST/QTH/brag/WX/73 QSO. All that proves is that there is propagation to that location. If you work at it, you can probably reduce that QSO to 100 bits of data or less, e.g. essentially what JT65 and WSPR do.

                          But that is OK. The nice thing about Amateur Radio is that there is something for everybody. I am sure that the call/name/RST/QTH/brag/WX/73 QSO is exciting to some number of people.

                          --
                          Brian Lloyd 3191 Western Drive
                          brianl AT lloyd DOT com Cameron Park, CA 95682
                          +1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

                          PGP key ID: EEBBCEB1BD0671C0
                          PGP key fingerprint: 3E8B 35BC F840 3288 AAB4 9E44 EEBB CEB1 BD06 71C0
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