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Re: [OT] Why Skype? - was [linux] Re: Debian 7.0 released

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  • Scott
    ... Yes, that s what I was referring to when I mentioned my wife using it. In her case, Google s would work too. In this case, you are just calling any phone
    Message 1 of 22 , May 7 4:50 AM
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      On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 12:39:30PM +0100, Godwin Stewart wrote:
      > On 07/05/13 12:34, thad_floryan wrote:
      >
      > > Huh? Why? Skype cannot call a landline or a VoIP phones? I would
      > > not be surprised since Skype is *MICROSOFT*. :-)
      >
      > Skype *can* call PSTN lines, provided you add credit to a prepaid
      > account. I don't know if it'll call a SIP account, for example.

      Yes, that's what I was referring to when I mentioned my wife using it. In
      her case, Google's would work too. In this case, you are just calling any
      phone (and yes, both can call mobile phones, the rate is somewhat different
      though.)


      --
      Scott Robbins
      PGP keyID EB3467D6
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    • thad_floryan
      ... Hmmm. OK, well, I ve been out of the loop since 2008 when I had to shut down Levanta/Linuxcare when they went belly-up. ... Webcam and microphone/speakers
      Message 2 of 22 , May 7 5:05 AM
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        --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Godwin Stewart <grs.ygroups@...> wrote:
        > On 07/05/13 12:34, thad_floryan wrote:
        > > [...]
        > > Huh? Why? Skype cannot call a landline or a VoIP phones? I
        > > would not be surprised since Skype is *MICROSOFT*. :-)
        >
        > Skype *can* call PSTN lines, provided you add credit to a prepaid
        > account. I don't know if it'll call a SIP account, for example.

        Hmmm. OK, well, I've been out of the loop since 2008 when I had to
        shut down Levanta/Linuxcare when they went belly-up.

        > > What capability of Skype is necessary for a phone interview?
        >
        > If both interviewer and interviewee are using Skype then the
        > communication, often a video call, is free of charge. That's why
        > it's so attractive to some people.

        Webcam and microphone/speakers I presume. I've been doing that since
        2000 when I setup a conference room for Sigaba, and the "calls" were
        free then because they simply travelled the Internet.

        OK, I just checked; Skype began in 2003, 3 years after AFTER I had
        setup a video conference room using free software. Skype info here:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype

        I'm still not impressed. I'd usually be contacted by potential
        clients' calls that'd wake me up and I'd be unshaven, etc. So with
        Skype I'd have to shave, shower, and wear a 3-piece suit? Not for
        me -- the only time I wear a tie is for weddings and funerals. :-)

        > When I was looking for work some 18 months ago, numerous
        > interviewers wanted to use Skype to interview me. It's second best
        > to a face-to-face interview.

        Remote teleconferencing is nothing new -- that was what I setup in
        2000 with audio and video and the tech was already well-established.

        I see Microsoft (via Skype) capturing and archiving EVERYTHING just
        like Google does, which is why I don't use [much] Google stuff and
        I never sign in to anything Google-related and I dropped all vendors
        who forced customers to use Google Checkout. It's NONE OF THEIR DAMN
        BUSINESS wich is why I've been recommending the NoScript, Ghostery,
        and 'Google URL fix' for those who use Firefox like I do. The search
        link fix is a tricky one and here is info about it (the NoScript and
        Ghostery are quickly found using the AddOn search within Firefox):

        https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/google-search-link-fix/?src=cb-dl-hotness

        Download:
        https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/downloads/latest/351740/addon-351740-latest.xpi?src=search

        http://www.ghacks.net/2012/01/11/display-direct-website-links-in-google-search/

        http://www.consumingexperience.com/2009/10/google-search-results-redirection.html

        Thad
      • thad_floryan
        ... Meaning also no using the web or tech books or ??? when needing to quickly find an answer to a question. Nasty. :-) ... That s good. I know only what I
        Message 3 of 22 , May 7 5:24 AM
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          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
          > On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 11:34:47AM -0000, Thad Floryan wrote:
          > > [...]
          > > What capability of Skype is necessary for a phone interview? I
          > > don't understand your comments above.
          >
          > Some interviewers want to have video chat, and see you as you're
          > speaking.
          >
          > So, if they say Skype, as far as I know, one would have to be on a
          > Skype account to be available.
          >
          > > [...]
          > > You gonna do an employment "phone" interview unshaven and wearing
          > > only your bathrobe and fluffy-bunny slippers? I think not! :-)
          >
          > Again, this is video, so one dresses.

          Meaning also no using the web or tech books or ??? when needing to
          quickly find an answer to a question. Nasty. :-)

          > > [ ...re: New York City, Hurricane Sandy, lack of telecom ...]
          > I wouldn't say that most of the city didn't get it back. Parts.
          > In our case, we were quite fortunate, we never lost it.

          That's good. I know only what I read in the news and in the relevant
          groups regarding such outages. I presume much is exaggerated. :-)

          > (As far as I know, we almost never use the landline.)

          I gave up landlines (voice, modems, and FAX) in 2002 when it simply
          became too expensive.

          Thad
        • Godwin Stewart
          ... Sure. I don t dispute that there are plenty of alternatives to Skype. I don t think anyone is. Skype, however, for its sins, is *the* service that everyone
          Message 4 of 22 , May 7 5:29 AM
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            On 07/05/13 13:05, thad_floryan wrote:

            > Webcam and microphone/speakers I presume. I've been doing that since
            > 2000

            Sure. I don't dispute that there are plenty of alternatives to Skype. I
            don't think anyone is. Skype, however, for its sins, is *the* service
            that everyone knows.

            My own "PSTN" line is in fact VoIP based, hooked up to a SIP provider[1]
            that gives me a DID number. When I try to explain to people that it
            doesn't actually use a phone line but rather a DSL internet connection
            (which goes over a phone line - aaaarghhh!!), the reaction to that is
            invariably, "oh, you mean like Skype?"

            Justified and/or desirable or not, Skype is what people know about and
            tend to use. If a potential employer asks to set up a Skype call with
            you and you reply with "sorry, I don't use Skype, I use service XYZ
            instead, which does the same job without exposing my personal details to
            $HUGE_CONGLOMERATE", all you'll achieve is coming across like some kind
            of paranoid wingnut whose cellphone ringtone is the X-Files theme and
            who expects someone who might (but probably won't, now) end up paying
            your salary to switch to a tool that he's never heard of and doesn't
            have the privileges to install on his machine anyway without calling the
            IT department.

            It's a "like it or lump it" thing, much like MS-Word. All of the
            recruiters and employers I've dealt with demanded CVs in MS-Word format.
            OK, I used something else to produce it, but I had to provide something
            in *that* format, and I have to be able to open and use such documents too.

            Remember, we're dealing with the unwashed masses here :)

            > I'm still not impressed. I'd usually be contacted by potential
            > clients' calls that'd wake me up and I'd be unshaven, etc. So with
            > Skype I'd have to shave, shower, and wear a 3-piece suit? Not for
            > me -- the only time I wear a tie is for weddings and funerals. :-)

            :o)

            Most interviews via Skype calls are pre-planned so you have plenty of
            time to make yourself look presentable. For anything else you can still
            sit there unshaven in your underwear scratching your unmentionables...



            [1] - http://www.localphone.com/

            --
            Godwin Stewart -- <grs.ygroups@...>
          • thad_floryan
            ... OK. :-) I don t have to worry about interviews anymore. Speaking of which, there was an interesting comment today here:
            Message 5 of 22 , May 8 11:50 PM
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              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Godwin Stewart <grs.ygroups@...> wrote:
              > On 07/05/13 13:05, thad_floryan wrote:
              > > [...]
              > [...]
              > Justified and/or desirable or not, Skype is what people know about
              > and tend to use. If a potential employer asks to set up a Skype call
              > with you and you reply with "sorry, I don't use Skype, I use service
              > XYZ instead, which does the same job without exposing my personal
              > details to $HUGE_CONGLOMERATE", all you'll achieve is coming across
              > like some kind of paranoid wingnut whose cellphone ringtone is the
              > X-Files theme and who expects someone who might (but probably won't,
              > now) end up paying your salary to switch to a tool that he's never
              > heard of and doesn't have the privileges to install on his machine
              > anyway without calling the IT department.

              OK. :-)

              I don't have to worry about interviews anymore. Speaking of which,
              there was an interesting comment today here:

              http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/Cheaters-Never-Prosper.aspx

              " ALWAYS test candidates' coding ability:
              "
              " http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html
              "
              " I interviewed one guy who spent over an hour trying to write a
              " a FizzBuzz routine. He had a masters degree in CS.

              I did much the same (testing candidates who were recent Stanford CS
              grads) and many simply did not qualify. I'm sure you remember my
              prior comments here about the falsehood of software "engineering". :-)

              > It's a "like it or lump it" thing, much like MS-Word. All of the
              > recruiters and employers I've dealt with demanded CVs in MS-Word
              > format. OK, I used something else to produce it, but I had to
              > provide something in *that* format, and I have to be able to open
              > and use such documents too.

              I've seen similar comments to yours many times before in groups and
              forums, but I never understood it because it wasn't clear whether the
              document had to be in raw "DOC" format or whether a finished PDF would
              suffice. FWIW, the last resume/CV I wrote was back in the 1960s using
              a typewriter for the Electronic Defense Labs -- I was already hired
              and they simply wanted "something" for their personnel records; I have
              never needed or prepared one since then.

              > Remember, we're dealing with the unwashed masses here :)

              Ah, yes, the GUM (Great Unwashed Masses). :-)

              > [...]
              > Most interviews via Skype calls are pre-planned so you have plenty
              > of time to make yourself look presentable. For anything else you
              > can still sit there unshaven in your underwear scratching your
              > unmentionables...

              Learn something new every day. Thank you and Scott Robbins for taking
              the time to explain the "Skype Requirement"; I was unaware of it,

              I also don't use Fecebook, LinkedIn, Twitter or anything similar.

              Thad
            • Godwin Stewart
              ... Indeed I do, and I agree that a degree does not a good programmer make. Perhaps a good analyst, but not a good programmer. ... No, they usually demand a
              Message 6 of 22 , May 9 1:39 AM
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                On 09/05/13 07:50, thad_floryan wrote:

                > I did much the same (testing candidates who were recent Stanford CS
                > grads) and many simply did not qualify. I'm sure you remember my
                > prior comments here about the falsehood of software "engineering". :-)

                Indeed I do, and I agree that a degree does not a good programmer make.
                Perhaps a good analyst, but not a good programmer.

                > I've seen similar comments to yours many times before in groups and
                > forums, but I never understood it because it wasn't clear whether the
                > document had to be in raw "DOC" format or whether a finished PDF would
                > suffice.

                No, they usually demand a .doc (or .docx if you're lucky) file.

                From April 2012 to last month I served on the Area Executive of the
                National Association of Round Tables of Britain and Ireland as
                Membership, Media-PR and Internet Officer. I had to provide my quarterly
                reports to the Area Secretary in .doc files as well because he had to
                copy/paste the content of them into a master document that was
                distributed electronically to Area members prior to the meetings.

                A few years ago, when I was still translating liner notes for a record
                company based in Germany, they too demanded .doc files. With them I
                managed to get around that by actually providing HTML documents renamed
                as .doc and MS-Word their end would open it and display it correctly
                anyway. Not sure if I could get away with that with recruiters :)

                > I also don't use Fecebook, LinkedIn, Twitter or anything similar.

                I don't use Facebook any more. I did for a couple of years, or at least
                I had a Facebook account, but never really used it anyway so I deleted
                it altogether a few months ago.

                I do use twitter. It's a good means of keeping abreast of news and what
                friends across the globe are doing but without the extraneous cr4p and
                incessant "friend requests", invitations and various other unnecessary
                notifications. You stay much more in control of what you get in your inbox.

                This one's me: https://twitter.com/grshorwich

                --
                Godwin Stewart -- <grs.ygroups@...>
              • Scott
                ... Actually, they (the interviewing people), will probably just say Fine, never mind. Right now, it s a buyer s market. On some news page or another the
                Message 7 of 22 , May 9 3:16 AM
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                  On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 06:50:56AM -0000, Thad Floryan wrote:


                  > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Godwin Stewart <grs.ygroups@...> wrote:
                  > > On 07/05/13 13:05, thad_floryan wrote:
                  > > > [...]
                  > > [...]
                  > > Justified and/or desirable or not, Skype is what people know about
                  > > and tend to use. If a potential employer asks to set up a Skype call
                  > > with you and you reply with "sorry, I don't use Skype, I use service
                  > > XYZ instead, which does the same job without exposing my personal
                  > > details to $HUGE_CONGLOMERATE", all you'll achieve is coming across
                  > > like some kind of paranoid wingnut whose cellphone ringtone is the
                  > > X-Files theme and who expects someone who might (but probably won't,
                  > > now) end up paying your salary to switch to a tool that he's never
                  > > heard of and doesn't have the privileges to install on his machine
                  > > anyway without calling the IT department.

                  Actually, they (the interviewing people), will probably just say Fine,
                  never mind. Right now, it's a buyer's market. On some news page or
                  another the other day, in one column, it mentioned jobless claims being
                  down and in the adjoining column it mentioned an increase in suicide rates
                  amongst 50 somethings, and quite seriously, I wondered if there was a
                  connection.
                  >

                  > > It's a "like it or lump it" thing, much like MS-Word. All of the
                  > > recruiters and employers I've dealt with demanded CVs in MS-Word
                  > > format. OK, I used something else to produce it, but I had to
                  > > provide something in *that* format, and I have to be able to open
                  > > and use such documents too.

                  Yes, the vast majority say attach a Word resume. Some put resume must be
                  in pdf format (and often at the bottom, with at least one saying, To prove
                  you've read the entire thing, send your resume in pdf format). One can
                  produce the doc in Open or Libre Office, and export to PDF. This includes
                  Linux positions.

                  > > Most interviews via Skype calls are pre-planned so you have plenty
                  > > of time to make yourself look presentable. For anything else you
                  > > can still sit there unshaven in your underwear scratching your
                  > > unmentionables...
                  >
                  > Learn something new every day. Thank you and Scott Robbins for taking
                  > the time to explain the "Skype Requirement"; I was unaware of it,
                  >
                  In my case, there was one interviewer (the posting was for, among other
                  things, using Google apps), who wanted to use Google hangout, and two
                  others, both in California (I'm in NY, 3000 miles away), who requested
                  Skype.


                  > I also don't use Fecebook, LinkedIn, Twitter or anything similar.

                  My wife finds Facebook handy for her studio, and I believe she uses Twitter
                  as well. In her case, they're good tools for her needs. I don't use
                  them, though I am on LinkedIn. I haven't found it too useful for a job
                  search though and I see people I don't know recommending me for things I
                  can't do. Well, not entirely true, but one person recommended me for
                  things that I do not consider strengths and this person doesn't know me
                  save through linkedin. On the other hand, I have gotten recommendations
                  from people such as former bosses, so that part's good.


                  --
                  Scott Robbins
                  PGP keyID EB3467D6
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                  gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
                • Scott
                  ... Why docx if you re lucky? I ve been saving in .doc (the one usually labeled XP/2000/2003 format.) Is docx preferable. As a quick aside, I m finding that
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 9 3:20 AM
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                    On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 09:39:13AM +0100, Godwin Stewart wrote:
                    > On 09/05/13 07:50, thad_floryan wrote:
                    >
                    > > I've seen similar comments to yours many times before in groups and
                    > > forums, but I never understood it because it wasn't clear whether the
                    > > document had to be in raw "DOC" format or whether a finished PDF would
                    > > suffice.
                    >
                    > No, they usually demand a .doc (or .docx if you're lucky) file.

                    Why docx if you're lucky? I've been saving in .doc (the one usually
                    labeled XP/2000/2003 format.) Is docx preferable.

                    As a quick aside, I'm finding that both OpenOffice and LibreOffice have
                    trouble with some docx documents--it seems to be connected to whether or
                    not there are images, and it's only happened on about three files (all,
                    ironically, for Linux jobs).

                    > A few years ago, when I was still translating liner notes for a record
                    > company based in Germany, they too demanded .doc files. With them I
                    > managed to get around that by actually providing HTML documents renamed
                    > as .doc and MS-Word their end would open it and display it correctly
                    > anyway. Not sure if I could get away with that with recruiters :)

                    See my earlier email. In this somewhat tight market, I wouldn't try to
                    force the recruiters to do it my way.



                    --
                    Scott Robbins
                    PGP keyID EB3467D6
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                  • Godwin Stewart
                    ... Lucky in that you re dealing with someone who isn t forced to use decade-old software. They might be a bit less of an IT dinosaur where you re applying for
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 9 3:25 AM
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                      On 09/05/13 11:20, Scott wrote:

                      >> No, they usually demand a .doc (or .docx if you're lucky) file.
                      >
                      > Why docx if you're lucky? I've been saving in .doc (the one usually
                      > labeled XP/2000/2003 format.) Is docx preferable.

                      Lucky in that you're dealing with someone who isn't forced to use
                      decade-old software. They might be a bit less of an IT dinosaur where
                      you're applying for the job.

                      As far as I know, there's little advantage to .docx over .doc from a
                      technical point of view.

                      > As a quick aside, I'm finding that both OpenOffice and LibreOffice have
                      > trouble with some docx documents--it seems to be connected to whether or
                      > not there are images, and it's only happened on about three files (all,
                      > ironically, for Linux jobs).

                      I've noticed the same thing too. If you print the document the images
                      don't come out. However, I think I was able to get it working properly
                      by saving as either a .doc or a .odt, opening that and then printing.

                      > See my earlier email. In this somewhat tight market, I wouldn't try to
                      > force the recruiters to do it my way.

                      Exactly!

                      --
                      Godwin Stewart -- <grs.ygroups@...>
                    • Scott
                      ... I would find that I d open it and get a blank page. I still have one around and just tried testing your solution of saving as doc and odt, and no
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 9 3:59 AM
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                        On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 11:25:56AM +0100, Godwin Stewart wrote:
                        > On 09/05/13 11:20, Scott wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > > As a quick aside, I'm finding that both OpenOffice and LibreOffice have
                        > > trouble with some docx documents--it seems to be connected to whether or
                        > > not there are images, and it's only happened on about three files (all,
                        > > ironically, for Linux jobs).
                        >
                        > I've noticed the same thing too. If you print the document the images
                        > don't come out. However, I think I was able to get it working properly
                        > by saving as either a .doc or a .odt, opening that and then printing.

                        I would find that I'd open it and get a blank page. I still have one
                        around and just tried testing your solution of saving as doc and odt, and
                        no luck--with doc, there was some print, but not enough to make sense of
                        it. What I have done is either upload it to google docs which has been
                        able to read it, or just transfer it to my wife's Mac which can read it
                        with either Mac Office or Pages.

                        Actually, I see I can just email it to my gmail account and that, I assume,
                        uses google docs to view it.


                        --
                        Scott Robbins
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                      • Godwin Stewart
                        ... Yep, that should work. And if you have cloud print set up you can print directly to your printer from there. -- Godwin Stewart --
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 9 4:01 AM
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                          On 09/05/13 11:59, Scott wrote:

                          > Actually, I see I can just email it to my gmail account and that, I assume,
                          > uses google docs to view it.

                          Yep, that should work. And if you have cloud print set up you can print
                          directly to your printer from there.

                          --
                          Godwin Stewart -- <grs.ygroups@...>
                        • Scott
                          ... Ah, that s very cool, I should probably set that up too. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 9 4:40 AM
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                            On Thu, May 09, 2013 at 12:01:40PM +0100, Godwin Stewart wrote:
                            > On 09/05/13 11:59, Scott wrote:
                            >
                            > > Actually, I see I can just email it to my gmail account and that, I assume,
                            > > uses google docs to view it.
                            >
                            > Yep, that should work. And if you have cloud print set up you can print
                            > directly to your printer from there.


                            Ah, that's very cool, I should probably set that up too.

                            --
                            Scott Robbins
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