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Re: Fedora does it again

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  • thad_floryan
    ... Many thanks for the above URLs; I haven t had time yet to read the Slashdot daily today, been educating folks on the Usenet ba.internet group about the
    Message 1 of 7 , May 4, 2013
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      --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
      >
      > Sigh. I really don't get these folks at Fedora.
      >
      > So ... the latest brilliant idea is to not obfuscate the password
      > during installation. I have no idea what the logic was, probably
      > something to do with smart phones. A bug was filed, the guy closed
      > it as not a bug or won't fix.
      >
      > So, one of the better developers, who has experience as a sysadmin,
      > re-opened it. There's a reasonable chance this one might get
      > quashed, as it made the front page of slashdot.
      >
      > The inane comment by the developer was, Oh, someone can watch what
      > you're typing, it's the same thing.
      >
      > Slashdot article
      >
      > http://it.slashdot.org/story/13/05/04/1248242/fedora-19-to-stop-masking-passwords
      >
      > Bugzilla discussion.
      > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=958608
      > The article also has a link to the mailing list. The best comment,
      > in my opinion, was on the slashdot list, where someone said, maybe
      > I do install publicly, maybe I'm giving a demo, but whatever, don't
      > make assumptions of how I'm going to be using it.

      Many thanks for the above URLs; I haven't had time yet to read the
      Slashdot daily today, been "educating" folks on the Usenet ba.internet
      group about the Cisco RVS4000 and how it's the best bargain so far in
      the 21st Century from Newegg. More about that later though I might
      just put up a web page since I'm really surprised no one here has even
      asked about it though it has a built-in managed 4-port LAN switch,
      jumbo frames, 800Mbps WAN <-> LAN throughput with the firewall and IPS
      enabled (as I have it set) -- it's the best $55 I've ever spent for
      somehting that can also do IPv4 <=> IPv6, NAT, VLANs and VPN. I am
      seriously thinking of buying 10+ more from Newegg @ $55 each and
      selling them for $550 each once Newegg's stock is depleted. Cisco's
      docs blow, as usual, and I'll make additional $$$ consulting others
      how to configure the gigabit router.

      Back to the password issue: I was absolutely shocked, *S*H*O*C*K*E*D*
      mind you, to NOT see Poettering's name appear in association with this
      password FUBAR'd mess. Did Red Hat clone Poettering like Dolly:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_(sheep)

      http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/02/14/cloned.dolly.dies/

      If so, that's a remarkable technological achievement! :-)

      Thad









      >
      > Sigh, I really wish that Canonical would start jumping on these continuing
      > Fedora desktop oriented decisions, and take enough of the server market so
      > that RH would start paying attention to the ones who actually pay them.
      >
      > Can you imagine what the Linux folks would have said about Apple or MS had
      > this decision been made for Windows or Mac?
      >
      >
      > --
      > Scott Robbins
      > PGP keyID EB3467D6
      > ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
      > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
      >
    • Scott
      ... Apparently, this idea has been quashed, judging from a git commit posted by one of the RH people on the Fedora forums.
      Message 2 of 7 , May 6, 2013
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        On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 11:35:23PM -0400, Scott wrote:
        > Sigh. I really don't get these folks at Fedora.
        >
        > So...the latest brilliant idea is to not obfuscate the password during
        > installation. I have no idea what the logic was, probably something to do
        > with smart phones. A bug was filed, the guy closed it as not a bug or
        > won't fix.
        >
        Apparently, this idea has been quashed, judging from a git commit posted by
        one of the RH people on the Fedora forums.

        https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/anaconda.git/commit/?id=da565b769979a031f318dbc727b9888e4f1fb37c

        --
        Scott Robbins
        PGP keyID EB3467D6
        ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
        gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
      • thad_floryan
        ... Hi Scott, That s good, but consider all the time and effort wasted due to someone randomly changing things without a good reason or having any discussion
        Message 3 of 7 , May 7, 2013
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          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
          > On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 11:35:23PM -0400, Scott wrote:
          > > Sigh. I really don't get these folks at Fedora.
          > >
          > > So...the latest brilliant idea is to not obfuscate the password
          > > during installation. I have no idea what the logic was, probably
          > > something to do with smart phones. A bug was filed, the guy
          > > closed it as not a bug or won't fix.
          > >
          > Apparently, this idea has been quashed, judging from a git commit
          > posted by one of the RH people on the Fedora forums.
          >
          > https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/anaconda.git/commit/?id=da565b769979a031f318dbc727b9888e4f1fb37c

          Hi Scott,

          That's good, but consider all the time and effort wasted due to someone
          randomly changing things without a good reason or having any discussion
          about the desire or need for such a proposed change.

          Just another example of the disorganization and sloppy thinking by the
          folks at Red Hat.

          Similarly, AFAIK (since I didn't allow my CentOS system to update to
          6.04 from 6.03) the login window regression bug still exists since I
          didn't see any notice about it in the release notes for either RH 6.04
          or CentOS 6.04 -- the release notes generally _do_ differ subtly.

          Thad
        • Scott
          ... Oh, believe me, I agree. I think that an intelligent rival in the server market, offering something a little more sysadmin oriented might really have a
          Message 4 of 7 , May 7, 2013
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            On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 08:37:23AM -0000, Thad Floryan wrote:
            > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
            > > On Sat, May 04, 2013 at 11:35:23PM -0400, Scott wrote:
            > > >
            > > Apparently, this idea has been quashed, judging from a git commit
            > > posted by one of the RH people on the Fedora forums.
            > >
            > > https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/anaconda.git/commit/?id=da565b769979a031f318dbc727b9888e4f1fb37c
            >
            > Hi Scott,
            >
            > That's good, but consider all the time and effort wasted due to someone
            > randomly changing things without a good reason or having any discussion
            > about the desire or need for such a proposed change.

            >
            > Just another example of the disorganization and sloppy thinking by the
            > folks at Red Hat.

            Oh, believe me, I agree. I think that an intelligent rival in the server
            market, offering something a little more sysadmin oriented might really
            have a chance. As it is, they're almost like Windows, so entrenched that
            folks are more likely to work around their bad decisions than replace them.

            >
            > Similarly, AFAIK (since I didn't allow my CentOS system to update to
            > 6.04 from 6.03) the login window regression bug still exists since I
            > didn't see any notice about it in the release notes for either RH 6.04
            > or CentOS 6.04 -- the release notes generally _do_ differ subtly.

            Ah yes--that bug was filed by CentOS folks, IIRC. I think I'm on it
            actually.
            Yup, reported by Alan, one of people with Elrepo, and bumped by him in
            February. Yeah, it will probably just be ignored.

            In fairness, not that many people use RH desktops, and most server installs
            don't have Gnome. However, yes, it's the sort of thing for a desktop that
            shouldn't be the default in a server, and it's something that not even
            Windows XP does if you're part of a domain. (In a workgroup, IIRC, XP
            shows all names--Win7 probably does too.)



            --
            Scott Robbins
            PGP keyID EB3467D6
            ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
            gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
          • thad_floryan
            ... For those curious what Scott and I are discussing, here are some screenshots I captured previously. Note the RedHat 9 system is 2003 and it works
            Message 5 of 7 , May 7, 2013
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              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
              > On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 08:37:23AM -0000, Thad Floryan wrote:
              > > [...]
              > > Similarly, AFAIK (since I didn't allow my CentOS system to
              > > update to 6.04 from 6.03) the login window regression bug still
              > > exists since I didn't see any notice about it in the release
              > > notes for either RH 6.04 or CentOS 6.04 -- the release notes
              > > generally _do_ differ subtly.
              >
              > Ah yes--that bug was filed by CentOS folks, IIRC. I think I'm on it
              > actually.
              > Yup, reported by Alan, one of people with Elrepo, and bumped by him in
              > February. Yeah, it will probably just be ignored.

              For those curious what Scott and I are discussing, here are some
              screenshots I captured previously. Note the RedHat 9 system is 2003
              and it works correctly; CentOS 6.3 is 2012 and it's hosed (and both
              are from Red Hat):

              http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_CentOS6.jpg 150kB
              http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_RedHat9.jpg 181kB
              http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_Vista.jpg 197kB
              http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_Win7.jpg 201kB
              http://thadlabs.com/PIX/login_WinXP.jpg 164kB

              Not my best photography and I stupidly neglected to write down what I
              did for this screenshot of one of my laptop's BIOSs:

              http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Lat_D600_BIOS_pg_1.jpg 248kB

              when Alanna and I were comparing our "identical" Dell Latitude D600s:

              http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Lat_D600_BIOS_pg_1_Alanna.jpg 85kB


              > In fairness, not that many people use RH desktops, and most server
              > installs don't have Gnome. However, yes, it's the sort of thing
              > for a desktop that shouldn't be the default in a server, and it's
              > something that not even Windows XP does if you're part of a domain.
              > In a workgroup, IIRC, XP shows all names -- Win7 probably does too.

              Correct, see above pix; domain=THADLABS which is also set on all my
              SheevaPlugs running Ubuntu and the GuruPlug running Debian regarding
              Samba.

              Thad
            • Scott
              ... And here is the bugzilla report I was discussing. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=666220 -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6
              Message 6 of 7 , May 7, 2013
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                On Tue, May 07, 2013 at 10:32:04AM -0000, Thad Floryan wrote:
                >
                > For those curious what Scott and I are discussing, here are some
                > screenshots I captured previously.

                And here is the bugzilla report I was discussing.

                https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=666220

                --
                Scott Robbins
                PGP keyID EB3467D6
                ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
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