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Re: [linux] we're not gonna take it

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  • Brad Rogers
    ... Hash: SHA256 On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 19:56:14 +0100 Godwin Stewart wrote: Hello Godwin, ... I really should have seen that coming,
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 6, 2012
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      On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 19:56:14 +0100
      Godwin Stewart <grs.ygroups@...> wrote:

      Hello Godwin,

      >On 06/10/12 19:44, Brad Rogers wrote:
      >> Finally, just how *do* you get your favourite artists(es) to sign an
      >> MP3? :-)
      >With GnuPG? :)

      I really should have seen that coming, shouldn't I? :-)

      - --
      Regards _
      / ) "The blindingly obvious is
      / _)rad never immediately apparent"
      Junk floats on polluted water
      Hong Kong Garden - Siouxsie & The Banshees
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    • Brad Rogers
      ... Hash: SHA256 On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:02:43 +0100 Godwin Stewart wrote: Hello Godwin, ... Murphy s Law in action. - -- Regards _ /
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 6, 2012
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        On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:02:43 +0100
        Godwin Stewart <grs.ygroups@...> wrote:

        Hello Godwin,

        >Kind of ironic that I should mess up the signature on that previous
        >mail of mine...

        Murphy's Law in action.

        - --
        Regards _
        / ) "The blindingly obvious is
        / _)rad never immediately apparent"
        It's your life so go your own way
        Questions And Answers - Sham 69
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      • John O'Donnell
        ... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/the-cd-turns-30_n_1930058.html#slide=1586774 This made me sick this week as it all applies even more to vinyl than
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 6, 2012
          On 10/06/2012 02:44 PM, Brad Rogers wrote:
          > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
          > Hash: SHA256
          >
          > On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 14:15:33 -0400
          > John O'Donnell <unixjohn1969@... <mailto:unixjohn1969%40gmail.com>> wrote:
          >
          > Hello John,
          >
          > >Vinyl disappeared? ;-)
          >
          > I didn't mean to imply it has. On the contrary, there's something of a
          > resurgence in interest going on. The thing is though, kids don't seem to
          > be buying it. Or CDs for that matter. They're more into MP3s. Which
          > has got the record companies laughing all the way to the bank; Sound
          > quality is truly shit, you pay more per track, and get far less (no
          > picture sleeve, liner notes, etc.) for your money. TO say nothing of the
          > complete lack of distribution costs. Plus, of course, kids rarely, if
          > ever, back anything up so when the lose their MP3 player, or their hard
          > drive goes belly up, they've had it. No, I'd far rather have a physical
          > object.
          >
          > Finally, just how *do* you get your favourite artists(es) to sign an
          > MP3? :-)


          http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/01/the-cd-turns-30_n_1930058.html#slide=1586774

          This made me sick this week as it all applies even more to vinyl than CD

          PUKING!
          John

          --
          === Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away.===
          +================================+==================================+
          | John O'Donnell | |
          | (Sr. Systems Engineer, | http://juanisan.homeip.net |
          | Net Admin, Programmer, etc.) | E-Mail: unixjohn1969@... |
          +================================+==================================+
          No man is useless who has a friend, and if we are loved we are
          indispensable. -- Robert Louis Stevenson
        • Brad Rogers
          ... Hash: SHA256 On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:04:27 -0400 John O Donnell wrote: Hello John, ... Indeed. Especially the cover art. CDs make
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
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            On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 20:04:27 -0400
            John O'Donnell <unixjohn1969@...> wrote:

            Hello John,

            >This made me sick this week as it all applies even more to vinyl than CD

            Indeed. Especially the cover art. CDs make little impact in that
            direction. Only the Pet Shop Boys - Very managed to do anything with CD
            covers, AFAIAA, by making it a tactile experience. The size of CDs is
            just too small for any image to have a real impact.

            I may not mourn the passing of Yes and their ilk, but Roger Dean's
            artwork was something to behold.

            - --
            Regards _
            / ) "The blindingly obvious is
            / _)rad never immediately apparent"
            Junk floats on polluted water
            Hong Kong Garden - Siouxsie & The Banshees
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          • thad_floryan
            ... I still have a bunch of LPs, 45s, and EPs, some very exotic, such as one EP (a 45 with 2 songs per side) of The Beatles singing in German. And a bunch of
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, John O'Donnell <unixjohn1969@...> wrote:
              > [...]
              > Odd. I still buy records. Hugh Laurie did a wonderful Louisiana
              > style blues record "Let Them Talk" last year. Stephen Colbert with
              > The Black Belles has a 45rpm disc that has a groovy tune (Just
              > ordered his latest book "America Again:
              > Re-becoming the Greatness We Never Weren't"). But I digress. Go
              > look at towerrecords.com and search vinyl.
              >
              > Vinyl disappeared? ;-)

              I still have a bunch of LPs, 45s, and EPs, some very exotic, such as
              one EP (a 45 with 2 songs per side) of The Beatles singing in German.
              And a bunch of 12" LPs that play at 45RPM (not 33-1/3 RPM) of jazz. And
              a 40-LP set of "The History of Spanish Music" which spans over 1000
              years [mostly singing, many a cappella] which I got from the Musical
              Heritage Society [now defunct] along with their specific version of
              the Pachelbel "Canon in D" which won many world-wide awards.

              But one of the real losses was with laserdiscs because the albums were
              the same physical size as 12" LPs and there would be a lot of artwork
              and program notes especially with boxed sets. I have about 5000 LDs
              and about the same number (I really haven't counted) of DVDs. Here's
              a laserdisc album front and back cover for the Linda Ronstadt edition
              of the Gilbert & Sullivan "Pirates of Penzance" which is an exquisite
              performance with gorgeous color and sound:

              <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/LD_Pirates_of_Penzance_front.jpg> 201kB
              <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/LD_Pirates_of_Penzance_back.jpg> 1.4MB

              The backside JPEG is larger because I made sure all the program notes
              were readable. Here's another example showing the inside gatefold
              artwork for ROBINSON CRUSOE ON MARS, and the "disc+label" JPEG shows
              the prismatic LD colors:

              <http://thadlabs.com/LD_info/Covers/RCOM/jacket_front.jpg>
              <http://thadlabs.com/LD_info/Covers/RCOM/jacket_back.jpg>
              <http://thadlabs.com/LD_info/Covers/RCOM/jacket_gatefold.jpg>
              <http://thadlabs.com/LD_info/Covers/RCOM/disc+label.jpg>
              <http://thadlabs.com/LD_info/Covers/RCOM/Chapters.txt>

              The "jacket_back" JPEG shows the jacket has text but I didn't have my
              Nikon cameras then so it's not large enough to actually read. Some
              info about laserdiscs can be seen here though I haven't updated that
              page since probably 2000.

              Many laserdiscs have much better sound than their corresponding DVDs
              during DVD's early years because the studios made the assumption that
              laserdisc aficionados had expensive audio gear (which was true) whereas
              DVD users would play the audio through crappy 2-1/2" TV-set speakers
              (which also was true) so the laserdisc audio was mastered better and
              also was the first to achieve THX certification (long before DVDs).

              I have two home theaters both of which are THX-equipped. My larger
              setup has a 2 HP (horsepower (1500 Watts)) audio system with two
              sub-woofers and is capable of shaking night lamps out of their
              sockets 3 rooms away which actually happened when I once played the
              movie "SET IT OFF" <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117603/> during a
              police chase scene and it actually felt like 2 helicopters were trying
              to land on my home's roof -- that was when I operated at THX reference
              level and I now play between -11dB to -15dB to prevent any recurrences
              of that situation. Whenever I play JURRASSIC PARK, however, it's back
              to THX level so I can make outside puddles of water "ripple" like in
              the movie itself when the T-Rex stomps around. :-)

              Thad
            • thad_floryan
              ... Oops, the copy n paste didn t get pasted:
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
                --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                > [...]
                > ... Some
                > info about laserdiscs can be seen here though I haven't updated that
                > page since probably 2000 given it still looks like my 1993 HTML style
                > to also work with text-only browsers E.g. lynx).
                > [...]

                Oops, the copy'n'paste didn't get pasted:

                <http://thadlabs.com/LD_info/index.html>

                :-)
              • Brad Rogers
                ... Hash: SHA256 On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:15:59 -0000 thad_floryan wrote: Hello thad_floryan, ... The most esoteric, rather than exotic,
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
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                  On Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:15:59 -0000
                  "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:

                  Hello thad_floryan,

                  >I still have a bunch of LPs, 45s, and EPs, some very exotic, such as

                  The most esoteric, rather than exotic, record I came across was an LP
                  with 3 sides. This was on one disc, BTW. Sides 2 and 3 occupied the
                  same side of the disc, but had two concentric grooves. As such, it was
                  hit and miss as to which 'side' you got.

                  Who was it by? Monty Python. Who else?

                  - --
                  Regards _
                  / ) "The blindingly obvious is
                  / _)rad never immediately apparent"
                  I must be hallucinating, watching angels celebrating
                  There Must Be An Angel (Playing With My Heart) - Eurythmics
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                • ed
                  ... There is some advantage with a CD that the artist/label can shovel a whole load of junk onto a CD data track that the end user gets to enjoy and
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
                    On Sun, Oct 07, 2012 at 09:16:57AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
                    > Indeed. Especially the cover art. CDs make little impact in that
                    > direction. Only the Pet Shop Boys - Very managed to do anything with CD
                    > covers, AFAIAA, by making it a tactile experience. The size of CDs is
                    > just too small for any image to have a real impact.

                    There is some advantage with a CD that the artist/label can shovel a
                    whole load of junk onto a CD data track that the end user gets to
                    'enjoy' and 'experience' some other marketing material.

                    Digital music is a trade off, vinyl can wear out, a stylus isn't
                    frictionless, the two record players I had were fitted with the best
                    anti-static that I cold afford but dust would still build up and cause
                    the occasional pop or crackle.

                    CDs do go mouldy, I've disposed of some more discs this year. I have no
                    idea how the mould gets there.

                    Ripping to FLAC may be the only sensible thing I can do these days.
                    Vinly just sounds so much better than digital, perhaps its down to the
                    electrical interference from a computer that things just sound rougher
                    or limitations of the format, or something else, shame 128k/44hz is the
                    norm.

                    Slightly worrying is that kids today don't appreciate what they're
                    missing out on. This could be due to them walking around with their mini
                    ghetto blasters in the form of a generic mobile with a youtube app.

                    --
                    Best regards,
                    Ed http://www.s5h.net/
                  • ed
                    ... Marvellous! I wonder if similar tom foolery is possible with a CD tracks, probably not... -- Best regards, Ed http://www.s5h.net/
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
                      On Sun, Oct 07, 2012 at 11:59:27AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
                      > The most esoteric, rather than exotic, record I came across was an LP
                      > with 3 sides. This was on one disc, BTW. Sides 2 and 3 occupied the
                      > same side of the disc, but had two concentric grooves. As such, it was
                      > hit and miss as to which 'side' you got.
                      >
                      > Who was it by? Monty Python. Who else?

                      Marvellous! I wonder if similar tom foolery is possible with a CD tracks,
                      probably not...

                      --
                      Best regards,
                      Ed http://www.s5h.net/
                    • Brad Rogers
                      ... Hash: SHA256 On Sun, 7 Oct 2012 13:30:04 +0100 ed wrote: Hello ed, ... There is that, yes. Although if the CDs I have with data tracks, only,
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
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                        On Sun, 7 Oct 2012 13:30:04 +0100
                        ed <ed@...> wrote:

                        Hello ed,

                        >There is some advantage with a CD that the artist/label can shovel a
                        >whole load of junk onto a CD data track that the end user gets to
                        >'enjoy' and 'experience' some other marketing material.

                        There is that, yes. Although if the CDs I have with data tracks, only,
                        err, none of them gets utilised in that way. Quite simply, I can't be
                        bothered. Sometimes, even once. It's like the 'bonus' audio tracks
                        they often add to releases. There's often a *reason* that those tracks
                        didn't make the initial release - they're rubbish.

                        >Digital music is a trade off, vinyl can wear out, a stylus isn't
                        >frictionless, the two record players I had were fitted with the best
                        >anti-static that I cold afford but dust would still build up and cause
                        >the occasional pop or crackle.

                        Plus the occasional miss-pressing that causes vinyl to jump. I'm sure
                        there are other things, too.

                        >CDs do go mouldy, I've disposed of some more discs this year. I have no
                        >idea how the mould gets there.

                        That's not one I've come across, thankfully.

                        >electrical interference from a computer that things just sound rougher
                        >or limitations of the format, or something else, shame 128k/44hz is the
                        >norm.

                        I believe that technologically speaking, it was possible to get a much
                        higher sampling rate and therefore better audio quality right from day
                        one. The problem was one of cost. The equipment would have been
                        prohibitively expensive thereby massively reducing the chance of
                        take-up. Similar things applied to DVDs, AIUI, too.

                        >Slightly worrying is that kids today don't appreciate what they're
                        >missing out on. This could be due to them walking around with their
                        >mini ghetto blasters in the form of a generic mobile with a youtube
                        >app.

                        Quite probably. Although I made my kids aware by plugging the o/p of
                        their MP3 players into the hifi. They were shocked at just how truly
                        awful the sound quality was.

                        - --
                        Regards _
                        / ) "The blindingly obvious is
                        / _)rad never immediately apparent"
                        Is she really going out with him?
                        New Rose - The Damned
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                      • Brad Rogers
                        ... Hash: SHA256 On Sun, 7 Oct 2012 13:45:36 +0100 ed wrote: Hello ed, ... As you say, possibly not. Even the vinyl version didn t last to a
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
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                          On Sun, 7 Oct 2012 13:45:36 +0100
                          ed <ed@...> wrote:

                          Hello ed,

                          >On Sun, Oct 07, 2012 at 11:59:27AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
                          >> with 3 sides. This was on one disc, BTW. Sides 2 and 3 occupied the
                          >> same side of the disc, but had two concentric grooves. As such, it
                          >> was hit and miss as to which 'side' you got.
                          >> Who was it by? Monty Python. Who else?
                          >Marvellous! I wonder if similar tom foolery is possible with a CD
                          >tracks, probably not...

                          As you say, possibly not. Even the vinyl version didn't last to a
                          second pressing. When that occurred, "side 3" became 'track 2, side
                          2'. Possibly there were a few complaints by people that didn't "get
                          it", but IDK that for sure.

                          - --
                          Regards _
                          / ) "The blindingly obvious is
                          / _)rad never immediately apparent"
                          Bet you thought you had it all worked out
                          Problem - Sex Pistols
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                        • thad_floryan
                          ... Hmmm, you re in the UK so I m surprised you didn t know about the Watts cleaning and anti-static products (one of which is used while a record is being
                          Message 12 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
                            --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, ed <ed@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On Sun, Oct 07, 2012 at 09:16:57AM +0100, Brad Rogers wrote:
                            > > Indeed. Especially the cover art. CDs make little impact in that
                            > > direction. Only the Pet Shop Boys - Very managed to do anything with CD
                            > > covers, AFAIAA, by making it a tactile experience. The size of CDs is
                            > > just too small for any image to have a real impact.
                            >
                            > There is some advantage with a CD that the artist/label can shovel a
                            > whole load of junk onto a CD data track that the end user gets to
                            > 'enjoy' and 'experience' some other marketing material.
                            >
                            > Digital music is a trade off, vinyl can wear out, a stylus isn't
                            > frictionless, the two record players I had were fitted with the best
                            > anti-static that I cold afford but dust would still build up and cause
                            > the occasional pop or crackle.

                            Hmmm, you're in the UK so I'm surprised you didn't know about the
                            Watts cleaning and anti-static products (one of which is used while
                            a record is being played), and also the Zerostat to destaticize a
                            record before being placed on a turntable.

                            Googling "Watts record cleaning materials" finds a LOT of hits, and
                            even one from the US Library of Congress who also uses the Watts kit
                            like I do:

                            <http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html>

                            Info about Cecil Watts [deceased] and his products:

                            <http://www.smartdevicesinc.com/Watts.pdf> 22 pages, 3.9MB

                            Google "Zerostat" for info about the anti-static "gun". I use one
                            for records and also for working on astronomy optics and on critical
                            electronics circuit components to prevent them being z-z-zapped.

                            > CDs do go mouldy, I've disposed of some more discs this year. I
                            > have no idea how the mould gets there.

                            Pressing defects and poor CD plant operation; the term is CD-ROT which
                            is the same as DVD-ROT and also as "laser rot" for laserdiscs. Here's
                            a list of rotted laserdiscs from 1997:

                            <http://thadlabs.com/LD_info/rotlist.txt>

                            SONY was the worst for poor QA and shoddy procedures, such as letting
                            cat pee get into the plating solution at their Terre Haute, Indiana
                            (USA) plant. That's one major reason I've been boycotting all SONY
                            products since 1993 (almost 20 years now).

                            I've had to replace 20 DVDs so far (even from Criterion) due to the
                            rot. All my CDs still appear to be OK.

                            > Ripping to FLAC may be the only sensible thing I can do these days.
                            > Vinly just sounds so much better than digital, perhaps its down to
                            > the electrical interference from a computer that things just sound
                            > rougher or limitations of the format, or something else, shame
                            > 128k/44hz is the norm.

                            Actually, no. The issue is due to the too-low sampling frequency
                            used for CDs. As you may remember, analog vinyl quadraphonic LPs
                            had a frequency response up to 45+ kHz. Normal music has many
                            harmonics way above 22 kHz and when you cut the upper frequency for
                            CDs you lose the 23kHz, 24kHz, etc. Remember that audio comprises
                            both the sums and differences as intermodulation and the difference
                            between 23kHz and 24kHz is only 1kHz which is audible but missing on
                            CDs due to the cutoff, and that's why a good LP pressing sounds so
                            much better than a CD. This is easily demonstratable using a good
                            spectrum analyzer.

                            > Slightly worrying is that kids today don't appreciate what they're
                            > missing out on. This could be due to them walking around with their
                            > mini ghetto blasters in the form of a generic mobile with a youtube
                            > app.

                            Disgusting, isn't it? The kiddies don't know what they're missing
                            and they will ruin their hearing by using earbuds which should be
                            outlawed.

                            Thad
                          • John O'Donnell
                            ... Oh dont get me started on LaserDiscs.. Have about 400 and some that will probably never make it to DVD much like my Reel to Reel collection for CDs.
                            Message 13 of 23 , Oct 7, 2012
                              On 10/07/2012 06:15 AM, thad_floryan wrote:
                              > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com <mailto:linux%40yahoogroups.com>, John O'Donnell
                              > <unixjohn1969@...> wrote:
                              > > [...]
                              > > Odd. I still buy records. Hugh Laurie did a wonderful Louisiana
                              > > style blues record "Let Them Talk" last year. Stephen Colbert with
                              > > The Black Belles has a 45rpm disc that has a groovy tune (Just
                              > > ordered his latest book "America Again:
                              > > Re-becoming the Greatness We Never Weren't"). But I digress. Go
                              > > look at towerrecords.com and search vinyl.
                              > >
                              > > Vinyl disappeared? ;-)
                              >
                              > I still have a bunch of LPs, 45s, and EPs, some very exotic, such as
                              > one EP (a 45 with 2 songs per side) of The Beatles singing in German.
                              > And a bunch of 12" LPs that play at 45RPM (not 33-1/3 RPM) of jazz. And
                              > a 40-LP set of "The History of Spanish Music" which spans over 1000
                              > years [mostly singing, many a cappella] which I got from the Musical
                              > Heritage Society [now defunct] along with their specific version of
                              > the Pachelbel "Canon in D" which won many world-wide awards.
                              >
                              > But one of the real losses was with laserdiscs because the albums were
                              > the same physical size as 12" LPs and there would be a lot of artwork
                              > and program notes especially with boxed sets. I have about 5000 LDs
                              > and about the same number (I really haven't counted) of DVDs. Here's
                              > a laserdisc album front and back cover for the Linda Ronstadt edition
                              > of the Gilbert & Sullivan "Pirates of Penzance" which is an exquisite
                              > performance with gorgeous color and sound:

                              Oh dont get me started on LaserDiscs.. Have about 400 and some that will
                              probably never make it to DVD much like my Reel to Reel collection for CDs.

                              http://juanisan.homeip.net/music-samples/

                              --
                              === Never ask a geek why, just nod your head and slowly back away.===
                              +================================+==================================+
                              | John O'Donnell | |
                              | (Sr. Systems Engineer, | http://juanisan.homeip.net |
                              | Net Admin, Programmer, etc.) | E-Mail: unixjohn1969@... |
                              +================================+==================================+
                              No man is useless who has a friend, and if we are loved we are
                              indispensable. -- Robert Louis Stevenson
                            • thad_floryan
                              ... Hi John, Cool! BTW, there s still a reasonably active Usenet group supporting laserdiscs, alt.video.laserdisc, going back decades. And there are a lot
                              Message 14 of 23 , Oct 8, 2012
                                --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, John O'Donnell <unixjohn1969@...> wrote:
                                > [...]
                                > Oh dont get me started on LaserDiscs.. Have about 400 and some tha
                                > will probably never make it to DVD much like my Reel to Reel
                                > collection for CDs.
                                >
                                > http://juanisan.homeip.net/music-samples/
                                > [...]

                                Hi John,

                                Cool! BTW, there's still a "reasonably" active Usenet group supporting
                                laserdiscs, alt.video.laserdisc, going back decades. And there are a
                                lot of LD sites on the web; I need to update mine, too. You should see
                                the 2-box set I have of the Gerry Anderson "U.F.O." TV series -- it puts
                                the 2-box DVD set (which I also have) to shame:

                                <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0063962/>

                                The one LD I'm still looking for (and missed one opportunity here in
                                Silicon Valley by 2 days) is "SONG OF THE SOUTH". The last time I
                                saw that movie was during the mid-1950s as a 2-parter on the Sunday
                                Walt Disney TV show. Release on VHS, Laserdisc or DVD in the USA
                                has been "censored" by Disney for decades though there were several
                                theatrical re-releases. I remember the movie for its wonderful music
                                and songs (e.g., "Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah" which won the Academy Award in
                                1947 for best song); more details here:

                                <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_South>
                                <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0038969/>

                                Getting back "almost" on-topic, laserdiscs were often integrated into
                                arcade game kiosks, and one of the most interesting computer apps with
                                a laserdisc was the US Geological Survey's "Earthquake Kiosks" that
                                appeared all around Silicon Valley in shopping malls, post offices,
                                etc. powered by embedded Amiga computers back in the 1980s and 1990s.
                                The laserdisc was used to serve maps and pictures onscreen along with
                                Amiga-generated text and control of the touchscreens; that app was
                                inspired by the Univ. of Illinois' PLATO system which required a big
                                mainframe and projected 35mm slides onscreen along with the computer
                                generated text. PLATO info:

                                <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_%28computer_system%29>
                                <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5k_QQV9sj4I> runtime 10 minutes

                                My best friend and I used to drop by Stanford many nights to play some
                                of the great games on the PLATO system. :-)

                                For those unaware, the Amiga systems were very UNIX-like which I why
                                I took to them like a fish to water; they were also quite similar to
                                the AT&T 3B1 (aka UNIXpc aka PC7300) made by Convergent Technologies
                                here in Silicon Valley. At one point I had 3 Amigas here (68000,
                                68010 and 68020) and three 3B1 systems and about 5 each of the
                                Convergent MiniFrames and MitiFrames which were code-compatible with
                                the AT&T SV UNIX on the 3B1s. I still have 3 fully functional 3B1
                                systems and several Convergent systems.

                                Thad
                              • thad_floryan
                                ... And the three Amiga systems. Thad
                                Message 15 of 23 , Oct 8, 2012
                                  --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                                  > [...]
                                  > I still have 3 fully functional 3B1
                                  > systems and several Convergent systems.

                                  And the three Amiga systems.

                                  Thad
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