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Re: [linux] IEEE Std. 1003.1, 2004, POSIX "Shell Command Language" searchable PDF

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  • Chris F.A. Johnson
    ... The man pages for standard commads are available at: Replace COMMAND with the name
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 4, 2012
      On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Thad Floryan wrote:

      > While searching for something else, I "found" the Open Group's
      > documentation page with the proverbial "ton" of free material
      > for everyone; all other material requires a membership which is
      > priced beginning at US$2,500/year and reaches US$50,000/year for
      > corporations based on their size; ouch!
      >
      > Their free material is here:
      >
      > <https://www2.opengroup.org/ogsys/jsp/publications/PublicationsFree.jsp>

      The man pages for standard commads are available at:

      <http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/COMMAND.html>

      Replace COMMAND with the name of the command, e.g.:

      <http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/cmp.html>


      --
      Chris F.A. Johnson, <http://cfajohnson.com/>
      Author:
      Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
      Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
    • Thad Floryan
      ... Hi Chris! Super; thank you for the update. I didn t spend that much time browsing the OpenGroup website due to other pressing matters. Another site I use
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 4, 2012
        On 9/4/2012 11:41 PM, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
        > On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Thad Floryan wrote:
        >
        >> While searching for something else, I "found" the Open Group's
        >> documentation page with the proverbial "ton" of free material
        >> for everyone; all other material requires a membership which is
        >> priced beginning at US$2,500/year and reaches US$50,000/year for
        >> corporations based on their size; ouch!
        >>
        >> Their free material is here:
        >>
        >> <https://www2.opengroup.org/ogsys/jsp/publications/PublicationsFree.jsp>
        >
        > The man pages for standard commads are available at:
        >
        > <http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/COMMAND.html>
        >
        > Replace COMMAND with the name of the command, e.g.:
        >
        > <http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/utilities/cmp.html>

        Hi Chris!

        Super; thank you for the update. I didn't spend that much time
        browsing the OpenGroup website due to other pressing matters.

        Another site I use a lot is <http://linux.die.net/> which I link to
        via a button on my browser's local web page for these items:

        Man Pages
        Sections 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, l, or n
        HOWTO Collection
        Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide
        Bash Guide for Beginners
        Bugzilla Guide
        Dive Into Python
        Enterprise Volume Management System Users Guide
        Introduction to Linux
        Linux Command-Line Tools Summary
        Linux Kernel Module Programming Guide
        Linux with Mobile Devices
        System Administrators' Guide

        Thad
      • Chris F.A. Johnson
        On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Thad Floryan wrote: ... I don t know whether I d trust that site after seeing dangerous recommendations like aliasing rm to rm -i on
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 4, 2012
          On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Thad Floryan wrote:
          ...
          > Another site I use a lot is <http://linux.die.net/>

          I don't know whether I'd trust that site after seeing dangerous
          recommendations like aliasing 'rm' to 'rm -i' on
          <http://linux.die.net/Linux-CLI/general-shell-tips.html>


          --
          Chris F.A. Johnson, <http://cfajohnson.com/>
          Author:
          Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
          Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
        • Chris F.A. Johnson
          ... And things like this don t improve my confidence: -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
            On Wed, 5 Sep 2012, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

            > On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Thad Floryan wrote:
            > ...
            >> Another site I use a lot is <http://linux.die.net/>
            >
            > I don't know whether I'd trust that site after seeing dangerous
            > recommendations like aliasing 'rm' to 'rm -i' on
            > <http://linux.die.net/Linux-CLI/general-shell-tips.html>

            And things like this don't improve my confidence:
            <http://b.cfaj.ca/linux-die.png>


            --
            Chris F.A. Johnson, <http://cfajohnson.com/>
            Author:
            Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
            Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
          • thad_floryan
            ... Please explain how that is dangerous . The -i simply commands rm to ASK if the file(s) should be deleted or not which is a lot safer than a raw rm
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <chris@...> wrote:
              >
              > On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Thad Floryan wrote:
              > ...
              > > Another site I use a lot is <http://linux.die.net/>
              >
              > I don't know whether I'd trust that site after seeing dangerous
              > recommendations like aliasing 'rm' to 'rm -i' on
              > <http://linux.die.net/Linux-CLI/general-shell-tips.html>

              Please explain how that is "dangerous".

              The "-i" simply commands rm to ASK if the file(s) should be deleted or
              not which is a lot safer than a "raw" rm which is NOT retractable,
              i.e., once it's deleted it's gone forever -- there's no "Trash Bin" or
              "Recycle Bin" from which a file can be undeleted after it's been rm'd.

              If you feel aliasing a standard command to the same command with some
              of its options is somehow evil, that's your opinion. Some of my bash
              aliases are:

              alias emacs="emacs -nw "
              alias j="jobs -l"
              alias la="ls -aF"
              alias lal="ls -al"
              alias ll="ls -l"
              alias ls="ls -F"
              alias pop="fg"

              which have served me well for decades on all Linux and UNIX systems.

              If you're really offended by the above "rm" example, try this:

              alias del="rm -i"
              or
              alias delete="rm -i"

              Also, please stop CC'ing me in your replies; replies belongs on and
              for the group and I deliberately use the Web interface so my email
              isn't cluttered with anything other than personal mail; thank you for
              your cooperation.

              Thad
            • thad_floryan
              ... That s a truncated PNG. Is there some point you re trying to make that I might not be seeing? I ve used s man pages for years
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <chris@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Wed, 5 Sep 2012, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
                >
                > > On Tue, 4 Sep 2012, Thad Floryan wrote:
                > > ...
                > >> Another site I use a lot is <http://linux.die.net/>
                > >
                > > I don't know whether I'd trust that site after seeing dangerous
                > > recommendations like aliasing 'rm' to 'rm -i' on
                > > </Linux-CLI/general-shell-tips.html>
                >
                > And things like this don't improve my confidence:
                > <http://b.cfaj.ca/linux-die.png>

                That's a truncated PNG. Is there some point you're trying to make
                that I might not be seeing?

                I've used <http://linux.die.net>'s man pages for years without any
                problems because it's available from whereever I am and from ANY kind
                of system, not just linux or even a desktop or laptop. That's what
                the Web is all about -- universal access.

                FWIW, die.net has been around since 1996 and is in Los Angeles CA,
                not some questionable site in what used to be Eastern Europe; the
                whois entry shows:

                Registrant [3684006]:
                Aaron Hopkins domain@...
                600 West 7th Street
                Suite 510
                Los Angeles
                CA
                90017

                Thad
              • thad_floryan
                ... An email correspondent asked what are the classifications shown by using -F to an ls. The man page for ls only says this: -F, --classify append
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                  --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                  > [...]
                  > Some of my bash aliases are:
                  >
                  > alias emacs="emacs -nw "
                  > alias j="jobs -l"
                  > alias la="ls -aF"
                  > alias lal="ls -al"
                  > alias ll="ls -l"
                  > alias ls="ls -F"
                  > alias pop="fg"
                  > [...]

                  An email correspondent asked what are the "classifications" shown by
                  using "-F" to an ls. The man page for "ls" only says this:

                  -F, --classify
                  append indicator (one of */=>@|) to entries

                  which is totally useless documentation.

                  Here an example noting my "ls" is aliased to "ls -F":

                  $ ls -l
                  total 4
                  -rw-r--r-- 1 thad thad 52 Sep 5 17:45 foo.c
                  $ cat foo.c
                  #include <stdio.h>
                  main(){printf("Hello world\n");}
                  $ make foo
                  gcc foo.c -o foo
                  $ ./foo
                  Hello world
                  $ ln -s foo bar
                  $ ./bar
                  Hello world
                  $ mkdir example
                  $ ls -l
                  total 16
                  lrwxrwxrwx 1 thad thad 3 Sep 5 17:48 bar -> foo*
                  drwxr-xr-x 2 thad thad 4096 Sep 5 17:48 example/
                  -rwxr-xr-x 1 thad thad 6415 Sep 5 17:48 foo*
                  -rw-r--r-- 1 thad thad 52 Sep 5 17:45 foo.c
                  $ ls
                  bar@ example/ foo* foo.c

                  Note also I do NOT use the idiotic ls "colors" which are really and
                  truly incomprehensible and UNreadable.

                  Since RMS (Stallman) is the co-author of "ls", we can look here:

                  <http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/General-output-formatting.html>

                  where we find:

                  '-F'
                  '--classify'
                  '--indicator-style=classify'

                  Append a character to each file name indicating the file
                  type. Also, for regular files that are executable, append
                  '*'. The file type indicators are '/' for directories, '@' for
                  symbolic links, '|' for FIFOs, '=' for sockets, '>' for doors,
                  and nothing for regular files. Do not follow symbolic links
                  listed on the command line unless the --dereference-command-line
                  (-H), --dereference (-L), or
                  --dereference-command-line-symlink-to-dir options are specified.

                  '--file-type'
                  '--indicator-style=file-type'

                  Append a character to each file name indicating the file
                  type. This is like -F, except that executables are not marked.

                  '--indicator-style=word'

                  Append a character indicator with style word to entry names, as
                  follows:

                  'none'
                  Do not append any character indicator; this is the default.
                  'slash'
                  Append '/' for directories. This is the same as the -p option.
                  'file-type'

                  Append '/' for directories, '@' for symbolic links, '|' for
                  FIFOs, '=' for sockets, and nothing for regular files. This
                  is the same as the --file-type option.

                  'classify'

                  Append '*' for executable regular files, otherwise behave as
                  for 'file-type'. This is the same as the -F or --classify
                  option.

                  Thad
                • Scott
                  ... Linux, or Gnu Linux actually, doesn t believe in man pages. :) The info is in errm, info. (As Thad mentions below). Note that the creator of ArchLinux,
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                    On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 12:58:34AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                    > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                    > > [...]

                    >
                    > An email correspondent asked what are the "classifications" shown by
                    > using "-F" to an ls. The man page for "ls" only says this:
                    >
                    > -F, --classify
                    > append indicator (one of */=>@|) to entries

                    Linux, or Gnu Linux actually, doesn't believe in man pages. :) The info is
                    in errm, info. (As Thad mentions below).

                    Note that the creator of ArchLinux, Judd Vinet, who is now no longer really
                    active in its development, as far as I know (but I don't keep track)
                    specifically mentioned info pages as cruft he didn't include in Arch.


                    Dru Lavigne, a well known FreeBSD advocate and author used to use that as
                    an example of where the Linux man pages were inferior to the BSD ones.
                    (Although in many cases, the Linux man pages are improving--I think way
                    back when, they hoped to have more accessible documentation with info, but
                    it seems as if it didn't pan out that well--although for all I know, the
                    ueber Linux gurus go to info first.

                    At any rate, if you do info ls, rather than man ls, you will get an
                    explation of the */=>@1.
                    > which is totally useless documentation.

                    I remember a friend, way back in the early 2000's, who first told me, if I
                    a Linux man page isn't helping, go to freebsd.org and use their man page.

                    I only happened to learn that it was actually in the info pages after
                    using ls as an example of how much better BSD documentation is than
                    Linux. (I'm not even sure that is still true, to be honest).
                    Someone pointed out that I'd ignored the info page.
                    While conceding that they were correct, I also mentioned that I felt use
                    one or the other, but not both, and that is often the trouble. Try
                    man--then info, then if there's nothing you sometimes find something in
                    /usr/share/doc and so on.
                    >
                    >
                    > Note also I do NOT use the idiotic ls "colors" which are really and
                    > truly incomprehensible and UNreadable.
                    >
                    I keep going back and forth on this. I prefer to have gray xterms, so many
                    of the chosen colors will often be unreadable.

                    But then, I'll sometimes find it useful--I also eventually edit colors to
                    change the more unreadable.

                    Back to you Thad.

                    <Speaking for Thad...> Thank you Scott, and as I was saying.....


                    > <http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/General-output-formatting.html>
                    >
                    > where we find:
                    >
                    > '-F'
                    > '--classify'
                    > '--indicator-style=classify'
                    > Append a character to each file name indicating the file
                    > type. Also, for regular files that are executable, append
                    > '*'. The file type indicators are '/' for directories, '@' for
                    > symbolic links, '|' for FIFOs, '=' for sockets, '>' for doors,
                    > and nothing for regular files. Do not follow symbolic links
                    > listed on the command line unless the --dereference-command-line
                    > (-H), --dereference (-L), or
                    > --dereference-command-line-symlink-to-dir options are specified.
                    >
                    > '--file-type'
                    > '--indicator-style=file-type'
                    >
                    > Append a character to each file name indicating the file
                    > type. This is like -F, except that executables are not marked.
                    >
                    > '--indicator-style=word'
                    >
                    > Append a character indicator with style word to entry names, as
                    > follows:
                    >
                    > 'none'
                    > Do not append any character indicator; this is the default.
                    > 'slash'
                    > Append '/' for directories. This is the same as the -p option.
                    > 'file-type'
                    >
                    > Append '/' for directories, '@' for symbolic links, '|' for
                    > FIFOs, '=' for sockets, and nothing for regular files. This
                    > is the same as the --file-type option.
                    >
                    > 'classify'
                    >
                    > Append '*' for executable regular files, otherwise behave as
                    > for 'file-type'. This is the same as the -F or --classify
                    > option.

                    --
                    Scott Robbins
                    PGP keyID EB3467D6
                    ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                    gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                    Dracula: Very impressive hunt. Such power.
                    Buffy: That was no hunt. That was just another day on the job.
                    Care to step up for some overtime?
                    Dracula: We're not going to fight.
                    Buffy: Do you know what a Slayer is?
                    Dracula: Do you?
                    Buffy: Who are you?
                    Dracula: I apologize. I assumed you knew. I am Dracula.
                    Buffy: Get out!
                  • Chris F.A. Johnson
                    ... As the man pages says, use info ls for the complete manual, where you will find the expanded description. -- Chris F.A. Johnson,
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                      On Thu, 6 Sep 2012, thad_floryan wrote:

                      > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                      ...
                      > An email correspondent asked what are the "classifications" shown by
                      > using "-F" to an ls. The man page for "ls" only says this:
                      >
                      > -F, --classify
                      > append indicator (one of */=>@|) to entries
                      >
                      > which is totally useless documentation.

                      As the man pages says, use 'info ls' for the complete manual, where you will
                      find the expanded description.

                      --
                      Chris F.A. Johnson, <http://cfajohnson.com/>
                      Author:
                      Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
                      Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
                    • Scott
                      ... Which Thad mentions later in the post. In some ways, this can easily turn into a bikeshed discussion,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                        On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 09:12:49PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
                        > On Thu, 6 Sep 2012, thad_floryan wrote:
                        >
                        > > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > -F, --classify
                        > > append indicator (one of */=>@|) to entries
                        > >
                        > > which is totally useless documentation.
                        >
                        > As the man pages says, use 'info ls' for the complete manual, where you will
                        > find the expanded description.

                        Which Thad mentions later in the post. In some ways, this can easily turn
                        into a bikeshed discussion,
                        <http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING>
                        of what is a good way to do things. In this case, you start with man,
                        then go to info. Perhaps RMS and friends start with info, I don't know.


                        --
                        Scott Robbins
                        PGP keyID EB3467D6
                        ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                        gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                        Cordelia: You're really campaigning for bitch of the year, aren't
                        you?
                        Buffy: As defending champion, you nervous?
                        Cordelia: I can hold my own.
                      • thad_floryan
                        ... I never particularly liked info , at least not the command and its interface. The actual information was typically very good because, as I wrote here
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > On Thu, Sep 06, 2012 at 12:58:34AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                          > > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@> wrote:
                          > > > [...]
                          > >
                          > > An email correspondent asked what are the "classifications" shown
                          > > by using "-F" to an ls. The man page for "ls" only says this:
                          > >
                          > > -F, --classify
                          > > append indicator (one of */=>@|) to entries
                          >
                          > Linux, or Gnu Linux actually, doesn't believe in man pages. :) The
                          > info is in errm, info. (As Thad mentions below).

                          I never particularly liked "info", at least not the command and its
                          interface. The actual information was typically very good because,
                          as I wrote here several times previously, it often takes much longer
                          to write a man page for a program than it does to design, code, test
                          and release a program -- if you examine the man page source (below)
                          you'll understand why [*.txt extension for reading with a browser]:

                          Example of the source of a man page and its PDF equivalent created
                          by "groff -man programname.man | ps2pdf > programname.pdf":

                          <http://thadlabs.com/FILES/tprobe.man.txt> 9kB
                          <http://thadlabs.com/FILES/tprobe.pdf> 13kB


                          > [...]
                          > I remember a friend, way back in the early 2000's, who first told
                          > me, if a Linux man page isn't helping, go to freebsd.org and use
                          > their man page.
                          > [...]

                          Solaris man pages are even better; here's the "-F" explanation for
                          both ls programs on Solaris 10; yes, Solaris has multiple versions of
                          many programs so one's $PATH and $MANPATH are important, and Solaris
                          (and many other UNIXs) actually do properly format their man pages:

                          /usr/bin/ls
                          -F Marks directories with a trailing slash (/),
                          doors with a trailing greater-than sign (>),
                          executable files with a trailing asterisk (*),
                          FIFOs with a trailing vertical bar (|), sym-
                          bolic links with a trailing "at" sign (@), and
                          AF_UNIX address family sockets with a trailing
                          equals sign (=). Follows symlinks named as
                          operands.


                          Specifying more than one of the options in the following
                          mutually exclusive pairs is not considered an error: -C and
                          -l (ell), -m and -l (ell), -x and -l (ell), -@ and -l (ell).
                          The -l (ell) option overrides the other option specified in
                          each pair.

                          Specifying more than one of the options in the following
                          mutually exclusive pairs is not considered an error: -C and
                          -1 (one), -H and -L, -c and -u, and -e and -E. The last
                          option specified in each of these pairs determines the out-
                          put format.

                          /usr/xpg4/bin/ls
                          -F Marks directories with a trailing slash (/),
                          doors with a trailing greater-than sign (>),
                          executable files with a trailing asterisk (*),
                          FIFOs with a trailing vertical bar (|), sym-
                          bolic links with a trailing "at" sign (@), and
                          AF_UNIX address family sockets with a trailing
                          equals sign (=). Follows symlinks named as
                          operands.


                          Specifying more than one of the options in the following
                          mutually exclusive pairs is not considered an error: -C and
                          -l (ell), -m and -l (ell), -x and -l (ell), -@ and -l (ell),
                          -C and -1 (one), -H and -L, -c and -u, and -e and -E. The
                          last option specified in each pair determines the output
                          format.

                          Thad
                        • thad_floryan
                          ... Very true. But one first has to do man info to know how to use the info program. ... Thad
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                            --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <chris@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On Thu, 6 Sep 2012, thad_floryan wrote:
                            >
                            > > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@> wrote:
                            > ...
                            > > An email correspondent asked what are the "classifications" shown
                            > > by using "-F" to an ls. The man page for "ls" only says this:
                            > >
                            > > -F, --classify
                            > > append indicator (one of */=>@|) to entries
                            > >
                            > > which is totally useless documentation.
                            >
                            > As the man pages says, use 'info ls' for the complete manual,
                            > where you will find the expanded description.

                            Very true.

                            But one first has to do "man info" to know how to use the info program.

                            :-)

                            Thad
                          • thad_floryan
                            ... I don t know either today. It s been 32 years since RMS and I sat down for a beer at the Oasis in Menlo Park CA flanking Stanford. That was back in the
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                              > [...]
                              > Which Thad mentions later in the post. In some ways, this can
                              > easily turn into a bikeshed discussion,
                              ><http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/misc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING>
                              > of what is a good way to do things. In this case, you start with
                              > man, then go to info. Perhaps RMS and friends start with info, I
                              > don't know.

                              I don't know either today. It's been 32 years since RMS and I sat
                              down for a beer at the Oasis in Menlo Park CA flanking Stanford. That
                              was back in the days when he was clean shaven and wore a suit and tie
                              when we met at John McCarthy's office at Stanford and he handed me an
                              Emacs tape and documentation:

                              <http://thadlabs.com/FILES/Emacs-150_1980.09.05.pdf>

                              exactly 32 years ago to the day. That was after I was already using
                              Emacs since 1975 which was a version I received from one of my clients
                              at the Pentagon (DARPA) who was using my database software.

                              Thad
                            • Al Thompson
                              ... You ll get a better description if you info info !! (grin) -- ... My bands, CD projects, music, news, and pictures: http://www.lateralforce.com My blog,
                              Message 14 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                                On 09/05/2012 10:23 PM, thad_floryan wrote:
                                > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <chris@...> wrote:
                                >> On Thu, 6 Sep 2012, thad_floryan wrote:
                                >>
                                >>> --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@> wrote:
                                >> ...
                                >>> An email correspondent asked what are the "classifications" shown
                                >>> by using "-F" to an ls. The man page for "ls" only says this:
                                >>>
                                >>> -F, --classify
                                >>> append indicator (one of */=>@|) to entries
                                >>>
                                >>> which is totally useless documentation.
                                >> As the man pages says, use 'info ls' for the complete manual,
                                >> where you will find the expanded description.
                                > Very true.
                                >
                                > But one first has to do "man info" to know how to use the info program.
                                >
                                > :-)
                                >
                                > Thad
                                >

                                You'll get a better description if you "info info"!! (grin)


                                --
                                ---
                                My bands, CD projects, music, news, and pictures:

                                http://www.lateralforce.com


                                My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio,
                                mixing, equipment, etc, is at:
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                                Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch;
                                und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.'
                                - [Friedrich Nietzsche]
                              • thad_floryan
                                ... Touché! It s been probably well over 30 years since I used the info program as a standalone or within Emacs inself. This page is sparse
                                Message 15 of 16 , Sep 5, 2012
                                  --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Al Thompson <althompson58@...> wrote:
                                  > On 09/05/2012 10:23 PM, thad_floryan wrote:
                                  > > [...]
                                  > > But one first has to do "man info" to know how to use the info
                                  > > program.
                                  > >
                                  > > :-)
                                  > >
                                  > > Thad
                                  >
                                  > You'll get a better description if you "info info"!! (grin)

                                  Touché!

                                  It's been probably well over 30 years since I used the info program
                                  as a standalone or within Emacs inself.

                                  This page is sparse <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Info_%28Unix%29>.

                                  This Emacs manual <http://thadlabs.com/FILES/Emacs-150_1980.09.05.pdf>
                                  has on its "Preface" page [7] (copy'n'pasted just now):

                                  " The manual is available in three forms: the published form, the
                                  " LPT form, and the INFO form. The published form is printed by the
                                  " Artificial Intelligence lab. The LPT form is available on line
                                  " for printing on unsophisticated hard copy devices such as
                                  " terminals and line printers. The INFO form is for on-line perusal
                                  " with the INFO program. All three forms are substantially the
                                  " same. There are also two versions of the text: one for use with
                                  " ITS, MIT's Incompatible Timesharing System, and one for use with
                                  " Twenex. Both versions are available in all three forms.

                                  The published form of the manual is what RMS handed me.

                                  FYI, "Twenex" is a pun on Tenex all of which run on the same type of
                                  DEC computers that were popular on the ARPANET and later in the
                                  commercial sector.

                                  <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOPS-20#TENEX>

                                  One of my clients, American Express, had 10 floors in their building
                                  in New York City full of these computers, and the Pentagon had a lot
                                  of them as did HP Labs but HP later thought it was a corporate
                                  embarrassment using DEC computers so they then developed PA-RISC.

                                  Here's the oldest ARPANET map I could find in my files, Sept. 1982:

                                  <http://thadlabs.com/FILES/ARPANET_Sept_1982.pdf>

                                  Thad
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