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Simplest way installing ATI Radeon Catalyst driver in CentOS 6

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  • thad_floryan
    It s pathetic that my latest/newest system, an HP dc5850 business-level desktop (this is NOT a consumer product) with an AMD dual core 4450B chip at 2.3GB
    Message 1 of 20 , Aug 20, 2012
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      It's pathetic that my latest/newest system, an HP dc5850 business-level
      desktop (this is NOT a consumer product) with an AMD dual core 4450B
      chip at 2.3GB along with 4GB RAM running ThadOS 6.3 (previously CentOS)
      was left behind in the dust by my 8-year-old Dell Latitude C610 laptop
      with a Pentium III @ 1 GHz and 1 GB RAM running Red Hat 9 (2003) in
      terms of video performance with both systems' displays at 1280x1024.
      But it's true.

      For the curious, the Dell C610 laptop's video card is:

      XF86Config under RedHat 9 on a Dell Latitude C610

      Section "Device"
      Identifier "Videocard0"
      Driver "radeon"
      VendorName "Videocard vendor"
      BoardName "ATI Radeon Mobility M6"
      VideoRam 16384
      EndSection
      Section "Screen"
      Identifier "Screen0"
      Device "Videocard0"
      Monitor "Monitor0"
      DefaultDepth 24
      SubSection "Display"
      Depth 24
      Modes "1280x1024" "1280x960" "1152x864" "1024x768"
      EndSubSectio
      EndSection

      The hp dc5850's onboard desktop video card is (per "lspci -m"):

      "Host bridge" "Advanced Micro Devices [AMD]" "RS780 Host Bridge" \
      "Hewlett-Packard Company" "Device 3029"
      "PCI bridge" "Advanced Micro Devices [AMD]" "RS780 PCI to PCI \
      bridge (PCIE port 2)" "" ""
      "VGA compatible controller" "Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee \
      ATI" "RS780C [Radeon HD 3100]" "Hewlett-Packard Company" \
      "Device 3029

      One program I use a lot since the 1980s is xfig producing a myriad of
      technical drawings and illustrations including circuit schematics,
      house plans, etc. xfig has performed flawlessly on the laptop since
      2003; xfig on my ThadOS box leaves dingleberries on the screen every
      time some drawing object is rotated which requires a screen refresh.
      Needless to say, that gets tiresome very quickly.

      My first thought was to "up" the graphics capability with an nVIDIA
      GeForce card. The HP chassis is low-profile so that limits what kind
      of graphics cards can be installed plus it doesn't have a humongous
      power supply like my other desktops. Newegg had a daily deal last
      week for a Gigabyte card with a nice rebate and the card's specs look
      good and would suit my needs:

      <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125407>

      Long story short, idiots at Gigabyte obviously NEVER tested the card
      in a low-profile case; note how the D-15/VGA plug sits high and mighty
      above the top of the graphics card prohibiting the HP chassis cover
      from ever being attached (these are Gigabyte's/Newegg's own photos):

      <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Gigabyte_GV-N520SL-1GI_1.jpg>
      <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Gigabyte_GV-N520SL-1GI_2.jpg>

      And before you ask, yes, I did transfer the D-15/VGA plug to the
      supplied "LP" bracket, but the part that attaches to the actual card
      still is about 1" too high. Companies like MSI don't make that error.

      So much for the nVIDIA solution.

      Googling found this page for installing a Radeon driver for CentOS 6:

      <http://xflinux.blogspot.com/2011/11/simplest-way-of-installing-ati-catalyst.html>

      whose instructions comprise these few commands (as root):

      1. First make sure your system is up-to-date. Run a upgrade

      yum upgrade

      2. You will have to enable a third party repository. Don't worry
      this is simple. Just execute the following command:

      rpm -Uvh http://elrepo.org/elrepo-release-6-4.el6.elrepo.noarch.rpm

      3. Now that the repository has been added, it is time to install the
      required packages (which takes a l-o-n-g time; don't ^C out):

      yum install kmod-fglrx fglrx-x11-drv

      4. With this, the driver installation is complete. Now all that
      remains is to tell X server to use the new driver:

      aticonfig --initial

      5. Thats it. Just reboot and enjoy your new driver.

      And, by golly, it works! No more dingleberries on the screen when
      using xfig. Google Earth and Xephem display faster now, too, and I
      didn't have to upgrade the hardware, so I'll put the Gigglebyte card
      in my Win7 system.
    • Scott
      ... The elrepo people are very good, actually, They have NVidia, some later kernels, drivers for various things not supported by the main RH/CentOS repos, and
      Message 2 of 20 , Aug 20, 2012
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        On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 02:10:32AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
        >
        > yum upgrade
        >
        > 2. You will have to enable a third party repository. Don't worry
        > this is simple. Just execute the following command:
        >
        > rpm -Uvh http://elrepo.org/elrepo-release-6-4.el6.elrepo.noarch.rpm
        >
        > 3. Now that the repository has been added, it is time to install the
        > required packages (which takes a l-o-n-g time; don't ^C out):
        >
        > yum install kmod-fglrx fglrx-x11-drv
        >
        > 4. With this, the driver installation is complete. Now all that
        > remains is to tell X server to use the new driver:
        >
        > aticonfig --initial
        >
        > 5. Thats it. Just reboot and enjoy your new driver.

        The elrepo people are very good, actually, They have NVidia, some later
        kernels, drivers for various things not supported by the main RH/CentOS
        repos, and so on. DISCLAIMER: I'm friendly with most of the El Repo folk,
        so anything I say has to be taken as the view of someone who likes some
        people. I forget who said it, but I think it's true--and I think it was a
        French philosopher, so this is probably a translation, but, If you like
        someone, and they spill their soup on you, you laugh. If you dislike
        someone, the way they hold their fork annoys you.


        --
        Scott Robbins
        PGP keyID EB3467D6
        ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
        gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

        Wicca girl: We come together, daughters of Gaia, sisters to the
        moon. We walk with the darkness, the wolf at our side. Through the
        waterfall of power, to the blackest heart of eternity. I think we
        should have a bake sale.
      • thad_floryan
        ... Ah, my review of the product with the comments about the D-15/VGA plug not permitting the cover to be closed are now at the Feedback section of that page
        Message 3 of 20 , Aug 20, 2012
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          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
          > [...]
          > My first thought was to "up" the graphics capability with an nVIDIA
          > GeForce card. The HP chassis is low-profile so that limits what kind
          > of graphics cards can be installed plus it doesn't have a humongous
          > power supply like my other desktops. Newegg had a daily deal last
          > week for a Gigabyte card with a nice rebate and the card's specs
          > look good and would suit my needs:
          >
          > <http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125407>

          Ah, my review of the product with the comments about the D-15/VGA
          plug not permitting the cover to be closed are now at the "Feedback"
          section of that page dated 8/19/2012 6:53:46 PM (Yesterday). :-)

          > Long story short, idiots at Gigabyte obviously NEVER tested the card
          > in a low-profile case; note how the D-15/VGA plug sits high and mighty
          > above the top of the graphics card prohibiting the HP chassis cover
          > from ever being attached (these are Gigabyte's/Newegg's own photos):
          >
          > <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Gigabyte_GV-N520SL-1GI_1.jpg>
          > <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Gigabyte_GV-N520SL-1GI_2.jpg>

          Compare how the D-15 cable is connected to the Gigabyte card vs. how
          it's connected on an MSI card (which is done correctly):

          <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/MSI_N210-MD1G_D3.jpg>

          > [...]
          > So much for the nVIDIA solution.
          >
          > Googling found this page for installing a Radeon driver for CentOS 6:
          >
          > <http://xflinux.blogspot.com/2011/11/simplest-way-of-installing-ati-catalyst.html>

          BTW, I found a CentOS page claiming it shows how to add new video
          drivers, but the system-config-display command has been removed from
          RHEL 6/CentOS 6 and it's suggested to use xrandr instead:

          <http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/ConfigureNewVideoCard>

          That CentOS page makes reference to the "upstream" (i.e., Red Hat)
          X Server Configuration, but be aware most of the docs are either
          wildly out of date or simply wrong or missing vital information
          which is why I'm dubious about the "Enterprise" appellation being
          applied to such OSs as I'll further clarify in another article.
        • thad_floryan
          ... Heh heh! Actually it s really great to find competent folks out there working on Linux issues. I m only finding good comments about El Repo. That
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 20, 2012
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            --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
            > [...]
            > The elrepo people are very good, actually, They have NVidia, some
            > later kernels, drivers for various things not supported by the main
            > RH/CentOS repos, and so on. DISCLAIMER: I'm friendly with most of
            > the El Repo folk, so anything I say has to be taken as the view of
            > someone who likes some people. I forget who said it, but I think
            > it's true -- and I think it was a French philosopher, so this is
            > probably a translation, but, If you like someone, and they spill
            > their soup on you, you laugh. If you dislike someone, the way they
            > hold their fork annoys you.

            Heh heh!

            Actually it's really great to find competent folks out there working on
            Linux issues. I'm only finding good comments about El Repo.

            That philosopher's quote is very interesting, and very true.

            I've just about finished a month-long home plumbing project and when
            that's done (this week) I'm going to post an apology to the group for
            my "language" a month ago along with the reasons why I exploded. The
            above philosopher's quote is applicable re: Novell and LibreOffice as
            you'll read later this week.
          • thad_floryan
            ... This may sound odd , but it s possible I might not have found the above page if I hadn t included Catalyst in the search term. And the only way I knew
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 20, 2012
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              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
              > [...]
              > Googling found this page for installing a Radeon driver for CentOS 6:
              >
              > <http://xflinux.blogspot.com/2011/11/simplest-way-of-installing-ati-catalyst.html>
              > [...]

              This may sound "odd", but it's possible I might not have found the above
              page if I hadn't included "Catalyst" in the search term. And the only
              way I knew I should include "Catalyst" was because that's what the
              WinXP on the same box (double booting from 2 disks) uses to control the
              graphics and the WinXP's graphics were speedy (vs. the default lame
              graphic drivers accompanying CentOS) using the same hardware.

              Learn something new every day. :-)

              I still don't understand why some distros are so reluctant to include
              the graphics hardware manufacturers' Linux drivers because they are a
              "binary blob".

              Who really cares if it's a binary blob or not if it's the best driver
              available?

              It's the same issue for everything else we buy and use. Yeah, I've
              built 100s of Heathkits over the years but now I buy already-built
              stuff at Frys, Newegg, etc.

              I downloaded the latest nVIDIA Linux driver earlier today thinking I
              might still be able to use it on my ThadOS system with the MSI card:

              ... 64075318 Aug 20 00:15 NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-304.37.run

              $ head NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-304.37.run
              #! /bin/sh
              skip=974
              CRCsum=3213994378
              MD5=d66875cfe230c1274d67511f177eb46a
              label="NVIDIA Accelerated Graphics Driver for Linux-x86_64 304.37"
              version_string=304.37
              pkg_version=0
              script=./nvidia-installer
              targetdir=NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-304.37

              and it's a shell script. Fine with me.
            • Godwin Stewart
              On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 03:35:19 -0000, thad_floryan ... A lot of the time that ll be because the manufacturers forbid it! -- Godwin Stewart
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 03:35:19 -0000, "thad_floryan" <thad@...>
                wrote:

                > I still don't understand why some distros are so reluctant to include
                > the graphics hardware manufacturers' Linux drivers because they are a
                > "binary blob".

                A lot of the time that'll be because the manufacturers forbid it!

                --
                Godwin Stewart <grs.ygroups@...>
              • Scott
                ... There are many articles out of date on the CentOS wiki. At least one is mine, but at least someone mentioned it is out of date--it s still better than the
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                  On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 02:58:35AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:


                  > <http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/ConfigureNewVideoCard>
                  >
                  > That CentOS page makes reference to the "upstream" (i.e., Red Hat)
                  > X Server Configuration, but be aware most of the docs are either
                  > wildly out of date or simply wrong or missing vital information
                  > which is why I'm dubious about the "Enterprise" appellation being
                  > applied to such OSs as I'll further clarify in another article.

                  There are many articles out of date on the CentOS wiki. At least one is
                  mine, but at least someone mentioned it is out of date--it's still better
                  than the RH docs, which tend to be pretty bad.

                  --
                  Scott Robbins
                  PGP keyID EB3467D6
                  ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                  gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                  Xander: Oh. Okay. You and Willow go do the superpower thing, I'll
                  stay behind and putt around the Batcave with crusty old Alfred
                  here.
                  Giles: Ah-ah, no. I am no Alfred, sir. No, you forget. Alfred had
                  a job.
                • Scott
                  ... Part of this is that NVidia (or anyone) could put anything they want in there and no one would know. Part of it is the philosophy of some groups. Part of
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                    On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 03:35:19AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:


                    >
                    > I still don't understand why some distros are so reluctant to include
                    > the graphics hardware manufacturers' Linux drivers because they are a
                    > "binary blob".
                    >
                    > Who really cares if it's a binary blob or not if it's the best driver
                    > available?
                    >
                    Part of this is that NVidia (or anyone) could put anything they want in
                    there and no one would know. Part of it is the philosophy of some groups.

                    Part of it is the wish to not be reliant upon them--what if Oracle bought
                    them next? Part of it may be plain legality, especially for RH. Without
                    knowing the legalities, let's say that including it would go against some
                    legal agreement--if it's some one or two person distro, run by students,
                    NVidia's lawyers, or at least accountants, would say, Not worth going after
                    them, they have no assets. However, if it's RH, then the proprietary
                    vendor would say, Wooee, money!!!

                    So, RH has to be more careful than some others.



                    --
                    Scott Robbins
                    PGP keyID EB3467D6
                    ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                    gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                    Buffy: Every time you show up like this, you risk all your parts,
                    you know that?
                    Spike: I wouldn't be here if I didn't have a good reason. As
                    usual, I'm here to help you and I... are you naked under there?
                    Buffy: Get out.
                    Spike: No, I'm serious. I mean, not about the naked part...
                  • thad_floryan
                    ... AFAIK, there are only two consumer-level GPU manufacturers: nVIDIA and AMD (formerly ATI (aka Radeon)). Both those manufacturers freely make their binary
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                      --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Godwin Stewart <grs.ygroups@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Tue, 21 Aug 2012 03:35:19 -0000, "thad_floryan" <thad@...>
                      > wrote:
                      >
                      > > I still don't understand why some distros are so reluctant to
                      > > include the graphics hardware manufacturers' Linux drivers because
                      > > they are a "binary blob".
                      >
                      > A lot of the time that'll be because the manufacturers forbid it!

                      AFAIK, there are only two consumer-level GPU manufacturers: nVIDIA and
                      AMD (formerly ATI (aka Radeon)). Both those manufacturers freely make
                      their "binary blob" drivers readily available. I downloaded both the
                      nVIDIA and AMD drivers recently from their respective websites. Who
                      best would know how to make their hardware cards function optimally than
                      the folks who built the cards? The software is free because both nVIDIA
                      and AMD realize their business is selling hardware not software, a fact
                      many now-defunct companies failed to realize over the past 30-40 years.

                      So, I'm curious: what other manufacturers are there who "forbid it"?
                    • thad_floryan
                      ... You re too kind, Scott. From my perspective we have Redhat: liars, lies, and more lies. Want a good example? Look at Redhat s propaganda brochure:
                      Message 10 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                        --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                        > On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 02:58:35AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                        > > [...]
                        > > <http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/ConfigureNewVideoCard>
                        > >
                        > > That CentOS page makes reference to the "upstream" (i.e., Red Hat)
                        > > X Server Configuration, but be aware most of the docs are either
                        > > wildly out of date or simply wrong or missing vital information
                        > > which is why I'm dubious about the "Enterprise" appellation being
                        > > applied to such OSs as I'll further clarify in another article.
                        >
                        > There are many articles out of date on the CentOS wiki. At least
                        > one is mine, but at least someone mentioned it is out of date--it's
                        > still better than the RH docs, which tend to be pretty bad.

                        You're too kind, Scott.

                        From my perspective we have Redhat: liars, lies, and more lies.

                        Want a good example? Look at Redhat's propaganda brochure:

                        <http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/RHEL-Standardization-e-book_version2.pdf>

                        Skip to page 12 and look at the first three sentences:

                        " End users expect applications to be available. They count on the
                        " fact that your IT staff will keep applications running and
                        " accessible so they can do their jobs. In fact, organizations that
                        " standardize on Red Hat Enterprise Linux experience 80% less
                        " downtime than those that rely on non-paid community Linux.

                        Note the "End users expect applications to be available".

                        So why did those idiotic morons remove, without my permission, the
                        Open Office suite from RHEL 6/CentOS 6? Open Office is an application
                        I use more than 50 times a day.

                        Note that none of the 6.3 release notes from Red Hat or CentOS mention
                        that Open Office will be removed and replaced with Novell's forked
                        LibreOffice. OpenOffice was transferred to The Apache Foundation on
                        June 1, 2011, so any further hatred towards Oracle is unwarranted.

                        What Red Hat and CentOS did with removing Open Office was as bad as
                        Amazon removing books from one's Kindle for some alleged copyright
                        issues.

                        I can no longer trust Red Hat or CentOS for anything ever again. EVER.
                      • Scott
                        ... I don t want to get you started on that one again--it s like asking me about politicians. However, I would say that in many cases, especially in what I
                        Message 11 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                          On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 01:03:49AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:


                          > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                          > > On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 02:58:35AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                          > > > [...]
                          > > > <http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/ConfigureNewVideoCard>
                          > > >
                          > Skip to page 12 and look at the first three sentences:
                          >
                          > " End users expect applications to be available. They count on the
                          > " fact that your IT staff will keep applications running and
                          > " accessible so they can do their jobs. In fact, organizations that
                          > " standardize on Red Hat Enterprise Linux experience 80% less
                          > " downtime than those that rely on non-paid community Linux.
                          >
                          > Note the "End users expect applications to be available".
                          >



                          > So why did those idiotic morons remove, without my permission, the
                          > Open Office suite from RHEL 6/CentOS 6? Open Office is an application
                          > I use more than 50 times a day.

                          I don't want to get you started on that one again--it's like asking me
                          about politicians. However, I would say that in many cases, especially in
                          what I suspect is RH's target, the majority of users wouldn't notice--the
                          big market for RH is servers. While there are workstations, and I don't
                          pretend to be privy to their sales numbers, I can't say I've heard of an
                          office with a bunch of RH or RH clone workstations.

                          Remember RedHat hired Jeff once, so they have to be suspect. :)

                          >
                          > Note that none of the 6.3 release notes from Red Hat or CentOS mention
                          > that Open Office will be removed and replaced with Novell's forked
                          > LibreOffice. OpenOffice was transferred to The Apache Foundation on
                          > June 1, 2011, so any further hatred towards Oracle is unwarranted.

                          CentOS will probably get it in their FAQ if more than one person notices
                          it. RH---sigh, I remember when they moved all the DNS config files--a bug
                          was filed, mentioning that it wasn't in the docs, and the answer was, well,
                          no need now, you've mentioned it here. In contrast, CentOS got it in the
                          FAQ quickly.

                          >
                          > What Red Hat and CentOS did with removing Open Office was as bad as
                          > Amazon removing books from one's Kindle for some alleged copyright
                          > issues.


                          >
                          > I can no longer trust Red Hat or CentOS for anything ever again. EVER.

                          I don't have intelligent answers for you. I suspect the average OO (or
                          Libre Office) user is more like me than you--that is, probably uses basic
                          spread sheet and document stuff, so wouldn't notice the finer points.
                          For me, for example, it's quite possible that I wouldn't have even noticed.


                          --
                          Scott Robbins
                          PGP keyID EB3467D6
                          ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                          gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                          Buffy: I lost a friend tonight and I may lose more! The whole
                          world may be sucked into hell, and you want my help 'cause your
                          girlfriend's a big ho?! Let me take this opportunity to NOT care!
                        • thad_floryan
                          ... If you look at the graphics card and GPU markets, the vast majority of such devices are used on Windows systems. What with all the anti- virus companies
                          Message 12 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                            --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 03:35:19AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                            > > [...]
                            > > I still don't understand why some distros are so reluctant to
                            > > include the graphics hardware manufacturers' Linux drivers
                            > > because they are a "binary blob".
                            > >
                            > > Who really cares if it's a binary blob or not if it's the best
                            > > driver available?
                            >
                            > Part of this is that NVidia (or anyone) could put anything they
                            > want in there and no one would know.

                            If you look at the graphics card and GPU markets, the vast majority
                            of such devices are used on Windows systems. What with all the anti-
                            virus companies and scores of consumer watchdog operations checking
                            the "binary blobs" all the time and finding nothing, why would one
                            have any cause to worry? The companies that make the GPUs and cards
                            make hardware and they provide their software for free because it's
                            the best way to get full capability from the GPUs and cards.

                            I fully recognize the GPU makers' rights to their proprietary software
                            because it contains trade secrets crucial to their very existence in a
                            competitive market especially given the real possibility of illegal
                            hardware clones from Asia if trade secrets were open-sourced. The
                            GPU makers (nVIDIA and AMD (and Intel?)) are still a USA industry.


                            > Part of it is the philosophy of some groups.

                            Irrelevant.

                            > Part of it is the wish to not be reliant upon them--what if Oracle
                            > bought them next?

                            Inconsequential. The "binary blob" software drivers are already out
                            there and available free.

                            > Part of it may be plain legality, especially for RH. Without
                            > knowing the legalities, let's say that including it would go
                            > against some legal agreement--if it's some one or two person
                            > distro, run by students, NVidia's lawyers, or at least accountants,
                            > would say, Not worth going after them, they have no assets.
                            > However, if it's RH, then the proprietary vendor would say, Wooee,
                            > money!!!

                            Non sequitur. The "binary blob" video drivers are already available
                            free for download from the very manufacturers you seem to think would
                            view Red Hat with hungry eyes. That's NEVER going to happen and it's
                            just another sign of Red Hat incompetence.

                            > So, RH has to be more careful than some others.

                            I disagree. Do you think the GPU drivers aren't available for Oracle
                            Linux (which is yet another spin-off of RHEL like CentOS and SL).

                            Folks need the PROPER VIDEO DRIVERS for their systems as I described
                            yesterday regarding the dingleberries scattered around the screen due
                            to the crap stock RHEL/CentOS video driver. I began this thread to
                            show how easy it was to install AMD's video driver on my ThadOS box.
                          • thad_floryan
                            ... OK. :-) ... Well, they tout the RHEL Desktop on their website: and when I downloaded the ISOs
                            Message 13 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                              > [...]
                              > I don't want to get you started on that one again--it's like asking
                              > me about politicians.

                              OK. :-)

                              > However, I would say that in many cases, especially in what I
                              > suspect is RH's target, the majority of users wouldn't notice--the
                              > big market for RH is servers. While there are workstations, and I
                              > don't pretend to be privy to their sales numbers, I can't say I've
                              > heard of an office with a bunch of RH or RH clone workstations.
                              > [...]

                              Well, they tout the RHEL Desktop on their website:

                              <http://www.redhat.com/products/enterprise-linux/desktop/>

                              and when I downloaded the ISOs for CentOS back on 12-MARCH-2012 from
                              here (don't look at the URLs, but Fecebook has one of the fastest
                              links in Silicon Valley and I dl'd the ISOs at 2.5MB/S):

                              <http://centos.mirror.facebook.net/6.2/isos/x86_64/CentOS-6.2-x86_64-bin-DVD1.iso>

                              <http://centos.mirror.facebook.net/6.2/isos/x86_64/CentOS-6.2-x86_64-bin-DVD2.iso>

                              I should have suspected something "wasn't right" seeing Fecebook is
                              involved. Why didn't CentOS use Stanford which is closer to me and
                              with even faster connections to the 'Net? I'm just musing and don't
                              expect an answer here. :-)

                              I didn't see any choice of "server" or "desktop" when browsing for the
                              ISOs, and I don't recall (it's been 5+ months now) being asked to
                              choose "[ ] Desktop or [ ] Server" during the initial install; I seem
                              to remember selecting "Everything" since that's what I usually do when
                              installing OSs. No distro would fill a 500+GB HD with its install so
                              why worry?
                            • Scott
                              ... There is one desktop option. There are a variety of server options, such as web server, mysql server, and so one. Many of them don t include a GUI. It
                              Message 14 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                                On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 01:54:24AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:


                                >
                                > I didn't see any choice of "server" or "desktop" when browsing for the
                                > ISOs, and I don't recall (it's been 5+ months now) being asked to
                                > choose "[ ] Desktop or [ ] Server" during the initial install; I seem
                                > to remember selecting "Everything" since that's what I usually do when
                                > installing OSs. No distro would fill a 500+GB HD with its install so
                                > why worry?

                                There is one desktop option. There are a variety of server options, such
                                as web server, mysql server, and so one. Many of them don't include a GUI.
                                It seems to me, though I could easily be wrong, that the 6.x release was
                                one of the first where their various server package groups didn't include
                                GUI by default--this was the first time where minimal was the default,
                                which should have, IMHO, always been the case since they branched off into
                                being aimed at the server market.

                                --
                                Scott Robbins
                                PGP keyID EB3467D6
                                ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                                gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                                Xander: Well, I guess that makes it official. Everybody's paired
                                off. Vampires get dates. Hell, even the school librarian sees
                                more action than me.
                              • thad_floryan
                                ... Hmmm, it s been awhile but now I sort-of recall seeing those options during the install and it puzzled me because a web server or mysql server can be added
                                Message 15 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                                  --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 01:54:24AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > I didn't see any choice of "server" or "desktop" when browsing
                                  > > for the ISOs, and I don't recall (it's been 5+ months now) being
                                  > > asked to choose "[ ] Desktop or [ ] Server" during the initial
                                  > > install; I seem to remember selecting "Everything" since that's
                                  > > what I usually do when installing OSs. No distro would fill a
                                  > > 500+GB HD with its install so why worry?
                                  >
                                  > There is one desktop option. There are a variety of server
                                  > options, such as web server, mysql server, and so one. Many of
                                  > them don't include a GUI.

                                  Hmmm, it's been awhile but now I sort-of recall seeing those options
                                  during the install and it puzzled me because a web server or mysql
                                  server can be added at any time after a "base" install. In fact, I
                                  have them running on my "workstation". Even my 1 GHz Pentium III
                                  Red Hat 9 laptop from 2003 is running Apache. Back then I was doing
                                  numerous installs of RH9 on VA-Linux hardware for one employer; you
                                  might remember this (stripped-down) "schematic" of how I setup the
                                  colo website (the systems shown are 50% of the original layout --
                                  company was starting to go belly-up when I later downsized the colo
                                  after the 10th CEO came onboard):

                                  <http://thadlabs.com/FILES/Thad_San_Jose_colo_2006.07.10.pdf>

                                  The systems on that diagram labelled "VA" and "Linux" were running
                                  RH9 that I installed; I also installed the Solaris and AIX boxes both
                                  at the colo (in San Jose CA) and at the HQ in San Mateo CA.

                                  That company was this one (pix of me):

                                  <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/SigThad_1.jpg> 2000 during launch party
                                  <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/SigThad_2.jpg> 2000 at CES in Las Vegas
                                  <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/SigThad_3.jpg> 2000 at CES in Las Vegas

                                  > It seems to me, though I could easily be wrong, that the 6.x
                                  > release was one of the first where their various server package
                                  > groups didn't include GUI by default--this was the first time where
                                  > minimal was the default, which should have, IMHO, always been the
                                  > case since they branched off into being aimed at the server market.

                                  I sort of agree with that (headless servers), but try, just try, to
                                  admin an AIX (IBM UNIX) box without the GUI. AIX is so obtuse the
                                  GUI is mandatory because it, smit, reveals the command-level lines
                                  that are generated for the GUI commands in its lower panel; about the
                                  only AIX commands that one would recognize are ls, exit and cd. :-)

                                  I was used to both SunOS and Solaris since I've used those since I
                                  held the very first Sun box in my hands at this meeting:

                                  <http://thadlabs.com/FILES/HPCQ_SUN.pdf>

                                  and I still have some 15+ Sun systems in my home office; one is in the
                                  system 2nd-to-the-left-from-the-foreground-printer (which triple
                                  boots) in this photo, 4 Suns are in the background, and the rest in
                                  another room:

                                  <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Thad_desk.jpg>

                                  HP-UX is HP's UNIX; its commands are almost as obtuse as AIX's but
                                  it was the only UNIX that was "user neutral" after installation. By
                                  that I mean no services were running until explicitly enabled, vs.
                                  the "user hostile" AT&T SVR5 which was a really nasty system and it
                                  was fortunate that AT&T's hostility wasn't migrated to Sun's Solaris
                                  when the two UNIXs were merged. Still, a lot of my colleagues wished
                                  that Bill and Dave (who founded HP) would have reversed the order of
                                  their initials from "HP" to "PH" for the apropos name for HP-UX. :-)
                                • Chris F.A. Johnson
                                  ... It s trivial to install it. What s the problem?? -- Chris F.A. Johnson, Author: Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Aug 21, 2012
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                                    On Wed, 22 Aug 2012, thad_floryan wrote:

                                    > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                                    >> On Tue, Aug 21, 2012 at 02:58:35AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                                    >>> [...]
                                    >>> <http://wiki.centos.org/HowTos/ConfigureNewVideoCard>
                                    >>>
                                    >>> That CentOS page makes reference to the "upstream" (i.e., Red Hat)
                                    >>> X Server Configuration, but be aware most of the docs are either
                                    >>> wildly out of date or simply wrong or missing vital information
                                    >>> which is why I'm dubious about the "Enterprise" appellation being
                                    >>> applied to such OSs as I'll further clarify in another article.
                                    >>
                                    >> There are many articles out of date on the CentOS wiki. At least
                                    >> one is mine, but at least someone mentioned it is out of date--it's
                                    >> still better than the RH docs, which tend to be pretty bad.
                                    >
                                    > You're too kind, Scott.
                                    >
                                    >> From my perspective we have Redhat: liars, lies, and more lies.
                                    >
                                    > Want a good example? Look at Redhat's propaganda brochure:
                                    >
                                    > <http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/RHEL-Standardization-e-book_version2.pdf>
                                    >
                                    > Skip to page 12 and look at the first three sentences:
                                    >
                                    > " End users expect applications to be available. They count on the
                                    > " fact that your IT staff will keep applications running and
                                    > " accessible so they can do their jobs. In fact, organizations that
                                    > " standardize on Red Hat Enterprise Linux experience 80% less
                                    > " downtime than those that rely on non-paid community Linux.
                                    >
                                    > Note the "End users expect applications to be available".
                                    >
                                    > So why did those idiotic morons remove, without my permission, the
                                    > Open Office suite from RHEL 6/CentOS 6? Open Office is an application
                                    > I use more than 50 times a day.

                                    It's trivial to install it. What's the problem??

                                    --
                                    Chris F.A. Johnson, <http://cfajohnson.com/>
                                    Author:
                                    Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
                                    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
                                  • Godwin Stewart
                                    On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:49:28 -0000, thad_floryan ... GPUs are not the only consumer devices that require drivers. Think: network cards,
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Aug 22, 2012
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                                      On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:49:28 -0000, "thad_floryan" <thad@...>
                                      wrote:

                                      > So, I'm curious: what other manufacturers are there who "forbid it"?

                                      GPUs are not the only consumer devices that require drivers. Think: network
                                      cards, sound cards, winmodems, printers, scanners etc.

                                      Also, just because a company allows the free download of something off
                                      *THEIR* website doesn't mean that they allow others to download and
                                      distribute it from a third party site.

                                      I know I haven't answered your question specifically, but I do have
                                      memories of trying to locate Linux drivers for something (I forget what now
                                      because it is going back a few years) and failing because the manufacturer
                                      did not allow third parties to distribute drivers, had discontinued the
                                      device in question and had therefore also pulled the drivers from their own
                                      site. All the links on google were 404-compliant.

                                      This said, it's true that those dark ages are slowly passing and, as you
                                      pointed out, manufacturers are beginning to realize that allowing free
                                      circulation of their drivers is only going to boost popularity of their
                                      hardware.

                                      --
                                      Godwin Stewart -- <grs.ygroups@...>
                                    • thad_floryan
                                      ... Besides the new bug that the Applications - Office no longer exists after removing LibreOffice after which I did install OpenOffice with a taskbar
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Aug 22, 2012
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                                        --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "Chris F.A. Johnson" <chris@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > On Wed, 22 Aug 2012, thad_floryan wrote:
                                        > > [...]
                                        > > So why did those idiotic morons remove, without my permission, the
                                        > > Open Office suite from RHEL 6/CentOS 6? Open Office is an
                                        > > application I use more than 50 times a day.
                                        >
                                        > It's trivial to install it. What's the problem??

                                        Besides the new bug that the "Applications -> Office" no longer exists
                                        after removing LibreOffice after which I did install OpenOffice with a
                                        taskbar launcher, the latest CentOS "update" did something such that
                                        the launcher no longer launches OpenOffice. The OpenOffice files in
                                        /opt are (apparently) all still there

                                        procyon bash 3050/3058> date
                                        Wed Aug 22 21:08:06 PDT 2012
                                        procyon bash 3050/3058> pwd
                                        /opt
                                        procyon bash 3050/3058> ll
                                        total 12
                                        drwxr-xr-x. 3 root root 4096 Mar 15 01:19 google/
                                        drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Aug 2 17:02 openoffice.org/
                                        drwxr-xr-x 5 root root 4096 Apr 19 03:06 openoffice.org3/
                                        procyon bash 3050/3058> du -sk *
                                        106084 google
                                        326680 openoffice.org
                                        26932 openoffice.org3

                                        so the cause of this new problem since yesterday is not yet clear
                                        since I haven't had time to track it down.

                                        So I'm back to using OpenOffice on one of my Windows systems instead
                                        because it works fine there (actually better than on CentOS especially
                                        concerning fonts since I have so many) and Microsoft doesn't remove
                                        software from my systems behind my back.

                                        It's reaching the point I see no benefits to me running CentOS any
                                        longer so it's very likely I'll replace it with FreeBSD -- at least
                                        that's a real enterprise-level OS and the developers aren't douches.

                                        My website and email server has been running FreeBSD 100% reliably in
                                        stretches of 6-7 years at a time since 1995 with the only downtime
                                        being for system updates, both hardware and software.

                                        Arrgh -- 5 months' time wasted with CentOS. :-(
                                      • thad_floryan
                                        ... I m puzzled about the inclusion of network cards. I ve NEVER had a network card not work after installation of a Linux distro and the only one that was
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Aug 22, 2012
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                                          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Godwin Stewart <grs.ygroups@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > On Wed, 22 Aug 2012 00:49:28 -0000, "thad_floryan" <thad@...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          > > [...]
                                          > > So, I'm curious: what other manufacturers are there who "forbid
                                          > > it"?
                                          >
                                          > GPUs are not the only consumer devices that require drivers. Think:
                                          > network cards, sound cards, winmodems, printers, scanners etc.

                                          I'm puzzled about the inclusion of network cards. I've NEVER had a
                                          network card not work after installation of a Linux distro and the
                                          only one that was troublesome was with Sun's Solaris with a Compaq
                                          system I bought at an Office Depot store new for US$217. Note I had
                                          a CD with me at the store containing Sun's hardware compatibility
                                          tester and it OK'd everything and it presented me with the URL of the
                                          nfo network card driver which was trivial to download, compile and
                                          install per:

                                          <http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/>

                                          specifically for the onboard Realtek RTL8201N. When I recently up'd
                                          my LAN to GiGE the Intel driver was already available within Solaris
                                          for the new Intel card from Newegg so that was a no-brainer.

                                          Thus, Solaris is truly an enterprise-level OS.

                                          In agree sound cards can be a problem and I can't believe anyone would
                                          want to use a WinModem with linux given it's a software modem with
                                          minimal hardware! :-) My printers are are networked HP LaserJets so
                                          that's not a problem and I've resigned myself to using my HP
                                          ScanJet 5590 (with document feeder, etc.) only with my Windows boxes
                                          since that software is, surprisingly for HP, excellent.

                                          > Also, just because a company allows the free download of something
                                          > off *THEIR* website doesn't mean that they allow others to download
                                          > and distribute it from a third party site.

                                          But if a distro simply provided a URL to where that free something can
                                          be downloaded, I don't see any issue since Google would find it too.
                                          What I posted yesterday showed how to use the El Repo repository for
                                          a better (but still glitchy) video driver for CentOS; the WinXP which
                                          boots on the same hardware system has a "perfect" Catalyst driver.

                                          > I know I haven't answered your question specifically, but I do have
                                          > memories of trying to locate Linux drivers for something (I forget
                                          > what now because it is going back a few years) and failing because
                                          > the manufacturer did not allow third parties to distribute drivers,
                                          > had discontinued the device in question and had therefore also
                                          > pulled the drivers from their own site. All the links on google
                                          > were 404-compliant.

                                          Yikes! Now THAT is definitely nasty. I wouldn't buy anything from
                                          such a vendor ever again. A number of vendors whose products I buy
                                          do keep legacy material online. I host several repositories of "old"
                                          firmware releases for a number of astronomical devices in case folks
                                          want to revert because they don't like new interfaces or whatever.

                                          > This said, it's true that those dark ages are slowly passing and,
                                          > as you pointed out, manufacturers are beginning to realize that
                                          > allowing free circulation of their drivers is only going to boost
                                          > popularity of their hardware.

                                          Precisely! :-)
                                        • thad_floryan
                                          ... As you can see in these two screencaptures I just found (misfiled on another system):
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Aug 23, 2012
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                                            --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                                            > [...]
                                            > Besides the new bug that the "Applications -> Office" no longer
                                            > exists after removing LibreOffice after which I did install
                                            > OpenOffice with a taskbar launcher,

                                            As you can see in these two screencaptures I just found (misfiled on
                                            another system):

                                            <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/ThadOS_6.3_alacarte_gnome.jpg>

                                            <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/ThadOS_6.3_apache_openoffice.jpg>

                                            > the latest CentOS "update" [* YESTERDAY *] did something such that
                                            > the launcher no longer launches OpenOffice. The OpenOffice files in
                                            > /opt are (apparently) all still there
                                            > [...]
                                            >
                                            > Arrgh -- 5 months' time wasted with CentOS. :-(

                                            Yep, that's it, no more garbage OSs on my computers. CentOS will be
                                            history tomorrow.
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