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Fedora 15 released today, 24-MAY-2011

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  • thad_floryan
    In today s DistroWatch : Fedora Fedora 15, a new version of one of the leading and most widely used Linux distributions on the
    Message 1 of 24 , May 24 4:11 PM
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      In today's DistroWatch <http://distrowatch.com/6690>:

      Fedora Fedora 15, a new version of one of the leading and most widely
      used Linux distributions on the market, has been released. Some of the
      many new features include support for Btrfs file system, Indic typing
      booster, redesigned SELinux troubleshooter, better power management,
      LibreOffice productivity suite, and, of course, the brand-new GNOME 3
      desktop: "GNOME 3 is the next generation of GNOME with a brand new
      user interface. It provides a completely new and modern desktop that
      has been designed for today's users and technologies. Fedora 15 is the
      first major distribution to include GNOME 3 by default. GNOME 3 is
      being developed with extensive upstream participation from Red Hat
      developers and Fedora volunteers, and GNOME 3 is tightly integrated
      in Fedora 15."

      Release announcement:
      <http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_15_announcement>

      Release notes:
      <http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/15/html/Release_Notes/>
    • roro
      ... file gnome 3 under no way in HELL . @-}--alanna
      Message 2 of 24 , May 25 9:08 AM
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        On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 17:11, thad_floryan <thad@...> wrote:

        > In today's DistroWatch <http://distrowatch.com/6690>:
        >
        > Fedora Fedora 15, a new version of one of the leading and most widely
        > used Linux distributions on the market, has been released. Some of the
        > many new features include support for Btrfs file system, Indic typing
        > booster, redesigned SELinux troubleshooter, better power management,
        > LibreOffice productivity suite, and, of course, the brand-new GNOME 3
        > desktop: "GNOME 3 is the next generation of GNOME with a brand new
        > user interface. It provides a completely new and modern desktop that
        > has been designed for today's users and technologies. Fedora 15 is the
        > first major distribution to include GNOME 3 by default. GNOME 3 is
        > being developed with extensive upstream participation from Red Hat
        > developers and Fedora volunteers, and GNOME 3 is tightly integrated
        > in Fedora 15."


        file gnome 3 under "no way in HELL".

        @-}--alanna
      • thad_floryan
        ... As the person who came up with Fecebook referring to the spy site used by the FBI, CIA, DIA, NRO, NIS, SD-6, et al, your opinions are highly respected. I
        Message 3 of 24 , May 25 1:15 PM
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          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, roro <roro@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 17:11, thad_floryan <thad@...> wrote:
          >
          > > In today's DistroWatch <http://distrowatch.com/6690>:
          > >
          > > Fedora Fedora 15, a new version of one of the leading and most widely
          > > used Linux distributions on the market, has been released. Some of the
          > > many new features include support for Btrfs file system, Indic typing
          > > booster, redesigned SELinux troubleshooter, better power management,
          > > LibreOffice productivity suite, and, of course, the brand-new GNOME 3
          > > desktop: "GNOME 3 is the next generation of GNOME with a brand new
          > > user interface. It provides a completely new and modern desktop that
          > > has been designed for today's users and technologies. Fedora 15 is the
          > > first major distribution to include GNOME 3 by default. GNOME 3 is
          > > being developed with extensive upstream participation from Red Hat
          > > developers and Fedora volunteers, and GNOME 3 is tightly integrated
          > > in Fedora 15."
          >
          > file gnome 3 under "no way in HELL".
          >
          > @-}--alanna

          As the person who came up with "Fecebook" referring to the spy site
          used by the FBI, CIA, DIA, NRO, NIS, SD-6, et al, your opinions are
          highly respected.

          I just now visited <http://gnome3.org/>. You are again correct, it is
          only for the 20-somethings with cellphones jammed into their heads and
          texting 24/7/365 as they stumble into oblivion.

          Unity on Ubuntu, Gnome 3 on Fedora; is this the fate of linux?
        • Chris Becker
          ... ... It s certainly looking that way. A little bit of funny from the ... Dear GNOME 3, So, you’re born, and we here at openSUSE Project are very
          Message 4 of 24 , May 25 1:32 PM
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            On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 3:15 PM, thad_floryan <thad@...> wrote:
            >
            >> --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, roro <roro@...> wrote:
            >>
            <snip>
            > >
            > > file gnome 3 under "no way in HELL".
            > >
            > > @-}--alanna
            >
            > As the person who came up with "Fecebook" referring to the spy site
            > used by the FBI, CIA, DIA, NRO, NIS, SD-6, et al, your opinions are
            > highly respected.
            >
            > I just now visited <http://gnome3.org/>. You are again correct, it is
            > only for the 20-somethings with cellphones jammed into their heads and
            > texting 24/7/365 as they stumble into oblivion.
            >
            > Unity on Ubuntu, Gnome 3 on Fedora; is this the fate of linux?

            It's certainly looking that way. A little bit of funny from the
            news.OpenSuse.org:
            ----
            "Dear GNOME 3,

            So, you’re born, and we here at openSUSE Project are very excited to
            welcome you into the world. We’ve been watching with anticipation and
            excitement as the many thousands of developers and contributors
            mobilized around the world to make your first steps into this world a
            reality. The videos and plethora of information shown on gnome3.org
            make clear that you’re very welcome!
            A little present

            You are surely be the most anticipated GNOME ever and we congratulate
            your proud parents with their achievement!"
            -----

            Sadly, I think they are dead serious. I gave Gnome 3 a spin on Live
            CD when it came out, spent maybe 5 minutes trying to figure out how to
            have an unmaximized window, then said to heck with it.
          • Dale Miller
            ... Wow am I going to have to switch to KDE? I like Gnome better but if there going to change the desktop to something used on a tablet or phone I m going to
            Message 5 of 24 , May 25 1:54 PM
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              On 05/25/2011 03:15 PM, thad_floryan wrote:
              >
              >> file gnome 3 under "no way in HELL".
              >>
              >> @-}--alanna
              > As the person who came up with "Fecebook" referring to the spy site
              > used by the FBI, CIA, DIA, NRO, NIS, SD-6, et al, your opinions are
              > highly respected.
              >
              > I just now visited<http://gnome3.org/>. You are again correct, it is
              > only for the 20-somethings with cellphones jammed into their heads and
              > texting 24/7/365 as they stumble into oblivion.
              >
              > Unity on Ubuntu, Gnome 3 on Fedora; is this the fate of linux?
              >
              >
              >

              Wow am I going to have to switch to KDE?
              I like Gnome better but if there going to change the desktop to
              something used on a tablet or phone I'm going to move away from Gnome.


              --
              All the Best& 73's
              Dale Miller, KC2CBD
              Tennessee
              Ham Operator since 1997
              Member of YahooPipesmokers and ASP since February 2005

              Registered Linux User: #317401
              Linux since June 2003
              Ubuntu User #26423

              stpatrick3spam@...
              stpatrick3spam@...

              (cut the spam to reply)


              VOTE TO REBUILD!
              www.twintowersalliance.com
              --
            • roro
              ... you know, now that i look at it, it might actually work on a touch-screen tablet type.. but on a regular laptop/desktop/netbook, i say no, just NO. i
              Message 6 of 24 , May 25 5:01 PM
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                On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 14:15, thad_floryan <thad@...> wrote:

                > As the person who came up with "Fecebook" referring to the spy site
                > used by the FBI, CIA, DIA, NRO, NIS, SD-6, et al, your opinions are
                > highly respected.
                >
                > I just now visited <http://gnome3.org/>. You are again correct, it is
                > only for the 20-somethings with cellphones jammed into their heads and
                > texting 24/7/365 as they stumble into oblivion.

                you know, now that i look at it, it might actually work on a
                touch-screen tablet type.. but on a regular laptop/desktop/netbook, i
                say no, just NO. i prefer a minimal desktop with metacity as my 2D
                window manager, and avant-window-navigator instead of gnome panel, and
                NO desktop icons. neat, simple and clean. and come the day that
                metacity ceases to be an option, i'll go to fluxbox (hopefully by then
                it'll have alpha compositing) :)

                @-}-- alanna
              • westmi
                ... i moved on to kde and never looked back D
                Message 7 of 24 , May 25 7:34 PM
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                  > I just now visited <http://gnome3.org/>. You are again correct, it is
                  > only for the 20-somethings with cellphones jammed into their heads and
                  > texting 24/7/365 as they stumble into oblivion.
                  >
                  > Unity on Ubuntu, Gnome 3 on Fedora; is this the fate of linux?
                  >
                  i moved on to kde and never looked back
                  D
                • Herbert R Coburn
                  ... fluxbox has served me well for several years. Simply beautiful: No clutter, period. Just a favorite wallpaper. Overview at a glance: Cursor to the bottom
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 25 8:53 PM
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                    On 05/25/2011 05:01 PM, roro wrote:
                    > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 14:15, thad_floryan<thad@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >> As the person who came up with "Fecebook" referring to the spy site
                    >> used by the FBI, CIA, DIA, NRO, NIS, SD-6, et al, your opinions are
                    >> highly respected.
                    >>
                    >> I just now visited<http://gnome3.org/>. You are again correct, it is
                    >> only for the 20-somethings with cellphones jammed into their heads and
                    >> texting 24/7/365 as they stumble into oblivion.
                    >
                    > you know, now that i look at it, it might actually work on a
                    > touch-screen tablet type.. but on a regular laptop/desktop/netbook, i
                    > say no, just NO. i prefer a minimal desktop with metacity as my 2D
                    > window manager, and avant-window-navigator instead of gnome panel, and
                    > NO desktop icons. neat, simple and clean. and come the day that
                    > metacity ceases to be an option, i'll go to fluxbox (hopefully by then
                    > it'll have alpha compositing) :)
                    >
                    > @-}-- alanna
                    >

                    fluxbox has served me well for several years.
                    Simply beautiful: No clutter, period. Just a favorite wallpaper.
                    Overview at a glance: Cursor to the bottom of the screen displays all
                    my running apps and "activities". Right-click lists all the apps I tend
                    to need.
                    Messaging built-in: Can't stand a pop-up taking focus without my
                    permission.
                    Distraction-free computing: Yeah. Have had it for years.
                    Everything at my fingertips: That's why I keep a terminal open.

                    and so on. As far as composting, I do that in the back yard.

                    /herbc
                  • Scott
                    ... Judging from Fedora Forums and various threads going on there, new people seem to like it, especially those from the phone generation, and those used to
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 25 10:40 PM
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                      On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 02:34:36AM -0000, westmi wrote:
                      >
                      > > I just now visited <http://gnome3.org/>. You are again correct, it is
                      > > only for the 20-somethings with cellphones jammed into their heads and
                      > > texting 24/7/365 as they stumble into oblivion.
                      > >
                      > > Unity on Ubuntu, Gnome 3 on Fedora; is this the fate of linux?
                      > >
                      > i moved on to kde and never looked back
                      > D

                      Judging from Fedora Forums and various threads going on there, new
                      people seem to like it, especially those from the phone generation, and
                      those used to Gnome 2 tend to dislike it.

                      When lacking inspiration, fix something that's not broken.

                      I wouldn't care very much save that RH, which is necessary to know at
                      this point, if working in the field, keeps taking these features, which
                      are aimed an imaginary, if somewhat moronic, "average" user, and putting
                      them on its enterprise system.

                      --
                      Scott Robbins
                      PGP keyID EB3467D6
                      ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                      gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                      Xander: Cavalry's here! Cavalry's a scared guy with a club, but
                      it's here!
                    • thad_floryan
                      ... I wonder if xterm and sshd will be removed from Fedora 16 or 17, soon followed by their disappearance in RHEL? I don t understand the dumbing down of
                      Message 10 of 24 , May 26 12:51 AM
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                        --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 02:34:36AM -0000, westmi wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > I just now visited <http://gnome3.org/>. You are again correct, it is
                        > > > only for the 20-somethings with cellphones jammed into their heads and
                        > > > texting 24/7/365 as they stumble into oblivion.
                        > > >
                        > > > Unity on Ubuntu, Gnome 3 on Fedora; is this the fate of linux?
                        > > >
                        > > i moved on to kde and never looked back
                        > > D
                        >
                        > Judging from Fedora Forums and various threads going on there, new
                        > people seem to like it, especially those from the phone generation,
                        > and those used to Gnome 2 tend to dislike it.
                        >
                        > When lacking inspiration, fix something that's not broken.
                        >
                        > I wouldn't care very much save that RH, which is necessary to know
                        > at this point, if working in the field, keeps taking these
                        > features, which are aimed an imaginary, if somewhat moronic,
                        > "average" user, and putting them on its enterprise system.


                        I wonder if xterm and sshd will be removed from Fedora 16 or 17, soon
                        followed by their disappearance in RHEL?

                        I don't understand the "dumbing down" of linux desktop (and, soon,
                        server) systems. I guess we saw the writing on the wall a few years
                        ago when one Fedora developer stated "I don't particularly care how
                        UNIX has always worked."

                        References to the "don't care" braindamage of the Fedora developer:

                        <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/linux/message/58081>

                        <http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/11/18/2039229/Fedora-12-Lets-Users-Install-Signed-Packages-Sans-Root-Privileges>

                        <http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/11/20/1241231/Fedora-12-Package-Installation-Policy-Tightened>

                        <https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2009-November/msg00012.html>

                        <https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-November/msg01445.html>

                        Developer's blog:

                        <http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/11/20/the-fedora-12-installing-saga/>
                      • thad_floryan
                        ... I overlooked this one in which Scott is on the soapbox:
                        Message 11 of 24 , May 26 12:55 AM
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                          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                          > [...]
                          > References to the "don't care" braindamage of the Fedora developer:
                          > [...]

                          I overlooked this one in which Scott is on the soapbox:

                          <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/linux/message/57739>
                        • thad_floryan
                          ... You re one of two people mentioning fluxbox today; several others mentioned KDE. I m going to have to look into both and see how easy it would be, if
                          Message 12 of 24 , May 26 1:28 AM
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                            --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, roro <roro@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 14:15, thad_floryan <thad@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > As the person who came up with "Fecebook" referring to the spy
                            > > site used by the FBI, CIA, DIA, NRO, NIS, SD-6, et al, your
                            > > opinions are highly respected.
                            > >
                            > > I just now visited <http://gnome3.org/>. You are again correct,
                            > > it is only for the 20-somethings with cellphones jammed into
                            > > their heads and texting 24/7/365 as they stumble into oblivion.
                            >
                            > you know, now that i look at it, it might actually work on a
                            > touch-screen tablet type.. but on a regular laptop/desktop/netbook, i
                            > say no, just NO. i prefer a minimal desktop with metacity as my 2D
                            > window manager, and avant-window-navigator instead of gnome panel, and
                            > NO desktop icons. neat, simple and clean. and come the day that
                            > metacity ceases to be an option, i'll go to fluxbox (hopefully by then
                            > it'll have alpha compositing) :)

                            You're one of two people mentioning "fluxbox" today; several others
                            mentioned KDE. I'm going to have to look into both and see how easy
                            it would be, if necessary, to build from source.

                            I wouldn't expect any problems, but I'd like to see what's involved
                            before there's a panic situation. I've built the entire X package
                            from source a number of times to replace vendors' crap interfaces so
                            I don't see this as being any big deal.

                            One thing that has me chuckling is that no one caught the reference to
                            "SD-6" as it appears at the top of this posting. SD-6 is the mythical
                            black ops intelligence agency featured in the TV series "ALIAS" by
                            J. J. Adams. Now that I'm retired, I have time to catch up on such
                            DVD sets I bought when I was working the proverbial 30 hours a day
                            and never had time to watch before. Scott knows I "did" the entire
                            "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" series recently. I finally have time to
                            update my web pages, too. New stuff on the home page and I expect to
                            have the several-thousand-pages of astronomy stuff back online after I
                            finish updating the pages to prevent further DoS attacks. Some of you
                            might get a "kick" out of my News page or even the planisphere page:

                            <http://thadlabs.com/>

                            I intend to have both a computer and photography "page" up soon, too.
                            The computer "page" will include 100s of PDFs of linux and UNIX docs
                            that aren't too readily available along with misc. stuff about linux,
                            UNIX, Windows, and even OSs I've written.
                          • Scott
                            ... Well, xterm is already not installed with a default x install, in favor of the incredibly bloated ^H^H^H^^H feature filled, gnome-terminal. Ubuntu (and
                            Message 13 of 24 , May 26 6:43 AM
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                              On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 07:51:43AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                              > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I wouldn't care very much save that RH, which is necessary to know
                              > > at this point, if working in the field, keeps taking these
                              > > features, which are aimed an imaginary, if somewhat moronic,
                              > > "average" user, and putting them on its enterprise system.
                              >
                              >
                              > I wonder if xterm and sshd will be removed from Fedora 16 or 17, soon
                              > followed by their disappearance in RHEL?

                              Well, xterm is already not installed with a default x install, in favor
                              of the incredibly bloated ^H^H^H^^H feature filled, gnome-terminal.

                              Ubuntu (and probably Gnome--perhaps this is one where RH roots still
                              show) have terminal under accessories, rather than system-tools.
                              There's a mindset there.



                              >
                              > I don't understand the "dumbing down" of linux desktop (and, soon,
                              > server) systems. I guess we saw the writing on the wall a few years
                              > ago when one Fedora developer stated "I don't particularly care how
                              > UNIX has always worked."

                              Yeah, and he's still at it, having updates of signed packages go with no
                              authorization. Him and Poettering, both employed by RH.

                              I think that more and more, some of the BSD fanboy sayings are true.

                              Linux is for people who hate Windows, BSD for those who love Unix. The
                              vast majority seem to prefer this whole MS like experience. Anyway,
                              we're both preaching to the choir here. :)


                              --
                              Scott Robbins
                              PGP keyID EB3467D6
                              ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                              gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                              Willow: You just don't like him 'cause of that time he beat you
                              up every day for five years.
                              Xander: Yeah, I'm irrational that way.
                            • Scott
                              ... Heh, well....I used to think I could make a difference---if I thought I were at my final job before retirement, I d try to switch what I could to BSD. --
                              Message 14 of 24 , May 26 6:43 AM
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                                On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 07:55:33AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                                > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                                > > [...]
                                > > References to the "don't care" braindamage of the Fedora developer:
                                > > [...]
                                >
                                > I overlooked this one in which Scott is on the soapbox:
                                >
                                > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/linux/message/57739>

                                Heh, well....I used to think I could make a difference---if I thought I
                                were at my final job before retirement, I'd try to switch what I could
                                to BSD.


                                --
                                Scott Robbins
                                PGP keyID EB3467D6
                                ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                                gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                                Anya: I swear, I am just trying to find my necklace.
                                Willow: Well, did you try looking inside the sofa in hell?
                              • Scott
                                ... There s also openbox. I have come to prefer it somewhat. ... You should now watch Angel. Then, there are the comics that followed the shows
                                Message 15 of 24 , May 26 6:46 AM
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                                  On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 08:28:15AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                                  > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, roro <roro@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 14:15, thad_floryan <thad@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > As the person who came up with "Fecebook" referring to the spy
                                  >
                                  > You're one of two people mentioning "fluxbox" today; several others
                                  > mentioned KDE. I'm going to have to look into both and see how easy
                                  > it would be, if necessary, to build from source.

                                  There's also openbox. I have come to prefer it somewhat.

                                  > and never had time to watch before. Scott knows I "did" the entire
                                  > "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" series recently.


                                  You should now watch Angel. Then, there are the comics that followed
                                  the shows' cancellations. :)


                                  It's only 5 seasons. Though the way to do it is alternate, starting from
                                  Buffy season 03, but Ok, perhaps I'm getting too esoteric here.
                                  --
                                  Scott Robbins
                                  PGP keyID EB3467D6
                                  ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                                  gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                                  Buffy: Looks like a job for wiccan-girl. What do you say,
                                  Will? Big time danger.
                                  Willow: Hey, I eat danger for breakfast.
                                  Xander: But, oddly enough, she panics in the face of breakfast
                                  foods.
                                • Al Thompson
                                  ... Heck, considering who your employer used to be, I just figured you knew something we didn t. (grin) -- ... Check out the website I ve been cobbling
                                  Message 16 of 24 , May 26 6:59 AM
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                                    On 05/26/2011 04:28 AM, thad_floryan wrote:
                                    >
                                    > One thing that has me chuckling is that no one caught the reference to
                                    > "SD-6" as it appears at the top of this posting. SD-6 is the mythical
                                    > black ops intelligence agency featured in the TV series "ALIAS" by
                                    > J. J. Adams. Now that I'm retired, I have time to catch up on such

                                    Heck, considering who your employer used to be, I just figured you knew
                                    something we didn't.

                                    (grin)


                                    --
                                    ---
                                    Check out the website I've been cobbling together. It will never be
                                    done, but it's a start:
                                    http://lateralforce.no-ip.org


                                    My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio,
                                    mixing, equipment, etc, is at:
                                    http://audioandmore.wordpress.com


                                    Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch;
                                    und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.'
                                    - [Friedrich Nietzsche]
                                  • thad_floryan
                                    ... You re right. Sigh. So where does this place me? I ve used (and liked) UNIX since day 1. I still have 3 fully-operational AT&T System V UNIX boxes here,
                                    Message 17 of 24 , May 26 12:50 PM
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                                      --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 07:51:43AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                                      > > [...]
                                      > > I don't understand the "dumbing down" of linux desktop (and, soon,
                                      > > server) systems. I guess we saw the writing on the wall a few
                                      > > years ago when one Fedora developer stated "I don't particularly
                                      > > care how UNIX has always worked."
                                      >
                                      > Yeah, and he's still at it, having updates of signed packages go
                                      > with no authorization. Him and Poettering, both employed by RH.
                                      >
                                      > I think that more and more, some of the BSD fanboy sayings are
                                      > true.
                                      >
                                      > Linux is for people who hate Windows, BSD for those who love Unix.
                                      > The vast majority seem to prefer this whole MS like experience.
                                      > Anyway, we're both preaching to the choir here. :)

                                      You're right. Sigh.

                                      So where does this place me? I've used (and liked) UNIX since day 1.
                                      I still have 3 fully-operational AT&T System V UNIX boxes here, the
                                      3B1 (aka UNICpc aka PC7300) see <http://unixpc.taronga.com/3b1.gif>.
                                      I was annually reelected president and ran the AT&T Silicon Valley
                                      UNIX Users Group for the entirety of its existence until AT&T went and
                                      abandoned UNIX. The Convergent MightyFrame UNIX box that used to be
                                      the student mainframe at the College of San Mateo (CA) is still in my
                                      garage (and it still works). You can see four Sun Solaris boxes in
                                      the background of this pic <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Thad_desk.jpg>
                                      with 10 more in another room. And I have five Windows systems, too.
                                      You'd be hard-pressed to differentiate them on my monitor since their
                                      desktops are all quite similar due to my tweaks, etc. Oh, and there
                                      are 3 Amiga systems here, too, along with a Commodore C64. :-)

                                      :-)
                                    • Dale Miller
                                      ... I have to agree. I don t like a desktop full of icons. I have my most used program icons on the panel. I have looked at some of the others and didn t
                                      Message 18 of 24 , May 26 1:29 PM
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                                        On 05/25/2011 07:01 PM, roro wrote:
                                        >
                                        > you know, now that i look at it, it might actually work on a
                                        > touch-screen tablet type.. but on a regular laptop/desktop/netbook, i
                                        > say no, just NO. i prefer a minimal desktop with metacity as my 2D
                                        > window manager, and avant-window-navigator instead of gnome panel, and
                                        > NO desktop icons. neat, simple and clean. and come the day that
                                        > metacity ceases to be an option, i'll go to fluxbox (hopefully by then
                                        > it'll have alpha compositing) :)
                                        >
                                        > @-}-- alanna
                                        >
                                        >

                                        I have to agree.
                                        I don't like a desktop full of icons.
                                        I have my most used program icons on the panel.
                                        I have looked at some of the others and didn't really care for any of them.
                                        Use to use KDE till I tried Gnome, and to me it was much faster.
                                        I may try lxde again if the desktop starts looking like a tablet or phone.

                                        --
                                        All the Best& 73's
                                        Dale Miller, KC2CBD
                                        Tennessee
                                        Ham Operator since 1997
                                        Member of YahooPipesmokers and ASP since February 2005

                                        Registered Linux User: #317401
                                        Linux since June 2003
                                        Ubuntu User #26423

                                        stpatrick3spam@...
                                        stpatrick3spam@...

                                        (cut the spam to reply)


                                        VOTE TO REBUILD!
                                        www.twintowersalliance.com
                                        --
                                      • Jye
                                        ... From: thad_floryan To: Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:50 PM Subject: [linux] Re: Fedora 15 released today,
                                        Message 19 of 24 , May 26 10:52 PM
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                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "thad_floryan" <thad@...>
                                          To: <linux@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2011 3:50 PM
                                          Subject: [linux] Re: Fedora 15 released today, 24-MAY-2011


                                          > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                                          >>
                                          >> On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 07:51:43AM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                                          >> > [...]
                                          >> > I don't understand the "dumbing down" of linux desktop (and, soon,
                                          >> > server) systems. I guess we saw the writing on the wall a few
                                          >> > years ago when one Fedora developer stated "I don't particularly
                                          >> > care how UNIX has always worked."
                                          >>
                                          >> Yeah, and he's still at it, having updates of signed packages go
                                          >> with no authorization. Him and Poettering, both employed by RH.
                                          >>
                                          >> I think that more and more, some of the BSD fanboy sayings are
                                          >> true.
                                          >>
                                          >> Linux is for people who hate Windows, BSD for those who love Unix.
                                          >> The vast majority seem to prefer this whole MS like experience.
                                          >> Anyway, we're both preaching to the choir here. :)
                                          >
                                          > You're right. Sigh.
                                          >
                                          > So where does this place me? I've used (and liked) UNIX since day 1.
                                          > I still have 3 fully-operational AT&T System V UNIX boxes here, the
                                          > 3B1 (aka UNICpc aka PC7300) see <http://unixpc.taronga.com/3b1.gif>.
                                          > I was annually reelected president and ran the AT&T Silicon Valley
                                          > UNIX Users Group for the entirety of its existence until AT&T went and
                                          > abandoned UNIX. The Convergent MightyFrame UNIX box that used to be
                                          > the student mainframe at the College of San Mateo (CA) is still in my
                                          > garage (and it still works). You can see four Sun Solaris boxes in
                                          > the background of this pic <http://thadlabs.com/PIX/Thad_desk.jpg>
                                          > with 10 more in another room. And I have five Windows systems, too.
                                          > You'd be hard-pressed to differentiate them on my monitor since their
                                          > desktops are all quite similar due to my tweaks, etc. Oh, and there
                                          > are 3 Amiga systems here, too, along with a Commodore C64. :-)
                                          <snip>
                                          I read they're supposed to be bringing the C64 back
                                          (http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/06/commodore-usa-puts-the-new-c64-up-for-pre-sales-unveils-far-les/)?
                                          If so I hope someone brings back the TRS-80 I used to love that system.

                                          Jye
                                        • Al Thompson
                                          ... Well, they can forget the cassette interface. My 4K Model I had one of those, and I remember all too well sitting for 15 minutes waiting for a program to
                                          Message 20 of 24 , May 26 10:55 PM
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                                            On 05/27/2011 01:52 AM, Jye wrote:
                                            > are 3 Amiga systems here, too, along with a Commodore C64. :-)
                                            > <snip>
                                            > I read they're supposed to be bringing the C64 back
                                            > (http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/06/commodore-usa-puts-the-new-c64-up-for-pre-sales-unveils-far-les/)?
                                            > If so I hope someone brings back the TRS-80 I used to love that system.

                                            Well, they can forget the cassette interface. My 4K Model I had one of
                                            those, and I remember all too well sitting for 15 minutes waiting for a
                                            program to load, only to have a read error.


                                            --
                                            ---
                                            Check out the website I've been cobbling together. It will never be
                                            done, but it's a start:
                                            http://lateralforce.no-ip.org


                                            My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio,
                                            mixing, equipment, etc, is at:
                                            http://audioandmore.wordpress.com


                                            Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch;
                                            und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.'
                                            - [Friedrich Nietzsche]
                                          • thad_floryan
                                            ... If you think that s something, look what I just found: Lunix (Little UNIX) for the C64: Heh, there s this on
                                            Message 21 of 24 , May 27 12:42 AM
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                                              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Jye <jyesluv@...> wrote:
                                              > [...]
                                              > I read they're supposed to be bringing the C64 back
                                              > (http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/06/commodore-usa-puts-the-new-c64-up-for-pre-sales-unveils-far-les/)
                                              > If so I hope someone brings back the TRS-80 I used to love that
                                              > system.

                                              If you think that's something, look what I just found: Lunix (Little
                                              UNIX) for the C64:

                                              <http://hld.c64.org/poldi/lunix/lunix.html>

                                              Heh, there's this on that page: Updated Dec 7 1997

                                              Ugh, I'd have to move about 15-20 large computers to even get to my C64
                                              to see if it still powers up. I added debugging hardware circa probably
                                              1982 to it which includes a row of LEDs that display the system's state.
                                              It probably belongs in the Computer History Museum which is about two
                                              miles away: <http://www.computerhistory.org/>.
                                            • Donald Cooley
                                              ... This might be helpful if you wanted to build KDE from source. http://slackware.mirrors.tds.net/pub/slackware/slackware-13.37/source/kde/ IF I understand
                                              Message 22 of 24 , May 27 2:58 PM
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                                                On 05/26/2011 03:28 AM, thad_floryan wrote:
                                                >
                                                > You're one of two people mentioning "fluxbox" today; several others
                                                > mentioned KDE. I'm going to have to look into both and see how easy
                                                > it would be, if necessary, to build from source.
                                                >
                                                > I wouldn't expect any problems, but I'd like to see what's involved
                                                > before there's a panic situation. I've built the entire X package
                                                > from source a number of times to replace vendors' crap interfaces so
                                                > I don't see this as being any big deal.
                                                This might be helpful if you wanted to build KDE from source.

                                                http://slackware.mirrors.tds.net/pub/slackware/slackware-13.37/source/kde/

                                                IF I understand correctly the first item listed at the above link is
                                                KDE.SlackBuild which I think is a shell script that will build all of KDE.
                                              • Jye
                                                ... From: Al Thompson To: Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:55 AM Subject: Re: [linux] Re: Fedora 15 released
                                                Message 23 of 24 , May 27 7:47 PM
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                                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                                  From: "Al Thompson" <althompson58@...>
                                                  To: <linux@yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 1:55 AM
                                                  Subject: Re: [linux] Re: Fedora 15 released today, 24-MAY-2011


                                                  > On 05/27/2011 01:52 AM, Jye wrote:
                                                  >> are 3 Amiga systems here, too, along with a Commodore C64. :-)
                                                  >> <snip>
                                                  >> I read they're supposed to be bringing the C64 back
                                                  >> (http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/06/commodore-usa-puts-the-new-c64-up-for-pre-sales-unveils-far-les/)?
                                                  >> If so I hope someone brings back the TRS-80 I used to love that system.
                                                  >
                                                  > Well, they can forget the cassette interface. My 4K Model I had one of
                                                  > those, and I remember all too well sitting for 15 minutes waiting for a
                                                  > program to load, only to have a read error.
                                                  <snip>
                                                  Oh wow, I had a cassette recorder as well. As a kid I thought that was the
                                                  coolest thing in the world, even made a cool sound when played back...lol

                                                  Jye
                                                • thad_floryan
                                                  ... Thank you very much for the above link! Between the holiday weekend and helping my best friend acquire a new household computer after the #%#$@
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Jun 1, 2011
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Donald Cooley <dfcooley@...> wrote:
                                                    > [...]
                                                    > This might be helpful if you wanted to build KDE from source.
                                                    >
                                                    > http://slackware.mirrors.tds.net/pub/slackware/slackware-13.37/source/kde/
                                                    >
                                                    > IF I understand correctly the first item listed at the above link is
                                                    > KDE.SlackBuild which I think is a shell script that will build all of
                                                    > KDE.

                                                    Thank you very much for the above link! Between the holiday weekend and
                                                    helping my best friend acquire a new household computer after the #%#$@
                                                    motherboard went out (HP and Foxconn are the culprits) I'm just now
                                                    catching up on messages.

                                                    I'm "pushing" him towards a Lenovo system with a 3.1 GHz quad-core AMD,
                                                    8GB RAM, 1TB HD systems. I like it so much I may buy one for myself too.
                                                    See <http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/jbook.pdf> and see page 11 for the
                                                    7723-1AU or the 7723-1DU (preferred). Though he worked for HP Labs for
                                                    30 years, it's clear HP consumer computers lack the quality that used
                                                    to be associated with HP.
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