Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [linux] Ubuntu 10.04 released, window title bar buttons moved

Expand Messages
  • Chris
    On Sat, 01 May 2010 00:55:13 -0000 ... It s probably vaguely evil of me that I want to take some of the people who are complaining about that change, and sit
    Message 1 of 18 , May 1 1:59 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      On Sat, 01 May 2010 00:55:13 -0000
      "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:

      > Among other changes, the minimize/maximize/close buttons have been
      > moved from the upper right corner of windows to the upper left corner.

      It's probably vaguely evil of me that I want to take some of the people who
      are complaining about that change, and sit them down in front of my system
      running e16, just to see their heads explode.

      I understand the whole "it's not what users are used to" thing, but
      anyone'd think that they were kidnapping people's grandmothers and turning
      them into burgers from the way some people are carrying on about it...

      chris
      --
      |=[ Starforge - Forging new realities ]=======[ http://www.starforge.co.uk >
      |=[ Project Alexandria ]===============[ http://alexandria.starforge.co.uk >
      |=[ Images from the Edge of infinity ]====[ http://gallery.starforge.co.uk >
      '=[ Quod nesciunt eos interficiet. ]
      --
      If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?
    • G. Stewart
      ... Hash: SHA1 ... Homer Simpson: Hmm.... Grannyburger... Drool... OK, I admit it, I m feeling silly this morning :) - -- G. Stewart - grs.ygroups@horwits.com
      Message 2 of 18 , May 1 2:33 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        Hash: SHA1

        On Sat, 1 May 2010 09:59:18 +0100, Chris <chris@...> wrote:

        > I understand the whole "it's not what users are used to" thing, but
        > anyone'd think that they were kidnapping people's grandmothers and turning
        > them into burgers from the way some people are carrying on about it...

        Homer Simpson: Hmm.... Grannyburger... Drool...

        OK, I admit it, I'm feeling silly this morning :)

        - --
        G. Stewart - grs.ygroups@...

        If carrots are so good for the eyes, how come I see so many dead rabbits
        on the highway?
        -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
        Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)

        iEYEARECAAYFAkvb9VEACgkQQFKNtNdpr3ZVlACgn85+WikGCIPUoQvxxGZzf/PK
        80gAoKAUle+qB1BJ0xGBIgeG5F4zx+CJ
        =Ldjg
        -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
      • visual_infinityuk
        ... How unnecessary and anoying to those in the habit of clicking top right. Whats the history like on the upgrade facility? I haven t seen any bugs in 9.10
        Message 3 of 18 , May 1 2:55 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
          >
          > Among other changes, the minimize/maximize/close buttons have been
          > moved from the upper right corner of windows to the upper left corner.
          >

          How unnecessary and anoying to those in the habit of clicking top right. Whats the history like on the upgrade facility? I haven't seen any bugs in 9.10 release except maybe the menu not always showing buttons to newly installed applications.
        • Scott
          ... Meh. Use fluxbox and avoid the whole issue. It s odd that people get so excited about such a minor, easily changed thing. I don t really care what it
          Message 4 of 18 , May 1 5:12 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 09:59:18AM +0100, Chris wrote:
            > On Sat, 01 May 2010 00:55:13 -0000
            > "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Among other changes, the minimize/maximize/close buttons have been
            > > moved from the upper right corner of windows to the upper left corner.
            >
            > It's probably vaguely evil of me that I want to take some of the people who
            > are complaining about that change, and sit them down in front of my system
            > running e16, just to see their heads explode.
            >

            Meh. Use fluxbox and avoid the whole issue.
            It's odd that people get so excited about such a minor, easily changed
            thing. I don't really care what it looks like, Mac is prettier, I
            guess, if it comes to that, but really--how often do you look at your
            desktop. Right now, I have a browser and several terminals open (that
            are opened and closed by keyboard shortcuts, and have no decorations,
            including menu buttons).

            The important things for a Linux distribution to worry about--and for
            its users to worry about....

            Does it work with my hardware?
            Am I going to have to google to get the pestilence known as pulse audio
            to work? In other words, do sound, networking, and peripherals work
            without much effort?

            Can I run my applications, whatever they may be?

            The more popular Ubuntu becomes, the better, in many ways, for Linux in
            general. The bad decisions, tying things like sound and networking to a
            GUI, pulseaudio--well, on the other hand, hardware support, number of
            applications, Asian input--many things constantly improve too.


            --
            Scott Robbins
            PGP keyID EB3467D6
            ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
            gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

            Buffy: I lost a friend tonight and I may lose more! The whole
            world may be sucked into hell, and you want my help 'cause your
            girlfriend's a big ho?! Let me take this opportunity to NOT care!
          • visual_infinityuk
            ... Well if you fancy a flight over to the uk you can join me, I just tried it (my usb didnt work but in the meantime I wrte the iso to a CD) and when it
            Message 5 of 18 , May 1 6:27 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
              >
              > I'm getting ready with popcorn and beer to read about all the other
              > surprises and gotchas in this release which is supposed to be LTS
              > (Long Term Support).
              >

              Well if you fancy a flight over to the uk you can join me, I just tried it (my usb didnt work but in the meantime I wrte the iso to a CD) and when it started up, it didnt connect to wifi automatically, the updates only had two small files which was fine, however the nvidia drivers installed but didnt work for hardware acceleration. curiously when I rebooted into ubuntu 9.10 it showed Kubuntu startup screen, I had installed KDE before however I was never able to get it running, so why has it poped up now? It had graphics issues and then I rebooted and the kubuntu screen showed again, shortly before showing the ubuntu screen.
            • Robert C Wittig
              ... Hash: SHA1 ... Sometimes I have it littered with all sorts of cruft, but today, it is pretty clean: http://www.robertwittig.net/temp/Desktop.png I like the
              Message 6 of 18 , May 1 7:48 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                Hash: SHA1

                Scott wrote:

                > but really--how often do you look at your
                > desktop.

                Sometimes I have it littered with all sorts of cruft, but today, it is
                pretty clean:

                http://www.robertwittig.net/temp/Desktop.png

                I like the OpenBSD wallpaper so much, I have it installed on all three
                of my Workstation machines... even the Windows Vista one. :)


                - --
                - -wittig
                http://www.robertwittig.com/
                http://robertwittig.net/
                http://robertwittig.org/
                .
                -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
                Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
                Comment: Using GnuPG with CentOS - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

                iQEVAwUBS9w/Jf9qkhAVPSgqAQIKkgf/VJdQNdVJCUm68FiOlTLm8ziUmcg44dqD
                glO84/N2YXrx/vE5efNeqTrguTiqTgIXBVFsGf/5n50SyIln/TlanwJehqaO7pZ3
                Xk/srUg3uMmiL4HsB2xe5U92mPcUbXQcKDWXlI39bkTSVTJrXuUaYluQvUaBBXwM
                8wIgMyhc2T8nbSVwXddXNMDC4ZaHzKILZpZP6rOM8ie2EXPnBpyF80Lsp7ddTXoS
                rDIPwlgQ/0cR29FVAcjkJtIRwN2cMIgE7LvMZ5dlDMADVSTNCK2pZHmMbRF+6RMc
                rfaWPShXdDbuIQIYvl/AkVuwqj/wZ+PSumsZxDGARGVMKlWdHr+SEg==
                =SK/q
                -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
              • visual_infinityuk
                ... Still working on wifi, but I used an older driver for nvdia and it worked.
                Message 7 of 18 , May 1 7:54 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "visual_infinityuk" <visual_infinityuk@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > it didnt connect to wifi automatically, the updates only had two small files which was fine, however the nvidia drivers installed but didnt work for hardware acceleration.


                  Still working on wifi, but I used an older driver for nvdia and it worked.
                • thad_floryan
                  ... The upper-right corner for those buttons is a defacto standard since at least 1984 on my AT&T 3B1 (aka UNIXPC aka PC7300); I still have 3 functioning 3B1
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 1 4:19 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Chris <chris@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On Sat, 01 May 2010 00:55:13 -0000
                    > "thad_floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Among other changes, the minimize/maximize/close buttons have been
                    > > moved from the upper right corner of windows to the upper left corner.
                    >
                    > It's probably vaguely evil of me that I want to take some of the people who
                    > are complaining about that change, and sit them down in front of my system
                    > running e16, just to see their heads explode.
                    >
                    > I understand the whole "it's not what users are used to" thing, but
                    > anyone'd think that they were kidnapping people's grandmothers and turning
                    > them into burgers from the way some people are carrying on about it...

                    The upper-right corner for those buttons is a defacto "standard"
                    since at least 1984 on my AT&T 3B1 (aka UNIXPC aka PC7300); I still
                    have 3 functioning 3B1 systems. All of my SunOS and Solaris systems
                    have the buttons at the upper-right corner. And just about everything
                    else I have here (Linux and Windows) has those buttons in the
                    upper-right corner.

                    The only system of which I'm aware with the buttons in the upper-left
                    corner is MacOS. Is Canonical going after the Mac market?

                    At least the "correct" positioning can be restored, but this begs the
                    question "WTF's wrong with Canonical changing them for no apparent
                    good reason?"

                    Moving the buttons like that is as insane as going back to "random"
                    pedal position in automobiles. As one person wrote on Usenet in this
                    regards, his classic Bentley has the gas pedal in the middle between
                    the clutch and brake pedals. A similar problem existed with gear
                    positions. How about traffic control lights with red on top? There
                    is a reason for certain standards requiring intuitive responses.
                  • Scott
                    ... I don t know, but the thing here is that Mac is certainly a well known O/S and has success with it. ... According to Mr. Shuttleworth, it s to clear the
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 1 4:44 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On Sat, May 01, 2010 at 11:19:31PM -0000, thad_floryan wrote:
                      > >
                      >
                      > The upper-right corner for those buttons is a defacto "standard"
                      > since at least 1984 on my AT&T 3B1 (aka UNIXPC aka PC7300); I still
                      > have 3 functioning 3B1 systems. All of my SunOS and Solaris systems
                      > have the buttons at the upper-right corner. And just about everything
                      > else I have here (Linux and Windows) has those buttons in the
                      > upper-right corner.
                      >
                      > The only system of which I'm aware with the buttons in the upper-left
                      > corner is MacOS. Is Canonical going after the Mac market?

                      I don't know, but the thing here is that Mac is certainly a well known
                      O/S and has success with it.

                      >
                      > At least the "correct" positioning can be restored, but this begs the
                      > question "WTF's wrong with Canonical changing them for no apparent
                      > good reason?"

                      According to Mr. Shuttleworth, it's to clear the right side of the
                      window for future plans. Whatever one thinks of it, he's done so much
                      for Linux so far, including, as I mentioned earlier, aiding in getting
                      it supported by hardware and software vendors, that I'll let him
                      slide--which I'm sure is very important to him. :)

                      I understand what you're saying--after all, I use Fedora (we're working
                      hard to make Windows the better choice). Also, as mentioned, there are
                      several themes, available with a click, that use the standard right hand
                      buttons.

                      I guess, since I'm so elite and seldom use such buttons, I'm relatively
                      unsympathetic. :)


                      >
                      > Moving the buttons like that is as insane as going back to "random"
                      > pedal position in automobiles.

                      Now *that* is an interesting thought. Could be a new reality TV show,
                      "Which one is the brake?"

                      I dunno, in this one case, I'm going to respectfully disagree about its
                      importance. Those who already use Ubuntu will quickly figure out how
                      to fix it if they want, those who are new to it will just think, Oh,
                      like a Mac.

                      It's not like pulseaudio, which has made what should be intuitive and
                      easy, sound, a pain in the neck.

                      --
                      Scott Robbins
                      PGP keyID EB3467D6
                      ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                      gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                      Buffy: Could I be seeing Billy's asteroid body?
                      Giles: Astral body, and I don't know.
                    • visual_infinityuk
                      I just discovered gparted isn t installed by default on my Ubuntu 10.4 32bit. Also I wanted to be able to install ubuntu with my choice of what is and is not
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 2 3:32 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I just discovered gparted isn't installed by default on my Ubuntu 10.4 32bit. Also I wanted to be able to install ubuntu with my choice of what is and is not installed, however I never get that choice, I guess i could use the live disk and uninstall stuff before installing to HD, but thats a pretty sloppy way of doing it.
                      • Scott
                        ... Ubuntu doesn t seem made for that. There is the alternate install CD, which gives you a text based installation. You add X afterwards. That is, after
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 2 3:47 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On Sun, May 02, 2010 at 10:32:16AM -0000, visual_infinityuk wrote:
                          > I just discovered gparted isn't installed by default on my Ubuntu 10.4 32bit. Also I wanted to be able to install ubuntu with my choice of what is and is not installed, however I never get that choice, I guess i could use the live disk and uninstall stuff before installing to HD, but thats a pretty sloppy way of doing it.
                          >

                          Ubuntu doesn't seem made for that. There is the alternate install CD,
                          which gives you a text based installation. You add X afterwards.

                          That is, after booting the installation, you don't yet have X windows,
                          you boot into text mode.


                          --
                          Scott Robbins
                          PGP keyID EB3467D6
                          ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                          gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                          Buffy: I'm sorry, it's just been a really weird day.
                          Xander: Yeah, Buffy died and everything.
                          Willow: Wow, harsh.
                        • J
                          ... Not necessarily so... the alternate CD will give you X during the install (it s just the installer that doesn t run in X). The SERVER images do not
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 2 9:08 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 06:47, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:
                            > On Sun, May 02, 2010 at 10:32:16AM -0000, visual_infinityuk wrote:
                            >> I just discovered gparted isn't installed by default on my Ubuntu 10.4 32bit. Also I wanted to be able to install ubuntu with my choice of what is and is not installed, however I never get that choice, I guess i could use the live disk and uninstall stuff before installing to HD, but thats a pretty sloppy way of doing it.
                            >>
                            >
                            > Ubuntu doesn't seem made for that.  There is the alternate install CD,
                            > which gives you a text based installation.  You add X afterwards.
                            >
                            > That is, after booting the installation, you don't yet have X windows,
                            > you boot into text mode.

                            Not necessarily so... the alternate CD will give you X during the
                            install (it's just the installer that doesn't run in X). The SERVER
                            images do not install X by default, but the alternate ones do.

                            And yes, if you want to pick and choose, use the alternate images...
                            they allow an installation process similar to the good old days when
                            you'd tell the Red Hat installer that you wanted Expert mode... and
                            you did everything by hand.

                            My biggest complaint so far with any of the installation methods is
                            that none of them allow you to pre-configure more then one ethernet
                            device... so if you have 2 or more, you can only choose one. :(
                          • Scott
                            ... Ah, I think it might have changed then (IF I remember correctly, which I may not.) ... Speaking of, had to laugh at the current RH release notes for RH6.
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 3 3:18 AM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              On Mon, May 03, 2010 at 12:08:05AM -0400, J wrote:
                              > On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 06:47, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:

                              > >
                              > > Ubuntu doesn't seem made for that.  There is the alternate install CD,
                              > > which gives you a text based installation.  You add X afterwards.
                              > >
                              > > That is, after booting the installation, you don't yet have X windows,
                              > > you boot into text mode.
                              >
                              > Not necessarily so... the alternate CD will give you X during the
                              > install (it's just the installer that doesn't run in X). The SERVER
                              > images do not install X by default, but the alternate ones do.

                              Ah, I think it might have changed then (IF I remember correctly, which I
                              may not.)

                              >
                              > And yes, if you want to pick and choose, use the alternate images...
                              > they allow an installation process similar to the good old days when
                              > you'd tell the Red Hat installer that you wanted Expert mode... and
                              > you did everything by hand.
                              >

                              Speaking of, had to laugh at the current RH release notes for RH6.
                              They've followed Fedora and completely crippled the text mode install in
                              RH. You can't select packages, custom partition, or anything else. The
                              notes say something like text mode has been streamlined and simplified.
                              One suspects they hired the same fellow who thought up the term,
                              "Windows Genuine Advantage." Ah, the marvels of spin.



                              > My biggest complaint so far with any of the installation methods is
                              > that none of them allow you to pre-configure more then one ethernet
                              > device... so if you have 2 or more, you can only choose one. :(

                              However, when it comes up, if you have both a wired and wireless, it
                              will try to connect both of them, which is annoying. (This isn't Ubuntu
                              only, this seems to be anything using NetworkManager.).


                              --
                              Scott Robbins
                              PGP keyID EB3467D6
                              ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                              gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                              Angel: The Master arose. He let me live... to punish me. I kept
                              hoping you'd come. My destiny...
                              Buffy: Is this a get-in-my-pants thing? You guys in Sunnydale
                              talk like I'm the second coming.
                            • J
                              ... Yeah, and in all honesty, I ve never been a big fan of NetworkManager either. And it is quite annoying, as you pointed out, to have both wireless and
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 3 7:37 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 06:18, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:

                                >> My biggest complaint so far with any of the installation methods is
                                >> that none of them allow you to pre-configure more then one ethernet
                                >> device... so if you have 2 or more, you can only choose one. :(
                                >
                                > However, when it comes up, if you have both a wired and wireless, it
                                > will try to connect both of them, which is annoying. (This isn't Ubuntu
                                > only, this seems to be anything using NetworkManager.).

                                Yeah, and in all honesty, I've never been a big fan of NetworkManager
                                either. And it is quite annoying, as you pointed out, to have both
                                wireless and cable enabled simultaneously and no way that I've found
                                yet to set copper as the primary and have wireless only turn on when
                                copper is not present... :(

                                oh for the days of manually configuring ifcfg-ethX and using ifup and
                                ifdown from a console :)
                              • visual_infinityuk
                                Well, I installed wicd on someones advice, and it installed and saw more networks than nm-applet --sm-disable did, it saw my network, but when it tried to
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 3 8:23 AM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Well, I installed wicd on someones advice, and it installed and saw more networks than nm-applet --sm-disable did, it saw my network, but when it tried to connect it said password failed. I chose right encryption and tried both with "passphrase" and "preshared key" mode however both said pw failed.
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.