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Re: Linux free vs paid for

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  • thad_floryan
    ... Live CDs don t always work. When I wanted to play with CentOS live CD back in 2008 it would not boot. Long story short, due to a major bug by Red Hat
    Message 1 of 15 , Apr 11 7:10 PM
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      --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Joan Leach <jleach728@...> wrote:
      > [...]
      > this is why Live CDs are so great, they allow you to try them and
      > then show your support by buying that version or the next.

      Live CDs don't always work. When I wanted to "play" with CentOS' live
      CD back in 2008 it would not boot. Long story short, due to a major
      bug by Red Hat going back years, the ISO for (many) live CDs based on
      Red Hat products do not support SATA CD/DVD (and HD?) drives. An
      installed CentOS would (support SATA drives) but I wasn't going to fuss
      with an IDE CD drive on some of my newer systems.

      I filed a CentOS bugzilla on it, the bug is acknowledged, and so far
      no one has done anything about the problem. Bugzilla here:

      <http://bugs.centos.org/view.php?id=3123>
    • Robert C Wittig
      ... Hash: SHA1 ... “Free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,”
      Message 2 of 15 , Apr 12 2:33 AM
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        Bill wrote:
        >
        >
        > I have not paid for a single distro yet. I am now running Ubuntu 64 bit
        > and love it. I could be wrong but when Linus Torvalds designed the
        > Linux kernel I thought his intent was to keep it free. Bill
        >

        “Free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the
        concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech,” not as in “free
        beer.”

        Read the complete explanation:

        http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html


        - --
        - -wittig
        http://www.robertwittig.com/
        http://robertwittig.net/
        http://robertwittig.org/
        .
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      • visual_infinityuk
        ... I m curious about this because I ve used the internet for ten years... am currently on about 40 yahoo groups, before a cleanout I was on 60 and been to and
        Message 3 of 15 , Apr 12 2:38 AM
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          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Joan Leach <jleach728@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > MODERATOR'S NOTE:
          > Top posting corrected. Please do it yourself in the future, or posts will not be approved. Please review the links on the group's home page.
          >
          > http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
          >
          > http://howto-pages.org/posting_style/
          >

          I'm curious about this because I've used the internet for ten years... am currently on about 40 yahoo groups, before a cleanout I was on 60 and been to and left many more and have used this since Egroups... I've used about 20 other forums on the net and sent/received literally thousands of emails in that time from all walks of life and from top businesses... and this is the ONLY place I have seen people suggest the 'correct' way to post is to post below a message...
        • Robert C Wittig
          ... Hash: SHA1 ... I purchased Red Hat Enterprise 3 (the CD package), which included a 3 year support license, and an additional 3 year support license for a
          Message 4 of 15 , Apr 12 2:50 AM
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            visual_infinityuk wrote:

            > I understand some linux distros you have to pay for, are these any
            > easier or better than ones you don't? Are paid for versions of linux
            > easier or better than free ones? If so which ones and in what way?
            >

            I purchased Red Hat Enterprise 3 (the CD package), which included a 3
            year support license, and an additional 3 year support license for a
            second machine.

            Currently, I am running CentOS 5.4, which is Red Hat 5, with all the Red
            Hat branding removed, for which I paid nothing (yet), but for which I am
            receiving updates (same support I was getting from Red Hat)... for free,
            as in no money.

            I will begin donating money to the CentOS project soon, though, and I
            have already begun donating time to the project, by joining their
            official support email list, where I can answer questions for people,
            from time to time, same as I do here.

            There are also a short list of other Open Source projects I donate time
            and money to, because I use their software, and really like it, and want
            to see the project continue to succeed.

            The 'Open Source Model' differs significantly from the 'Microsoft Model'.

            See: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

            ...and:
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_and_closed_source


            - --
            - -wittig
            http://www.robertwittig.com/
            http://robertwittig.net/
            http://robertwittig.org/
            .
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          • G. Stewart (SM)
            ... Please re-read the documents. It isn t simply a case of above or below. What we ask people to do is post in the clear, concise manner that people used to
            Message 5 of 15 , Apr 12 4:26 AM
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              On Mon, April 12, 2010 10:38 am, visual_infinityuk wrote:

              > [...] this is the ONLY place I have seen people suggest the 'correct' way
              > to post is to post below a message...

              Please re-read the documents.

              It isn't simply a case of above or below. What we ask people to do is post
              in the clear, concise manner that people used to use regularly until
              sloppy mail clients came along and encouraged lazy behaviour.

              Please trim irrelevant material from your replies, quote the relevant
              material correctly and insert your response to each point in a message
              just below your quotation of that point.

              In this case, where I'm responding to only one point, it does look like
              simply posting a response below the original, but you will notice that I
              have also removed everyhting of yours except that to which I am actually
              replying. There is a correct attribution of the quoted material to its
              author (you), then the trimmed, quoted response of mine followed by a
              signature separated from the main body of the message with a proper
              signature delimiter (dash-dash-space on its own on a line).

              --
              G. Stewart -- <grs.ygroups@...>
            • Michael Sullivan
              ... The way I heard it (and this was years ago) you re actually paying for support services from the developers. Today almost (I say almost only because I
              Message 6 of 15 , Apr 12 6:01 AM
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                On Sun, 2010-04-11 at 21:22 +0000, visual_infinityuk wrote:
                >
                > Dear all,
                >
                > I don't know if I am opening up a pandoras box here, but...
                >
                > I understand some linux distros you have to pay for, are these any
                > easier or better than ones you don't? Are paid for versions of linux
                > easier or better than free ones? If so which ones and in what way?
                >
                > Regards,

                The way I heard it (and this was years ago) you're actually paying for
                support services from the developers. Today almost (I say 'almost' only
                because I don't know every single distro out there) every distrobution
                has a free support base in the form of a forum or a mailing list. HTH
              • Scott
                ... On more technical mailing lists, such as, for example, the FreeBSD lists, you will stil find it. People will simply be told, brusquely, don t top post. I
                Message 7 of 15 , Apr 12 6:57 AM
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                  On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 09:38:10AM -0000, visual_infinityuk wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Joan Leach <jleach728@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > MODERATOR'S NOTE:
                  > > Top posting corrected. Please do it yourself in the future, or posts will not be approved. Please review the links on the group's home page.
                  > >
                  > > http://linux.sgms-centre.com/misc/netiquette.php
                  > >
                  > > http://howto-pages.org/posting_style/
                  > >
                  >
                  > I'm curious about this because I've used the internet for ten years... am currently on about 40 yahoo groups, before a cleanout I was on 60 and been to and left many more and have used this since Egroups... I've used about 20 other forums on the net and sent/received literally thousands of emails in that time from all walks of life and from top businesses... and this is the ONLY place I have seen people suggest the 'correct' way to post is to post below a message...



                  On more technical mailing lists, such as, for example, the FreeBSD
                  lists, you will stil find it. People will simply be told, brusquely,
                  don't top post. I can on with other (non-yahoo) lists, but honestly,
                  there are many.

                  Due to smart phones, and other things gradually changing, it becomes
                  less and less common, but if you want people to read your emails, many
                  experienced people, who probably receive mail from many lists, will
                  simply ignore it. Yes, it's easy enough to scroll down and see what the
                  email is about, but generally, the people most able to help are the ones
                  who are busiest.

                  --
                  Scott Robbins
                  PGP keyID EB3467D6
                  ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                  gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6

                  Buffy: Who are you?
                  Angel: Let's just say, I'm a friend.
                  Buffy: Yeah, maybe I don't want a friend.
                  Angel: I didn't say I was yours.
                • J
                  No, I m not gonna top post ;-) ... Indeed... not saying that I have a $CLUE because I m modest like that, but honestly, I have too much stuff to do during the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Apr 12 7:18 AM
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                    No, I'm not gonna top post ;-)

                    On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 09:57, Scott <scottro@...> wrote:

                    > On more technical mailing lists, such as, for example, the FreeBSD
                    > lists, you will stil find it.  People will simply be told, brusquely,
                    > don't top post.  I can on with other (non-yahoo) lists, but honestly,
                    > there are many.
                    >
                    > Due to smart phones, and other things gradually changing, it becomes
                    > less and less common, but if you want people to read your emails, many
                    > experienced people, who probably receive mail from many lists, will
                    > simply ignore it.  Yes, it's easy enough to scroll down and see what the
                    > email is about, but generally, the people most able to help are the ones
                    > who are busiest.

                    Indeed... not saying that I have a $CLUE because I'm modest like that,
                    but honestly, I have too much stuff to do during the day to try to
                    decipher poorly formatted e-mail. My general rules are:

                    If it's in HTML and full of obnoxious images and/or poorly written
                    markup, or if I see any markup at all, skipped.
                    If it's jumbled and I can't understand quickly what's being said, skipped.
                    If it's not in proper English (e.g. written in LOLWTFBBQ TXT SPK U NO), skipped.

                    That's not being mean, it's just that having to read through that
                    stuff costs me time, and my time is worth a certain dollar amount that
                    no one here is paying for.

                    That being said, I DO try when i have time to help out with posts that
                    are not correctly formatted, but these days, I have less time to do
                    that.. and I'm surprised Godwin had any time at all to answer here...
                    I thought they kept him chained in the dungeon with only bread, water
                    and a keyboard and monitor... :-)

                    The best explanation I heard about post formatting is this...

                    If I were to come into the MIDDLE of a conversation, in order for me
                    to read it if everyone top posts, I have to scroll down, locate the
                    beginning, read the first post top to bottom, scroll up, read the next
                    post top to bottom, scroll up, read the next post top to bottom, and
                    that just takes even more time, is not intuitive etc... it also makes
                    searching the archives a pain in the rear.

                    Moving on... just for a moment:
                    "
                    Michael Sullivan said:
                    > The way I heard it (and this was years ago) you're actually paying for
                    > support services from the developers. Today almost (I say 'almost' only
                    > because I don't know every single distro out there) every distrobution
                    > has a free support base in the form of a forum or a mailing list. HTH

                    That's it mostly, but you have to keep in mind that "free support
                    base" does not mean that ANYONE who actually works on a given distro
                    is there reading or responding. The Ubuntu forums and mailing lists
                    are really good about that, and maybe Debian ones are too (I've never
                    been on any Debian forums or lists, so can't say one way or the
                    other). The Fedora forums are a mess, or were the last time I was
                    there...

                    So, as with anything, you get what you pay for. Though there are VERY
                    good people who help out in the free support arenas, you have to
                    remember that they are doing so out of the goodness of their heart.
                    We aren't getting paid to answer posts on Linux@ or Linux_NEWBIES@ or
                    anywhere else. Hell, I don't even get paid to answer posts on the
                    Ubuntu lists even though I work for Canonical. My job does not
                    involve must community involvement... but I still do, taking my own
                    time, partly as a diversion from development or testing, and partly
                    because I enjoy it and think it's the right thing to do.

                    BUT, when you pay, as Michael said, you are really paying for the
                    developer or paid support personnel and their time... and you are
                    paying to have your answer NOW, as opposed to getting it after two
                    weeks of discussion and off topic posts.

                    Finally, Bill said:
                    > I have not paid for a single distro yet. I am now running Ubuntu 64 bit and love it. I could be wrong but when Linus
                    > Torvalds designed the Linux kernel I thought his intent was to keep it free. Bill

                    You are both correct and incorrect, as I understand it at least. At
                    the time, Linus wrote the first kernel because he wanted to be able to
                    write and compile Unix programs on x86 based hardware because he
                    couldn't afford to buy the hardware needed to run Unix on.

                    It ended up being free, and he really didn't even imagine that it
                    would become what it is today. You should check out two books that
                    sum all this up...

                    ESR wrote The Cathedral and the Bazaar which, while being a little
                    ranty from time to time, does a pretty good job of explaining the
                    difference between Proprietary and Open Source development.
                    http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/ if you want to read it for free, or
                    you can buy copies in print.

                    Also, Linus wrote "Just for Fun: The Story of an Accidental
                    Revolutionary" http://www.amazon.com/Just-Fun-Story-Accidental-Revolutionary/dp/0066620732
                    that explains a lot about the early days, why he wrote the kernel in
                    the first place, and a lot of other stuff... it was a pretty good read
                    too, and I really don't get into biographies very much... but I
                    enjoyed it.

                    That's enough, now I need to get through the weekend's e-mail and get
                    back to bug tracking...

                    Cheers
                    Jeff
                  • Scott
                    ... They should be a bit better now, I am no longer one of the mods. I do know what you mean. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2
                    Message 9 of 15 , Apr 12 11:35 AM
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                      On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:18:50AM -0400, J wrote:
                      > No, I'm not gonna top post ;-)

                      >
                      > is there reading or responding. The Ubuntu forums and mailing lists
                      > are really good about that, and maybe Debian ones are too (I've never
                      > been on any Debian forums or lists, so can't say one way or the
                      > other). The Fedora forums are a mess, or were the last time I was
                      > there...
                      >

                      They should be a bit better now, I am no longer one of the mods.
                      I do know what you mean.


                      --
                      Scott Robbins
                      PGP keyID EB3467D6
                      ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 )
                      gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6


                      Cordelia: What's going on? Oh god, is the world ending? I have to
                      research a paper on Bosnia for tomorrow, but if the world's ending,
                      I'm not gonna bother.
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