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Low frame rate on games.

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  • John Morgan
    When I was running Windows XP on this computer, games such as Nexuiz ran fine. Java/web based games like Runescape also worked fine in High Detail using
    Message 1 of 11 , Feb 17, 2009
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      When I was running Windows XP on this computer, games such as Nexuiz
      ran fine. Java/web based games like Runescape also worked fine in
      High Detail using Firefox. I recently changed from Windows XP to
      Kubuntu 8.10. Nexuiz and other games' frame rate is now so low even
      with the lowest graphic options it is unplayable. Runescape keeps
      hesitating every second or two, rendering playing on High Detail
      impossible. Any ideas would be appreciated.

      Hardware:
      1Gb of DDR memory.
      Athlon 64 3000+
      Geforce FX 5500

      Software:
      Firefox 3
      Current version of Java
      Kubuntu 8.10 32 bit with KDE 4.x (unsure of exact subversion)
      Nvidia's driver version 173.14.12

      The system has all installed packages updated to the latest version by
      the package manager (I think it is Adept).

      Per Nvidia's site, that's the most recent driver for my card. The
      most recent version, 180.x, won't support my card. The driver is
      enabled and is the restricted (non-GNU license) driver. The monitor
      is properly identified and is shown to support up to 1280x1024.
      Currently the resolution is set to 1024x768.
    • Ajay
      ... Have you check ubuntu / kbuntu forms for this issue? They are usually very good with such things. Did you run glxgears to find native frame rates? - Is the
      Message 2 of 11 , Feb 17, 2009
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        On Feb 17, 2009, at 7:22 PM, John Morgan wrote:

        > When I was running Windows XP on this computer, games such as Nexuiz
        > ran fine. Java/web based games like Runescape also worked fine in
        > High Detail using Firefox. I recently changed from Windows XP to
        > Kubuntu 8.10. Nexuiz and other games' frame rate is now so low even
        > with the lowest graphic options it is unplayable. Runescape keeps
        > hesitating every second or two, rendering playing on High Detail
        > impossible. Any ideas would be appreciated.
        >
        > Hardware:
        > 1Gb of DDR memory.
        > Athlon 64 3000+
        > Geforce FX 5500
        >
        > Software:
        > Firefox 3
        > Current version of Java
        > Kubuntu 8.10 32 bit with KDE 4.x (unsure of exact subversion)
        > Nvidia's driver version 173.14.12
        >
        > The system has all installed packages updated to the latest version by
        > the package manager (I think it is Adept).
        >
        > Per Nvidia's site, that's the most recent driver for my card. The
        > most recent version, 180.x, won't support my card. The driver is
        > enabled and is the restricted (non-GNU license) driver. The monitor
        > is properly identified and is shown to support up to 1280x1024.
        > Currently the resolution is set to 1024x768.


        Have you check ubuntu / kbuntu forms for this issue? They are usually
        very good with such things.

        Did you run glxgears to find native frame rates? - Is the nvidia
        driver install / activated correctly?

        Ajay Gautam
        http://www.ajaygautam.com/
      • Jye Nigma
        ... From: John Morgan To: Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:22 PM Subject: [linux] Low frame rate on games. ...
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 17, 2009
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          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "John Morgan" <frito123@...>
          To: <linux@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 8:22 PM
          Subject: [linux] Low frame rate on games.


          > When I was running Windows XP on this computer, games such as Nexuiz
          > ran fine. Java/web based games like Runescape also worked fine in
          > High Detail using Firefox. I recently changed from Windows XP to
          > Kubuntu 8.10. Nexuiz and other games' frame rate is now so low even
          > with the lowest graphic options it is unplayable. Runescape keeps
          > hesitating every second or two, rendering playing on High Detail
          > impossible. Any ideas would be appreciated.
          >
          > Hardware:
          > 1Gb of DDR memory.
          > Athlon 64 3000+
          > Geforce FX 5500
          >
          > Software:
          > Firefox 3
          > Current version of Java
          > Kubuntu 8.10 32 bit with KDE 4.x (unsure of exact subversion)
          > Nvidia's driver version 173.14.12
          >
          > The system has all installed packages updated to the latest version by
          > the package manager (I think it is Adept).
          >
          > Per Nvidia's site, that's the most recent driver for my card. The
          > most recent version, 180.x, won't support my card. The driver is
          > enabled and is the restricted (non-GNU license) driver. The monitor
          > is properly identified and is shown to support up to 1280x1024.
          > Currently the resolution is set to 1024x768.
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          On a side note, how gaming on the Linux side of things? I know a lot of
          people use linux as game servers but as far as games (high quality) being
          made for linux is there a wide variety or is linux gaming in its infancy?

          Jye
        • Thad Floryan
          ... Interesting question. Most of the games appear to be board or board-like games, and some do have animation. penguin-command (a great clone of the Missile
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 17, 2009
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            --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "Jye Nigma" <jyesluv@...> wrote:
            > [...]
            > On a side note, how gaming on the Linux side of things? I know a lot
            > of people use linux as game servers but as far as games (high quality)
            > being made for linux is there a wide variety or is linux gaming in its
            > infancy?

            Interesting question. Most of the games appear to be board or board-like
            games, and some do have animation. penguin-command (a great clone of the
            Missile Command arcade game) is fun.

            But I haven't seen, for example, Half Life and similar games yet for
            Linux, and those have been available (for Windows) for years now.

            The key to the answer of game infancy or not can be seen by what graphic
            cards are *fully* supported. I have some cards with 1GB video RAM that
            are just about adequate for some of the better games for Windows, but
            even they fail (frame rate and shading, texture, etc.) with newer games.

            One needs (at a minimum) a GeForce 9800GT-based card (from EVGA, BFG,
            PNY, etc.) to get acceptable frame and effect rates. Visit Fry's or
            NewEgg's web sites and note the real gaming cards' prices start around
            US$250 and go up to over US$3,000. That's just for the video card.
            Then there's the 1000 Watt power supply and a multi-core CPU running
            up to, perhaps, 4GHz -- that's what the hardcore gamers use.

            Just now looking at Steam (an online game distributor), the specs for
            a minimum system for some popular games reads like this:

            OS: Windows® XP/Windows Vista® (only)
            Processor: 2.0 GHz or faster single-core (2.2 GHz for Windows Vista)
            or any dual-core Intel® or AMD® (2.5 GHz or faster recommended)
            Memory: 512 MB Windows XP (1024 MB recommended)/1 GB Windows Vista
            (1.5 GB recommended)
            Graphics: 128 MB DirectX® 9.0c–compatible (256 MB DirectX 9.0c
            compatible recommended)
            DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c
            Hard Drive: 8 GB Free Space

            Supported Video Cards:
            NVIDIA® GeForce® 6/7/8/9/X200 series, ATI® 9600-9800, X300-X850,
            X1050/X1300/X1550-X1950/HD 2400-4800 series
          • Thad Floryan
            ... The article I posted earlier today re: graphics cards reminded me of an email I recently received from EVGA. If you ve heard of SETI@home (worldwide
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 17, 2009
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              --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "Jye Nigma" <jyesluv@...> wrote:
              > [...]
              > On a side note, how gaming on the Linux side of things? I know a lot
              > of people use linux as game servers but as far as games (high quality)
              > being made for linux is there a wide variety or is linux gaming in its
              > infancy?

              The article I posted earlier today re: graphics cards reminded me of an
              email I recently received from EVGA.

              If you've heard of SETI@home (worldwide collaboration of computers for
              distributed processing), there's another project, Folding, that's been
              ongoing for about 10 years now. They've just exceeded 5 PetaFLOPS and
              the "processors" that are pushing the envelope are graphics cards, not
              the main CPU(s) in a system. See a spec summary at this article's end.

              The project's goal: to understand protein folding, misfolding, and
              related diseases. The home page is:

              <http://folding.stanford.edu/>

              The 5 PetaFLOPS achievement:

              <http://fah-web.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=osstats>

              and you'll note that Linux is in the running, achieving 43 TeraFLOPS,
              which is nothing to sneeze at when one considers:

              1 MegaFLOPS = 1,000,000 floating point operations per second (FLOPS)
              1 GigaFLOPS = 1,000,000,000 FLOPS
              1 TeraFLOPS = 1,000,000,000,000 FLOPS
              1 PetaFLOPS = 1,000,000,000,000,000 FLOPS

              I can't even imagine numbers that large. 5 PetaFLOPS makes the Folding
              project's distributed "computer" the world's fastest supercomputer.

              The Linux clients are available for download here:

              <http://folding.stanford.edu/English/Guide>

              Note one thing: like SETI@Home, the client software is NOT released
              in source form. The rationale for that is in the FAQ at:

              <http://folding.stanford.edu/English/FAQ-OpenSource>

              If your system(s) is/are sitting around idle, the Folding project seems
              a useful use of that idle time.

              Here's typical specs for higher-end GPU cards, this one is for the
              nVidia x295:

              Processor Cores: 480 ( 240 per GPU )
              Graphics Clock: 576 MHz
              Processor Clock: 1242 MHz
              Texture Fill Rate: 92.2 billion/sec
              Memory Clock: 999 MHz
              Standard Memory Config: 1792 MB GDDR3 ( 896MB per GPU )
              Memory Interface Width: 896-bit ( 448-bit per GPU )
              Memory Bandwidth: 223.8 GB/sec

              That memory bandwidth spec really astonishes me. :-)
            • Thad Floryan
              ... Slight mod to the above recommendation (9800GT) and something else regarding Linux. First, I just picked up a 9600GT-based card for under US$100 and it
              Message 6 of 11 , Mar 22, 2009
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                --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "Thad Floryan" <thad@...> wrote:
                > [...]
                > One needs (at a minimum) a GeForce 9800GT-based card (from EVGA, BFG,
                > PNY, etc.) to get acceptable frame and effect rates. Visit Fry's or
                > NewEgg's web sites and note the real gaming cards' prices start around
                > US$250 and go up to over US$3,000. That's just for the video card.
                > Then there's the 1000 Watt power supply and a multi-core CPU running
                > up to, perhaps, 4GHz -- that's what the hardcore gamers use.
                > [...]

                Slight mod to the above recommendation (9800GT) and something else
                regarding Linux.

                First, I just picked up a 9600GT-based card for under US$100 and it
                works well (getting 80 - 120 frames/second depending on the game). It
                does require a hefty power supply with a PCIe-12V cable (or two extra
                +5/+12 Molex connectors via a Y-cable). I've been researching power
                supplies on and off for awhile and finally settled on Antec EarthWatts
                PSUs that are a plug'n'play replacement for the pathetic PSUs that
                accompany most "name brand" (HP/Compaq, Dell, Acer, etc.) desktops.

                The PSU suitable for a 9600 or 9800 GPU card is the Antec EA-430D
                which provides up to 430 Watts. Amazingly, it actually consumes less
                power than the stock 250 Watt PSU in HP/Compaq systems. It also
                provides the correct 24-pin motherboard power connections for current
                ATX motherboards; HP/Compaq slaps in junker PSUs with only 20-pins.

                It looks like the 9800GT-based cards are the last that will fit in
                "normal" desktops; everything beyond them consumes two or more slots
                and provide little clearance for, say, other PCIe-1x or PCI cards.

                Which brings me to the second point, the US$3,000 video card. I took
                a look at it today in the store. Whew, it's big. You can see Fry's ad
                for it here:

                <http://shop1.frys.com/product/5831413>
                PNY Quadro FX 5800 4GB PCI-Express Workstation Video Card

                It has 240 processor cores, and requires a 750 Watt PSU, more if two
                or three of them are ganged ("SLI") together.

                So why am I mentioning this? It works with Linux and Solaris per the
                ad and other info I found!

                US$3,000 is w-a-y too expensive for my tastes, but if a card like that
                has been tested with Linux, it begs the question: "Why aren't there
                *real* video games being developed for Linux?".

                I don't have the answer to that question. And I like games. :-)
              • Thad Floryan
                ... Two things. First, see this: Second, the latest driver for Linux is 173.14.16 per: The GeForce FX series
                Message 7 of 11 , Mar 22, 2009
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                  --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "John Morgan" <frito123@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > When I was running Windows XP on this computer, games such as Nexuiz
                  > ran fine. Java/web based games like Runescape also worked fine in
                  > High Detail using Firefox. I recently changed from Windows XP to
                  > Kubuntu 8.10. Nexuiz and other games' frame rate is now so low even
                  > with the lowest graphic options it is unplayable. Runescape keeps
                  > hesitating every second or two, rendering playing on High Detail
                  > impossible. Any ideas would be appreciated.
                  >
                  > Hardware:
                  > 1Gb of DDR memory.
                  > Athlon 64 3000+
                  > Geforce FX 5500
                  >
                  > Software:
                  > Firefox 3
                  > Current version of Java
                  > Kubuntu 8.10 32 bit with KDE 4.x (unsure of exact subversion)
                  > Nvidia's driver version 173.14.12
                  >
                  > The system has all installed packages updated to the latest version by
                  > the package manager (I think it is Adept).
                  >
                  > Per Nvidia's site, that's the most recent driver for my card. The
                  > most recent version, 180.x, won't support my card.

                  Two things.

                  First, see this: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_FX_Series>

                  Second, the latest driver for Linux is 173.14.16 per:

                  " The GeForce FX series is no longer supported [20] by the binary
                  " NVidia drivers as of version 177.80. Owners of GeForce FX hardware
                  " now have to use the legacy drivers. The last update which works
                  " with Linux kernel 2.6.28 is a beta version called 173.14.16.

                  Not sure how to get that driver, but that's the one you want.
                • John O'Donnell
                  ... There WAS a company that porrted over MANY of the current popular titles at the time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_Software
                  Message 8 of 11 , Mar 23, 2009
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                    On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Thad Floryan <thad@...> wrote:
                    > US$3,000 is w-a-y too expensive for my tastes, but if a card like that
                    > has been tested with Linux, it begs the question: "Why aren't there
                    > *real* video games being developed for Linux?".
                    >
                    > I don't have the answer to that question. And I like games. :-)

                    There WAS a company that porrted over MANY of the current popular
                    titles at the time.
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_Software
                    http://lokigames.com/products/
                    Much of their work is still in use in installers and ports today.

                    The last game I purchased was Doom 3. It was a great game in looks
                    and game play. I have loved the Unreal Tournament series on Linux. I
                    wish there was a native World of Warcraft port as that is my latest
                    mainstay on Crossover Games version of Wine.

                    Dunno what the future holds.

                    Driver support is much better than it was back when Loki was in play,
                    but we need native ports. Cedega / Crossover / Wine are frustrating
                    answers.

                    Johnny O
                  • Thad Floryan
                    ... Great info; thanks! ... Agreed. But guess what I just found a few minutes ago:
                    Message 9 of 11 , Mar 23, 2009
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                      --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "John O'Donnell" <juanisan@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Thad Floryan <thad@...> wrote:
                      > > US$3,000 is w-a-y too expensive for my tastes, but if a card like
                      > > that has been tested with Linux, it begs the question: "Why aren't
                      > > there *real* video games being developed for Linux?".
                      > >
                      > > I don't have the answer to that question. And I like games. :-)
                      >
                      > There WAS a company that porrted over MANY of the current popular
                      > titles at the time.
                      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_Software
                      > http://lokigames.com/products/
                      > Much of their work is still in use in installers and ports today.

                      Great info; thanks!

                      >
                      > The last game I purchased was Doom 3. It was a great game in looks
                      > and game play. I have loved the Unreal Tournament series on Linux. I
                      > wish there was a native World of Warcraft port as that is my latest
                      > mainstay on Crossover Games version of Wine.
                      >
                      > Dunno what the future holds.
                      >
                      > Driver support is much better than it was back when Loki was in play,
                      > but we need native ports. Cedega / Crossover / Wine are frustrating
                      > answers.

                      Agreed.

                      But guess what I just found a few minutes ago:

                      <http://www.linux-gamers.net/modules/wiwimod/index.php?page=HOWTO%20Steam>

                      :-)

                      For those who don't know, Steam is arguably *THE* game repository pn
                      the 'Net. Game purchases are made online and the package is simply
                      downloaded; note that some game packages exceed 7GB so one will need a
                      fast connection unless you enjoy watching grass grow or paint dry. :-)

                      FWIW, linux-gamers.net is in Germany. But it looks like the Steam
                      installer and Half-Life, etc work under that under Wine.

                      Running native under Linux would be ideal, but if this really works,
                      it's a start. I'm going to test this out this week (I have about 40
                      or so "Steam" games).

                      That ref to linux-gamers.net was the first Google hit using the search
                      "Steam games work on Linux". There are many other "hits", too.

                      Here's also a brief comment regarding Valve porting games to Linux:

                      <http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjA1NQ>

                      Keeping fingers crossed and hoping the Linux drivers support video
                      cards with "reasonable" frame rates, shading, etc.
                    • Jye Nigma
                      ... From: John O Donnell To: Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [linux] Re: Low frame rate on
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 1, 2009
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                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "John O'Donnell" <juanisan@...>
                        To: <linux@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 10:25 AM
                        Subject: Re: [linux] Re: Low frame rate on games.


                        > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Thad Floryan <thad@...> wrote:
                        >> US$3,000 is w-a-y too expensive for my tastes, but if a card like that
                        >> has been tested with Linux, it begs the question: "Why aren't there
                        >> *real* video games being developed for Linux?".
                        >>
                        >> I don't have the answer to that question. And I like games. :-)
                        >
                        > There WAS a company that porrted over MANY of the current popular
                        > titles at the time.
                        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loki_Software
                        > http://lokigames.com/products/
                        > Much of their work is still in use in installers and ports today.
                        >
                        > The last game I purchased was Doom 3. It was a great game in looks
                        > and game play. I have loved the Unreal Tournament series on Linux. I
                        > wish there was a native World of Warcraft port as that is my latest
                        > mainstay on Crossover Games version of Wine.
                        >
                        > Dunno what the future holds.
                        >
                        > Driver support is much better than it was back when Loki was in play,
                        > but we need native ports. Cedega / Crossover / Wine are frustrating
                        > answers.
                        >
                        > Johnny O
                        ------------------------------------
                        never know, maybe a company will start up and strike some type of deal with
                        a graphics card vendor to produce Linux ready video cards. I would imagine
                        that if there were enough buzz around Linux and mainstream games that it
                        would get someone's attention. Maybe in the future when you buy a game it'll
                        have installation for MAC, Windows and Linux.

                        Jye
                      • Thad Floryan
                        ... Wishful thinking. :-) New games are constantly pushing the envelope. The latest video cards are now available with 2GB GDDR3 memory, 240 processing cores,
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 1, 2009
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                          --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, "Jye Nigma" <jyesluv@...> wrote:
                          > [...]
                          > never know, maybe a company will start up and strike some type of deal
                          > with a graphics card vendor to produce Linux ready video cards. I
                          > would imagine that if there were enough buzz around Linux and
                          > mainstream games that it would get someone's attention. Maybe in the
                          > future when you buy a game it'll have installation for MAC, Windows
                          > and Linux.

                          Wishful thinking. :-)

                          New games are constantly pushing the envelope. The latest video cards
                          are now available with 2GB GDDR3 memory, 240 processing cores, memory
                          bandwidth of 152 GB/Sec, etc.

                          I get email from the major video card mfrs (EVGA, PNY, BFG, etc.) weekly
                          and they're all pushing upgrade plans. Seems any given video card is
                          obsolete about 2 to 3 weeks after they first hit the streets. :-)

                          We're not talking Hangman or even penguin-attack here, we're talking
                          games that most video cards couldn't display 1 frame/second and thus
                          render the game unplayable. Glance at some of the games here (Steam
                          is an online supplier of most games and all the hottest):

                          <http://store.steampowered.com/>

                          A game like LOST PLANET: EXTREME CONDITION displays about 1 frame per
                          second on most systems. I get it up to 70 FPS with an NVIDIA 9800GT
                          and any dual-/quad-core CPU 2.5 GHz or faster, and that's the largest
                          card I can put in any of my systems and, even then, it's technically
                          obsolete by today's standards. Some of the new cards require custom
                          motherboards so three cards' GPUs can be used simultaneously; that's
                          for the hardcore gamers.

                          I get my "game kicks" out of the Ghost Recon, Half-Life, Lost Planet,
                          Opposing Force, Peggle, Portal, Pinball and Team Fortress series.

                          And, of course, penguin-attack on my Linux systems. :-)
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