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migrating from windoze

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  • ozarkbunnyboy
    I want to install Linux on a computer that is now running Win2kPro. I m wondering if I ll get decent performance with this machine: 224 megahertz Cyrix MII 64
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 4, 2004
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      I want to install Linux on a computer that is now running Win2kPro.

      I'm wondering if I'll get decent performance with this machine:

      224 megahertz Cyrix MII
      64 kilobyte primary memory cache
      512 kilobyte secondary memory cache

      WDC WD64AA Hard drive (6.45 GB)

      Board: SiS-5598-W877F v1.03
      Bus Clock: 75 megahertz
      BIOS: Award Software International, Inc. 4.51 PG 06/25/98

      62 Megabytes Installed Memory

      Broadxent V.92 PCI DI3631-1 [Modem]
      RAS Async Adapter

      SiS 5598/6326 [Display adapter]
      Default Monitor

      ES1869 Control Interface (WDM)
      ES1869 Plug and Play AudioDrive (WDM)
      ---------------------------------------------------

      I'm leaning toward Fedora right now. Do I have enough RAM, etc. for it
      to run well? Will I be able to find drivers for my modem and other
      devices?

      Any pointers or suggestions appreciated,
      Bunny
    • ozarkbunnyboy
      Oh BTW that s actually a 300 MHz processor... Belarc benchmarked it a little low.
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 4, 2004
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        Oh BTW that's actually a 300 MHz processor... Belarc benchmarked it a
        little low.
      • bishop
        ... In my opinion forget the majors distributions, (red hat, mandrake, suse, etc). Actually what you are trying to stay away from is the latest kde or gnome.
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 4, 2004
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          ozarkbunnyboy wrote:
          >
          > Oh BTW that's actually a 300 MHz processor... Belarc benchmarked it a
          > little low.
          >

          In my opinion forget the "majors" distributions, (red hat, mandrake,
          suse, etc). Actually what you are trying to stay away from is the latest
          kde or gnome.

          I have a 300mhz in my living room that only play mp3s.

          Have a go at the lighter distro; look for damm samll linux, feather
          linux, or vector.

          One thing is certain; linux will not make a 300 mhz computer into a
          corporate server.

          My personnal home server is an old 200mhz and i find it a bit slow.

          --bishop
        • ozarkbunnyboy
          ... [snip] ... You re saying they are resource hogs? ... What about ease of installation for a linux newbie on those? Will they still include a graphical
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 5, 2004
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            --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, bishop <bishop@g...> wrote:

            > ozarkbunnyboy wrote:
            > >
            > > Oh BTW that's actually a 300 MHz processor...
            [snip]
            > Actually what you are trying to stay away from is the latest
            > kde or gnome.

            You're saying they are resource hogs?

            > Have a go at the lighter distro; look for damm samll linux, feather
            > linux, or vector.

            What about ease of installation for a linux newbie on those? Will
            they still include a graphical desktop? Are those distros free?

            > One thing is certain; linux will not make a 300 mhz computer into a
            > corporate server.

            Yeah, I wasn't thinking in those terms. I just want a home
            workstation, no server, just internet access through dial-up and
            running some accounting and word-processing aps, and maybe some imaging.
          • Michael Kjorling
            ... Hash: SHA1 ... I would not call them resource hogs , but as computers have become more powerful, more features are included that all require computing
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 5, 2004
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              On 2004-11-05 13:34 -0000, ozarkbunnyboy@... wrote:
              >> Actually what you are trying to stay away from is the latest
              >> kde or gnome.
              >
              > You're saying they are resource hogs?

              I would not call them "resource hogs", but as computers have become
              more powerful, more features are included that all require computing
              power. Most of those /can/ be turned off, but some are worse.


              >> Have a go at the lighter distro; look for damm samll linux, feather
              >> linux, or vector.
              >
              > What about ease of installation for a linux newbie on those? Will
              > they still include a graphical desktop? Are those distros free?

              I do not know about the ones listed, but one distribution that springs
              to mind for me is Slackware. It is relatively easy to install (easy to
              very easy for the seasoned Linux/UNIX user, and still reasonably easy
              on the newcomer), has somewhat decent package management, and comes
              with most of everything you might want, except perhaps for a bundled
              OpenOffice.org in the standard installation. Traditionally Slackware
              has been the "distribution for the nerds", but not so any more, really
              - - even though the installation program is still completely text based.
              (And frankly, at least I prefer it that way.)

              SuSE is the only publicly available Linux distribution that I know of
              which is not available in full for free download as ISO CD or floppy
              disk images, and they all use mostly the same software (the vast
              majority of which is released under the GNU GPL). So the answer really
              depends on whether you mean free (as in free beer) or Free (as in Free
              Software).


              >> One thing is certain; linux will not make a 300 mhz computer into a
              >> corporate server.
              >
              > Yeah, I wasn't thinking in those terms. I just want a home
              > workstation, no server, just internet access through dial-up and
              > running some accounting and word-processing aps, and maybe some imaging.

              First of all I fail to see why a 300 MHz system cannot function as a
              corporate server... I wouldn't run big databases on such a computer,
              but for file sharing, mail, HTTP (with static content, especially) or
              DNS, it would be perfectly sufficient up to at least a few hundred
              users, as long as they don't *all* check their mail at once. The real
              showstopper would probably be the amount of RAM, not the CPU's working
              frequency.

              That said, you may want to take a look at Slackware plus
              OpenOffice.org. If you don't need the more advanced features, look
              into AbiWord/Gnumeric or the KOffice equivalents (word processing and
              spreadsheet, along with any other specific needs you may have). Yes,
              you can install them without installing and running all of GNOME or
              KDE - I use Eye of Gnome (eog) to display images over the network,
              running on a computer that doesn't even have a working X11
              installation. Just a few libraries.

              - --
              Michael Kjörling, michael@... - http://michael.kjorling.com/
              OpenPGP Fingerprint: 3723 9372 c245 d6a8 18a6 36ac 758F8749 BDE9ADA6
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            • Ed
              ... Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:51:45 -0000 ... Yes you have enough RAM to do most things. It depends what you want to do. I reckon that you should be
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 5, 2004
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                On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:51:45 -0000
                "ozarkbunnyboy" <ozarkbunnyboy@...> wrote:

                > Broadxent V.92 PCI DI3631-1 [Modem]

                > I'm leaning toward Fedora right now. Do I have enough RAM, etc. for it

                Yes you have enough RAM to do most things. It depends what you want to
                do. I reckon that you should be able to run a descent server with that
                amount of RAM.

                > to run well? Will I be able to find drivers for my modem

                I doubt it.

                > and other devices?

                Yes, but get used to kernel compiles:

                cd /usr/src
                tar jxvf ./linux-2.4.27.tar.bz2
                cd linux-2.4.27
                make menuconfig
                make dep modules modules_install bzlilo

                or

                make-kpkg kernel_image

                if you install debian (which is an administration dream, RPM based
                distros are administration nightmares, generally).

                The reason for kernel recompile is that often the support for the device
                you want either requires a kernel patch, or just didn't have the driver
                enabled.

                One other thing is that your modem driver may well exist, but it
                could require a kernel patch in order to use it. Generally, get yourself
                either an ISA modem or external modem. With the external modem you will
                require a transformer (AC adapter) which is a power drain, and you may
                notice your computer room increase in temperature a little. If it's 5v
                or 12v you can run it off the computer's power supply (I have done this
                with my network switch and cable modem, it saves power).

                - --
                Ed. Debian 3. OpenBSD 3.5. Two things came out of berkeley: BSD and
                LSD. Don't think this a coincidence. Can't cross chasm in small jumps
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              • Ed
                ... Hash: SHA1 On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 23:09:07 -0500 ... Excuse me, I have a mail server half that speedd running clamd/spamd on mail for many domains. It
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 5, 2004
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                  On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 23:09:07 -0500
                  bishop <bishop@...> wrote:

                  > One thing is certain; linux will not make a 300 mhz computer into a
                  > corporate server.

                  Excuse me, I have a mail server half that speedd running clamd/spamd on
                  mail for many domains. It processes a message every 3-4 seconds. Its
                  been doing that for the best part of a year, without a lockup.

                  How do you define corporate server? Here in the UK the national power
                  grid use some very old vms systems to run the country's sub stations.
                  There are many BIG concerns which do not upgrade for the FUD of exploits
                  and what-not that could result from an upgrade.

                  - --
                  Ed. Debian 3. OpenBSD 3.5. Two things came out of berkeley: BSD and
                  LSD. Don't think this a coincidence. Can't cross chasm in small jumps
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                • Ed
                  ... Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:34:45 -0000 ... You will get annoyed that your web browser does not perform like IE 6 when browsing some yahoo s page.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 5, 2004
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                    On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:34:45 -0000
                    "ozarkbunnyboy" <ozarkbunnyboy@...> wrote:

                    > Yeah, I wasn't thinking in those terms. I just want a home
                    > workstation, no server, just internet access through dial-up and
                    > running some accounting and word-processing aps, and maybe some
                    > imaging.

                    You will get annoyed that your web browser does not perform like IE 6
                    when browsing some yahoo's page.

                    The closest browser to IE in terms of rendering badly written pages is
                    FireFox, which will probably choke your system (it requires about 10MB
                    of RAM for one tab).

                    Opera may be a little bit better in terms of memory consumption.

                    If you can, try and install with a reiserfs filesystem, I think its
                    pretty good in terms of memory usage. Failing that try XFS.

                    - --
                    Ed. Debian 3. OpenBSD 3.5. Two things came out of berkeley: BSD and
                    LSD. Don't think this a coincidence. Can't cross chasm in small jumps
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                  • ozarkbunnyboy
                    ... 6 ... is ... 10MB ... I ve been trying out the FireFox for Win on the 2kPro platform, and although it is a bit slow, it hasn t choked. Right now I m using
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 5, 2004
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                      --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, Ed <ed@e...> wrote:

                      > On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 13:34:45 -0000
                      > "ozarkbunnyboy" <ozarkbunnyboy@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Yeah, I wasn't thinking in those terms. I just want a home
                      > > workstation, no server, just internet access through dial-up and
                      > > running some accounting and word-processing aps, and maybe some
                      > > imaging.
                      >
                      > You will get annoyed that your web browser does not perform like IE
                      6
                      > when browsing some yahoo's page.
                      >
                      > The closest browser to IE in terms of rendering badly written pages
                      is
                      > FireFox, which will probably choke your system (it requires about
                      10MB
                      > of RAM for one tab).

                      I've been trying out the FireFox for Win on the 2kPro platform, and
                      although it is a bit slow, it hasn't choked. Right now I'm using
                      Mozilla 1.7.3. It's a little slow to launch, but I've had at least
                      five tabs open with no problems. I don't know how relevant this
                      Windows performance is to Linux performance. I'd assumed it would in
                      general be more efficient in Linux.

                      > Opera may be a little bit better in terms of memory consumption.

                      I've used Windows Opera on this machine as well, with great success,
                      but I only have the adware version which I find slightly annoying so I
                      don't use it much.

                      I'm wondering if a RAM upgrade would be worth it. I'd have to check on
                      this weird motherboard, it's got 72-pin SIMMS, but assuming cost was
                      reasonable, would jacking it up to 256 MB improve performance for a
                      300 MHz CPU?

                      >
                      > If you can, try and install with a reiserfs filesystem, I think its
                      > pretty good in terms of memory usage. Failing that try XFS.

                      You lost me there. Would those be options within any distro, or
                      characteristics of certain distros?
                    • bishop
                      ... No not resource hog, more like resource intensive ... ease of installation for a Linux newbie == YES include a graphical desktop? == YES Are those
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 5, 2004
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                        ozarkbunnyboy wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In linux@yahoogroups.com, bishop <bishop@g...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >>ozarkbunnyboy wrote:
                        >>
                        >>>Oh BTW that's actually a 300 MHz processor...
                        >
                        > [snip]
                        >
                        >> Actually what you are trying to stay away from is the latest
                        >>kde or gnome.
                        >
                        >
                        > You're saying they are resource hogs?
                        No not resource hog, more like resource intensive


                        >>Have a go at the lighter distro; look for damm samll linux, feather
                        >>linux, or vector.
                        >
                        >
                        > What about ease of installation for a linux newbie on those? Will
                        > they still include a graphical desktop? Are those distros free?

                        ease of installation for a Linux newbie ==> YES
                        include a graphical desktop? ==> YES
                        Are those distros free ==> YES, donations accepted

                        damm small Linux: is a live cd, debian based, 50 meg iso; can be run
                        entirely from the cd or if you have more than 128 meg ram entirely from
                        ram. It feature a full fledge graphical environment, flux box is the
                        window manager, look there's even icons on your desktop. You install it
                        by following a *simple* script. And I mean simple, 3 or 4 questions
                        about (been over a year I haven't installed it) since it's already
                        running it only need to copy itself to your choice of hard drive.

                        feather Linux : Never played with it but heard a lot of good thing about
                        it e.g. small and fast.

                        vector Linux: based on slackware a bit hackward to install but solid as
                        a rock I believe they also have a live cd
                        "Description: The creators of Vector Linux had a single credo: keep it
                        simple, keep it small and let the end user decide what their operating
                        system is going to be. The SOHO release is geared more toward desktop
                        use than the regular Vector release. The "Live" CD will boot from the CD
                        for use as either a rescue disk or as a chance to evaluate Vector Linux
                        without needing to install it."

                        go there for more info: http://distrowatch.com/

                        >>One thing is certain; linux will not make a 300 mhz computer into a
                        >>corporate server.
                        >
                        >
                        > Yeah, I wasn't thinking in those terms. I just want a home
                        > workstation, no server, just internet access through dial-up and
                        > running some accounting and word-processing aps, and maybe some imaging.
                        >
                      • bishop
                        ... We obliviously don t have the same definition of corporate.... anyway, I have a home server clobbered up with spare parts, a 200 mhz 124 meg of ram it runs
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 5, 2004
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                          Michael Kjorling wrote:
                          > First of all I fail to see why a 300 MHz system cannot function as a
                          > corporate server... I wouldn't run big databases on such a computer,
                          > but for file sharing, mail, HTTP (with static content, especially) or
                          > DNS, it would be perfectly sufficient up to at least a few hundred
                          > users, as long as they don't *all* check their mail at once. The real
                          > showstopper would probably be the amount of RAM, not the CPU's working
                          > frequency.

                          We obliviously don't have the same definition of corporate....
                          anyway, I have a home server clobbered up with spare parts, a 200 mhz
                          124 meg of ram it runs debian kernel 2.6.something; can't remember and
                          too lazy to check, rock solid, of course no gui, the server is in the
                          basement beside the furnace (rock solid as well). Anyway it hold the
                          households mp3's and act a a file server for 3 pcs and one mac.
                          I can tell it lack a bit of punch, specially running php scripts and
                          mysql database (kplaylist jukebox). Or doing searches. but on the CLI it
                          is fine and responsive.

                          --Bishop
                        • bishop
                          ... Well to start, a box capable of doing more than *one* thing without chocking; look mail for a couple of thousand users can be processed on a 484 as long as
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 5, 2004
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                            Ed wrote:
                            >
                            > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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                            >
                            > On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 23:09:07 -0500
                            > bishop <bishop@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >>One thing is certain; linux will not make a 300 mhz computer into a
                            >>corporate server.
                            >
                            >
                            > Excuse me, I have a mail server half that speedd running clamd/spamd on
                            > mail for many domains. It processes a message every 3-4 seconds. Its
                            > been doing that for the best part of a year, without a lockup.
                            >
                            > How do you define corporate server? Here in the UK the national power
                            > grid use some very old vms systems to run the country's sub stations.
                            > There are many BIG concerns which do not upgrade for the FUD of exploits
                            > and what-not that could result from an upgrade.
                            >

                            Well to start, a box capable of doing more than *one* thing without
                            chocking; look mail for a couple of thousand users can be processed on a
                            484 as long as it is *only* doing that.

                            Please note, I'm not talking about web based mail here.
                          • Ed
                            ... Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:34:05 -0500 ... The TCO posts on /. lately show that the hardware upgrade cycle of windows is approximately 2-4 years.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 6, 2004
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                              On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:34:05 -0500
                              bishop <bishop@...> wrote:

                              > We obliviously don't have the same definition of corporate....

                              The TCO posts on /. lately show that the hardware upgrade cycle of
                              windows is approximately 2-4 years. The Linux OS boxes are on average
                              upgraded in hardware every 6 years.

                              Therefore corporate Linux kernel hardware is very feasible at 300mhz.
                              Just don't expect to compile a bloated kernel in 15 mins like I can on
                              my XP 3200+ Barton (512k cache).

                              - --
                              Ed. Debian 3. OpenBSD 3.5. Two things came out of berkeley: BSD and
                              LSD. Don't think this a coincidence. Can't cross chasm in small jumps
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                            • Ed
                              ... Hash: SHA1 On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 01:24:45 -0000 ... You will probably find some swapping has gone on. I remember comparing the memory usage of tabs between
                              Message 14 of 15 , Nov 6, 2004
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                                On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 01:24:45 -0000
                                "ozarkbunnyboy" <ozarkbunnyboy@...> wrote:

                                > I've been trying out the FireFox for Win on the 2kPro platform, and
                                > although it is a bit slow, it hasn't choked. Right now I'm using
                                > Mozilla 1.7.3. It's a little slow to launch, but I've had at least
                                > five tabs open with no problems. I don't know how relevant this
                                > Windows performance is to Linux performance. I'd assumed it would in
                                > general be more efficient in Linux.

                                You will probably find some swapping has gone on. I remember comparing
                                the memory usage of tabs between Phoenix and Mozilla. Phoenix became
                                FireBird, and then became FireFox. I found that the initial footprint of
                                Phoenix was smaller than Mozilla, but the tabs jacked up the memory
                                allocation. Mozilla consumed less memory for each tab.

                                Generally windows has less layers of security so some things are
                                quicker, other things are not. Consider it a lucky dip. I think only
                                Windows 3.1 loads its GUI at the same speed that WindowMaker can load
                                it's. Don't expect KDE to load as quickly as Explorer.

                                > > Opera may be a little bit better in terms of memory consumption.
                                >
                                > I've used Windows Opera on this machine as well, with great success,
                                > but I only have the adware version which I find slightly annoying so I
                                > don't use it much.

                                I find it quite usable, if you don't use it's search bar, thats how it
                                knows what adverts to display.

                                Yes it's a nice browser, they could easily make more money by open
                                sourcing it.

                                > I'm wondering if a RAM upgrade would be worth it. I'd have to check on
                                > this weird motherboard, it's got 72-pin SIMMS, but assuming cost was
                                > reasonable, would jacking it up to 256 MB improve performance for a
                                > 300 MHz CPU?

                                Check first that your motherboard/cpu can address that memory before you
                                go bidding on ebay for it.

                                > > If you can, try and install with a reiserfs filesystem, I think its
                                > > pretty good in terms of memory usage. Failing that try XFS.
                                >
                                > You lost me there. Would those be options within any distro, or
                                > characteristics of certain distros?

                                ReiserFS is a very high performance file system, much like XFS. Ensure
                                your kernel has Reiser set to Yes before you go creating Reiser file
                                systems. The same goes for Ext3 and XFS. Much like forgetting the SCSI
                                support is as module when your / is on /dev/sda1. DOH!

                                - --
                                Ed. Debian 3. OpenBSD 3.5. Two things came out of berkeley: BSD and
                                LSD. Don't think this a coincidence. Can't cross chasm in small jumps
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                              • Ed
                                ... Hash: SHA1 On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:46:24 -0500 ... I ve never used the 484 processor, Ive used family 4 though. The great thing about mail is that the
                                Message 15 of 15 , Nov 6, 2004
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                                  On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:46:24 -0500
                                  bishop <bishop@...> wrote:

                                  > Well to start, a box capable of doing more than *one* thing without
                                  > chocking; look mail for a couple of thousand users can be processed on
                                  > a 484 as long as it is *only* doing that.

                                  I've never used the 484 processor, Ive used family 4 though. The great
                                  thing about mail is that the sending MTA retries 9 out of 10 times if
                                  the mail cannot be delivered, so most boxes are capable of high loads as
                                  the mail gets delivered at another time.

                                  > Please note, I'm not talking about web based mail here.

                                  They have Squirrelmail, but that doesn't get used a great deal.

                                  - --
                                  Ed. Debian 3. OpenBSD 3.5. Two things came out of berkeley: BSD and
                                  LSD. Don't think this a coincidence. Can't cross chasm in small jumps
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