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Re: [linux] Linux is more of BSD or System V?

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  • Hanxue Lee >
    ... Thank you for your replies. Well, I thought most distros share most programs/utilities? Is it not true that most distributions differ on the installation
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 31, 2001
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      On Thursday 25 October 2001 07:00, you wrote:
      > Weeeelllll.... Linux is a bit of a hybrid of both, as you correctly
      > surmised. BUT, how much of one or the other depends on which distro.
      >
      > -=Brian L. Johnson, www.blj8.com=-
      > 9054 links at blj8.com!
      > ---------------------------------
      > For PGP key email to: pgpkey@...
      > For Geekcode email to: geekcode@...
      >
      > On Oct 25, Hanxue Lee tapped one key, than another, then another...
      >
      > >Is Linux closer to the traditional System V or BSD? Which version of the
      > > book should I refer to?
      >
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      Thank you for your replies. Well, I thought most distros share most
      programs/utilities? Is it not true that most distributions differ on the
      installation and package part, since Linux adopted the GNU libraries from the
      very beginning?
      --
      Yours truly,

      Lee Hanxue
      <- -Mandrake 8.0 KMail 1.2 -->
    • Cameron Simpson
      ... [...] ... Broadly, yes. ... Also true. You can expect glibc to be ANSI and POSIX compliant, which is more SysVish than BSDish. The sockets layer is BSDish.
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 31, 2001
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        On Wed, Oct 31, 2001 at 10:52:47PM +0800, Hanxue Lee <Lee Hanxue <hanxue@...> wrote:
        | On Thursday 25 October 2001 07:00, you wrote:
        | > >Is Linux closer to the traditional System V or BSD? Which version of the
        | > > book should I refer to?
        | > Weeeelllll.... Linux is a bit of a hybrid of both, as you correctly
        | > surmised. BUT, how much of one or the other depends on which distro.
        [...]
        | Thank you for your replies. Well, I thought most distros share most
        | programs/utilities?

        Broadly, yes.

        | Is it not true that most distributions differ on the
        | installation and package part, since Linux adopted the GNU libraries from the
        | very beginning?

        Also true.

        You can expect glibc to be ANSI and POSIX compliant, which is more SysVish than BSDish.
        The sockets layer is BSDish.
        --
        Cameron Simpson, DoD#743 cs@... http://www.zip.com.au/~cs/

        People who love sausage and respect the law should never watch either of them
        being made.
      • Calla
        Could anyone tell me how I setup a User, as Admin? -My problem is that when I log in as root I can save, move, copy, etc.. -But when I log in as an ordinary
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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          Could anyone tell me how I setup a User, as Admin?

          -My problem is that when I log in as root I can save, move, copy, etc.. -But
          when I log in as an ordinary user, (created at the install of Redhat7.1), I
          am allowed to do just about nothing (or maybe even.. NOTHING,) that involves
          writing to the harddisk.. -Not very usefull. =)

          I know very little of the Linux/UniX way of handling users, but enough of
          the Mac OSX way, to know, I need a status of admin.

          Hope to hear from ya!
          THX!!

          Calla
        • skylinux
          ... Sorry, but this is the way it works. You as a user should (must) use your home directory, you have full read/write/execute permissions in there. Your home
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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            On Fri, 2 Nov 2001, Calla wrote:

            > when I log in as an ordinary user, (created at the install of Redhat7.1), I
            > am allowed to do just about nothing (or maybe even.. NOTHING,) that involves
            > writing to the harddisk.. -Not very usefull. =)

            Sorry, but this is the way it works. You as a user should (must) use your home
            directory, you have full read/write/execute permissions in there. Your home
            directory is located under /home/USERNAME where USERNAME is your actual
            username. If you need to install a program you switch over to root, install it
            and go back to your regular user account. The reason for doing so is that you
            can't kill your system because you're not allowed to write to any important
            system files. Just save everything in your home directory and you should be
            fine.

            <==============>
            |- Skylinux -|
            <==============>


            /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\
            ( rm -rf /bin/laden )
            \_________________/
            10:10am up 1:34, 2 users, load average: 2.42, 2.51, 2.27
          • Chris
            ... I ve never used RedHat 7.1, but when you were installing your distro you were probably asked to enter the details for a user (I assume you entered the name
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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              Calla wrote:

              > Could anyone tell me how I setup a User, as Admin?
              >
              > -My problem is that when I log in as root I can save, move, copy, etc.. -But
              > when I log in as an ordinary user, (created at the install of Redhat7.1), I
              > am allowed to do just about nothing (or maybe even.. NOTHING,) that involves
              > writing to the harddisk.. -Not very usefull. =)


              I've never used RedHat 7.1, but when you were installing your distro you
              were probably asked to enter the details for a user (I assume you entered
              the name "calla" for simplicity)?

              When you log in as "calla" you have read and write permission on one
              location*: the "home directory" belonging to calla in /home, probably called
              /home/calla. You should log in as this user for the normal "day-to-day"
              things you will do with your computer: playing games, editing text,
              whatever. The files that you use in these applications should be loaded
              from, and saved to, your home directory. So if you are editing a file in
              StarOffice you should save the docuement into /home/calla/ or a subdirectory
              of that location. You shouldn't attempt to save them in subdirectories of
              /usr or the like.

              Or to summarise: when you are logged in as calla you can do anything you
              want to files or directories in /home/calla but you can not write (or
              sometimes even read) files outside that location.

              When you log in as root you have read and write permissions everywhere. This
              does not mean that you should use root more often - the exact oppsite is
              true. In general you should be logged in as calla for 99% of the time: root
              should only ever be used when you need to make a change to a system-wide
              configuration file, or you need to install or remove software. The
              distinction between users and root is made because root is a very dangerous
              level to be logged in at. One simple mistake made as root can render your
              linux system unstable or even unusable (and every admin has done this sooner
              of later) - as such it should be used only when absolutely necessary and
              even then you should think twice before doing anything as root.


              Chris

              * This is not strictly true, but for the moment it is useful to think this
              way. Eventually you will find that some other places outside the home
              directory give users write permission, but you don't need to know about them
              yet.

              --
              .------{ http://www.starforge.co.uk }-----. .--------------------------.
              =[ Explorer2260, Designer and Coder \=\ P: TexMaker, ROACH, site \
              =[___You_will_obey_your_corporate_masters___]==[ Stack: EETmTmTRRSS------ ]
            • Jason Jarrar
              Other people advised you to stay off root, and I agree with them, even if you are perfect, if you leave root logged in and someone walk to your machine for one
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                Other people advised you to stay off root, and I agree with them, even if
                you are perfect, if you leave root logged in and someone walk to your
                machine for one minuet. That machine will ever be secure again unless you
                reinstall it all. now as you are running as yourself you should be able to
                type the 'su' command in an xterm and change the login in that terminal to
                root. just make sure that you mark youyr terminal diffrent or something and
                be careful to exit before leaving your computer. again your root there and
                be extra careful. Once you get more used ot the system you cna make your
                account belong to multilpe group and you can change your primary group to a
                diffrent one that can give you certain access to some things and some
                programs to execute. You can also change the permission on certain files so
                as to allow other users to execute them with the privilage of root. ALl this
                can spill disaster to your system if you make a mistake. SO I guess you
                really should learn more about Linux and its administration before you
                attempt some of this.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Calla [mailto:MyMailinglists@...]
                Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 9:54 AM
                To: linux@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [linux] User/Root permisions..


                Could anyone tell me how I setup a User, as Admin?

                -My problem is that when I log in as root I can save, move, copy, etc.. -But
                when I log in as an ordinary user, (created at the install of Redhat7.1), I
                am allowed to do just about nothing (or maybe even.. NOTHING,) that involves
                writing to the harddisk.. -Not very usefull. =)

                I know very little of the Linux/UniX way of handling users, but enough of
                the Mac OSX way, to know, I need a status of admin.

                Hope to hear from ya!
                THX!!

                Calla


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              • pc4mat@yahoo.com
                i am prety much a knot head when it coomes to Linux one thing [among many] that i like about Mandrake 8.1 is that upon setup, it propts you to make a user and
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                  i am prety much a knot head when it coomes to Linux
                  one thing [among many] that i like about Mandrake 8.1 is that upon
                  setup, it propts you to make a user and later wwhen you are logged in
                  as user and want to use something like linuxconf that needs root
                  privlidages, you get promped for the password, do what you are gonna
                  do, then go back to being the user. very slick

                  BTW- becausse of my own lack of knowledge i couldn't get RH 6.0 to
                  work for me wirth beans. Using Mandrake 8.1 with the KDE iinterface, i
                  can actually do some things ;-)


                  --- In linux@y..., Calla <MyMailinglists@m...> wrote:
                  > Could anyone tell me how I setup a User, as Admin?
                  >
                  > -My problem is that when I log in as root I can save, move, copy,
                  etc.. -But
                  > when I log in as an ordinary user, (created at the install of
                  Redhat7.1), I
                  > am allowed to do just about nothing (or maybe even.. NOTHING,) that
                  involves
                  > writing to the harddisk.. -Not very usefull. =)
                  >
                  > I know very little of the Linux/UniX way of handling users, but
                  enough of
                  > the Mac OSX way, to know, I need a status of admin.
                  >
                  > Hope to hear from ya!
                  > THX!!
                  >
                  > Calla
                • Scott
                  On 00:29 2001/11/03 +0000, linux@yahoogroups.com wrote ... So, you performed the first step in becoming an ace--found an easier way to do something, one that
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                    On 00:29 2001/11/03 +0000, linux@yahoogroups.com wrote
                    >i am prety much a knot head when it coomes to Linux
                    >one thing [among many] that i like about Mandrake 8.1 is that upon
                    >setup, it propts you to make a user and later wwhen you are logged in
                    >as user and want to use something like linuxconf that needs root
                    >privlidages, you get promped for the password, do what you are gonna
                    >do, then go back to being the user. very slick
                    >
                    >BTW- becausse of my own lack of knowledge i couldn't get RH 6.0 to
                    >work for me wirth beans. Using Mandrake 8.1 with the KDE iinterface, i
                    >can actually do some things ;-)


                    So, you performed the first step in becoming an ace--found an easier way to
                    do something, one that worked for you. RH x.0 distros are often a bit
                    weird--after messing with MD for awhile, you might find yourself going on
                    to something more difficult--no need to put yourself down, you took the
                    first step.
                    And, in answer to the post that you answered :)

                    >--- In linux@y..., Calla <MyMailinglists@m...> wrote:
                    > > Could anyone tell me how I setup a User, as Admin?
                    > >
                    > > -My problem is that when I log in as root I can save, move, copy,
                    >etc.. -But
                    > > when I log in as an ordinary user, (created at the install of
                    >Redhat7.1), I
                    > > am allowed to do just about nothing (or maybe even.. NOTHING,) that
                    >involves
                    > > writing to the harddisk.. -Not very usefull. =)
                    > >
                    > > I know very little of the Linux/UniX way of handling users, but
                    >enough of
                    > > the Mac OSX way, to know, I need a status of admin.


                    There's a way that has been around for a long time with Unix. It's the su
                    command. (Win2k has finally realized the intelligence of that and now has
                    a runas command, though it's a pain if you have several partitions on your
                    hard drive.)

                    In general, in the old days, there was a big Unix mainframe and the users
                    just had dumb terminals. (Sigh, how nice that must have been--no, "I didn't
                    do anything, it just stopped working.") Therefore, only Admins had any
                    real privileges.

                    This way, a user can trash their own home directory, but nothing else. You
                    can write to disk--it depends upon what you want to write. You can keep
                    all the files you want in your /home directory, a bunch of htmls, or
                    graphics or whatever. You cannot, however, make changes to various system
                    files. This is generally considered a good thing. :)

                    The nice thing is that if you're going along nicely as user, and suddenly
                    want to install a file, you can change over to root with the su command.

                    One little gotcha on this. Your PATH is still the PATH of the user, who
                    generally doesn't have things like /sbin in his path--therefore you might
                    type a command that you can do as root--for example, shutdown -h now and
                    find you get the answer unknown command. There are two ways around
                    this--one, which I didn't know till Brian posted it a week or so back is to
                    do su - That will get you root's path, etc. The other way which I
                    consider better, (do as I write, not as I do, however--remember, I'm lazy,
                    and I'm also the one who wiped our mail server's entire /var/spool/mail
                    directory by being careless) is to, if you are logged on as user and have
                    temporarily switched to root to do something, is to simply type the whole
                    path to the command. I'm told by some with more knowledge than me that this
                    is a good habit to get into anyway. Therefore, rather than doing the su
                    - shutdown -h now do su and then type the path to shutdown (in this case,
                    at least in RH, /sbin/shutdown -h now)
                    The other nice thing about this is that you begin to learn where the
                    necessary commands are stored.

                    HTH, and sorry it was so long winded, and probably pompous
                    Scott



                    > >
                  • pc4mat@yahoo.com
                    ... it is good to see that i am not the ONLY one who thinks/posts that way :-)
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 3, 2001
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                      --- In linux@y..., Scott <scottro@d...> wrote:
                      > On 00:29 2001/11/03 +0000, linux@y... wrote
                      >...... big snip...............
                      >
                      > HTH, and sorry it was so long winded, and probably pompous
                      > Scott
                      >
                      it is good to see that i am not the ONLY one who thinks/posts that
                      way :-)
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