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Re: [linux-dell-laptops] Dell cancelling Linux on desktop and laptop systems.

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  • Chris Mauricio
    This discussion is in full swing over at SlashDot. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/02/168248&mode=flat I tried to order a laptop with Linux
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 2, 2001
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      This discussion is in full swing over at SlashDot.

      http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/02/168248&mode=flat

      I tried to order a laptop with Linux preinstalled on it. It was lower video
      RAM, smaller screen, less RAM and slower processor than what they offered
      with WinMe /Win2k. Also, IIRC the prices were ~same for the higher powered
      Winboxes. So I ordered the Winme I8K and wiped it and installed RH 7.1

      Less choice, ~same price, no wonder people weren't ordering it.

      C.

      On Thursday 02 August 2001 15:42, Samuele Sangiorgio wrote:
      > I don't understand why I must buy a notebook with WindowsME and
      > MicrosoftWorks (and pay for them) if I'm going to install only Linux on it!
      > Also because under Windows my I8000 is many times slower than under
      > Linux... S.
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: "don" <don@...>
      > To: <linux-dell-laptops@yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:30 PM
      > Subject: [linux-dell-laptops] Dell cancelling Linux on desktop and laptop
      > systems.
      >
      > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0%2C4586%2C5095114%2C00.html
      > >
      > >
      > > I will be sending a letter letting them know that I would have bought
      > > the I8k with linux on it, if it had been available at the time. I
      > > encourage anyone else who cares, to let Dell know that there are
      > > people who want linux. They haven't been very good at letting people
      > > know it was available. (even their own)
      >
      >
      >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------
      > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
      > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl-faq
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    • Jamie Warren
      You guys are lucky. Up here in Canada I couldn t even get a Dell laptop with any Linux installed on it. I had to pay for WinME/2k with MSWorks. As well I would
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 2, 2001
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        You guys are lucky. Up here in Canada I couldn't even get a Dell laptop
        with any Linux installed on it. I had to pay for WinME/2k with MSWorks.
        As well I would not be able to recieve any support unless I left WinME
        on my laptop.

        So what I do? Sized WinMe down to 2 gigs and installed RedHat 7.1. I
        haven't booted into WinMe since. The only support I need is with the
        hardware and not the software, so why should I have to pay for uneeded
        software?


        On 02 Aug 2001 15:44:08 -0700, Chris Mauricio wrote:
        > This discussion is in full swing over at SlashDot.
        >
        > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/02/168248&mode=flat
        >
        > I tried to order a laptop with Linux preinstalled on it. It was lower video
        > RAM, smaller screen, less RAM and slower processor than what they offered
        > with WinMe /Win2k. Also, IIRC the prices were ~same for the higher powered
        > Winboxes. So I ordered the Winme I8K and wiped it and installed RH 7.1
        >
        > Less choice, ~same price, no wonder people weren't ordering it.
        >
        > C.
        >
        > On Thursday 02 August 2001 15:42, Samuele Sangiorgio wrote:
        > > I don't understand why I must buy a notebook with WindowsME and
        > > MicrosoftWorks (and pay for them) if I'm going to install only Linux on it!
        > > Also because under Windows my I8000 is many times slower than under
        > > Linux... S.
        > >
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: "don" <don@...>
        > > To: <linux-dell-laptops@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:30 PM
        > > Subject: [linux-dell-laptops] Dell cancelling Linux on desktop and laptop
        > > systems.
        > >
        > > > http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0%2C4586%2C5095114%2C00.html
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I will be sending a letter letting them know that I would have bought
        > > > the I8k with linux on it, if it had been available at the time. I
        > > > encourage anyone else who cares, to let Dell know that there are
        > > > people who want linux. They haven't been very good at letting people
        > > > know it was available. (even their own)
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --------------------------------------------------------------
        > > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
        > > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl-faq
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • Frank Sfalanga
        Oh, I agree. When I bought mine I struggled with the decision to purchase with Windows ME. I wanted RH Linux but the configurations they offered were with
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 3, 2001
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          Oh, I agree. When I bought mine I struggled with the decision to
          purchase with Windows ME. I wanted RH Linux but the configurations
          they offered were with SXGA panels and I wanted a UXGA. They said
          they wouldn't sell me it with Linux - their engineers hadn't tested
          it yet. I ended up purchasing with Windows ME used FIPS to shrink
          the ME partition up to 2 gig, saved the S2D partition as is, and the
          rest of the 32 meg is now Mandrake 8.0. I never use the ME.

          Dell saying that Linux doesn't sell is stupid. They did everything
          they could to shoot themselves in the foot. They gave the customer
          the choice of crappy hardware with a great OS (Linux) or Great
          hardware with a crappy OS (Windows). The customers made the correct
          decision. The software can be changed much easier than the hardware,
          right?

          I could've bought other hardware from a different manufacturer. To
          be honest with you I bought ME from Dell because even though they
          didn't offer the Linux configuration that I wanted. THEY AT LEAST
          SUPPORTED LINUX ON THEIR HARDWARE! We vote with our wallets, right?

          As far as Eazel failing (as some articles mention) Dell didn't
          deliver the money. Pure and simple. They said they would support
          Eazel but when it came time to deliver the funds they bailed. I like
          Dell but I must say that I'm a little disappointed in their lack of
          backbone.
        • avery@u.washington.edu
          Hi, I see that several people on this list have recently purchased dell laptops with windows, and installed linux themselves. It would be very helpful to know
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 21, 2001
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            Hi,

            I see that several people on this list have recently purchased dell
            laptops with windows, and installed linux themselves. It would be
            very helpful to know the specifications of the laptops (model,
            processsor,memory, etc.) and if there were any problems with the
            installation.

            I'm having the same dilemma over purchasing pre-installed linux
            latitude or purchasing windows laptop and installing linux.
            That is, Dell will offer me the following configuration:

            > >>> Latitude C600:
            > >>> PentiumĀ® III processor, 850MHz with 14.1" TFT Display
            > >>> 256MB SDRAM, 1 DIMM
            > >>> 20GB Hard Drive, 9.5MM
            > >>> Redhat Linux 7.0, English, with BSC Service
            > >>> 24X max/10X min CD-ROM Drive
            > >>> 56K PCMCIA V.90, PSION Cable Modem
            > >>> 3COM 10/100 CardBus LAN NIC, V2.6.5
            > >>> 8 Cell Lithium-Ion Battery.
            > >>> Microsoft PS/2 2-Button Intellimouse with Scroll

            but they refuse to sell me a linux preinstalled laptop with a higher
            processor or more SDRAM, even though the windows versions for
            latitude c600 offer these options (Pentium III processor with 1 GHz,
            and Memory SDRAM 512MB).

            I went so far as to ask if I could separately purchase 256MB SDRAM,
            manufactured by Dell and recommended for Dell Latitude C600,
            [DELL 256MB Module for a Dell Latitude C600 Series System / 144-pin
            SODIMM, SDRAM, PC100 / Manufacturer Part# D58JEV /Dell Part# 802396-1]

            My sales rep wrote: "be advised that Dell probably won't offer
            technical support if you add that other 256MB." Huh? There are no
            warnings listed on the web page
            (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.asp?Sku=802396%2D1)

            Any comments or advice would be most welcome.

            Regarding Dell's business decision to stop offering linux on laptops,
            I must say that, even at the beginning of the summer when Dell
            offered linux laptops online, it was very difficult to find them. I
            had to do a keyword search for linux, follow the suggested links, and
            click on exactly the right buttons to get the linux option. One wrong
            mouseclick, and I got bounced back to the windows only systems. It's
            difficult to sell a product if your customers can't find it!

            Avery

            --- In linux-dell-laptops@y..., Chris Mauricio <cmauricio@s...> wrote:
            > This discussion is in full swing over at SlashDot.
            >
            > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/02/168248&mode=flat
            >
            > I tried to order a laptop with Linux preinstalled on it. It was
            > lower video RAM, smaller screen, less RAM and slower processor than
            > what they offered with WinMe /Win2k. Also, IIRC the prices were
            > ~same for the higher powered Winboxes. So I ordered the Winme I8K
            > and wiped it and installed RH 7.1
            >
            > Less choice, ~same price, no wonder people weren't ordering it.
            >
          • Sunny Dubey
            On Tuesday 21 August 2001 05:24 pm, you wrote: hey, a few things ... Buy your laptop with windows, in fact LEAVE it on your system as well. Yes you will have
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 21, 2001
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              On Tuesday 21 August 2001 05:24 pm, you wrote:

              hey,

              a few things ...

              Buy your laptop with windows, in fact LEAVE it on your system as well. Yes
              you will have to pay Microsoft, and yes all the elite Linux users will call
              you a loser and whatnot, but who cares. By leaving windows2000/ME/xp on it,
              you will not only keep Dell's amazing technical support, but you will forever
              have something that works with just about the rest of the world. Sorry to
              say this, but there is much linux and the world of OSS has to do before you
              can truely kick windows out. I have a little 700 meg partition with win95
              and office97 on it, and lets not even get me started as to how many times
              that little install of windows has saved my life. (yes I do know of WINE,
              and I also know where it does and doesn't work)


              Always install linux YOURSELF. This lets you know exactly what happened, and
              what YOU did, not someone else. (it also lets you personalize, customize,
              tinker with, etc etc)

              Next, buy your Dell system with as LITTLE ram as possible. Dell is a total
              rip off with RAM. Additionally i've noticed that Crucial has cut laptop RAM
              prices buy half. The following link has the type of RAM for your specific
              laptop

              http://www.crucial.com/store/listparts.asp?model=Latitude+C600+Series&x=6&y=17

              hope that helps

              later

              Sunny Dubey

              </rant>

              PS: as for the RAM thing .. you can always buy more ram for your system,
              just be careful when inserting and removing the RAM chips. The tech guy near
              my house doesn't care what I do with my system. I've added RAM, and new hard
              drive, stuck stickers, and drew all over my laptop, and he still doesn't give
              a damn. He still fixes it, no questions asked.

              PPS: As for Dell and Linux ... thats BS ...
              the only reason Dell even bothers with linux is because linux is popular ..
              and dell wants to be popular too. Dell is probably the BIGGEST microsoft
              dick sucker out there. (Excuse my language, I jsut can't think of a better
              term) Dell loves microsoft to the point where it makes people just sick.
            • jsc3@havoc.gtf.org
              ... I agree. I have a couple of gigabytes given to Windows, in fact. I also use VMware, an amazing program. While dual-booting is OK, I prefer to have Linux
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 21, 2001
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                > On Tuesday 21 August 2001 05:24 pm, you wrote:
                >
                > hey,
                >
                > a few things ...
                >
                > Buy your laptop with windows, in fact LEAVE it on your system as well. Yes
                > you will have to pay Microsoft, and yes all the elite Linux users will call
                > you a loser and whatnot, but who cares. By leaving windows2000/ME/xp on it,
                > you will not only keep Dell's amazing technical support, but you will forever
                > have something that works with just about the rest of the world. Sorry to
                > say this, but there is much linux and the world of OSS has to do before you
                > can truely kick windows out. I have a little 700 meg partition with win95
                > and office97 on it, and lets not even get me started as to how many times
                > that little install of windows has saved my life. (yes I do know of WINE,
                > and I also know where it does and doesn't work)

                I agree. I have a couple of gigabytes given to Windows, in fact. I also
                use VMware, an amazing program. While dual-booting is OK, I prefer to
                have Linux available even if I have to run Windows for some task, such
                as checking out some Microsoft Office document sent to me by a business
                associate. While Star Office is OK, it can't always render these
                documents in a useable fashion, and it doesn't know Visio at all.

                > Always install linux YOURSELF. This lets you know exactly what happened, and
                > what YOU did, not someone else. (it also lets you personalize, customize,
                > tinker with, etc etc)

                Redhat and Mandrake seem to be pretty easy to install too.

                > Next, buy your Dell system with as LITTLE ram as possible. Dell is a total
                > rip off with RAM. Additionally i've noticed that Crucial has cut laptop RAM
                > prices buy half. The following link has the type of RAM for your specific
                > laptop

                I agree. I bought my Inspiron 8000 with 64 MB and then took that out
                and put in 512 MB for a fraction of the price Dell wanted for the same
                thing.

                > PS: as for the RAM thing .. you can always buy more ram for your system,
                > just be careful when inserting and removing the RAM chips. The tech guy near
                > my house doesn't care what I do with my system. I've added RAM, and new hard
                > drive, stuck stickers, and drew all over my laptop, and he still doesn't give
                > a damn. He still fixes it, no questions asked.

                Yeah, as long as you don't abuse the thing, Dell should support it.

                > PPS: As for Dell and Linux ... thats BS ...
                > the only reason Dell even bothers with linux is because linux is popular ..
                > and dell wants to be popular too. Dell is probably the BIGGEST microsoft
                > dick sucker out there. (Excuse my language, I jsut can't think of a better
                > term) Dell loves microsoft to the point where it makes people just sick.

                I too feel strongly about this. Dell did not really try to truly support
                Linux on the laptops, in my opinion. I am also annoyed that the version
                of Windows they sent me won't install in my VMware virtual machine. It
                complains about it not being a Dell, and bails. Bullshit. I never run
                more than one VMware session at a time (it eats over 200 MB of RAM when
                I run one copy), so I think I am entitled to run the Dell copy of Windows
                on the system even if I happen to be running Linux too.

                --
                John Cronin
                mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
              • Stephen Lau
                I ve got two Dell laptops: computer #1: Inspiron 8000 Pentium III, 1.0 GHz with 15 UXGA display ATI Rage Mobility M4 - 32 megs of RAM 384 MB SDRAM, 1 256 and
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 21, 2001
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                  I've got two Dell laptops:

                  computer #1:
                  Inspiron 8000
                  Pentium III, 1.0 GHz with 15" UXGA display
                  ATI Rage Mobility M4 - 32 megs of RAM
                  384 MB SDRAM, 1 256 and 1 128 DIMM
                  32 GB IBM-DJSA TravelStar hard drive, 9.5mm
                  Win2000 pre-installed, Progeny Debian Linux 1.0 installed on my own
                  LG DVD-Rom drive
                  ActionTec 56K modem and Intel EtherExpress Pro/100 mini-PCI combo

                  computer #2:
                  Inspiron 8000
                  Pentium III, 1.0 GHz with 15" UXGA display
                  ATI Rage Mobility M4 - 32 megs of RAM
                  256 MB SDRAM, 2 128 meg DIMMs
                  20 GB Hitachi hard drive, 9.5mm
                  WinMe pre-installed, Red Hat 7.1 installed on my own
                  LG DVD-Rom drive
                  3Com 56K modem + 3c509 nic mini-PCI combo
                  Dell TrueMobile 1150 PCMCIA 802.11 wireless ethernet card

                  Ignore what Dell says about the RAM - they can not invalidate your
                  warranty for installing your own RAM... and I wouldn't want to order a
                  pre-installed Linux system anyway. half the fun is installing it
                  yourself. :-)

                  -steve

                  On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 09:24:27PM -0000, avery@... wrote:
                  > Hi,
                  >
                  > I see that several people on this list have recently purchased dell
                  > laptops with windows, and installed linux themselves. It would be
                  > very helpful to know the specifications of the laptops (model,
                  > processsor,memory, etc.) and if there were any problems with the
                  > installation.
                  >
                  > > >>> Latitude C600:
                  > > >>> PentiumĀ® III processor, 850MHz with 14.1" TFT Display
                  > > >>> 256MB SDRAM, 1 DIMM
                  > > >>> 20GB Hard Drive, 9.5MM
                  > > >>> Redhat Linux 7.0, English, with BSC Service
                  > > >>> 24X max/10X min CD-ROM Drive
                  > > >>> 56K PCMCIA V.90, PSION Cable Modem
                  > > >>> 3COM 10/100 CardBus LAN NIC, V2.6.5
                  > > >>> 8 Cell Lithium-Ion Battery.
                  > > >>> Microsoft PS/2 2-Button Intellimouse with Scroll
                  >
                  > but they refuse to sell me a linux preinstalled laptop with a higher
                  > processor or more SDRAM, even though the windows versions for
                  > latitude c600 offer these options (Pentium III processor with 1 GHz,
                  > and Memory SDRAM 512MB).
                  >
                  > I went so far as to ask if I could separately purchase 256MB SDRAM,
                  > manufactured by Dell and recommended for Dell Latitude C600,
                  > [DELL 256MB Module for a Dell Latitude C600 Series System / 144-pin
                  > SODIMM, SDRAM, PC100 / Manufacturer Part# D58JEV /Dell Part# 802396-1]
                  >
                  > My sales rep wrote: "be advised that Dell probably won't offer
                  > technical support if you add that other 256MB." Huh? There are no
                  > warnings listed on the web page
                  > (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.asp?Sku=802396%2D1)
                  >
                  > Any comments or advice would be most welcome.
                  >
                  > Regarding Dell's business decision to stop offering linux on laptops,
                  > I must say that, even at the beginning of the summer when Dell
                  > offered linux laptops online, it was very difficult to find them. I
                  > had to do a keyword search for linux, follow the suggested links, and
                  > click on exactly the right buttons to get the linux option. One wrong
                  > mouseclick, and I got bounced back to the windows only systems. It's
                  > difficult to sell a product if your customers can't find it!
                  >
                  > Avery
                  >
                  > --- In linux-dell-laptops@y..., Chris Mauricio <cmauricio@s...> wrote:
                  > > This discussion is in full swing over at SlashDot.
                  > >
                  > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/02/168248&mode=flat
                  > >
                  > > I tried to order a laptop with Linux preinstalled on it. It was
                  > > lower video RAM, smaller screen, less RAM and slower processor than
                  > > what they offered with WinMe /Win2k. Also, IIRC the prices were
                  > > ~same for the higher powered Winboxes. So I ordered the Winme I8K
                  > > and wiped it and installed RH 7.1
                  > >
                  > > Less choice, ~same price, no wonder people weren't ordering it.
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
                  > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl-faq
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >

                  --
                  stephen lau :: [slau@...] :: www.whacked.net :: ucsd/cse grad student
                  gpg key id: 0x09E5CD21 via keyservers, or on my website
                • Stephen Lau
                  ... Yeah - I thought this was bullshit too... I just borrowed one of my friend s Windows disks to install from, and used my license key provided with my
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 21, 2001
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                    On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 06:44:39PM -0400, jsc3@... wrote:
                    > I too feel strongly about this. Dell did not really try to truly support
                    > Linux on the laptops, in my opinion. I am also annoyed that the version
                    > of Windows they sent me won't install in my VMware virtual machine. It
                    > complains about it not being a Dell, and bails. Bullshit. I never run
                    > more than one VMware session at a time (it eats over 200 MB of RAM when
                    > I run one copy), so I think I am entitled to run the Dell copy of Windows
                    > on the system even if I happen to be running Linux too.

                    Yeah - I thought this was bullshit too... I just borrowed one of my
                    friend's Windows disks to install from, and used my license key provided
                    with my laptop.

                    -steve

                    --
                    stephen lau :: [slau@...] :: www.whacked.net :: ucsd/cse grad student
                    gpg key id: 0x09E5CD21 via keyservers, or on my website
                  • Norbert Preining
                    ... Inspiron 8000 Pentium III 700 MHz 128 MB RAM(sch) nvidia geforce2go 20Gb ide internal ltmodem and ethernet combo dvd drive firewire usb ... Only thing I
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 21, 2001
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                      On Die, 21 Aug 2001, avery@... wrote:
                      > I see that several people on this list have recently purchased dell
                      > laptops with windows, and installed linux themselves. It would be
                      > very helpful to know the specifications of the laptops (model,
                      > processsor,memory, etc.) and if there were any problems with the
                      > installation.

                      Inspiron 8000
                      Pentium III 700 MHz
                      128 MB RAM(sch)
                      nvidia geforce2go
                      20Gb ide
                      internal ltmodem and ethernet combo
                      dvd drive
                      firewire
                      usb ...

                      Only thing I haven't tested till now is firewire, everything else is working.

                      Best wishes


                      Norbert

                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Norbert Preining <preining@...>
                      University of Technology Vienna, Austria gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094
                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                      SKEGNESS (n.)

                      Nose excreta of a malleable consistency.

                      --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff
                    • Sunny Dubey
                      Dell s little thing with Linux is all BS, heres why ... Dell is a mega-corporation, which means one thing and ONLY one thing, need MUST make money and lots of
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 21, 2001
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                        Dell's little thing with Linux is all BS,
                        heres why ...

                        Dell is a mega-corporation, which means one thing and ONLY one thing, need
                        MUST make money and lots of it.

                        Lets see now ....

                        Supporting WIndows is pretty easy. Beacause most people know how to use it,
                        and it generally works well for whatever the average joe wants to do.
                        Windows == Cheap/Easy Support

                        Supporting Linux is pretty hard. Because most people don't know how to use
                        it, and you normally have to take a few extra steps to get things to work on
                        it. And linux sucks even more because the average joe *can't* do many things
                        on it. (quick time movies, major commerical games, etc) (additionally out
                        sourcing your linux support to companies like Redhat or linuxcare makes you
                        look bad because then it shows your company isn't smart enough to do linux in
                        the first place.)
                        Linux == Hard/Expensive Support

                        When Dell and their ODM's go out to create the next generation computer
                        system, those computer systems are tested to work ONLY with Microsoft. Dell,
                        and the ODM's they hire, don't give a damn about Linux or any other OS. So
                        why would Dell waste time to support and OS, it didn't even support at the
                        "creation level".

                        Its all about business come to think of it. There never was much of demand
                        for linux on the desktop/laptop. There must be a hundred thousand customers
                        who purchased a dell system with windows, as opposed to the few hundred (not
                        even?) who asked for linux. In this case, dell would be *losing* money,
                        which is the last thing a mega corporation wants.

                        I'm pretty sure the corporate execs (whores) at dell aren't blind either. If
                        they see people like us giving grass root support for it, the last thing
                        they'd want to do is take their time and thier money to support linux then.
                        Linux has been very much community based, and it would suck a whole lot if it
                        weren't. (The last thing we need is for IBM and SGI to be deciding which
                        file system should be the defualt one in linux 3.0)

                        Those are my two food stamps, and I'm always up for flames.

                        Sunny Dubey

                        PS: I'm also pretty damn sure Microsoft and Dell had something to do with
                        this. Somewhere in the twisted turn of events, I'm pretty sure Dell got
                        Microsoft products for cheaper than what they had when the did support Linux
                        on the desktop/laptop.

                        PPS: The server world is another story ...

                        PPPS: the following link was posted on slashdot .. for those of you who
                        didn't see it .. its pretty interesting ...
                        http://www.mindconnection.com/library/computertips/whomakeslaptops.htm

                        PPPPS: for those of you, who were actually crazy enought to dowload the
                        Solaris ISO's off of sun.com and try installing it on your laptop know
                        exactly why support a totally weird OS doesn't make much sense. I tried, and
                        got some pretty weird results, heh.
                      • J. Orrell
                        All very interesting. I do find it curious that this list has, oh, about 1700 people on it. That s quite a little family - or a niche market if you prefer
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 21, 2001
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                          All very interesting. I do find it curious that this list has, oh, about
                          1700 people on it. That's quite a little family - or 'a niche market' if
                          you prefer those nasty terms.

                          I know 3 more people with 'dell linux laptops', who (I may be wrong)
                          aren't on this list.

                          4x1700x2,500 = 17 million

                          That's a nice chunk of change.

                          The list was founded 2 years ago. I guess 8.5 million a year is
                          actually chump change.

                          Cheers,
                          John O.

                          On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Sunny Dubey wrote:

                          > Dell's little thing with Linux is all BS,
                          > heres why ...
                          >
                          > Dell is a mega-corporation, which means one thing and ONLY one thing, need
                          > MUST make money and lots of it.
                          >
                          > Lets see now ....
                          >
                          > Supporting WIndows is pretty easy. Beacause most people know how to use it,
                          > and it generally works well for whatever the average joe wants to do.
                          > Windows == Cheap/Easy Support
                          >
                          > Supporting Linux is pretty hard. Because most people don't know how to use
                          > it, and you normally have to take a few extra steps to get things to work on
                          > it. And linux sucks even more because the average joe *can't* do many things
                          > on it. (quick time movies, major commerical games, etc) (additionally out
                          > sourcing your linux support to companies like Redhat or linuxcare makes you
                          > look bad because then it shows your company isn't smart enough to do linux in
                          > the first place.)
                          > Linux == Hard/Expensive Support
                          >
                          > When Dell and their ODM's go out to create the next generation computer
                          > system, those computer systems are tested to work ONLY with Microsoft. Dell,
                          > and the ODM's they hire, don't give a damn about Linux or any other OS. So
                          > why would Dell waste time to support and OS, it didn't even support at the
                          > "creation level".
                          >
                          > Its all about business come to think of it. There never was much of demand
                          > for linux on the desktop/laptop. There must be a hundred thousand customers
                          > who purchased a dell system with windows, as opposed to the few hundred (not
                          > even?) who asked for linux. In this case, dell would be *losing* money,
                          > which is the last thing a mega corporation wants.
                          >
                          > I'm pretty sure the corporate execs (whores) at dell aren't blind either. If
                          > they see people like us giving grass root support for it, the last thing
                          > they'd want to do is take their time and thier money to support linux then.
                          > Linux has been very much community based, and it would suck a whole lot if it
                          > weren't. (The last thing we need is for IBM and SGI to be deciding which
                          > file system should be the defualt one in linux 3.0)
                          >
                          > Those are my two food stamps, and I'm always up for flames.
                          >
                          > Sunny Dubey
                          >
                          > PS: I'm also pretty damn sure Microsoft and Dell had something to do with
                          > this. Somewhere in the twisted turn of events, I'm pretty sure Dell got
                          > Microsoft products for cheaper than what they had when the did support Linux
                          > on the desktop/laptop.
                          >
                          > PPS: The server world is another story ...
                          >
                          > PPPS: the following link was posted on slashdot .. for those of you who
                          > didn't see it .. its pretty interesting ...
                          > http://www.mindconnection.com/library/computertips/whomakeslaptops.htm
                          >
                          > PPPPS: for those of you, who were actually crazy enought to dowload the
                          > Solaris ISO's off of sun.com and try installing it on your laptop know
                          > exactly why support a totally weird OS doesn't make much sense. I tried, and
                          > got some pretty weird results, heh.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --------------------------------------------------------------
                          > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
                          > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl-faq
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • jsc3@havoc.gtf.org
                          ... Yeah, generally a lot of manufacturers tend to just recommend reinstalling the OS using that rescue CD - what a pain if you have downloaded all the latest
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 22, 2001
                          • 0 Attachment
                            > Dell's little thing with Linux is all BS,
                            > heres why ...
                            >
                            > Dell is a mega-corporation, which means one thing and ONLY one thing, need
                            > MUST make money and lots of it.
                            >
                            > Lets see now ....
                            >
                            > Supporting WIndows is pretty easy. Beacause most people know how to use it,
                            > and it generally works well for whatever the average joe wants to do.
                            > Windows == Cheap/Easy Support

                            Yeah, generally a lot of manufacturers tend to just recommend reinstalling
                            the OS using that rescue CD - what a pain if you have downloaded all the
                            latest drivers, updates, etc - you get to go through all of that again.

                            > Supporting Linux is pretty hard. Because most people don't know how to use
                            > it, and you normally have to take a few extra steps to get things to work on
                            > it. And linux sucks even more because the average joe *can't* do many things
                            > on it. (quick time movies, major commerical games, etc) (additionally out
                            > sourcing your linux support to companies like Redhat or linuxcare makes you
                            > look bad because then it shows your company isn't smart enough to do linux in
                            > the first place.)
                            > Linux == Hard/Expensive Support

                            I will agree, I guess. At least for now. But wait until the new
                            Windows XP licensing model takes effect. You want to change your
                            hardware again? Oops, you are over the limit, gotta call M$ and
                            get a new key. You want dual processors? Oh, you have to pay
                            for the Enterprise version (double or triple the price, at least).
                            You want to run Windows under VMware, in addition to being able
                            to dual boot it? Another license nightmare... If M$ keeps going
                            this direction to capture all of the revenue they can, because of
                            a perceived lack of growth opportunities in other directions, then
                            the perceived ease of use will be diminished, particularly in
                            multiple computer households (I have a desktop and a laptop, my
                            wife and son each have a desktop, and my wife wants a laptop).
                            In the future, M$ wants to make sure you have licenses for each
                            and every one of those. To be sure, that is the law now, but
                            how many people actually buy multiple licenses in this situation.
                            I think I am a rarity in that I probably have more valid M$
                            licenses than machines, just because I buy them used when
                            necessary (anybody want a Windows ME license - what a piece
                            of crap that OS is, crashes all the time, worse than Windows 98).

                            > When Dell and their ODM's go out to create the next generation computer
                            > system, those computer systems are tested to work ONLY with Microsoft. Dell,
                            > and the ODM's they hire, don't give a damn about Linux or any other OS. So
                            > why would Dell waste time to support and OS, it didn't even support at the
                            > "creation level".

                            This is absolutely true. Most of the manufacturers (but not all, mind you)
                            don't take Linux into account at any phase of the design process.

                            > Its all about business come to think of it. There never was much of demand
                            > for linux on the desktop/laptop.

                            I think this is largely due to the huge difference in marketing muscle,
                            and the huge lead Windows had. I think in the future there will be more
                            demand for Linux on the desktop, not as much as for Windows to be sure,
                            but plenty none-the-less. For many folks who don't play games as much,
                            Linux is VERY capable as an email client and a web browsing client.

                            > There must be a hundred thousand customers
                            > who purchased a dell system with windows, as opposed to the few hundred (not
                            > even?) who asked for linux. In this case, dell would be *losing* money,
                            > which is the last thing a mega corporation wants.

                            Yes, but thousands more just bought their Dell with Windows, either because
                            they couldn't find the model with Linux on it (since Dell did not make
                            them easy to find), or because they were very limited in what what Dell
                            offered them with Linux on it? This group here is proof that most of
                            the people running Linux on Dell laptops did NOT buy them that way
                            from Dell. It is also proof that some real work is left before Linux
                            runs as smoothly on laptops as Windows does.

                            > I'm pretty sure the corporate execs (whores) at dell aren't blind either. If
                            > they see people like us giving grass root support for it, the last thing
                            > they'd want to do is take their time and thier money to support linux then.
                            > Linux has been very much community based, and it would suck a whole lot if it
                            > weren't. (The last thing we need is for IBM and SGI to be deciding which
                            > file system should be the defualt one in linux 3.0)

                            Actually, both XFS and JFS are good filesystems, with proven track
                            records. I for one would feel very happy if my Redhat 8.1 came with
                            XFS as a standard supported filesystem. Unlike ReiserFS, XFS is proven
                            in multiprocessor multithreaded applications, and it has a lot of
                            basic utilities (such as a working dump and restore) that ReiserFS
                            seems to lack. I for one think that IBM and SGI involvement is a
                            good thing. To be sure, IBM is looking at using Linux for its
                            own benefit, particularly as a way of getting back at M$. If
                            IBM can put Linux on its servers, and avoid paying M$ for Windows
                            licenses on them, it is quite happy to do so. I don't think
                            IBM can take control of Linux - it is less able to do so than
                            it was able to control Windows. Linux is a grassroots movement,
                            and if IBM doesn't play the way the people wish, IBM will be
                            ignored, even more effectively than M$ ignored them when they
                            had differences of opinion.

                            > Those are my two food stamps, and I'm always up for flames.

                            No flames, just comments.

                            > Sunny Dubey
                            >
                            > PS: I'm also pretty damn sure Microsoft and Dell had something to do with
                            > this. Somewhere in the twisted turn of events, I'm pretty sure Dell got
                            > Microsoft products for cheaper than what they had when the did support Linux
                            > on the desktop/laptop.

                            I am also pretty sure the M$ encouraged Dell to ignore Linux, just as
                            Intel encourages Dell to ignore AMD.

                            > PPS: The server world is another story ...

                            Yes it is, and that is the part the IBM is really interested in. Who
                            knows what SGI is interested in, they have been sliding down a slippery
                            slope to eventual oblivion for several years now. Their involvement
                            with Linux at least gives us a chance to benefit from their technology
                            before the eventual buyout by a larger company, at which point they
                            will cease to exist and most of their technology will vanish in the
                            commercial world (as happened with DEC when bought by Compaq).

                            > PPPPS: for those of you, who were actually crazy enought to dowload the
                            > Solaris ISO's off of sun.com and try installing it on your laptop know
                            > exactly why support a totally weird OS doesn't make much sense. I tried, and
                            > got some pretty weird results, heh.

                            Solaris is not really interested in Intel hardware; I make a living
                            doing Solaris work, and they have done a lot better than SGI, or
                            anybody else, in the Unix server market. A lot of what you see is
                            a reaction to the Linux world - Linux affects them more than it
                            does M$, since Sun lives and dies in the server market. Sun cannot
                            really try to be Linux, they need to largely keep doing what they
                            have been doing in the server market, and leave the Intel world
                            out of it. Even the guys who work at Sun don't use Solaris on their
                            laptops - Solaris X86 is the proverbial red-headed-stepchild.

                            --
                            John Cronin
                            mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
                          • Sunny Dubey
                            hrmmm ... here goes ... ... I never thought of it that way. But now that you do bring it up, I can see how microsoft plans to stick companies like Dell into
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 22, 2001
                            • 0 Attachment
                              hrmmm ... here goes ...

                              > I will agree, I guess. At least for now. But wait until the new
                              > Windows XP licensing model takes effect. You want to change your
                              > hardware again? Oops, you are over the limit, gotta call M$ and
                              > get a new key. You want dual processors? Oh, you have to pay
                              > for the Enterprise version (double or triple the price, at least).
                              > You want to run Windows under VMware, in addition to being able
                              > to dual boot it? Another license nightmare... If M$ keeps going
                              > this direction to capture all of the revenue they can, because of
                              > a perceived lack of growth opportunities in other directions, then
                              > the perceived ease of use will be diminished, particularly in
                              > multiple computer households (I have a desktop and a laptop, my
                              > wife and son each have a desktop, and my wife wants a laptop).
                              > In the future, M$ wants to make sure you have licenses for each
                              > and every one of those. To be sure, that is the law now, but
                              > how many people actually buy multiple licenses in this situation.
                              > I think I am a rarity in that I probably have more valid M$
                              > licenses than machines, just because I buy them used when
                              > necessary (anybody want a Windows ME license - what a piece
                              > of crap that OS is, crashes all the time, worse than Windows 98).
                              >

                              I never thought of it that way.
                              But now that you do bring it up, I can see how microsoft plans to stick
                              companies like Dell into hell with the various licenses.

                              >
                              > I think this is largely due to the huge difference in marketing muscle,
                              > and the huge lead Windows had. I think in the future there will be more
                              > demand for Linux on the desktop, not as much as for Windows to be sure,
                              > but plenty none-the-less. For many folks who don't play games as much,
                              > Linux is VERY capable as an email client and a web browsing client.
                              >
                              Yes, the problem is that first people need to realize that Linux has the
                              abilities to be able to exactly what the average joe wants (with the
                              exception of a few things). People need to look into KDE more than ever
                              now. And Secondly, the software producers too need to make their stuff LInux
                              compatible. It would be nice to be able to go to sites like macromedia.com
                              or real.com .. and see *supported* versions of their technology for linux.
                              (I'm tired of all this crappy *unsupported* software which is buggy half the
                              time.)


                              > Yes, but thousands more just bought their Dell with Windows, either because
                              > they couldn't find the model with Linux on it (since Dell did not make
                              > them easy to find), or because they were very limited in what what Dell
                              > offered them with Linux on it? This group here is proof that most of
                              > the people running Linux on Dell laptops did NOT buy them that way
                              > from Dell. It is also proof that some real work is left before Linux
                              > runs as smoothly on laptops as Windows does.
                              >

                              I fully agree that there must of been plenty of people on this mailing list
                              who had to buy their laptop with windows, even if they didn't want to.
                              However, I know for a fact when you look at the numbers of those poeople who
                              *wanted* to buy their computers with windows as opposed to those who wanted
                              to buy their computer with linux, there will one very large difference.


                              > Actually, both XFS and JFS are good filesystems, with proven track
                              > records. I for one would feel very happy if my Redhat 8.1 came with
                              > XFS as a standard supported filesystem. Unlike ReiserFS, XFS is proven
                              > in multiprocessor multithreaded applications, and it has a lot of
                              > basic utilities (such as a working dump and restore) that ReiserFS
                              > seems to lack. I for one think that IBM and SGI involvement is a
                              > good thing. To be sure, IBM is looking at using Linux for its
                              > own benefit, particularly as a way of getting back at M$. If
                              > IBM can put Linux on its servers, and avoid paying M$ for Windows
                              > licenses on them, it is quite happy to do so. I don't think
                              > IBM can take control of Linux - it is less able to do so than
                              > it was able to control Windows. Linux is a grassroots movement,
                              > and if IBM doesn't play the way the people wish, IBM will be
                              > ignored, even more effectively than M$ ignored them when they
                              > had differences of opinion.
                              >
                              its not about those technologies being good or bad. Its about who chooses
                              what goes into the kernel and what not. The last thing we need is for linux
                              to turn into corporate political fued, in which the corporation and not the
                              people would be choosing what will happen to linux. However, thanks to linux
                              being OSS, if the kernel ever became under corporate control, some kernel
                              hacker like Alan Cox, or Al Viro would simply fork the code, and do as they
                              pleased.


                              > I am also pretty sure the M$ encouraged Dell to ignore Linux, just as
                              > Intel encourages Dell to ignore AMD.
                              >
                              actually ... look at the following link ...
                              http://arstechnica.com/archive/2001/0601-1.html

                              One of the posts talks about how dell sticks to Intel because they can get
                              more money from major corporate accounts as opposed to using AMD.

                              > Solaris is not really interested in Intel hardware;
                              yeah, I was just playing around with it. It was the only other major UNIX
                              for x86 I had yet to try. (Well solaris isn't major for x86, but it still is
                              one powerful unix out there)

                              Sunny Dubey
                            • Sunny Dubey
                              math was never my greatest subject. Mind telling me where those numbers came about from? thanks Sunny Dubey
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 22, 2001
                              • 0 Attachment
                                math was never my greatest subject. Mind telling me where those numbers came
                                about from?

                                thanks

                                Sunny Dubey

                                On Tuesday 21 August 2001 09:23 pm, you wrote:
                                > All very interesting. I do find it curious that this list has, oh, about
                                > 1700 people on it. That's quite a little family - or 'a niche market' if
                                > you prefer those nasty terms.
                                >
                                > I know 3 more people with 'dell linux laptops', who (I may be wrong)
                                > aren't on this list.
                                >
                                > 4x1700x2,500 = 17 million
                                >
                                > That's a nice chunk of change.
                                >
                                > The list was founded 2 years ago. I guess 8.5 million a year is
                                > actually chump change.
                                >
                                > Cheers,
                                > John O.
                              • jsc3@havoc.gtf.org
                                ... Actually, it is not the consumer as much as the end user, unless M$ intends to have the end user call Dell (or whichever vendor sells the hardware) rather
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 22, 2001
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  > hrmmm ... here goes ...
                                  >
                                  > > I will agree, I guess. At least for now. But wait until the new
                                  > > Windows XP licensing model takes effect. You want to change your
                                  > > hardware again? Oops, you are over the limit, gotta call M$ and
                                  > > get a new key. You want dual processors? Oh, you have to pay
                                  > > for the Enterprise version (double or triple the price, at least).
                                  > > You want to run Windows under VMware, in addition to being able
                                  > > to dual boot it? Another license nightmare... If M$ keeps going
                                  > > this direction to capture all of the revenue they can, because of
                                  > > a perceived lack of growth opportunities in other directions, then
                                  > > the perceived ease of use will be diminished, particularly in
                                  > > multiple computer households (I have a desktop and a laptop, my
                                  > > wife and son each have a desktop, and my wife wants a laptop).
                                  > > In the future, M$ wants to make sure you have licenses for each
                                  > > and every one of those. To be sure, that is the law now, but
                                  > > how many people actually buy multiple licenses in this situation.
                                  > > I think I am a rarity in that I probably have more valid M$
                                  > > licenses than machines, just because I buy them used when
                                  > > necessary (anybody want a Windows ME license - what a piece
                                  > > of crap that OS is, crashes all the time, worse than Windows 98).
                                  >
                                  > I never thought of it that way.
                                  > But now that you do bring it up, I can see how microsoft plans to stick
                                  > companies like Dell into hell with the various licenses.

                                  Actually, it is not the consumer as much as the end user, unless M$
                                  intends to have the end user call Dell (or whichever vendor sells the
                                  hardware) rather than M$ to update the license keys or something.

                                  > > Yes, but thousands more just bought their Dell with Windows, either because
                                  > > they couldn't find the model with Linux on it (since Dell did not make
                                  > > them easy to find), or because they were very limited in what what Dell
                                  > > offered them with Linux on it? This group here is proof that most of
                                  > > the people running Linux on Dell laptops did NOT buy them that way
                                  > > from Dell. It is also proof that some real work is left before Linux
                                  > > runs as smoothly on laptops as Windows does.
                                  >
                                  > I fully agree that there must of been plenty of people on this mailing list
                                  > who had to buy their laptop with windows, even if they didn't want to.
                                  > However, I know for a fact when you look at the numbers of those poeople who
                                  > *wanted* to buy their computers with windows as opposed to those who wanted
                                  > to buy their computer with linux, there will one very large difference.

                                  Agreed, but still, the number of people who WANT Linux is significant, and
                                  growing.

                                  > > Actually, both XFS and JFS are good filesystems, with proven track
                                  > > records. I for one would feel very happy if my Redhat 8.1 came with
                                  > > XFS as a standard supported filesystem. Unlike ReiserFS, XFS is proven
                                  > > in multiprocessor multithreaded applications, and it has a lot of
                                  > > basic utilities (such as a working dump and restore) that ReiserFS
                                  > > seems to lack. I for one think that IBM and SGI involvement is a
                                  > > good thing. To be sure, IBM is looking at using Linux for its
                                  > > own benefit, particularly as a way of getting back at M$. If
                                  > > IBM can put Linux on its servers, and avoid paying M$ for Windows
                                  > > licenses on them, it is quite happy to do so. I don't think
                                  > > IBM can take control of Linux - it is less able to do so than
                                  > > it was able to control Windows. Linux is a grassroots movement,
                                  > > and if IBM doesn't play the way the people wish, IBM will be
                                  > > ignored, even more effectively than M$ ignored them when they
                                  > > had differences of opinion.
                                  > >
                                  > its not about those technologies being good or bad. Its about who chooses
                                  > what goes into the kernel and what not. The last thing we need is for linux
                                  > to turn into corporate political fued, in which the corporation and not the
                                  > people would be choosing what will happen to linux. However, thanks to linux
                                  > being OSS, if the kernel ever became under corporate control, some kernel
                                  > hacker like Alan Cox, or Al Viro would simply fork the code, and do as they
                                  > pleased.

                                  And do you really think Linus is going to let IBM have the kernel - I
                                  seriously think not. Linus will be the final arbiter of what goes
                                  in the "official" kernel, and then Alan Cox etc are still always
                                  there, as ever.

                                  > > I am also pretty sure the M$ encouraged Dell to ignore Linux, just as
                                  > > Intel encourages Dell to ignore AMD.
                                  > >
                                  > actually ... look at the following link ...
                                  > http://arstechnica.com/archive/2001/0601-1.html

                                  The link to the survey is gone, and I still don't see any AMD at
                                  Dell. One thing AMD allows the manufacturers to do is lower the
                                  price. They were leading in performance as well, but they let
                                  that slip (a big mistake in my opinion). IBM recently indicated
                                  there are dropping AMD, so Dell is no longer alone as the only
                                  major vendor that doesn't offer an AMD solution.

                                  > One of the posts talks about how dell sticks to Intel because they can get
                                  > more money from major corporate accounts as opposed to using AMD.

                                  Yeah, but the consumer market has shown it cared more about low prices
                                  and high performance, and right now, the corporate market is not buying
                                  a lot of anything.

                                  --
                                  John Cronin
                                  mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
                                • jsc3@havoc.gtf.org
                                  ... Actually, for a company like Dell, it is chump change: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010816/bs/tech_dell_earns_dc_6.html In the last quarter (that is,
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 22, 2001
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    > math was never my greatest subject. Mind telling me where those numbers came
                                    > about from?
                                    >
                                    > thanks
                                    >
                                    > Sunny Dubey
                                    >
                                    > On Tuesday 21 August 2001 09:23 pm, you wrote:
                                    > > All very interesting. I do find it curious that this list has, oh, about
                                    > > 1700 people on it. That's quite a little family - or 'a niche market' if
                                    > > you prefer those nasty terms.
                                    > >
                                    > > I know 3 more people with 'dell linux laptops', who (I may be wrong)
                                    > > aren't on this list.
                                    > >
                                    > > 4x1700x2,500 = 17 million
                                    > >
                                    > > That's a nice chunk of change.
                                    > >
                                    > > The list was founded 2 years ago. I guess 8.5 million a year is
                                    > > actually chump change.

                                    Actually, for a company like Dell, it is chump change:

                                    http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010816/bs/tech_dell_earns_dc_6.html

                                    In the last quarter (that is, 3 months) Dell had a net loss of 101
                                    million dollars on 7.61 billion dollars of sales - it is a down
                                    quarter for Dell (and the rest of the industry, to be fair). So 8.5
                                    million dollars a year in sales breaks down to roughly 2.1 million
                                    dollars per quarter, or less than 0.03% of total sales (in a down
                                    quarter).

                                    --
                                    John Cronin
                                    mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
                                  • jjarrar@optonline.net
                                    I have a Dell Inspirion 8000 512 megs ram, Navidia Gforce 2 go 32 megs ram, 44 gig hard drive, floppy replaced with 17 gigs hard drive. UXGA display. Came pre
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Oct 20, 2001
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I have a Dell Inspirion 8000 512 megs ram, Navidia Gforce 2 go 32
                                      megs ram, 44 gig hard drive, floppy replaced with 17 gigs hard
                                      drive. UXGA display. Came pre installed with W2K pro.

                                      I used partition magic to reduce W2K to 25Gigs. moved the partition
                                      up leaving the first 925 megs for a dos fat partition. Installd
                                      minimal W2K Advanced server on fat partition for recovery purpose.
                                      installe SuSe 7.2 pro as my main Linux system. In the process made
                                      sure that swap, temp and and additional partion were not used.
                                      Installed Red Hat 7.1 by selecting the partitions made by SuSe.
                                      recovered booted SuSe and updated Lilo.

                                      The SuSe Lilo now is able to boot windows , SuSe kernals, and Red Hat
                                      Kernals. I have both Gnome and KDE x servers working at 1600x1200 in
                                      16K color. I love the setup, but still have 2 problems :

                                      1) I am still having problem having either systems working with
                                      Synaptics touch pad mouse or identifing it as a PS/2 mouse. I have
                                      installed tpconfig 3.1.2 but still no help.

                                      2) I am still having problems with the power managment. IF I leave
                                      the system for very long the display losses all light and cant
                                      revcover it until I make a major change in the hardware and reboot a
                                      few times. This I still have not researched.

                                      Two notes to help new users. add vga=794 in your lilo global config
                                      or on the lilo boot line ie stop the boot and type:
                                      linux vga=794

                                      this greatly helps SaX2 and redhat figure out and fix your display
                                      problems. Also mmake sure you install all the x-servers especially in
                                      redhat since if you dont istall them all most probably the auto
                                      detect will not be able to figure out your hardware.

                                      Please email me any questions if I can help. I would appretiate any
                                      help on the mouse. I know I can use my external PS2 mouse , but that
                                      does not make it right. need to make this the perfect machine :)

                                      P.S> even that dell does not support Linux, lots of their tech
                                      support run it. Just find an excuse to call. I had to figure all this
                                      on my own, and with the help of the SuSe knowledge base on xwindows.

                                      --- In linux-dell-laptops@y..., Stephen Lau <slau@u...> wrote:
                                      > I've got two Dell laptops:
                                      >
                                      > computer #1:
                                      > Inspiron 8000
                                      > Pentium III, 1.0 GHz with 15" UXGA display
                                      > ATI Rage Mobility M4 - 32 megs of RAM
                                      > 384 MB SDRAM, 1 256 and 1 128 DIMM
                                      > 32 GB IBM-DJSA TravelStar hard drive, 9.5mm
                                      > Win2000 pre-installed, Progeny Debian Linux 1.0 installed on my own
                                      > LG DVD-Rom drive
                                      > ActionTec 56K modem and Intel EtherExpress Pro/100 mini-PCI combo
                                      >
                                      > computer #2:
                                      > Inspiron 8000
                                      > Pentium III, 1.0 GHz with 15" UXGA display
                                      > ATI Rage Mobility M4 - 32 megs of RAM
                                      > 256 MB SDRAM, 2 128 meg DIMMs
                                      > 20 GB Hitachi hard drive, 9.5mm
                                      > WinMe pre-installed, Red Hat 7.1 installed on my own
                                      > LG DVD-Rom drive
                                      > 3Com 56K modem + 3c509 nic mini-PCI combo
                                      > Dell TrueMobile 1150 PCMCIA 802.11 wireless ethernet card
                                      >
                                      > Ignore what Dell says about the RAM - they can not invalidate your
                                      > warranty for installing your own RAM... and I wouldn't want to
                                      order a
                                      > pre-installed Linux system anyway. half the fun is installing it
                                      > yourself. :-)
                                      >
                                      > -steve
                                      >
                                      > On Tue, Aug 21, 2001 at 09:24:27PM -0000, avery@u... wrote:
                                      > > Hi,
                                      > >
                                      > > I see that several people on this list have recently purchased
                                      dell
                                      > > laptops with windows, and installed linux themselves. It would be
                                      > > very helpful to know the specifications of the laptops (model,
                                      > > processsor,memory, etc.) and if there were any problems with the
                                      > > installation.
                                      > >
                                      > > > >>> Latitude C600:
                                      > > > >>> PentiumĀ® III processor, 850MHz with 14.1" TFT Display
                                      > > > >>> 256MB SDRAM, 1 DIMM
                                      > > > >>> 20GB Hard Drive, 9.5MM
                                      > > > >>> Redhat Linux 7.0, English, with BSC Service
                                      > > > >>> 24X max/10X min CD-ROM Drive
                                      > > > >>> 56K PCMCIA V.90, PSION Cable Modem
                                      > > > >>> 3COM 10/100 CardBus LAN NIC, V2.6.5
                                      > > > >>> 8 Cell Lithium-Ion Battery.
                                      > > > >>> Microsoft PS/2 2-Button Intellimouse with Scroll
                                      > >
                                      > > but they refuse to sell me a linux preinstalled laptop with a
                                      higher
                                      > > processor or more SDRAM, even though the windows versions for
                                      > > latitude c600 offer these options (Pentium III processor with 1
                                      GHz,
                                      > > and Memory SDRAM 512MB).
                                      > >
                                      > > I went so far as to ask if I could separately purchase 256MB
                                      SDRAM,
                                      > > manufactured by Dell and recommended for Dell Latitude C600,
                                      > > [DELL 256MB Module for a Dell Latitude C600 Series System / 144-
                                      pin
                                      > > SODIMM, SDRAM, PC100 / Manufacturer Part# D58JEV /Dell Part#
                                      802396-1]
                                      > >
                                      > > My sales rep wrote: "be advised that Dell probably won't offer
                                      > > technical support if you add that other 256MB." Huh? There are
                                      no
                                      > > warnings listed on the web page
                                      > > (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.asp?Sku=802396%
                                      2D1)
                                      > >
                                      > > Any comments or advice would be most welcome.
                                      > >
                                      > > Regarding Dell's business decision to stop offering linux on
                                      laptops,
                                      > > I must say that, even at the beginning of the summer when Dell
                                      > > offered linux laptops online, it was very difficult to find them.
                                      I
                                      > > had to do a keyword search for linux, follow the suggested links,
                                      and
                                      > > click on exactly the right buttons to get the linux option. One
                                      wrong
                                      > > mouseclick, and I got bounced back to the windows only systems.
                                      It's
                                      > > difficult to sell a product if your customers can't find it!
                                      > >
                                      > > Avery
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In linux-dell-laptops@y..., Chris Mauricio <cmauricio@s...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > > > This discussion is in full swing over at SlashDot.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/08/02/168248&mode=flat
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I tried to order a laptop with Linux preinstalled on it. It was
                                      > > > lower video RAM, smaller screen, less RAM and slower processor
                                      than
                                      > > > what they offered with WinMe /Win2k. Also, IIRC the prices were
                                      > > > ~same for the higher powered Winboxes. So I ordered the Winme
                                      I8K
                                      > > > and wiped it and installed RH 7.1
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Less choice, ~same price, no wonder people weren't ordering it.
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                      > > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
                                      > > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl-faq
                                      > >
                                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > stephen lau :: [slau@u...] :: www.whacked.net :: ucsd/cse grad
                                      student
                                      > gpg key id: 0x09E5CD21 via keyservers, or on my website
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