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Re: [linux-dell-laptops] internal hard drive DELL800 latitude

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  • Allan Gottlieb
    ... I agree. At home every morning I do a backup (dump) from the laptop to a desktop and via the internet to New York University, where I teach. Those days
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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      At Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:39:21 -0400 Jim Diamond <zsd@...> wrote:

      > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 22:17 (-0800), Ardell Faul wrote:
      >
      >> For what it's worth, I see a lot of failed hard drives in the laptop
      >> repair business, and my experience has been that the drives most prone
      >> to fail are the ones over 100Gbyte. In fact, I don't think I have ever
      >> had to replace a drive in the 40 to 80 Gbyte range. And almost without
      >> exception, the drives I see in laptops almost never have anything like
      >> even 40 gbytes of data in them. Anybody who downloads and carrys around
      >> 160 Gbytes worth of important data in a laptop is being foolish. Very
      >> foolish. They are just asking for it, and they usually get it. I don't
      >> understand why anybody would even WANT to put a very large hard drive in
      >> a laptop. If you want to collect a lot of music or video, an external
      >> backup drive or a desktop drive is a much more sane choice. It is just
      >> plain stupid to carry around a laptop with a lot of data stored in the
      >> hard drive. One slip of the hand, or a good solid thump under the area
      >> where the hard drive is, and you can kiss all your data goodbye.
      >
      >> I guess it is the Geek Squad blurb, you know--put in a 160 Gbyte hard
      >> drive, 2 gigs of memory, and flash the BIOS and you will have a
      >> screaming machine.
      >
      >> What a bunch of shit that is.
      >
      > Your reply is neither helpful nor well-thought out. Just because
      > someone has a large drive in their laptop does not mean that they
      > don't have it backed up somewhere, so your assumption that they will
      > lose all their data if their disk goes kaput is just silly.
      >
      > Second, Kris didn't say his data is important.
      >
      > Third, the point of having a laptop is mobility. There is no point in
      > having a laptop if you have to carry around your desktop or external
      > drives to get at your data.
      >
      > Or maybe I'm just a foolish person, like almost everyone I know who
      > uses their laptop as their primary computing platform.

      I agree. At home every morning I do a backup (dump) from the laptop to
      a desktop and via the internet to New York University, where I teach.
      Those days when I go to work, I do an additional backup to NYU and often
      a third to both sites when I come home. All these are performed
      partition to partition on the laptop in single user mode and then the
      directory containing the dumps is rsync'ed to the desktop(s) in
      multiuser mode. Plus I have a cron job that does an rsync of the
      live filesystem.

      I find it very convenient to have all my data with me at both sites.

      allan
    • Jim Diamond
      ... Have you considered Unison? I ve been using that for a while, with good success. On the days when I go in to my university (Acadia), I often work from my
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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        On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:14 (-0500), Allan Gottlieb wrote:

        > At Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:39:21 -0400 Jim Diamond <zsd@...> wrote:

        >> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 22:17 (-0800), Ardell Faul wrote:

        ...snipped...

        >>> What a bunch of shit that is.

        >> Your reply is neither helpful nor well-thought out. Just because
        >> someone has a large drive in their laptop does not mean that they
        >> don't have it backed up somewhere, so your assumption that they will
        >> lose all their data if their disk goes kaput is just silly.

        >> Second, Kris didn't say his data is important.

        >> Third, the point of having a laptop is mobility. There is no point in
        >> having a laptop if you have to carry around your desktop or external
        >> drives to get at your data.

        >> Or maybe I'm just a foolish person, like almost everyone I know who
        >> uses their laptop as their primary computing platform.

        > I agree. At home every morning I do a backup (dump) from the laptop to
        > a desktop and via the internet to New York University, where I teach.
        > Those days when I go to work, I do an additional backup to NYU and often
        > a third to both sites when I come home. All these are performed
        > partition to partition on the laptop in single user mode and then the
        > directory containing the dumps is rsync'ed to the desktop(s) in
        > multiuser mode. Plus I have a cron job that does an rsync of the
        > live filesystem.

        > I find it very convenient to have all my data with me at both sites.

        Have you considered Unison? I've been using that for a while, with
        good success. On the days when I go in to my university (Acadia), I
        often work from my desktop, which means my updates need to be done
        bi-directionally, which Unison handles nicely.

        And when at home, I "backup" to another laptop there with Unison.

        Ardell's comment that "having all of your valuable data only on your
        laptop is dangerous" (which was part of what I snipped out) is quite
        valid, it is too bad that he chose to phrase it in the way he did.
        Regardless of how the message was delivered, at the risk of sounding
        preachy, I encourage all of you to realize that it is not "if" your
        disk goes bad, it is "when". You might be thinking that "it has never
        happened to me", but there are a lot of people who *used to* think the
        exact same way. At my university, all of the students have had
        laptops for something like the last 10 or 12 years. And as much as
        you can warn people about not abusing their laptop and backing up
        their data, there are always a few who find out the hard way that
        disks occasionally fail.

        Cheers.
        Jim
      • Allan Gottlieb
        ... I don t see much different. I plug my monitor and keyboard/mouse into the laptop; every hour my files are rsync ed to the desktop and I have the single
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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          At Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:26:37 -0400 Jim Diamond <zsd@...> wrote:

          > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:14 (-0500), Allan Gottlieb wrote:
          >
          >> I agree. At home every morning I do a backup (dump) from the laptop to
          >> a desktop and via the internet to New York University, where I teach.
          >> Those days when I go to work, I do an additional backup to NYU and often
          >> a third to both sites when I come home. All these are performed
          >> partition to partition on the laptop in single user mode and then the
          >> directory containing the dumps is rsync'ed to the desktop(s) in
          >> multiuser mode. Plus I have a cron job that does an rsync of the
          >> live filesystem.
          >
          >> I find it very convenient to have all my data with me at both sites.
          >
          > Have you considered Unison? I've been using that for a while, with
          > good success. On the days when I go in to my university (Acadia), I
          > often work from my desktop, which means my updates need to be done
          > bi-directionally, which Unison handles nicely.

          I don't see much different. I plug my monitor and keyboard/mouse into
          the laptop; every hour my files are rsync'ed to the desktop and I have
          the single user dumps one or more times a day that are also on desktops

          > And when at home, I "backup" to another laptop there with Unison.
          >
          > Ardell's comment that "having all of your valuable data only on your
          > laptop is dangerous" (which was part of what I snipped out) is quite
          > valid, it is too bad that he chose to phrase it in the way he did.
          > Regardless of how the message was delivered, at the risk of sounding
          > preachy, I encourage all of you to realize that it is not "if" your
          > disk goes bad, it is "when".

          I agree and *when* my laptop disk went bad a year ago, nyu loaned me
          another laptop while I ordered a replacement. My dumps were valid and I
          lost no data.

          I am not arguing against keeping the master copy on a desktop or server,
          just that the "primary laptop" is viable as well.

          allan
        • bil
          I remember reading some battery performanace tests, from Phronix I think, that said 5200 rpm provided better life and the read write performace was not much
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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            I remember reading some battery performanace tests, from Phronix I think, that
            said 5200 rpm provided better life and the read write performace was not much
            slower then 7200 rpm with larger disks since the data is packed so close
            together on the disk platter. They also did not see any battery life
            increase with solid state drives.

            On Saturday 13 December 2008 11:20:19 pm kiyer25 wrote:
            > Hi all,
            >
            > My 80 GB 7200 rpm internal hard drive (hitachi) died (just 3 year and 1
            > month). I would like to buy a internal hard drive which is reliable and
            > best one with reasonable price as well.
            >
            > I am looking for 160 GB with 5400 or 7200 hard drive.
            >
            > It is IDE 2.5, ata 100, 8MB buffer. Really appreciate suggestion and
            > any inputs to buy a new approbriate internal hard drive for my DELL800.
            >
            > Thanks a lot
            >
            > cheers
            > kris
          • Jim Diamond
            ... The specs I read from the manufacturers indicated the newer generation 7200 s were no more power hungry than the older 5400 s. I didn t look and see if
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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              On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 15:59 (-0600), bil wrote:

              > I remember reading some battery performanace tests, from Phronix I
              > think, that said 5200 rpm provided better life
              The specs I read from the manufacturers indicated the newer generation
              7200's were no more power hungry than the older 5400's. I didn't look
              and see if the newer 5400's (if there were any at the time) were
              different than the old 5400's (it wouldn't be surprising if the were
              better).

              > and the read write performace was not much slower then 7200 rpm with
              > larger disks since the data is packed so close together on the disk
              > platter.
              ? If the disks have the same density, the 7200 RPM one should read
              72/54 times as fast once the reading/writing starts, no?

              Cheers.
              Jim
            • Alexandre Lymberopoulos
              Almost totally agree with Ardell, but it depends on the computing needs of a person. I m in the low profile side, since I don t have multi core cpus to do all
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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                Almost totally agree with Ardell, but it depends on the computing
                needs of a person. I'm in the low profile side, since I don't have
                multi core cpus to do all the "simple" computing I do.

                And a personal advice: *do* backup all of your valuable data.

                []s, lymber
                --
                ===============================================================================
                Alexandre Lymberopoulos - lymber@...
                ===============================================================================
              • Allan Gottlieb
                ... Sure, but for modest blocksizes the transfer time you mention is less than either the seek time or rotational latency. Rotational latency for 7200 would be
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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                  At Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:13:05 -0400 Jim Diamond <zsd@...> wrote:

                  > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 15:59 (-0600), bil wrote:
                  >
                  >> I remember reading some battery performanace tests, from Phronix I
                  >> think, that said 5200 rpm provided better life
                  > The specs I read from the manufacturers indicated the newer generation
                  > 7200's were no more power hungry than the older 5400's. I didn't look
                  > and see if the newer 5400's (if there were any at the time) were
                  > different than the old 5400's (it wouldn't be surprising if the were
                  > better).
                  >
                  >> and the read write performace was not much slower then 7200 rpm with
                  >> larger disks since the data is packed so close together on the disk
                  >> platter.
                  > ? If the disks have the same density, the 7200 RPM one should read
                  > 72/54 times as fast once the reading/writing starts, no?

                  Sure, but for modest blocksizes the transfer time you mention is less
                  than either the seek time or rotational latency.
                  Rotational latency for 7200 would be only 54/72 that of a 5400
                  (analogous to your point about transfer time).

                  allan
                • Peter Fork
                  Hi I know they aren t cheep but what about a slid state drive (SSD) they are getting lower and lower in price buy the month and their are even a few of them
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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                    Hi
                    I know they aren't cheep but what about a slid state drive (SSD) they are getting lower and lower in price buy the month and their are even a few of them that support PATA 100 as well. I would say the 128GB modells are resonably priced. You need to install drivers etc offcourse but if you are willing to open your laptop with a screwdriver you probably can fix that too.

                    Go to a shooping site and search for good prices on a flash drive its the future anyway.
                    \Peter

                    --- Den sön 2008-12-14 skrev Ardell Faul <ardell@...>:

                    > Från: Ardell Faul <ardell@...>
                    > Ämne: Re: [linux-dell-laptops] internal hard drive DELL800 latitude
                    > Till: linux-dell-laptops@yahoogroups.com
                    > Datum: söndag 14 december 2008 07.17
                    > For what it's worth, I see a lot of failed hard drives
                    > in the laptop
                    > repair business, and my experience has been that the drives
                    > most prone
                    > to fail are the ones over 100Gbyte. In fact, I don't
                    > think I have ever
                    > had to replace a drive in the 40 to 80 Gbyte range. And
                    > almost without
                    > exception, the drives I see in laptops almost never have
                    > anything like
                    > even 40 gbytes of data in them. Anybody who downloads and
                    > carrys around
                    > 160 Gbytes worth of important data in a laptop is being
                    > foolish. Very
                    > foolish. They are just asking for it, and they usually get
                    > it. I don't
                    > understand why anybody would even WANT to put a very large
                    > hard drive in
                    > a laptop. If you want to collect a lot of music or video,
                    > an external
                    > backup drive or a desktop drive is a much more sane choice.
                    > It is just
                    > plain stupid to carry around a laptop with a lot of data
                    > stored in the
                    > hard drive. One slip of the hand, or a good solid thump
                    > under the area
                    > where the hard drive is, and you can kiss all your data
                    > goodbye.
                    >
                    > I guess it is the Geek Squad blurb, you know--put in a 160
                    > Gbyte hard
                    > drive, 2 gigs of memory, and flash the BIOS and you will
                    > have a
                    > screaming machine.
                    >
                    > What a bunch of shit that is.
                    >
                    > Ardell Faul
                    > Computer Monitor Service Inc.
                    > Ardell's Laptop and PC Repair
                    > 10816 E. Mission Ave.,
                    > Spokane Valley, Wa. 99206
                    > ardell@...
                    > 509-891-5188
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > kiyer25 wrote:
                    >
                    > > Hi all,
                    > >
                    > > My 80 GB 7200 rpm internal hard drive (hitachi) died
                    > (just 3 year and 1
                    > > month). I would like to buy a internal hard drive
                    > which is reliable and
                    > > best one with reasonable price as well.
                    > >
                    > > I am looking for 160 GB with 5400 or 7200 hard drive.
                    > >
                    > > It is IDE 2.5, ata 100, 8MB buffer. Really appreciate
                    > suggestion and
                    > > any inputs to buy a new approbriate internal hard
                    > drive for my DELL800.
                    > >
                    > > Thanks a lot
                    > >
                    > > cheers
                    > > kris
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
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