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Re: [linux-dell-laptops] internal hard drive DELL800 latitude

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  • Jim Diamond
    ... Your reply is neither helpful nor well-thought out. Just because someone has a large drive in their laptop does not mean that they don t have it backed up
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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      On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 22:17 (-0800), Ardell Faul wrote:

      > For what it's worth, I see a lot of failed hard drives in the laptop
      > repair business, and my experience has been that the drives most prone
      > to fail are the ones over 100Gbyte. In fact, I don't think I have ever
      > had to replace a drive in the 40 to 80 Gbyte range. And almost without
      > exception, the drives I see in laptops almost never have anything like
      > even 40 gbytes of data in them. Anybody who downloads and carrys around
      > 160 Gbytes worth of important data in a laptop is being foolish. Very
      > foolish. They are just asking for it, and they usually get it. I don't
      > understand why anybody would even WANT to put a very large hard drive in
      > a laptop. If you want to collect a lot of music or video, an external
      > backup drive or a desktop drive is a much more sane choice. It is just
      > plain stupid to carry around a laptop with a lot of data stored in the
      > hard drive. One slip of the hand, or a good solid thump under the area
      > where the hard drive is, and you can kiss all your data goodbye.

      > I guess it is the Geek Squad blurb, you know--put in a 160 Gbyte hard
      > drive, 2 gigs of memory, and flash the BIOS and you will have a
      > screaming machine.

      > What a bunch of shit that is.

      Your reply is neither helpful nor well-thought out. Just because
      someone has a large drive in their laptop does not mean that they
      don't have it backed up somewhere, so your assumption that they will
      lose all their data if their disk goes kaput is just silly.

      Second, Kris didn't say his data is important.

      Third, the point of having a laptop is mobility. There is no point in
      having a laptop if you have to carry around your desktop or external
      drives to get at your data.

      Or maybe I'm just a foolish person, like almost everyone I know who
      uses their laptop as their primary computing platform.


      > kiyer25 wrote:

      >> Hi all,

      >> My 80 GB 7200 rpm internal hard drive (hitachi) died (just 3 year and 1
      >> month). I would like to buy a internal hard drive which is reliable and
      >> best one with reasonable price as well.

      >> I am looking for 160 GB with 5400 or 7200 hard drive.

      >> It is IDE 2.5, ata 100, 8MB buffer. Really appreciate suggestion and
      >> any inputs to buy a new approbriate internal hard drive for my DELL800.

      >> Thanks a lot

      Kris (and other apparently foolish people :-)

      I put a Seagate Momentus ST9320421AS 320 GB 7200 RPM disk in my laptop
      a few months ago, and I have no complaints. This was a "state of the
      art" disk when I bought it, but it wouldn't surprise me that it is now
      last week's news.

      I see that Hitachi has dropped the price on their 320 GB 7200 RPM
      laptop drive (e.g, HTS723232L9A360 in their 7K320 series) to under
      $100 here in Canada; YMMV. (I might have picked that one had it been
      available at the time I bought this disk (May or June, for nearly
      twice that price!).)

      Fujitsu also has an offering, MHZ2320BJ.

      All of these disks are very similar is performance and power
      consumption specs (as near as I can tell: they use different ways of
      specifying some of the specs). They all have 16 MB buffers and 300
      MB/sec data transfer rates (interface, not media).

      Seagate had a 5 year warranty, Fujitsu was 3 years, I don't have the
      info for Hitachi.

      WD also made a 320 GB 7200 drive, but there was something about it I
      didn't like (possibly performance was lower).


      Someone (Fujitsu?) announced a 500 GB drive some time around June, but
      it was only a 5400 RPM drive. For me, speed was more important than
      the extra space (320 is plenty for me), but you may have a different
      viewpoint.

      There are variations on the models, some including built-in
      encryption, others with G-force sensors, others with blah blah blah.
      But trying to find those extra features at your favourite discount
      parts store may be tricky.

      Anyway, you should be able to find something you like at a reasonable
      price.

      Cheers.
      Jim
    • Allan Gottlieb
      ... I agree. At home every morning I do a backup (dump) from the laptop to a desktop and via the internet to New York University, where I teach. Those days
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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        At Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:39:21 -0400 Jim Diamond <zsd@...> wrote:

        > On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 22:17 (-0800), Ardell Faul wrote:
        >
        >> For what it's worth, I see a lot of failed hard drives in the laptop
        >> repair business, and my experience has been that the drives most prone
        >> to fail are the ones over 100Gbyte. In fact, I don't think I have ever
        >> had to replace a drive in the 40 to 80 Gbyte range. And almost without
        >> exception, the drives I see in laptops almost never have anything like
        >> even 40 gbytes of data in them. Anybody who downloads and carrys around
        >> 160 Gbytes worth of important data in a laptop is being foolish. Very
        >> foolish. They are just asking for it, and they usually get it. I don't
        >> understand why anybody would even WANT to put a very large hard drive in
        >> a laptop. If you want to collect a lot of music or video, an external
        >> backup drive or a desktop drive is a much more sane choice. It is just
        >> plain stupid to carry around a laptop with a lot of data stored in the
        >> hard drive. One slip of the hand, or a good solid thump under the area
        >> where the hard drive is, and you can kiss all your data goodbye.
        >
        >> I guess it is the Geek Squad blurb, you know--put in a 160 Gbyte hard
        >> drive, 2 gigs of memory, and flash the BIOS and you will have a
        >> screaming machine.
        >
        >> What a bunch of shit that is.
        >
        > Your reply is neither helpful nor well-thought out. Just because
        > someone has a large drive in their laptop does not mean that they
        > don't have it backed up somewhere, so your assumption that they will
        > lose all their data if their disk goes kaput is just silly.
        >
        > Second, Kris didn't say his data is important.
        >
        > Third, the point of having a laptop is mobility. There is no point in
        > having a laptop if you have to carry around your desktop or external
        > drives to get at your data.
        >
        > Or maybe I'm just a foolish person, like almost everyone I know who
        > uses their laptop as their primary computing platform.

        I agree. At home every morning I do a backup (dump) from the laptop to
        a desktop and via the internet to New York University, where I teach.
        Those days when I go to work, I do an additional backup to NYU and often
        a third to both sites when I come home. All these are performed
        partition to partition on the laptop in single user mode and then the
        directory containing the dumps is rsync'ed to the desktop(s) in
        multiuser mode. Plus I have a cron job that does an rsync of the
        live filesystem.

        I find it very convenient to have all my data with me at both sites.

        allan
      • Jim Diamond
        ... Have you considered Unison? I ve been using that for a while, with good success. On the days when I go in to my university (Acadia), I often work from my
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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          On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:14 (-0500), Allan Gottlieb wrote:

          > At Sun, 14 Dec 2008 11:39:21 -0400 Jim Diamond <zsd@...> wrote:

          >> On Sat, Dec 13, 2008 at 22:17 (-0800), Ardell Faul wrote:

          ...snipped...

          >>> What a bunch of shit that is.

          >> Your reply is neither helpful nor well-thought out. Just because
          >> someone has a large drive in their laptop does not mean that they
          >> don't have it backed up somewhere, so your assumption that they will
          >> lose all their data if their disk goes kaput is just silly.

          >> Second, Kris didn't say his data is important.

          >> Third, the point of having a laptop is mobility. There is no point in
          >> having a laptop if you have to carry around your desktop or external
          >> drives to get at your data.

          >> Or maybe I'm just a foolish person, like almost everyone I know who
          >> uses their laptop as their primary computing platform.

          > I agree. At home every morning I do a backup (dump) from the laptop to
          > a desktop and via the internet to New York University, where I teach.
          > Those days when I go to work, I do an additional backup to NYU and often
          > a third to both sites when I come home. All these are performed
          > partition to partition on the laptop in single user mode and then the
          > directory containing the dumps is rsync'ed to the desktop(s) in
          > multiuser mode. Plus I have a cron job that does an rsync of the
          > live filesystem.

          > I find it very convenient to have all my data with me at both sites.

          Have you considered Unison? I've been using that for a while, with
          good success. On the days when I go in to my university (Acadia), I
          often work from my desktop, which means my updates need to be done
          bi-directionally, which Unison handles nicely.

          And when at home, I "backup" to another laptop there with Unison.

          Ardell's comment that "having all of your valuable data only on your
          laptop is dangerous" (which was part of what I snipped out) is quite
          valid, it is too bad that he chose to phrase it in the way he did.
          Regardless of how the message was delivered, at the risk of sounding
          preachy, I encourage all of you to realize that it is not "if" your
          disk goes bad, it is "when". You might be thinking that "it has never
          happened to me", but there are a lot of people who *used to* think the
          exact same way. At my university, all of the students have had
          laptops for something like the last 10 or 12 years. And as much as
          you can warn people about not abusing their laptop and backing up
          their data, there are always a few who find out the hard way that
          disks occasionally fail.

          Cheers.
          Jim
        • Allan Gottlieb
          ... I don t see much different. I plug my monitor and keyboard/mouse into the laptop; every hour my files are rsync ed to the desktop and I have the single
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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            At Sun, 14 Dec 2008 12:26:37 -0400 Jim Diamond <zsd@...> wrote:

            > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 11:14 (-0500), Allan Gottlieb wrote:
            >
            >> I agree. At home every morning I do a backup (dump) from the laptop to
            >> a desktop and via the internet to New York University, where I teach.
            >> Those days when I go to work, I do an additional backup to NYU and often
            >> a third to both sites when I come home. All these are performed
            >> partition to partition on the laptop in single user mode and then the
            >> directory containing the dumps is rsync'ed to the desktop(s) in
            >> multiuser mode. Plus I have a cron job that does an rsync of the
            >> live filesystem.
            >
            >> I find it very convenient to have all my data with me at both sites.
            >
            > Have you considered Unison? I've been using that for a while, with
            > good success. On the days when I go in to my university (Acadia), I
            > often work from my desktop, which means my updates need to be done
            > bi-directionally, which Unison handles nicely.

            I don't see much different. I plug my monitor and keyboard/mouse into
            the laptop; every hour my files are rsync'ed to the desktop and I have
            the single user dumps one or more times a day that are also on desktops

            > And when at home, I "backup" to another laptop there with Unison.
            >
            > Ardell's comment that "having all of your valuable data only on your
            > laptop is dangerous" (which was part of what I snipped out) is quite
            > valid, it is too bad that he chose to phrase it in the way he did.
            > Regardless of how the message was delivered, at the risk of sounding
            > preachy, I encourage all of you to realize that it is not "if" your
            > disk goes bad, it is "when".

            I agree and *when* my laptop disk went bad a year ago, nyu loaned me
            another laptop while I ordered a replacement. My dumps were valid and I
            lost no data.

            I am not arguing against keeping the master copy on a desktop or server,
            just that the "primary laptop" is viable as well.

            allan
          • bil
            I remember reading some battery performanace tests, from Phronix I think, that said 5200 rpm provided better life and the read write performace was not much
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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              I remember reading some battery performanace tests, from Phronix I think, that
              said 5200 rpm provided better life and the read write performace was not much
              slower then 7200 rpm with larger disks since the data is packed so close
              together on the disk platter. They also did not see any battery life
              increase with solid state drives.

              On Saturday 13 December 2008 11:20:19 pm kiyer25 wrote:
              > Hi all,
              >
              > My 80 GB 7200 rpm internal hard drive (hitachi) died (just 3 year and 1
              > month). I would like to buy a internal hard drive which is reliable and
              > best one with reasonable price as well.
              >
              > I am looking for 160 GB with 5400 or 7200 hard drive.
              >
              > It is IDE 2.5, ata 100, 8MB buffer. Really appreciate suggestion and
              > any inputs to buy a new approbriate internal hard drive for my DELL800.
              >
              > Thanks a lot
              >
              > cheers
              > kris
            • Jim Diamond
              ... The specs I read from the manufacturers indicated the newer generation 7200 s were no more power hungry than the older 5400 s. I didn t look and see if
              Message 6 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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                On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 15:59 (-0600), bil wrote:

                > I remember reading some battery performanace tests, from Phronix I
                > think, that said 5200 rpm provided better life
                The specs I read from the manufacturers indicated the newer generation
                7200's were no more power hungry than the older 5400's. I didn't look
                and see if the newer 5400's (if there were any at the time) were
                different than the old 5400's (it wouldn't be surprising if the were
                better).

                > and the read write performace was not much slower then 7200 rpm with
                > larger disks since the data is packed so close together on the disk
                > platter.
                ? If the disks have the same density, the 7200 RPM one should read
                72/54 times as fast once the reading/writing starts, no?

                Cheers.
                Jim
              • Alexandre Lymberopoulos
                Almost totally agree with Ardell, but it depends on the computing needs of a person. I m in the low profile side, since I don t have multi core cpus to do all
                Message 7 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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                  Almost totally agree with Ardell, but it depends on the computing
                  needs of a person. I'm in the low profile side, since I don't have
                  multi core cpus to do all the "simple" computing I do.

                  And a personal advice: *do* backup all of your valuable data.

                  []s, lymber
                  --
                  ===============================================================================
                  Alexandre Lymberopoulos - lymber@...
                  ===============================================================================
                • Allan Gottlieb
                  ... Sure, but for modest blocksizes the transfer time you mention is less than either the seek time or rotational latency. Rotational latency for 7200 would be
                  Message 8 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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                    At Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:13:05 -0400 Jim Diamond <zsd@...> wrote:

                    > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 15:59 (-0600), bil wrote:
                    >
                    >> I remember reading some battery performanace tests, from Phronix I
                    >> think, that said 5200 rpm provided better life
                    > The specs I read from the manufacturers indicated the newer generation
                    > 7200's were no more power hungry than the older 5400's. I didn't look
                    > and see if the newer 5400's (if there were any at the time) were
                    > different than the old 5400's (it wouldn't be surprising if the were
                    > better).
                    >
                    >> and the read write performace was not much slower then 7200 rpm with
                    >> larger disks since the data is packed so close together on the disk
                    >> platter.
                    > ? If the disks have the same density, the 7200 RPM one should read
                    > 72/54 times as fast once the reading/writing starts, no?

                    Sure, but for modest blocksizes the transfer time you mention is less
                    than either the seek time or rotational latency.
                    Rotational latency for 7200 would be only 54/72 that of a 5400
                    (analogous to your point about transfer time).

                    allan
                  • Peter Fork
                    Hi I know they aren t cheep but what about a slid state drive (SSD) they are getting lower and lower in price buy the month and their are even a few of them
                    Message 9 of 12 , Dec 14, 2008
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                      Hi
                      I know they aren't cheep but what about a slid state drive (SSD) they are getting lower and lower in price buy the month and their are even a few of them that support PATA 100 as well. I would say the 128GB modells are resonably priced. You need to install drivers etc offcourse but if you are willing to open your laptop with a screwdriver you probably can fix that too.

                      Go to a shooping site and search for good prices on a flash drive its the future anyway.
                      \Peter

                      --- Den sön 2008-12-14 skrev Ardell Faul <ardell@...>:

                      > Från: Ardell Faul <ardell@...>
                      > Ämne: Re: [linux-dell-laptops] internal hard drive DELL800 latitude
                      > Till: linux-dell-laptops@yahoogroups.com
                      > Datum: söndag 14 december 2008 07.17
                      > For what it's worth, I see a lot of failed hard drives
                      > in the laptop
                      > repair business, and my experience has been that the drives
                      > most prone
                      > to fail are the ones over 100Gbyte. In fact, I don't
                      > think I have ever
                      > had to replace a drive in the 40 to 80 Gbyte range. And
                      > almost without
                      > exception, the drives I see in laptops almost never have
                      > anything like
                      > even 40 gbytes of data in them. Anybody who downloads and
                      > carrys around
                      > 160 Gbytes worth of important data in a laptop is being
                      > foolish. Very
                      > foolish. They are just asking for it, and they usually get
                      > it. I don't
                      > understand why anybody would even WANT to put a very large
                      > hard drive in
                      > a laptop. If you want to collect a lot of music or video,
                      > an external
                      > backup drive or a desktop drive is a much more sane choice.
                      > It is just
                      > plain stupid to carry around a laptop with a lot of data
                      > stored in the
                      > hard drive. One slip of the hand, or a good solid thump
                      > under the area
                      > where the hard drive is, and you can kiss all your data
                      > goodbye.
                      >
                      > I guess it is the Geek Squad blurb, you know--put in a 160
                      > Gbyte hard
                      > drive, 2 gigs of memory, and flash the BIOS and you will
                      > have a
                      > screaming machine.
                      >
                      > What a bunch of shit that is.
                      >
                      > Ardell Faul
                      > Computer Monitor Service Inc.
                      > Ardell's Laptop and PC Repair
                      > 10816 E. Mission Ave.,
                      > Spokane Valley, Wa. 99206
                      > ardell@...
                      > 509-891-5188
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > kiyer25 wrote:
                      >
                      > > Hi all,
                      > >
                      > > My 80 GB 7200 rpm internal hard drive (hitachi) died
                      > (just 3 year and 1
                      > > month). I would like to buy a internal hard drive
                      > which is reliable and
                      > > best one with reasonable price as well.
                      > >
                      > > I am looking for 160 GB with 5400 or 7200 hard drive.
                      > >
                      > > It is IDE 2.5, ata 100, 8MB buffer. Really appreciate
                      > suggestion and
                      > > any inputs to buy a new approbriate internal hard
                      > drive for my DELL800.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks a lot
                      > >
                      > > cheers
                      > > kris
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
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