Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Next distro?

Expand Messages
  • Sword King
    Apparently I have way less experience with Linux and even computers than you guys, but I easily solved the problems you are discussing on my Inspiron 1100
    Message 1 of 19 , May 24 6:21 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      Apparently I have way less experience with Linux and even computers
      than you guys, but I easily solved the problems you are discussing on
      my Inspiron 1100 (Xubuntu Feisty) by creating a shortcut to a root
      terminal in X, thereby alleviating the need to 'sudo'. It's usually
      one of the first things I start when I fire it up, cuz I like to play
      around way more than is necessary to get work done.:) For example, I
      go there and use aptitude to update or install software.

      I also made a shortcut to open Nautilus as root, so I can go poking
      around in places I shouldn't be allowed, and found a way to insert a
      context menu item "Open as Root". Needless to say, I don't remember
      how I did these things, but they are beneficial.

      SK

      --- In linux-dell-laptops@yahoogroups.com, ken <gebser@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 05/23/2007 01:51 PM somebody named Douglas S. Oliver wrote:
      > > ken wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >>> I just made a couple of little tweaks, for example I made a root
      > >>> account so I could su - and not have to sudo for all my work.
      Sudo is
      > >>> fine and safer, but if I need to run a number of programs that
      need
      > >>> root access, it's easier to simply become root. To do that, I
      simply
      > >>> needed to make a root password. I used: sudo passwd and entered
      the
      > >>> new password when prompted--really easy.
      >
      > Given the below, this is a good thing to know about Ubuntu. I too
      spend
      > quite a bit of time as root, so much so that I perpetually have a
      > terminal window logged into root so I can jump to it, run a few or
      a few
      > dozen commands, and then get back to what I was doing previously. I
      > couldn't see having to type a passphrase that often and would think
      that
      > it could actually be *less* secure in some circumstances.
      >
      >
      > >> Every linux distro I've ever installed (dozens... going back to
      kernel
      > >> v.0.9.13) always required creating a root password as part of the
      > >> initial install of the system. (?)
      > >
      > > Well this is one of the interesting surprises with Ubuntu. At set
      up and
      > > install, you're only asked for a personal password--NOT root.
      That's why
      > > everything has to be done via sudo. It took me a second to
      realize what
      > > I needed to do. Once I set up a true root password, I was all set
      to go.
      >
      > If I go with Ubuntu, I'll be doing the same
      >
      >
      > >>> Because I often prefer to use a text console with my favorite
      > >>> programs, I had to install the programs that don't typically
      come
      > >>> with X. For example, vim, joe. As far as I know, all the usual
      > >>> compiling programs are there by default, and if not, they're
      easy to
      > >>> install. It is not easy to boot directly into a text console.
      > >> Do you mean boot up *not* into the GUI...? so that you have
      just a
      > >> black and white screen with a CLI prompt?
      > >
      > > Yup.
      > >
      > >>> You have to remove the gdm boot script from the rc3 folder (I'm
      on a
      > >
      > > That's remove the /etc/rc3.d/S13gdm soft linked file. Ubuntu
      basically
      > > copies or links all the rcX.d files to the same place. This means
      that
      > > if you want to force a cli or tui, you need to telinit 1. Of
      course, if
      > > I'm correct, you then do not have the multi user protections
      present in
      > > run level 3. Stopping the gui from loading makes it kind of like
      RedHat
      > > run level 3, which is how I first learned to use Linux in 1998. I
      first
      > > started using computers in 1976 pre dos days, so I don't shy away
      from a
      > > B/W terminal.
      >
      > The standard way to do this has always been to edit /etc/inittab,
      > changing the line
      >
      > id:5:initdefault:
      >
      > to
      >
      > id:3:initdefault:
      >
      > (changing the runlevel from "5" to "3").
      >
      > Does Ubuntu deviate from this tradition/standard also?
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Take care, Douglas
      >
      > Good talking with you,
      > ken
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      > "This world ain't big enough for the both of us,"
      > said the big noema to the little noema.
      >
    • Douglas S. Oliver
      ... Actually, what you have done is not really related to what I was discussing. Also, Xubuntu is a bit of a different beast. In straight Ubuntu, one doesn t
      Message 2 of 19 , May 25 2:20 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Sword King wrote:
        > Apparently I have way less experience with Linux and even computers
        > than you guys, but I easily solved the problems you are discussing on
        > my Inspiron 1100 (Xubuntu Feisty) by creating a shortcut to a root
        > terminal in X, thereby alleviating the need to 'sudo'. It's usually
        > one of the first things I start when I fire it up, cuz I like to play
        > around way more than is necessary to get work done.:) For example, I
        > go there and use aptitude to update or install software.
        >
        > I also made a shortcut to open Nautilus as root, so I can go poking
        > around in places I shouldn't be allowed, and found a way to insert a
        > context menu item "Open as Root". Needless to say, I don't remember
        > how I did these things, but they are beneficial.
        >
        > SK
        >

        Actually, what you have done is not really related to what I was
        discussing. Also, Xubuntu is a bit of a different beast. In straight
        Ubuntu, one doesn't really need to become root to install and modify
        programs. In fact for lack of a root password, there is no true
        linux/unix root account. Instead the users are added to the sudoers
        account/group. Sudoers are given root privileges through their own login
        password. What do I mean when I say there is no true root account? It's
        not possible to login as root out of the box. That's because that would
        require a root password. What you have done, SK, is cool, but at some
        point you had to give a password. I'm guessing you used your login
        password, not a root password. For me now, with a root password, I open
        an xterm and switch to root with the "su -" command and give the root
        password. Su means switch user, and the dash means switch to that
        account. You'll notice that your account is located at /home/<your
        username>/, whereas, the root account is located at /root/. The
        difference is this, if I simply type su and the root password, I remain
        in whatever folder I was in when I entered the su command. I also don't
        inherit root's settings for the display and such. The dash says to
        switch user and inherit that user's settings. This is a subtle but
        important difference.

        One of the main issues I was discussing related to working without X,
        i.e, no gui. I think that everything you've done here SK still remains
        within X. Ubuntu normally only allows you to work in either traditional
        linux/unix run level 1--single user mode, or traditional level
        4--multiuser graphical mode. Level 1 is a single user text console mode,
        but not the traditional multiuser text mode of run level 3. SK, type
        this: telinit 1 <enter> to see what run level one is like. To return to
        the gui, simply type telinit 4 <enter>. Keep hacking, and please share
        with us how you did your cool shortcuts. --D

        --

        ******

        Douglas S. Oliver

        "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
        and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

        "....What right do I have to think?" --Ugarte, December 1941

        ******
      • John DeCarlo
        Ken and Doug, Using apt is much easier and more reliable than using rpm. Trust me, I used rpm and Red Hat for decades. When I switched to Ubuntu last year, I
        Message 3 of 19 , May 25 7:14 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Ken and Doug,

          Using apt is much easier and more reliable than using rpm.  Trust me, I used rpm and Red Hat for decades.  When I switched to Ubuntu last year, I was delightfully amazed at how much I had been missing while using rpm.

          Booting to single user mode is very easy - When you are booting the machine, type "e" at the grub menu and add a "1" to the boot line.  The other option is to kill gdm or kdm to avoid rebooting.

          apt supports downloading and compiling source as well as binary.  Typically repositories have both a "deb" and "deb-src" equivalent, depending on what you want to do.  When using the right tools to install from "deb-src", it will run the install script and compile and make and configure for you.

          Ubuntu is very much a "free" distribution.  So they don't install "non-free" stuff by default (like MP3 support, or DVD play via libdvdcss).  But "Feisty" makes it very easy to install those capabilities when you need them.  The first time you try to play an MP3 file, it will ask you if you want to install MP3 support, even if it is non-free.

          As for changing networks, Ubuntu Feisty comes with networkmanager, allowing you to see what networks are accessible and choose one to connect to.  I haven't used it that much, though, so I don't have step-by-step.  Just look in the menu under Internet.

          Feisty is also very good at hardware detection, and most things "just work" out of the box on laptops nowadays.

          Hope this helps.


        • Gilbert Mendoza
          ... Hash: SHA1 I hate to add to an already long thread, but ... Just because the root account is not given a password during the installation process, doesn t
          Message 4 of 19 , May 25 1:19 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
            Hash: SHA1


            I hate to add to an already long thread, but ...

            Just because the root account is not given a password during the
            installation process, doesn't mean it does not exist. The root
            account has simply been "locked", and most certainly does exist.
            (check out "man passwd" for the "-l" option).

            "sudo -i" and "sudo -s" are two very easy ways to run any
            prolonged root shell without enabling the root account, exposing
            it to local and remote dictionary or brute force password
            attacks. That is unless of course a sudoer user doesn't have a
            weak password. :-P But that's another topic. (the -i will drop
            you to the /root/ directory, and -s will leave you in your own
            /home/user/ directory. See "man sudo".)

            Elevating user privileges on a need-only basis is considered an
            industry wide best practice and is generally accepted by most
            experienced administrators.

            Changing to runlevel 1 (single user mode) just to gain a root
            shell is NOT what one should do if they simply wish to gain root
            access. Runlevel 1 actually stops many services according to
            their init level configurations, and is typically used when
            performing maintenance, troubleshooting, or system recovery.


            As for the default runlevels, Ubuntu moved to "Upstart" which
            doesn't use /etc/inittab, but still evaluates it if you create
            one. (see /etc/event.d/) If one wishes to not use the graphical
            logon manager "GDM", they can simply

            a) remove the symlinks in /etc/rcX.d
            (sudo update-rc.d -f gdm remove)

            b) remove gdm altogether (sudo apt-get remove gdm). This of
            course is a dependency of the ubuntu-desktop meta-package,but if
            you are already comfortable with using a console only, who
            cares.

            c) or even remove just one of the gdm rcX.d scripts, and
            designate that runlevel of your choice as being a non-graphical
            multiuser. To be thorough, you can add a corresponding "K13gdm"
            symlink, so that switching back and forth between this runlevel
            will stop gdm accordingly.
            i.e.
            cd /etc/rc2.d
            sudo rm S13gdm
            sudo ln -s ../init.d/gdm K13gdm

            For regular use of the console, you may also want change your
            frame buffer size to a higher resolution to 1024x768 or higher by
            editing /boot/grub/menu.lst.
            i.e. add "vga=791" to the defoptions variable:
            # defoptions=quiet splash vga=791


            Anyway, hope this is useful for you folks.

            GM
            -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
            Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

            iQEVAwUBRldCqZmBPgq+AK/PAQKgPQgAinYCHTkYfaSocJpFLeOxqC7Voz0p9cwc
            w131d3+uWciDoUrj2AG4jlUMJQalK5y4iAzzru35aomg0I+GUWIUcSAHw8gAyjZr
            MkDFTxyyXkbhybnJPeu8D0mtN7RA0e97JtUKqYhzY8vYy5j7n0TK42QpvPZvMUV/
            zqlH9d9W/SAQZXpwKN7A8aF2YJsqkNjWfW3ozyQk/lTc1DfBpfyLSByv0VkTmqAr
            ygmuPkur5Vr7VqMAbumoZhOpBbuVzPIiwAoKuVAAdAM7/uxTS3sR1gCyYDXX173J
            0DFxcKfLfl7IbbnuCIKzf2Xk962lW6LbjQAjTnJ9XW9s0SCeC3aufQ==
            =y0Xu
            -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




            ____________________________________________________________________________________Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
            http://farechase.yahoo.com/
          • Douglas S. Oliver
            ... Hash: SHA1 ... Thanks much, Gilbert. This is really useful information. Am I right in thinking that sudo -i and sudo -s are a little like the difference
            Message 5 of 19 , May 25 2:52 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
              Hash: SHA1

              Gilbert Mendoza wrote:
              >
              > I hate to add to an already long thread, but ...
              >
              > Just because the root account is not given a password during the
              > installation process, doesn't mean it does not exist. The root
              > account has simply been "locked", and most certainly does exist.
              > (check out "man passwd" for the "-l" option).
              >

              Thanks much, Gilbert. This is really useful information. Am I right in
              thinking that sudo -i and sudo -s are a little like the difference
              between having a root password and using "su <enter> and <password
              enter>" and "su - <enter> and <password enter>? The difference here
              being the added safety of using sudo and staying out of the root
              account. I've been using linux for almost 10 years but am a relative new
              comer to sudo. A few years ago I was studying for my RHSE cert. At that
              time we were warned to watch out for users using sudo when they had weak
              passwords, as you have said. That's why I stayed away from it till now
              with Ubuntu. Not because of a weak password, but because it was easy to
              use su when and only when I needed to become root. I made an rm error as
              root once on my system. Trashed everything! I just needed to do that
              once to become respectful of becoming root. Thanks again--Douglas

              - --

              ******

              Douglas S. Oliver

              "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
              and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

              "....What right do I have to think?" --Ugarte, December 1941

              ******
              -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
              Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
              Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

              iD8DBQFGV1qvGtLw/+nYp8ERAvceAKCEYa2UdCxJRnQeD+OtisJDL5A9pgCggKcm
              uJQC0BLb0Ycqf3xs+pAoDIc=
              =ZfM+
              -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
            • Gilbert Mendoza
              ... Hash: SHA1 No problem at all. You are correct regarding similarities between su , su - , sudo -i and -s. su - and sudo -i elevate privileges to root
              Message 6 of 19 , May 25 4:58 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                Hash: SHA1


                No problem at all.

                You are correct regarding similarities between "su", "su -",
                sudo -i and -s.

                "su -" and "sudo -i" elevate privileges to root and use the shell
                environment for the root user in /etc/passwd. you will notice by
                issuing a 'pwd' command, you are placed in the /root directory.

                "su" and "sudo -s" elevate privileges to root and use the shell
                environment of the user running the command. So, you will stay
                in /home/user, and any bash aliases, etc, will remain intact.

                There are many advantages in using sudo vs. su, but primarily it
                comes down to the granularity of control one has in limiting what
                sudoer's can do with their privileges. For instance, with sudo
                you can allow a user (or group of users) to to run a small set of
                commands with root privileges, without granting access to more
                sensitive functions.

                Have a great weekend...

                GM

                -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
                Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

                iD8DBQFGV3b2BZd5UQddvKkRAmwZAJ44mKr8x1z69RrZjBMjGrYtkLGIpACgu0hz
                No4m+xJgGwBjUrKvDA+oc30=
                =dzqI
                -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



                --- "Douglas S. Oliver" <dsoliver@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks much, Gilbert. This is really useful information. Am I right in
                > thinking that sudo -i and sudo -s are a little like the difference
                > between having a root password and using "su <enter> and <password
                > enter>" and "su - <enter> and <password enter>? The difference here
                > being the added safety of using sudo and staying out of the root
                > account. I've been using linux for almost 10 years but am a relative new
                > comer to sudo. A few years ago I was studying for my RHSE cert. At that
                > time we were warned to watch out for users using sudo when they had weak
                > passwords, as you have said. That's why I stayed away from it till now
                > with Ubuntu. Not because of a weak password, but because it was easy to
                > use su when and only when I needed to become root. I made an rm error as
                > root once on my system. Trashed everything! I just needed to do that
                > once to become respectful of becoming root. Thanks again--Douglas
                >




                ____________________________________________________________________________________
                Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
              • Lamar Owen
                ... While there is nothing wrong (and a lot right) with apt, let s compare apples to apples here. The raw rpm command is equivalent to the raw dpkg command.
                Message 7 of 19 , May 25 8:18 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  On Friday 25 May 2007, John DeCarlo wrote:
                  > Using apt is much easier and more reliable than using rpm. Trust me, I
                  > used rpm and Red Hat for decades. When I switched to Ubuntu last year, I
                  > was delightfully amazed at how much I had been missing while using rpm.

                  While there is nothing wrong (and a lot right) with apt, let's compare apples
                  to apples here. The raw rpm command is equivalent to the raw dpkg command.
                  The equivalent command to apt in a Debian-inspired distribution on, say, a
                  Fedora Core installation, is 'yum'. You do that same sorts of things: 'yum
                  install kshisen' will pull in any needed RPM's from the repository, exactly
                  like 'apt-get install kshisen' would.

                  Now, with Ubuntu or plain Debian you will get a substantially larger
                  repository of software available; and it's not as fractured as the typical
                  RPM third party repositories are. But that has nothing to do with the tools
                  that are available.

                  I've been evaluating Kubuntu 7.04 in a virtual machine for a week or so, and I
                  like most of what I see. The biggest thing is the unified repository. The
                  second biggest thing is that the gnuradio and usrp packages are 'just there'
                  in that repository, whereas getting RPM's of same is difficult. However, I
                  find that adept-installer is just about as slow as pirut (GUI yum frontend on
                  Fedora Core 5 and above), and that's with identical hardware. Now,
                  adept-manager is quite a bit better.

                  Incidentally, there is an apt version for RPM-based systems. You can even get
                  synaptic on Fedora Core if you'd like.

                  I'm using Fedora Core 6 here on an Inspiron 640m, and most things work fine
                  (no headphones is an annoyance, but the sound does at least play; I haven't
                  worked much on the wireless, but that's a low priority for me; LCD backlight
                  control with Fn-UP or Fn-DOWN isn't working, etc).
                  --
                  Lamar Owen
                  Chief Information Officer
                  Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute
                  1 PARI Drive
                  Rosman, NC 28772
                  (828)862-5554
                  www.pari.edu
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.