Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [linux-dell-laptops] Next distro?

Expand Messages
  • ken
    ... Wow! Thanks for the explanation. Ubuntu s too weird for me, too far off from unix. The search goes on. -- This world ain t big enough for the both of
    Message 1 of 19 , May 24, 2007
      On 05/24/2007 11:51 AM somebody named Douglas S. Oliver wrote:
      > ken wrote:
      >> On 05/23/2007 01:51 PM somebody named Douglas S. Oliver wrote:
      >>> ken wrote:
      >>>>> B/W terminal.
      >> The standard way to do this has always been to edit /etc/inittab,
      >> changing the line
      >
      >> id:5:initdefault:
      >
      >> to
      >
      >> id:3:initdefault:
      >
      >> (changing the runlevel from "5" to "3").
      >
      >> Does Ubuntu deviate from this tradition/standard also?
      >
      > The answer is a simple yes. This is what I was trying to say, though
      > clumsily, when I said that everything except run level one is linked to
      > run level four or five. For example, if you telinit to run level 3, you
      > wind up back at the initial gui log in screen. The same is true if you
      > use <ctrl><alt><backspace>, which would normally kill your gui session
      > and drop you at a text terminal. You might be met with an admonishment
      > that "only root can to that." Ubuntu is really set up for folks used to
      > MS Windows. New linux users should normally stay away from acting as the
      > root user. There's simply too much power there; however, for an
      > experienced linux user, being forced to stay away from becoming root, is
      > an annoyance. And I should say that my Ubuntu 7.04 has no inittab file.
      > I think an earlier version did have that file, and I tried changing the
      > initdefault which because of the soft linking business, had no effect. I
      > think a while back I tried teliniting to run level one and then using
      > startx to get an X session. From there I could use
      > <ctrl><alt><backspace> to pop out of the gui to the terminal. Silly way
      > to do this. That's when I learned from a web search about the disabling
      > the gdm in rc3.d. Anyway, it's been fun to play with this newcomer on
      > the block. Talk to you later--Douglas

      Wow! Thanks for the explanation. Ubuntu's too weird for me, too far
      off from unix. The search goes on.

      --
      "This world ain't big enough for the both of us,"
      said the big noema to the little noema.
    • Sword King
      Apparently I have way less experience with Linux and even computers than you guys, but I easily solved the problems you are discussing on my Inspiron 1100
      Message 2 of 19 , May 24, 2007
        Apparently I have way less experience with Linux and even computers
        than you guys, but I easily solved the problems you are discussing on
        my Inspiron 1100 (Xubuntu Feisty) by creating a shortcut to a root
        terminal in X, thereby alleviating the need to 'sudo'. It's usually
        one of the first things I start when I fire it up, cuz I like to play
        around way more than is necessary to get work done.:) For example, I
        go there and use aptitude to update or install software.

        I also made a shortcut to open Nautilus as root, so I can go poking
        around in places I shouldn't be allowed, and found a way to insert a
        context menu item "Open as Root". Needless to say, I don't remember
        how I did these things, but they are beneficial.

        SK

        --- In linux-dell-laptops@yahoogroups.com, ken <gebser@...> wrote:
        >
        > On 05/23/2007 01:51 PM somebody named Douglas S. Oliver wrote:
        > > ken wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > >>> I just made a couple of little tweaks, for example I made a root
        > >>> account so I could su - and not have to sudo for all my work.
        Sudo is
        > >>> fine and safer, but if I need to run a number of programs that
        need
        > >>> root access, it's easier to simply become root. To do that, I
        simply
        > >>> needed to make a root password. I used: sudo passwd and entered
        the
        > >>> new password when prompted--really easy.
        >
        > Given the below, this is a good thing to know about Ubuntu. I too
        spend
        > quite a bit of time as root, so much so that I perpetually have a
        > terminal window logged into root so I can jump to it, run a few or
        a few
        > dozen commands, and then get back to what I was doing previously. I
        > couldn't see having to type a passphrase that often and would think
        that
        > it could actually be *less* secure in some circumstances.
        >
        >
        > >> Every linux distro I've ever installed (dozens... going back to
        kernel
        > >> v.0.9.13) always required creating a root password as part of the
        > >> initial install of the system. (?)
        > >
        > > Well this is one of the interesting surprises with Ubuntu. At set
        up and
        > > install, you're only asked for a personal password--NOT root.
        That's why
        > > everything has to be done via sudo. It took me a second to
        realize what
        > > I needed to do. Once I set up a true root password, I was all set
        to go.
        >
        > If I go with Ubuntu, I'll be doing the same
        >
        >
        > >>> Because I often prefer to use a text console with my favorite
        > >>> programs, I had to install the programs that don't typically
        come
        > >>> with X. For example, vim, joe. As far as I know, all the usual
        > >>> compiling programs are there by default, and if not, they're
        easy to
        > >>> install. It is not easy to boot directly into a text console.
        > >> Do you mean boot up *not* into the GUI...? so that you have
        just a
        > >> black and white screen with a CLI prompt?
        > >
        > > Yup.
        > >
        > >>> You have to remove the gdm boot script from the rc3 folder (I'm
        on a
        > >
        > > That's remove the /etc/rc3.d/S13gdm soft linked file. Ubuntu
        basically
        > > copies or links all the rcX.d files to the same place. This means
        that
        > > if you want to force a cli or tui, you need to telinit 1. Of
        course, if
        > > I'm correct, you then do not have the multi user protections
        present in
        > > run level 3. Stopping the gui from loading makes it kind of like
        RedHat
        > > run level 3, which is how I first learned to use Linux in 1998. I
        first
        > > started using computers in 1976 pre dos days, so I don't shy away
        from a
        > > B/W terminal.
        >
        > The standard way to do this has always been to edit /etc/inittab,
        > changing the line
        >
        > id:5:initdefault:
        >
        > to
        >
        > id:3:initdefault:
        >
        > (changing the runlevel from "5" to "3").
        >
        > Does Ubuntu deviate from this tradition/standard also?
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Take care, Douglas
        >
        > Good talking with you,
        > ken
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > "This world ain't big enough for the both of us,"
        > said the big noema to the little noema.
        >
      • Douglas S. Oliver
        ... Actually, what you have done is not really related to what I was discussing. Also, Xubuntu is a bit of a different beast. In straight Ubuntu, one doesn t
        Message 3 of 19 , May 25, 2007
          Sword King wrote:
          > Apparently I have way less experience with Linux and even computers
          > than you guys, but I easily solved the problems you are discussing on
          > my Inspiron 1100 (Xubuntu Feisty) by creating a shortcut to a root
          > terminal in X, thereby alleviating the need to 'sudo'. It's usually
          > one of the first things I start when I fire it up, cuz I like to play
          > around way more than is necessary to get work done.:) For example, I
          > go there and use aptitude to update or install software.
          >
          > I also made a shortcut to open Nautilus as root, so I can go poking
          > around in places I shouldn't be allowed, and found a way to insert a
          > context menu item "Open as Root". Needless to say, I don't remember
          > how I did these things, but they are beneficial.
          >
          > SK
          >

          Actually, what you have done is not really related to what I was
          discussing. Also, Xubuntu is a bit of a different beast. In straight
          Ubuntu, one doesn't really need to become root to install and modify
          programs. In fact for lack of a root password, there is no true
          linux/unix root account. Instead the users are added to the sudoers
          account/group. Sudoers are given root privileges through their own login
          password. What do I mean when I say there is no true root account? It's
          not possible to login as root out of the box. That's because that would
          require a root password. What you have done, SK, is cool, but at some
          point you had to give a password. I'm guessing you used your login
          password, not a root password. For me now, with a root password, I open
          an xterm and switch to root with the "su -" command and give the root
          password. Su means switch user, and the dash means switch to that
          account. You'll notice that your account is located at /home/<your
          username>/, whereas, the root account is located at /root/. The
          difference is this, if I simply type su and the root password, I remain
          in whatever folder I was in when I entered the su command. I also don't
          inherit root's settings for the display and such. The dash says to
          switch user and inherit that user's settings. This is a subtle but
          important difference.

          One of the main issues I was discussing related to working without X,
          i.e, no gui. I think that everything you've done here SK still remains
          within X. Ubuntu normally only allows you to work in either traditional
          linux/unix run level 1--single user mode, or traditional level
          4--multiuser graphical mode. Level 1 is a single user text console mode,
          but not the traditional multiuser text mode of run level 3. SK, type
          this: telinit 1 <enter> to see what run level one is like. To return to
          the gui, simply type telinit 4 <enter>. Keep hacking, and please share
          with us how you did your cool shortcuts. --D

          --

          ******

          Douglas S. Oliver

          "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
          and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

          "....What right do I have to think?" --Ugarte, December 1941

          ******
        • John DeCarlo
          Ken and Doug, Using apt is much easier and more reliable than using rpm. Trust me, I used rpm and Red Hat for decades. When I switched to Ubuntu last year, I
          Message 4 of 19 , May 25, 2007
            Ken and Doug,

            Using apt is much easier and more reliable than using rpm.  Trust me, I used rpm and Red Hat for decades.  When I switched to Ubuntu last year, I was delightfully amazed at how much I had been missing while using rpm.

            Booting to single user mode is very easy - When you are booting the machine, type "e" at the grub menu and add a "1" to the boot line.  The other option is to kill gdm or kdm to avoid rebooting.

            apt supports downloading and compiling source as well as binary.  Typically repositories have both a "deb" and "deb-src" equivalent, depending on what you want to do.  When using the right tools to install from "deb-src", it will run the install script and compile and make and configure for you.

            Ubuntu is very much a "free" distribution.  So they don't install "non-free" stuff by default (like MP3 support, or DVD play via libdvdcss).  But "Feisty" makes it very easy to install those capabilities when you need them.  The first time you try to play an MP3 file, it will ask you if you want to install MP3 support, even if it is non-free.

            As for changing networks, Ubuntu Feisty comes with networkmanager, allowing you to see what networks are accessible and choose one to connect to.  I haven't used it that much, though, so I don't have step-by-step.  Just look in the menu under Internet.

            Feisty is also very good at hardware detection, and most things "just work" out of the box on laptops nowadays.

            Hope this helps.


          • Gilbert Mendoza
            ... Hash: SHA1 I hate to add to an already long thread, but ... Just because the root account is not given a password during the installation process, doesn t
            Message 5 of 19 , May 25, 2007
              -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
              Hash: SHA1


              I hate to add to an already long thread, but ...

              Just because the root account is not given a password during the
              installation process, doesn't mean it does not exist. The root
              account has simply been "locked", and most certainly does exist.
              (check out "man passwd" for the "-l" option).

              "sudo -i" and "sudo -s" are two very easy ways to run any
              prolonged root shell without enabling the root account, exposing
              it to local and remote dictionary or brute force password
              attacks. That is unless of course a sudoer user doesn't have a
              weak password. :-P But that's another topic. (the -i will drop
              you to the /root/ directory, and -s will leave you in your own
              /home/user/ directory. See "man sudo".)

              Elevating user privileges on a need-only basis is considered an
              industry wide best practice and is generally accepted by most
              experienced administrators.

              Changing to runlevel 1 (single user mode) just to gain a root
              shell is NOT what one should do if they simply wish to gain root
              access. Runlevel 1 actually stops many services according to
              their init level configurations, and is typically used when
              performing maintenance, troubleshooting, or system recovery.


              As for the default runlevels, Ubuntu moved to "Upstart" which
              doesn't use /etc/inittab, but still evaluates it if you create
              one. (see /etc/event.d/) If one wishes to not use the graphical
              logon manager "GDM", they can simply

              a) remove the symlinks in /etc/rcX.d
              (sudo update-rc.d -f gdm remove)

              b) remove gdm altogether (sudo apt-get remove gdm). This of
              course is a dependency of the ubuntu-desktop meta-package,but if
              you are already comfortable with using a console only, who
              cares.

              c) or even remove just one of the gdm rcX.d scripts, and
              designate that runlevel of your choice as being a non-graphical
              multiuser. To be thorough, you can add a corresponding "K13gdm"
              symlink, so that switching back and forth between this runlevel
              will stop gdm accordingly.
              i.e.
              cd /etc/rc2.d
              sudo rm S13gdm
              sudo ln -s ../init.d/gdm K13gdm

              For regular use of the console, you may also want change your
              frame buffer size to a higher resolution to 1024x768 or higher by
              editing /boot/grub/menu.lst.
              i.e. add "vga=791" to the defoptions variable:
              # defoptions=quiet splash vga=791


              Anyway, hope this is useful for you folks.

              GM
              -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
              Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

              iQEVAwUBRldCqZmBPgq+AK/PAQKgPQgAinYCHTkYfaSocJpFLeOxqC7Voz0p9cwc
              w131d3+uWciDoUrj2AG4jlUMJQalK5y4iAzzru35aomg0I+GUWIUcSAHw8gAyjZr
              MkDFTxyyXkbhybnJPeu8D0mtN7RA0e97JtUKqYhzY8vYy5j7n0TK42QpvPZvMUV/
              zqlH9d9W/SAQZXpwKN7A8aF2YJsqkNjWfW3ozyQk/lTc1DfBpfyLSByv0VkTmqAr
              ygmuPkur5Vr7VqMAbumoZhOpBbuVzPIiwAoKuVAAdAM7/uxTS3sR1gCyYDXX173J
              0DFxcKfLfl7IbbnuCIKzf2Xk962lW6LbjQAjTnJ9XW9s0SCeC3aufQ==
              =y0Xu
              -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




              ____________________________________________________________________________________Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
              http://farechase.yahoo.com/
            • Douglas S. Oliver
              ... Hash: SHA1 ... Thanks much, Gilbert. This is really useful information. Am I right in thinking that sudo -i and sudo -s are a little like the difference
              Message 6 of 19 , May 25, 2007
                -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                Hash: SHA1

                Gilbert Mendoza wrote:
                >
                > I hate to add to an already long thread, but ...
                >
                > Just because the root account is not given a password during the
                > installation process, doesn't mean it does not exist. The root
                > account has simply been "locked", and most certainly does exist.
                > (check out "man passwd" for the "-l" option).
                >

                Thanks much, Gilbert. This is really useful information. Am I right in
                thinking that sudo -i and sudo -s are a little like the difference
                between having a root password and using "su <enter> and <password
                enter>" and "su - <enter> and <password enter>? The difference here
                being the added safety of using sudo and staying out of the root
                account. I've been using linux for almost 10 years but am a relative new
                comer to sudo. A few years ago I was studying for my RHSE cert. At that
                time we were warned to watch out for users using sudo when they had weak
                passwords, as you have said. That's why I stayed away from it till now
                with Ubuntu. Not because of a weak password, but because it was easy to
                use su when and only when I needed to become root. I made an rm error as
                root once on my system. Trashed everything! I just needed to do that
                once to become respectful of becoming root. Thanks again--Douglas

                - --

                ******

                Douglas S. Oliver

                "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity,
                and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

                "....What right do I have to think?" --Ugarte, December 1941

                ******
                -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
                Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)
                Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

                iD8DBQFGV1qvGtLw/+nYp8ERAvceAKCEYa2UdCxJRnQeD+OtisJDL5A9pgCggKcm
                uJQC0BLb0Ycqf3xs+pAoDIc=
                =ZfM+
                -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
              • Gilbert Mendoza
                ... Hash: SHA1 No problem at all. You are correct regarding similarities between su , su - , sudo -i and -s. su - and sudo -i elevate privileges to root
                Message 7 of 19 , May 25, 2007
                  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
                  Hash: SHA1


                  No problem at all.

                  You are correct regarding similarities between "su", "su -",
                  sudo -i and -s.

                  "su -" and "sudo -i" elevate privileges to root and use the shell
                  environment for the root user in /etc/passwd. you will notice by
                  issuing a 'pwd' command, you are placed in the /root directory.

                  "su" and "sudo -s" elevate privileges to root and use the shell
                  environment of the user running the command. So, you will stay
                  in /home/user, and any bash aliases, etc, will remain intact.

                  There are many advantages in using sudo vs. su, but primarily it
                  comes down to the granularity of control one has in limiting what
                  sudoer's can do with their privileges. For instance, with sudo
                  you can allow a user (or group of users) to to run a small set of
                  commands with root privileges, without granting access to more
                  sensitive functions.

                  Have a great weekend...

                  GM

                  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
                  Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

                  iD8DBQFGV3b2BZd5UQddvKkRAmwZAJ44mKr8x1z69RrZjBMjGrYtkLGIpACgu0hz
                  No4m+xJgGwBjUrKvDA+oc30=
                  =dzqI
                  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



                  --- "Douglas S. Oliver" <dsoliver@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Thanks much, Gilbert. This is really useful information. Am I right in
                  > thinking that sudo -i and sudo -s are a little like the difference
                  > between having a root password and using "su <enter> and <password
                  > enter>" and "su - <enter> and <password enter>? The difference here
                  > being the added safety of using sudo and staying out of the root
                  > account. I've been using linux for almost 10 years but am a relative new
                  > comer to sudo. A few years ago I was studying for my RHSE cert. At that
                  > time we were warned to watch out for users using sudo when they had weak
                  > passwords, as you have said. That's why I stayed away from it till now
                  > with Ubuntu. Not because of a weak password, but because it was easy to
                  > use su when and only when I needed to become root. I made an rm error as
                  > root once on my system. Trashed everything! I just needed to do that
                  > once to become respectful of becoming root. Thanks again--Douglas
                  >




                  ____________________________________________________________________________________
                  Sucker-punch spam with award-winning protection.
                  Try the free Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                  http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/features_spam.html
                • Lamar Owen
                  ... While there is nothing wrong (and a lot right) with apt, let s compare apples to apples here. The raw rpm command is equivalent to the raw dpkg command.
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 25, 2007
                    On Friday 25 May 2007, John DeCarlo wrote:
                    > Using apt is much easier and more reliable than using rpm. Trust me, I
                    > used rpm and Red Hat for decades. When I switched to Ubuntu last year, I
                    > was delightfully amazed at how much I had been missing while using rpm.

                    While there is nothing wrong (and a lot right) with apt, let's compare apples
                    to apples here. The raw rpm command is equivalent to the raw dpkg command.
                    The equivalent command to apt in a Debian-inspired distribution on, say, a
                    Fedora Core installation, is 'yum'. You do that same sorts of things: 'yum
                    install kshisen' will pull in any needed RPM's from the repository, exactly
                    like 'apt-get install kshisen' would.

                    Now, with Ubuntu or plain Debian you will get a substantially larger
                    repository of software available; and it's not as fractured as the typical
                    RPM third party repositories are. But that has nothing to do with the tools
                    that are available.

                    I've been evaluating Kubuntu 7.04 in a virtual machine for a week or so, and I
                    like most of what I see. The biggest thing is the unified repository. The
                    second biggest thing is that the gnuradio and usrp packages are 'just there'
                    in that repository, whereas getting RPM's of same is difficult. However, I
                    find that adept-installer is just about as slow as pirut (GUI yum frontend on
                    Fedora Core 5 and above), and that's with identical hardware. Now,
                    adept-manager is quite a bit better.

                    Incidentally, there is an apt version for RPM-based systems. You can even get
                    synaptic on Fedora Core if you'd like.

                    I'm using Fedora Core 6 here on an Inspiron 640m, and most things work fine
                    (no headphones is an annoyance, but the sound does at least play; I haven't
                    worked much on the wireless, but that's a low priority for me; LCD backlight
                    control with Fn-UP or Fn-DOWN isn't working, etc).
                    --
                    Lamar Owen
                    Chief Information Officer
                    Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute
                    1 PARI Drive
                    Rosman, NC 28772
                    (828)862-5554
                    www.pari.edu
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.