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Re: [linux-dell-laptops] Digest Number 2040

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  • Irlandes
    I have been offline for a while. I note that some of you have made remarks about a flame war between Chris Fox and me. Let us examine the two words, flame and
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 31, 2005
      I have been offline for a while. I note that some of you have made
      remarks about a flame war between Chris Fox and me. Let us examine the
      two words, flame and war. Flames are angry personal attacks on an
      individual. A war is a mutual attack. On this list, there have been no
      flame wars at all. Go back and read the mails. The only flames have
      been generated by Chris Fox, when someone says something he doesn't
      like.

      I originally made a comment that I did not know why anyone would pay
      $50 more for XP, an inferior product. Maybe some of you didn't like
      that comment, but it is not a personal attack on anyone. Chris
      responded with anger directed at me, i.e., flames. Then, I stated why I
      felt XP was an inferior product. I do not believe my statement included
      any personal attack. Chris responded with more personal attacks.

      Someone else explained his problems with Microsoft, and I believe did
      not include any personal attack. Chris responded with a personal attack,
      accusing the other person of "patently false" statements, which is a
      euphemism for lying. When the other person explained his statements,
      Chris attacked again, this time agreeing the person was actually correct
      when Chris accused him of lying, but then sarcastically asked why he had
      even expected Microsoft to help him.

      Let me say again. All flames have come from Chris, not from anyone else.
      I will say again, Chris or those who have agreed with him, do not belong
      on any Linux forum anywhere, not because it is my business. But, because
      a very high percentage of Linux users had really bad experience with
      Windows, and my 'inferior' comment will not be worth notice on most
      Linux forums. I am reminded of Rodney King's statement that we should
      all try go get along, shortly before he was arrested several times for
      such things as wife-beating.

      Now, let us discuss the user agreements all Yahoo participants accept
      before they come on any Yahoo forum or message board. Those rules
      plainly state that there is to be no personal attacks on any Yahoo board
      or list, and no obscenities or vulgar language. And, it further states
      that when there is any abuse the users have accepted the fact that staff
      decisions involving abuse of user rules will be summary, that is, there
      is no guaranteed right to due process and no appeal. You all accepted
      those rules. Chris accepted them.

      I suspect Chris is a product of mail servers, which have no rules, and
      the nastier a person is, the more he is admired. This is not a mail
      list, it is a Yahoo group.

      Only one time did I file an abuse charge on Yahoo. In a travel board on
      Mexico City someone posted a really nasty, racist comment directed at
      all Mexicans as a group. I reported it, and next time I checked, it was
      gone, without any response to me from the abuse staff.

      Yahoo has more or less the following policy, dedicated to keeping the
      boards and groups fairly sane. If they get an abuse complaint, I believe
      they have four options:

      1. Do not investigate, if the complaint does not sound serious.

      2. Investigate and take no action if no violation is found.

      3. Delete the offending material.

      4. Shut down the user i.d, that is, ban the user.

      They do not give final warnings as some forums do. They do not ask to
      hear both sides. They do not notify anyone, including usually the
      offender, of their actions or reasons for their actions. And, the rules
      you accepted state pretty much what I have said. If I am in error, the
      error is minor.

      Since several of you apparently do not understand those rules, this is a
      good time to read them again. Note what is explicitly forbidden, and
      note whether it says that calling a commercial product inferior, and
      explaining on a group list why you think so, is also forbidden. I think
      you will find that it is not.

      Look at my postings. Maybe you don't like them for whatever reason, but
      there is no personal attack there. There is in Chris' postings. That
      comment about Vaseline(tm) alone has a fifty percent chance of getting
      him kicked off the list when (not if) an abuse complaint is filed.

      But, to me 50% is not enough. I have his mails, and I am going to
      patiently wait. People like Chris do not change their ways. He has
      made it clear that he considers himself judge, jury, and prosecutor with
      right to review all postings, and if he does not like them, he will
      engage in extremely nasty attacks on the poster.

      When his behavior pattern reaches 90% probability of getting him kicked
      off, then I will pack it all up and send it to the abuse staff.

      And, if he stops his personal attacks, and engages in polite
      disagreement, then I sure won't file a complaint. This is not a perfect
      society, but generally in the U.S. we believe that except for the most
      outrageous behavior, people deserve a second chance.
    • Chris Fox
      ... Hash: SHA1 ... why spoil a good thing? this list has been a nice, interesting cordial place without your handkerchief-wringing nastiness. to the others:
      Message 2 of 2 , Mar 31, 2005
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        Irlandes wrote:

        | I have been offline for a while.

        why spoil a good thing?

        this list has been a nice, interesting cordial place without your
        handkerchief-wringing nastiness.

        to the others: I'm leaving this shit on the floor where it was shat, not
        touching it. Let us return to Linux on Dell Laptops.
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