Re: [linux-dell-laptops] Digest Number 2040
- I have been offline for a while. I note that some of you have made
remarks about a flame war between Chris Fox and me. Let us examine the
two words, flame and war. Flames are angry personal attacks on an
individual. A war is a mutual attack. On this list, there have been no
flame wars at all. Go back and read the mails. The only flames have
been generated by Chris Fox, when someone says something he doesn't
I originally made a comment that I did not know why anyone would pay
$50 more for XP, an inferior product. Maybe some of you didn't like
that comment, but it is not a personal attack on anyone. Chris
responded with anger directed at me, i.e., flames. Then, I stated why I
felt XP was an inferior product. I do not believe my statement included
any personal attack. Chris responded with more personal attacks.
Someone else explained his problems with Microsoft, and I believe did
not include any personal attack. Chris responded with a personal attack,
accusing the other person of "patently false" statements, which is a
euphemism for lying. When the other person explained his statements,
Chris attacked again, this time agreeing the person was actually correct
when Chris accused him of lying, but then sarcastically asked why he had
even expected Microsoft to help him.
Let me say again. All flames have come from Chris, not from anyone else.
I will say again, Chris or those who have agreed with him, do not belong
on any Linux forum anywhere, not because it is my business. But, because
a very high percentage of Linux users had really bad experience with
Windows, and my 'inferior' comment will not be worth notice on most
Linux forums. I am reminded of Rodney King's statement that we should
all try go get along, shortly before he was arrested several times for
such things as wife-beating.
Now, let us discuss the user agreements all Yahoo participants accept
before they come on any Yahoo forum or message board. Those rules
plainly state that there is to be no personal attacks on any Yahoo board
or list, and no obscenities or vulgar language. And, it further states
that when there is any abuse the users have accepted the fact that staff
decisions involving abuse of user rules will be summary, that is, there
is no guaranteed right to due process and no appeal. You all accepted
those rules. Chris accepted them.
I suspect Chris is a product of mail servers, which have no rules, and
the nastier a person is, the more he is admired. This is not a mail
list, it is a Yahoo group.
Only one time did I file an abuse charge on Yahoo. In a travel board on
Mexico City someone posted a really nasty, racist comment directed at
all Mexicans as a group. I reported it, and next time I checked, it was
gone, without any response to me from the abuse staff.
Yahoo has more or less the following policy, dedicated to keeping the
boards and groups fairly sane. If they get an abuse complaint, I believe
they have four options:
1. Do not investigate, if the complaint does not sound serious.
2. Investigate and take no action if no violation is found.
3. Delete the offending material.
4. Shut down the user i.d, that is, ban the user.
They do not give final warnings as some forums do. They do not ask to
hear both sides. They do not notify anyone, including usually the
offender, of their actions or reasons for their actions. And, the rules
you accepted state pretty much what I have said. If I am in error, the
error is minor.
Since several of you apparently do not understand those rules, this is a
good time to read them again. Note what is explicitly forbidden, and
note whether it says that calling a commercial product inferior, and
explaining on a group list why you think so, is also forbidden. I think
you will find that it is not.
Look at my postings. Maybe you don't like them for whatever reason, but
there is no personal attack there. There is in Chris' postings. That
comment about Vaseline(tm) alone has a fifty percent chance of getting
him kicked off the list when (not if) an abuse complaint is filed.
But, to me 50% is not enough. I have his mails, and I am going to
patiently wait. People like Chris do not change their ways. He has
made it clear that he considers himself judge, jury, and prosecutor with
right to review all postings, and if he does not like them, he will
engage in extremely nasty attacks on the poster.
When his behavior pattern reaches 90% probability of getting him kicked
off, then I will pack it all up and send it to the abuse staff.
And, if he stops his personal attacks, and engages in polite
disagreement, then I sure won't file a complaint. This is not a perfect
society, but generally in the U.S. we believe that except for the most
outrageous behavior, people deserve a second chance.
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| I have been offline for a while.
why spoil a good thing?
this list has been a nice, interesting cordial place without your
to the others: I'm leaving this shit on the floor where it was shat, not
touching it. Let us return to Linux on Dell Laptops.
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