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Re: [linux-dell-laptops] Re: power up time?

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  • Sudhakar Govindavajhala
    ... while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer? as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can generate
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
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      > jsc3@g... writes:
      > >
      > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week
      > or
      > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after
      > about
      > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
      > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and
      > they
      > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
      > > discharging use.
      >
      > The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running with the lid closed
      > for stretches of up to a couple of months with no adverse effects.
      > The only time it ever got warm was when it was being pushed hard, and
      > even then it wasn't a big deal.

      while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer?
      as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can
      generate enuf heat that there is a bit error. i want to stress the hw
      thru sw to make an error. does this sound too good to be true? any ideas
      of how else i can stress hw? if u know someother m/c on which this may
      work, just let me know.

      Sudhakar.

      >
      > To avoid damaging the battery, just pull it out; the laptop will run
      > fine without it. If you want to fill the hole, Dell used to make a
      > plug that looks like a battery but doesn't have anthing in it. (Or
      > you could just release the battery and leave it sticking out a quarter
      > inch.)
      >
      > -- Mark
      >
      >
      > --------------------------------------------------------------
      > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
      > To unsubscribe, email: linux-dell-laptops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl/faq
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >

      --
      Sudhakar.



      Sudhakar Govindavajhala Department of Computer Science
      Graduate Student, Princeton University
      Ph : (c) +1 609 273 8407 (o) +1 609 258 1763
      http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sudhakar
    • jsc3@gtf.org
      ... My Inspiron 8000, which is less than two years old, with a Lithium Ion battery, now has a dead battery because I use it as a mobile desktop (which makes
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
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        bowbagson <bowbag@...> wrote:
        > John Cronin <jsc3@...> wrote:
        > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
        > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
        > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
        > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
        > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
        > > discharging use.
        >
        > Is this the case with the new laptops as well? I thought they would
        > have perfected the circuitry as to not adversly effect the batteries
        > when the laptop is connected to ac for a long period of time. My very
        > old compaq suffered from that problem as well.

        My Inspiron 8000, which is less than two years old, with a Lithium
        Ion battery, now has a dead battery because I use it as a mobile
        desktop (which makes sense, as it must weight over 8 pounds with
        everything in it). I pretty much always have it plugged in.

        I suspect the battery setups for the Inspiron 8200 and Latitude C840
        are very similar, if not identical, to the setup on my Inspiron 8000.

        --
        John Cronin
        mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
      • jsc3@gtf.org
        ... I don t know, but it is allegedly possible to burn one s self. I saw a bit on the CNN web page a few months ago about a guy who had left his laptop in his
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
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          Sudhakar Govindavajhala wrote:
          >
          > while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer?
          > as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can
          > generate enuf heat that there is a bit error. i want to stress the hw
          > thru sw to make an error. does this sound too good to be true? any ideas
          > of how else i can stress hw? if u know someother m/c on which this may
          > work, just let me know.

          I don't know, but it is allegedly possible to burn one's self.

          I saw a bit on the CNN web page a few months ago about a guy who
          had left his laptop in his lap for a long time while doing some work
          and he managed to severely burn his private parts. I found it a
          bit incredulous, as I don't see how this could happen over time
          without becoming aware of it before such severe damage occurred
          (the description on CNN was quite specific).

          --
          John Cronin
          mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
        • W.K. Vladmir Ward
          I ve seen programs on the internet that throw numerous complex equations at the CPU -- I used these to test a machine a couple of times. After testing I popped
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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            I've seen programs on the internet that throw numerous complex equations at the CPU -- I used these to test a machine a couple of times. After testing I popped the computer open and nearly scalded myself. Granted the tests were running for about 20 hours, but I think there's a good possibility you could blow out a CPU by throwing too much at it over a long enough period.

             Sudhakar Govindavajhala <sudhakar@...> wrote:



            > jsc3@g... writes:
            > >
            > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week
            > or
            > > more.  The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after
            > about
            > > two years of this.  This is a normal effect, in general.  Batteries
            > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and
            > they
            > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
            > > discharging use.
            >
            > The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running with the lid closed
            > for stretches of up to a couple of months with no adverse effects.
            > The only time it ever got warm was when it was being pushed hard, and
            > even then it wasn't  a big deal.

            while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer?
            as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can
            generate enuf heat that there is a bit error.  i want to stress the hw
            thru sw to make an error.  does this sound too good to be true?  any ideas
            of how else i can stress hw?  if u know someother m/c on which this may
            work, just let me know.

            Sudhakar.

            >
            > To avoid damaging the battery, just pull it out; the laptop will run
            > fine without it.  If you want to fill the hole, Dell used to make a
            > plug that looks like a battery but doesn't have anthing in it.  (Or
            > you could just release the battery and leave it sticking out a quarter
            > inch.)
            >
            > -- Mark
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------
            > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
            > To unsubscribe, email: linux-dell-laptops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl/faq
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >

            --
            Sudhakar.



            Sudhakar Govindavajhala                        Department of Computer Science
            Graduate Student,                         Princeton University
            Ph : (c) +1 609 273 8407                  (o) +1 609 258 1763
                           http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sudhakar

            --------------------------------------------------------------
            Please post your X config files in the group links or database
            To unsubscribe, email: linux-dell-laptops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl/faq


            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


            "The clock strikes 12, and moondrops burst out at you from the hiding place.
            Miss Carrie Nurse and Susie Dear would find themselves at Four Winds Bar.
            It's the nexus of the crisis, and the origin of storms.
            Just the place to hopelessly encounter time...
            And then came me..."

            -Metallica, "Astronomy"



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          • Stephen Lau
            ... I saw the same article and I found it kind of incredulous as well. I don t know about y all, but my private parts are pretty freaking sensitive. I d
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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              On Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 12:25:07PM -0500, jsc3@... wrote:
              > I don't know, but it is allegedly possible to burn one's self.
              >
              > I saw a bit on the CNN web page a few months ago about a guy who
              > had left his laptop in his lap for a long time while doing some work
              > and he managed to severely burn his private parts. I found it a
              > bit incredulous, as I don't see how this could happen over time
              > without becoming aware of it before such severe damage occurred
              > (the description on CNN was quite specific).

              I saw the same article and I found it kind of incredulous as well. I don't know about
              y'all, but my private parts are pretty freaking sensitive. I'd notice even a slight
              warmth - let alone a full severe-burn. :-P

              But I suppose talking about private parts is a digression of the topic... :-P

              steve

              --
              stephen lau :: [ldl@...] :: gpg key id: 0x09E5CD21
              http://www.whacked.net/oss/ldl
            • Sudhakar Govindavajhala
              can u be more specific as to what kinda things were exactly going on. what program is it? what machine is it? after all, i want to write such a program for
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                can u be more specific as to what kinda things were exactly going on.
                what program is it? what machine is it? after all, i want to write such
                a program for my research!

                Sudahakr

                On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, W.K. Vladmir Ward wrote:

                >
                > I've seen programs on the internet that throw numerous complex equations at the CPU -- I used these to test a machine a couple of times. After testing I popped the computer open and nearly scalded myself. Granted the tests were running for about 20 hours, but I think there's a good possibility you could blow out a CPU by throwing too much at it over a long enough period.
                > Sudhakar Govindavajhala <sudhakar@...> wrote:
                >
                > > jsc3@g... writes:
                > > >
                > > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week
                > > or
                > > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after
                > > about
                > > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
                > > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and
                > > they
                > > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
                > > > discharging use.
                > >
                > > The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running with the lid closed
                > > for stretches of up to a couple of months with no adverse effects.
                > > The only time it ever got warm was when it was being pushed hard, and
                > > even then it wasn't a big deal.
                >
                > while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer?
                > as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can
                > generate enuf heat that there is a bit error. i want to stress the hw
                > thru sw to make an error. does this sound too good to be true? any ideas
                > of how else i can stress hw? if u know someother m/c on which this may
                > work, just let me know.
                >
                > Sudhakar.
                >
                > >
                > > To avoid damaging the battery, just pull it out; the laptop will run
                > > fine without it. If you want to fill the hole, Dell used to make a
                > > plug that looks like a battery but doesn't have anthing in it. (Or
                > > you could just release the battery and leave it sticking out a quarter
                > > inch.)
                > >
                > > -- Mark
                > >
                > >
                > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                > > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
                > > To unsubscribe, email: linux-dell-laptops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl/faq
                > >
                > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                > >
                > >
                >
                >

                --
                Sudhakar.



                Sudhakar Govindavajhala Department of Computer Science
                Graduate Student, Princeton University
                Ph : (c) +1 609 273 8407 (o) +1 609 258 1763
                http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sudhakar
              • John Wells
                I ve used this one in the past: http://users.ev1.net/~redelm/
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                  I've used this one in the past:

                  http://users.ev1.net/~redelm/

                  Sudhakar Govindavajhala said:
                  >
                  > can u be more specific as to what kinda things were exactly going on.
                  > what program is it? what machine is it? after all, i want to write
                  > such a program for my research!
                  >
                  > Sudahakr
                • Jim Diamond
                  ... John (et al), I agree that NiCd batteries are much happier if you discharge them fully, but what I ve read about Li-ion (and NiMH) batteries disagrees with
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                    On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 at 09:30 (-0500), jsc3@... wrote:

                    > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
                    > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
                    > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
                    > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
                    > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
                    > discharging use.

                    John (et al),

                    I agree that NiCd batteries are much happier if you discharge them fully,
                    but what I've read about Li-ion (and NiMH) batteries disagrees with that.
                    From what I understand, they don't need the discharge cycle that NiCd
                    batteries need.

                    And, FWIW, the Dell docs said that the more discharge/charge experience the
                    battery has, the more it wears out. This suggests to me one might to keep
                    it charged up. So far (knock on wood) my battery seems fine.

                    I'm sorry to hear that your battery went dead (especially that my I8K is
                    coming up on 2 years this summer). Did you have an extrended warrantee?
                    If so, is the battery covered? I got the 3 year warrantee, but I have this
                    vague recollection of being unclear as to whether that covered the battery
                    or not.

                    Cheers.

                    Jim
                  • jsc3@gtf.org
                    ... Just look for any decent CPU benchmark, the net is full of them. I did a Google search on CPU stress test , and came up with the following in about a
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                      Sudhakar Govindavajhala wrote:
                      >
                      > can u be more specific as to what kinda things were exactly going on.
                      > what program is it? what machine is it? after all, i want to write such
                      > a program for my research!

                      Just look for any decent CPU benchmark, the net is full of them.

                      I did a Google search on "CPU stress test", and came up with the
                      following in about a minute:

                      http://users.bigpond.net.au/cpuburn/

                      http://kennethhunt.com/archives/000391.html

                      http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html

                      You really should learn to use Google and similar tools.

                      See my comments below about why you are unlikely to be able
                      to burn up a modern Intel CPU.

                      > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, W.K. Vladmir Ward wrote:
                      >
                      > >
                      > > I've seen programs on the internet that throw numerous complex
                      > > equations at the CPU -- I used these to test a machine a couple
                      > > of times. After testing I popped the computer open and nearly scalded
                      > > myself. Granted the tests were running for about 20 hours, but I
                      > > think there's a good possibility you could blow out a CPU by throwing
                      > > too much at it over a long enough period.

                      Intel CPUs have had overheat protection for a long time, certainly all
                      P3s and P4s have it, and I think it went back to the Pentium. P3s hang,
                      but the CPU survives, and P4s actually slow down if they heat up too
                      much. AMD processors, on the other hand, will just burn right up if
                      left to their own devices. The newer Athlons do have some protection
                      circuitry but it requires support in the motherboard, and not many
                      motherboard manufacturers had bothered to implement it the last time
                      I looked. Thus the choice of a CPU fan and heatsink is crucial for
                      AMD Athlon, particularly if you intend to overclock.

                      Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, and other sites have more information
                      about CPU thermal protection. Some of these sites test by removing
                      the heatsink and fan, and seeing what happens. What I describe
                      above is what happens - it takes an Athlon less than 5 seconds
                      to just fry. P3 locks up, P4 slows down.

                      I seriously doubt you can damage the CPU in a Dell laptop, as they
                      all have Intel chips. You might be able to damage other components,
                      but Dell almost certainly runs programs similar to those I listed above
                      for a day or two on the final prototypes before they launch a new
                      laptop model.

                      --
                      John Cronin
                      mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
                    • jsc3@gtf.org
                      ... Lithium Ion batteries are far less likely to suffer from this than NiCad, or even NiMH, but they are not immune. I did some research on the web, and
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                        Jim Diamond wrote:
                        >
                        > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 at 09:30 (-0500), jsc3@... wrote:
                        >
                        > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
                        > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
                        > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
                        > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
                        > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
                        > > discharging use.
                        >
                        > John (et al),
                        >
                        > I agree that NiCd batteries are much happier if you discharge them fully,
                        > but what I've read about Li-ion (and NiMH) batteries disagrees with that.
                        > From what I understand, they don't need the discharge cycle that NiCd
                        > batteries need.

                        Lithium Ion batteries are far less likely to suffer from this than
                        NiCad, or even NiMH, but they are not immune. I did some research on
                        the web, and survey says Lithium Ion batteries used as I described
                        will go toes up earlier than ones that are discharged and charged
                        more frequently.

                        > And, FWIW, the Dell docs said that the more discharge/charge experience the
                        > battery has, the more it wears out. This suggests to me one might to keep
                        > it charged up. So far (knock on wood) my battery seems fine.

                        How old is your system? Mine seemed fine until a couple of months ago.

                        > I'm sorry to hear that your battery went dead (especially that my I8K is
                        > coming up on 2 years this summer). Did you have an extrended warrantee?

                        Yes, I have the three year Complete Care.

                        > If so, is the battery covered? I got the 3 year warrantee, but I have this
                        > vague recollection of being unclear as to whether that covered the battery
                        > or not.

                        The battery is the ONLY component that is explicitly warranteed for ONLY
                        one year, no matter which plan you get.

                        --
                        John Cronin
                        mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
                      • W.K. Vladmir Ward
                        Errr, I d have to dig out the program again; it was a Win32 app, running on a Dell GX1 (desktop). I know one of them was calculating Pi, another one was some
                        Message 11 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                          Errr, I'd have to dig out the program again; it was a
                          Win32 app, running on a Dell GX1 (desktop). I know one
                          of them was calculating Pi, another one was some
                          number sequence... I have it on the server at work,
                          I'll check it out tomorrow and let you know.

                          --- Sudhakar Govindavajhala
                          <sudhakar@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > can u be more specific as to what kinda things were
                          > exactly going on.
                          > what program is it? what machine is it? after all,
                          > i want to write such
                          > a program for my research!
                          >
                          > Sudahakr
                          >
                          > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, W.K. Vladmir Ward wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > > I've seen programs on the internet that throw
                          > numerous complex equations at the CPU -- I used
                          > these to test a machine a couple of times. After
                          > testing I popped the computer open and nearly
                          > scalded myself. Granted the tests were running for
                          > about 20 hours, but I think there's a good
                          > possibility you could blow out a CPU by throwing too
                          > much at it over a long enough period.
                          > > Sudhakar Govindavajhala

                          > <sudhakar@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > > jsc3@g... writes:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often
                          > leave it up for a week
                          > > > or
                          > > > > more. The only ill effect I got was the
                          > battery went dead after
                          > > > about
                          > > > > two years of this. This is a normal effect,
                          > in general. Batteries
                          > > > > work much better if you discharge them fully
                          > before charging, and
                          > > > they
                          > > > > don't generally do well if charged
                          > continuously with little or no
                          > > > > discharging use.
                          > > >
                          > > > The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running
                          > with the lid closed
                          > > > for stretches of up to a couple of months with
                          > no adverse effects.
                          > > > The only time it ever got warm was when it was
                          > being pushed hard, and
                          > > > even then it wasn't a big deal.
                          > >
                          > > while we are on the topic, is it possible to
                          > actually burn the computer?
                          > > as a part of my research, i am interested in
                          > writing a program that can
                          > > generate enuf heat that there is a bit error. i
                          > want to stress the hw
                          > > thru sw to make an error. does this sound too
                          > good to be true? any ideas
                          > > of how else i can stress hw? if u know someother
                          > m/c on which this may
                          > > work, just let me know.
                          > >
                          > > Sudhakar.
                          > >
                          > > >
                          > > > To avoid damaging the battery, just pull it out;
                          > the laptop will run
                          > > > fine without it. If you want to fill the hole,
                          > Dell used to make a
                          > > > plug that looks like a battery but doesn't have
                          > anthing in it. (Or
                          > > > you could just release the battery and leave it
                          > sticking out a quarter
                          > > > inch.)
                          > > >
                          > > > -- Mark
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          >
                          --------------------------------------------------------------
                          > > > Please post your X config files in the group
                          > links or database
                          > > > To unsubscribe, email:
                          > linux-dell-laptops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > > > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl/faq
                          > > >
                          > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                          > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Sudhakar.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Sudhakar Govindavajhala Department
                          > of Computer Science
                          > Graduate Student, Princeton
                          > University
                          > Ph : (c) +1 609 273 8407 (o) +1 609
                          > 258 1763
                          > http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sudhakar
                          >


                          =====

                          "The clock strikes 12, and moondrops burst out at you from the hiding place.
                          Miss Carrie Nurse and Susie Dear would find themselves at Four Winds Bar.
                          It's the nexus of the crisis, and the origin of storms.
                          Just the place to hopelessly encounter time...
                          And then came me..."

                          -Metallica, "Astronomy"


                          __________________________________________________
                          Do you Yahoo!?
                          Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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                        • Jim Diamond
                          ... I had read a detailed article by some people that appeared to have real technical knowledge, and my recollection was that they denied this problem with
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 19, 2003
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                            On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 at 17:34 (-0500), jsc3@... wrote:

                            > Jim Diamond wrote:
                            > >
                            > > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 at 09:30 (-0500), jsc3@... wrote:
                            > >
                            > > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
                            > > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
                            > > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
                            > > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
                            > > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
                            > > > discharging use.
                            > >
                            > > John (et al),
                            > >
                            > > I agree that NiCd batteries are much happier if you discharge them fully,
                            > > but what I've read about Li-ion (and NiMH) batteries disagrees with that.
                            > > From what I understand, they don't need the discharge cycle that NiCd
                            > > batteries need.
                            >
                            > Lithium Ion batteries are far less likely to suffer from this than
                            > NiCad, or even NiMH, but they are not immune. I did some research on
                            > the web, and survey says Lithium Ion batteries used as I described
                            > will go toes up earlier than ones that are discharged and charged
                            > more frequently.

                            I had read a detailed article by some people that appeared to have real
                            technical knowledge, and my recollection was that they denied this problem
                            with Li-ion batteries. The web site is http://www.buchmann.ca/ but they
                            have re-organized their documents since I last visited and I didn't
                            immediately see the part that I recalled. However, regardless of my
                            memory, I recommend this web site to any (layman) interested in the issues
                            of different battery types.

                            >> And, FWIW, the Dell docs said that the more discharge/charge experience the
                            >> battery has, the more it wears out. This suggests to me one might to keep
                            >> it charged up. So far (knock on wood) my battery seems fine.
                            > How old is your system? Mine seemed fine until a couple of months ago.
                            My system is now about 18 months old.

                            >> I'm sorry to hear that your battery went dead (especially that my I8K is
                            >> coming up on 2 years this summer). Did you have an extrended warrantee?
                            > Yes, I have the three year Complete Care.
                            >
                            >> If so, is the battery covered? I got the 3 year warrantee, but I have this
                            >> vague recollection of being unclear as to whether that covered the battery
                            >> or not.
                            >
                            > The battery is the ONLY component that is explicitly warranteed for ONLY
                            > one year, no matter which plan you get.
                            That's disappointing... I'm sure I read that Way Back When, but since I
                            haven't needed to know (knock on wood), I've forgotten the details.

                            Cheers.

                            Jim
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