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Re: [linux-dell-laptops] power up time?

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  • jsc3@gtf.org
    On Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 12:47:37AM -0500, Andrew wrote: - On Sunday 02 February 2003 12:24 am, bowbagson wrote: - I just purchased a Inspiron 8200 and am
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
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      On Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 12:47:37AM -0500, Andrew wrote:
      -> On Sunday 02 February 2003 12:24 am, "bowbagson wrote:
      -> > I just purchased a Inspiron 8200 and am in the process of setting it
      -> > up with Debian. This laptop is replacing a very old Compaq LTE 5300.
      -> > Anyway, I used to leave the compaq on 24/7 I'd just leave the AC
      -> > adapter plugged in, let it sit and since it was linux I had no need to
      -> > reboot it. With this big fancy Inspiron I'm not sure if I should do
      -> > that. It seems to get so hot. Have any of you guys had problems or
      -> > heard of any that could come from leaving your laptop on 24/7?
      ->
      -> I only have the 8100, but I have had no problems at all, sure it gets a bit
      -> hot, but I've been fine. :)

      I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
      more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
      two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
      work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
      don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
      discharging use.

      --
      John Cronin
      mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
    • Mark Feit <mfeit+linux-dell-laptops@noto
      ... or ... about ... they ... The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running with the lid closed for stretches of up to a couple of months with no adverse
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
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        jsc3@g... writes:
        >
        > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week
        or
        > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after
        about
        > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
        > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and
        they
        > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
        > discharging use.

        The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running with the lid closed
        for stretches of up to a couple of months with no adverse effects.
        The only time it ever got warm was when it was being pushed hard, and
        even then it wasn't a big deal.

        To avoid damaging the battery, just pull it out; the laptop will run
        fine without it. If you want to fill the hole, Dell used to make a
        plug that looks like a battery but doesn't have anthing in it. (Or
        you could just release the battery and leave it sticking out a quarter
        inch.)

        -- Mark
      • bowbagson <bowbag@optonline.net>
        ... Is this the case with the new laptops as well? I thought they would have perfected the circuitry as to not adversly effect the batteries when the laptop
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
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          > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
          > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
          > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
          > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
          > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
          > discharging use.

          Is this the case with the new laptops as well? I thought they would
          have perfected the circuitry as to not adversly effect the batteries
          when the laptop is connected to ac for a long period of time. My very
          old compaq suffered from that problem as well.
        • Sudhakar Govindavajhala
          ... while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer? as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can generate
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
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            > jsc3@g... writes:
            > >
            > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week
            > or
            > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after
            > about
            > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
            > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and
            > they
            > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
            > > discharging use.
            >
            > The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running with the lid closed
            > for stretches of up to a couple of months with no adverse effects.
            > The only time it ever got warm was when it was being pushed hard, and
            > even then it wasn't a big deal.

            while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer?
            as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can
            generate enuf heat that there is a bit error. i want to stress the hw
            thru sw to make an error. does this sound too good to be true? any ideas
            of how else i can stress hw? if u know someother m/c on which this may
            work, just let me know.

            Sudhakar.

            >
            > To avoid damaging the battery, just pull it out; the laptop will run
            > fine without it. If you want to fill the hole, Dell used to make a
            > plug that looks like a battery but doesn't have anthing in it. (Or
            > you could just release the battery and leave it sticking out a quarter
            > inch.)
            >
            > -- Mark
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------
            > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
            > To unsubscribe, email: linux-dell-laptops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl/faq
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >

            --
            Sudhakar.



            Sudhakar Govindavajhala Department of Computer Science
            Graduate Student, Princeton University
            Ph : (c) +1 609 273 8407 (o) +1 609 258 1763
            http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sudhakar
          • jsc3@gtf.org
            ... My Inspiron 8000, which is less than two years old, with a Lithium Ion battery, now has a dead battery because I use it as a mobile desktop (which makes
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
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              bowbagson <bowbag@...> wrote:
              > John Cronin <jsc3@...> wrote:
              > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
              > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
              > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
              > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
              > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
              > > discharging use.
              >
              > Is this the case with the new laptops as well? I thought they would
              > have perfected the circuitry as to not adversly effect the batteries
              > when the laptop is connected to ac for a long period of time. My very
              > old compaq suffered from that problem as well.

              My Inspiron 8000, which is less than two years old, with a Lithium
              Ion battery, now has a dead battery because I use it as a mobile
              desktop (which makes sense, as it must weight over 8 pounds with
              everything in it). I pretty much always have it plugged in.

              I suspect the battery setups for the Inspiron 8200 and Latitude C840
              are very similar, if not identical, to the setup on my Inspiron 8000.

              --
              John Cronin
              mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
            • jsc3@gtf.org
              ... I don t know, but it is allegedly possible to burn one s self. I saw a bit on the CNN web page a few months ago about a guy who had left his laptop in his
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 2, 2003
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                Sudhakar Govindavajhala wrote:
                >
                > while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer?
                > as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can
                > generate enuf heat that there is a bit error. i want to stress the hw
                > thru sw to make an error. does this sound too good to be true? any ideas
                > of how else i can stress hw? if u know someother m/c on which this may
                > work, just let me know.

                I don't know, but it is allegedly possible to burn one's self.

                I saw a bit on the CNN web page a few months ago about a guy who
                had left his laptop in his lap for a long time while doing some work
                and he managed to severely burn his private parts. I found it a
                bit incredulous, as I don't see how this could happen over time
                without becoming aware of it before such severe damage occurred
                (the description on CNN was quite specific).

                --
                John Cronin
                mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
              • W.K. Vladmir Ward
                I ve seen programs on the internet that throw numerous complex equations at the CPU -- I used these to test a machine a couple of times. After testing I popped
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                  I've seen programs on the internet that throw numerous complex equations at the CPU -- I used these to test a machine a couple of times. After testing I popped the computer open and nearly scalded myself. Granted the tests were running for about 20 hours, but I think there's a good possibility you could blow out a CPU by throwing too much at it over a long enough period.

                   Sudhakar Govindavajhala <sudhakar@...> wrote:



                  > jsc3@g... writes:
                  > >
                  > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week
                  > or
                  > > more.  The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after
                  > about
                  > > two years of this.  This is a normal effect, in general.  Batteries
                  > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and
                  > they
                  > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
                  > > discharging use.
                  >
                  > The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running with the lid closed
                  > for stretches of up to a couple of months with no adverse effects.
                  > The only time it ever got warm was when it was being pushed hard, and
                  > even then it wasn't  a big deal.

                  while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer?
                  as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can
                  generate enuf heat that there is a bit error.  i want to stress the hw
                  thru sw to make an error.  does this sound too good to be true?  any ideas
                  of how else i can stress hw?  if u know someother m/c on which this may
                  work, just let me know.

                  Sudhakar.

                  >
                  > To avoid damaging the battery, just pull it out; the laptop will run
                  > fine without it.  If you want to fill the hole, Dell used to make a
                  > plug that looks like a battery but doesn't have anthing in it.  (Or
                  > you could just release the battery and leave it sticking out a quarter
                  > inch.)
                  >
                  > -- Mark
                  >
                  >
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------
                  > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
                  > To unsubscribe, email: linux-dell-laptops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl/faq
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >

                  --
                  Sudhakar.



                  Sudhakar Govindavajhala                        Department of Computer Science
                  Graduate Student,                         Princeton University
                  Ph : (c) +1 609 273 8407                  (o) +1 609 258 1763
                                 http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sudhakar

                  --------------------------------------------------------------
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                • Stephen Lau
                  ... I saw the same article and I found it kind of incredulous as well. I don t know about y all, but my private parts are pretty freaking sensitive. I d
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                    On Sun, Feb 02, 2003 at 12:25:07PM -0500, jsc3@... wrote:
                    > I don't know, but it is allegedly possible to burn one's self.
                    >
                    > I saw a bit on the CNN web page a few months ago about a guy who
                    > had left his laptop in his lap for a long time while doing some work
                    > and he managed to severely burn his private parts. I found it a
                    > bit incredulous, as I don't see how this could happen over time
                    > without becoming aware of it before such severe damage occurred
                    > (the description on CNN was quite specific).

                    I saw the same article and I found it kind of incredulous as well. I don't know about
                    y'all, but my private parts are pretty freaking sensitive. I'd notice even a slight
                    warmth - let alone a full severe-burn. :-P

                    But I suppose talking about private parts is a digression of the topic... :-P

                    steve

                    --
                    stephen lau :: [ldl@...] :: gpg key id: 0x09E5CD21
                    http://www.whacked.net/oss/ldl
                  • Sudhakar Govindavajhala
                    can u be more specific as to what kinda things were exactly going on. what program is it? what machine is it? after all, i want to write such a program for
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                      can u be more specific as to what kinda things were exactly going on.
                      what program is it? what machine is it? after all, i want to write such
                      a program for my research!

                      Sudahakr

                      On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, W.K. Vladmir Ward wrote:

                      >
                      > I've seen programs on the internet that throw numerous complex equations at the CPU -- I used these to test a machine a couple of times. After testing I popped the computer open and nearly scalded myself. Granted the tests were running for about 20 hours, but I think there's a good possibility you could blow out a CPU by throwing too much at it over a long enough period.
                      > Sudhakar Govindavajhala <sudhakar@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > jsc3@g... writes:
                      > > >
                      > > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week
                      > > or
                      > > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after
                      > > about
                      > > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
                      > > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and
                      > > they
                      > > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
                      > > > discharging use.
                      > >
                      > > The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running with the lid closed
                      > > for stretches of up to a couple of months with no adverse effects.
                      > > The only time it ever got warm was when it was being pushed hard, and
                      > > even then it wasn't a big deal.
                      >
                      > while we are on the topic, is it possible to actually burn the computer?
                      > as a part of my research, i am interested in writing a program that can
                      > generate enuf heat that there is a bit error. i want to stress the hw
                      > thru sw to make an error. does this sound too good to be true? any ideas
                      > of how else i can stress hw? if u know someother m/c on which this may
                      > work, just let me know.
                      >
                      > Sudhakar.
                      >
                      > >
                      > > To avoid damaging the battery, just pull it out; the laptop will run
                      > > fine without it. If you want to fill the hole, Dell used to make a
                      > > plug that looks like a battery but doesn't have anthing in it. (Or
                      > > you could just release the battery and leave it sticking out a quarter
                      > > inch.)
                      > >
                      > > -- Mark
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                      > > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
                      > > To unsubscribe, email: linux-dell-laptops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl/faq
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      Sudhakar.



                      Sudhakar Govindavajhala Department of Computer Science
                      Graduate Student, Princeton University
                      Ph : (c) +1 609 273 8407 (o) +1 609 258 1763
                      http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sudhakar
                    • John Wells
                      I ve used this one in the past: http://users.ev1.net/~redelm/
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                        I've used this one in the past:

                        http://users.ev1.net/~redelm/

                        Sudhakar Govindavajhala said:
                        >
                        > can u be more specific as to what kinda things were exactly going on.
                        > what program is it? what machine is it? after all, i want to write
                        > such a program for my research!
                        >
                        > Sudahakr
                      • Jim Diamond
                        ... John (et al), I agree that NiCd batteries are much happier if you discharge them fully, but what I ve read about Li-ion (and NiMH) batteries disagrees with
                        Message 11 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                          On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 at 09:30 (-0500), jsc3@... wrote:

                          > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
                          > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
                          > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
                          > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
                          > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
                          > discharging use.

                          John (et al),

                          I agree that NiCd batteries are much happier if you discharge them fully,
                          but what I've read about Li-ion (and NiMH) batteries disagrees with that.
                          From what I understand, they don't need the discharge cycle that NiCd
                          batteries need.

                          And, FWIW, the Dell docs said that the more discharge/charge experience the
                          battery has, the more it wears out. This suggests to me one might to keep
                          it charged up. So far (knock on wood) my battery seems fine.

                          I'm sorry to hear that your battery went dead (especially that my I8K is
                          coming up on 2 years this summer). Did you have an extrended warrantee?
                          If so, is the battery covered? I got the 3 year warrantee, but I have this
                          vague recollection of being unclear as to whether that covered the battery
                          or not.

                          Cheers.

                          Jim
                        • jsc3@gtf.org
                          ... Just look for any decent CPU benchmark, the net is full of them. I did a Google search on CPU stress test , and came up with the following in about a
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                            Sudhakar Govindavajhala wrote:
                            >
                            > can u be more specific as to what kinda things were exactly going on.
                            > what program is it? what machine is it? after all, i want to write such
                            > a program for my research!

                            Just look for any decent CPU benchmark, the net is full of them.

                            I did a Google search on "CPU stress test", and came up with the
                            following in about a minute:

                            http://users.bigpond.net.au/cpuburn/

                            http://kennethhunt.com/archives/000391.html

                            http://www.phystech.com/download/ubench.html

                            You really should learn to use Google and similar tools.

                            See my comments below about why you are unlikely to be able
                            to burn up a modern Intel CPU.

                            > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, W.K. Vladmir Ward wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > > I've seen programs on the internet that throw numerous complex
                            > > equations at the CPU -- I used these to test a machine a couple
                            > > of times. After testing I popped the computer open and nearly scalded
                            > > myself. Granted the tests were running for about 20 hours, but I
                            > > think there's a good possibility you could blow out a CPU by throwing
                            > > too much at it over a long enough period.

                            Intel CPUs have had overheat protection for a long time, certainly all
                            P3s and P4s have it, and I think it went back to the Pentium. P3s hang,
                            but the CPU survives, and P4s actually slow down if they heat up too
                            much. AMD processors, on the other hand, will just burn right up if
                            left to their own devices. The newer Athlons do have some protection
                            circuitry but it requires support in the motherboard, and not many
                            motherboard manufacturers had bothered to implement it the last time
                            I looked. Thus the choice of a CPU fan and heatsink is crucial for
                            AMD Athlon, particularly if you intend to overclock.

                            Tom's Hardware, Anandtech, and other sites have more information
                            about CPU thermal protection. Some of these sites test by removing
                            the heatsink and fan, and seeing what happens. What I describe
                            above is what happens - it takes an Athlon less than 5 seconds
                            to just fry. P3 locks up, P4 slows down.

                            I seriously doubt you can damage the CPU in a Dell laptop, as they
                            all have Intel chips. You might be able to damage other components,
                            but Dell almost certainly runs programs similar to those I listed above
                            for a day or two on the final prototypes before they launch a new
                            laptop model.

                            --
                            John Cronin
                            mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
                          • jsc3@gtf.org
                            ... Lithium Ion batteries are far less likely to suffer from this than NiCad, or even NiMH, but they are not immune. I did some research on the web, and
                            Message 13 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                              Jim Diamond wrote:
                              >
                              > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 at 09:30 (-0500), jsc3@... wrote:
                              >
                              > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
                              > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
                              > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
                              > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
                              > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
                              > > discharging use.
                              >
                              > John (et al),
                              >
                              > I agree that NiCd batteries are much happier if you discharge them fully,
                              > but what I've read about Li-ion (and NiMH) batteries disagrees with that.
                              > From what I understand, they don't need the discharge cycle that NiCd
                              > batteries need.

                              Lithium Ion batteries are far less likely to suffer from this than
                              NiCad, or even NiMH, but they are not immune. I did some research on
                              the web, and survey says Lithium Ion batteries used as I described
                              will go toes up earlier than ones that are discharged and charged
                              more frequently.

                              > And, FWIW, the Dell docs said that the more discharge/charge experience the
                              > battery has, the more it wears out. This suggests to me one might to keep
                              > it charged up. So far (knock on wood) my battery seems fine.

                              How old is your system? Mine seemed fine until a couple of months ago.

                              > I'm sorry to hear that your battery went dead (especially that my I8K is
                              > coming up on 2 years this summer). Did you have an extrended warrantee?

                              Yes, I have the three year Complete Care.

                              > If so, is the battery covered? I got the 3 year warrantee, but I have this
                              > vague recollection of being unclear as to whether that covered the battery
                              > or not.

                              The battery is the ONLY component that is explicitly warranteed for ONLY
                              one year, no matter which plan you get.

                              --
                              John Cronin
                              mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
                            • W.K. Vladmir Ward
                              Errr, I d have to dig out the program again; it was a Win32 app, running on a Dell GX1 (desktop). I know one of them was calculating Pi, another one was some
                              Message 14 of 17 , Feb 3, 2003
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                                Errr, I'd have to dig out the program again; it was a
                                Win32 app, running on a Dell GX1 (desktop). I know one
                                of them was calculating Pi, another one was some
                                number sequence... I have it on the server at work,
                                I'll check it out tomorrow and let you know.

                                --- Sudhakar Govindavajhala
                                <sudhakar@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > can u be more specific as to what kinda things were
                                > exactly going on.
                                > what program is it? what machine is it? after all,
                                > i want to write such
                                > a program for my research!
                                >
                                > Sudahakr
                                >
                                > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, W.K. Vladmir Ward wrote:
                                >
                                > >
                                > > I've seen programs on the internet that throw
                                > numerous complex equations at the CPU -- I used
                                > these to test a machine a couple of times. After
                                > testing I popped the computer open and nearly
                                > scalded myself. Granted the tests were running for
                                > about 20 hours, but I think there's a good
                                > possibility you could blow out a CPU by throwing too
                                > much at it over a long enough period.
                                > > Sudhakar Govindavajhala

                                > <sudhakar@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > jsc3@g... writes:
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often
                                > leave it up for a week
                                > > > or
                                > > > > more. The only ill effect I got was the
                                > battery went dead after
                                > > > about
                                > > > > two years of this. This is a normal effect,
                                > in general. Batteries
                                > > > > work much better if you discharge them fully
                                > before charging, and
                                > > > they
                                > > > > don't generally do well if charged
                                > continuously with little or no
                                > > > > discharging use.
                                > > >
                                > > > The Latitude my I4150 replaced was left running
                                > with the lid closed
                                > > > for stretches of up to a couple of months with
                                > no adverse effects.
                                > > > The only time it ever got warm was when it was
                                > being pushed hard, and
                                > > > even then it wasn't a big deal.
                                > >
                                > > while we are on the topic, is it possible to
                                > actually burn the computer?
                                > > as a part of my research, i am interested in
                                > writing a program that can
                                > > generate enuf heat that there is a bit error. i
                                > want to stress the hw
                                > > thru sw to make an error. does this sound too
                                > good to be true? any ideas
                                > > of how else i can stress hw? if u know someother
                                > m/c on which this may
                                > > work, just let me know.
                                > >
                                > > Sudhakar.
                                > >
                                > > >
                                > > > To avoid damaging the battery, just pull it out;
                                > the laptop will run
                                > > > fine without it. If you want to fill the hole,
                                > Dell used to make a
                                > > > plug that looks like a battery but doesn't have
                                > anthing in it. (Or
                                > > > you could just release the battery and leave it
                                > sticking out a quarter
                                > > > inch.)
                                > > >
                                > > > -- Mark
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                >
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                              • Jim Diamond
                                ... I had read a detailed article by some people that appeared to have real technical knowledge, and my recollection was that they denied this problem with
                                Message 15 of 17 , Feb 19, 2003
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                                  On Mon, 3 Feb 2003 at 17:34 (-0500), jsc3@... wrote:

                                  > Jim Diamond wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > On Sun, 2 Feb 2003 at 09:30 (-0500), jsc3@... wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > > I have a 8000, it also gets hot, and I often leave it up for a week or
                                  > > > more. The only ill effect I got was the battery went dead after about
                                  > > > two years of this. This is a normal effect, in general. Batteries
                                  > > > work much better if you discharge them fully before charging, and they
                                  > > > don't generally do well if charged continuously with little or no
                                  > > > discharging use.
                                  > >
                                  > > John (et al),
                                  > >
                                  > > I agree that NiCd batteries are much happier if you discharge them fully,
                                  > > but what I've read about Li-ion (and NiMH) batteries disagrees with that.
                                  > > From what I understand, they don't need the discharge cycle that NiCd
                                  > > batteries need.
                                  >
                                  > Lithium Ion batteries are far less likely to suffer from this than
                                  > NiCad, or even NiMH, but they are not immune. I did some research on
                                  > the web, and survey says Lithium Ion batteries used as I described
                                  > will go toes up earlier than ones that are discharged and charged
                                  > more frequently.

                                  I had read a detailed article by some people that appeared to have real
                                  technical knowledge, and my recollection was that they denied this problem
                                  with Li-ion batteries. The web site is http://www.buchmann.ca/ but they
                                  have re-organized their documents since I last visited and I didn't
                                  immediately see the part that I recalled. However, regardless of my
                                  memory, I recommend this web site to any (layman) interested in the issues
                                  of different battery types.

                                  >> And, FWIW, the Dell docs said that the more discharge/charge experience the
                                  >> battery has, the more it wears out. This suggests to me one might to keep
                                  >> it charged up. So far (knock on wood) my battery seems fine.
                                  > How old is your system? Mine seemed fine until a couple of months ago.
                                  My system is now about 18 months old.

                                  >> I'm sorry to hear that your battery went dead (especially that my I8K is
                                  >> coming up on 2 years this summer). Did you have an extrended warrantee?
                                  > Yes, I have the three year Complete Care.
                                  >
                                  >> If so, is the battery covered? I got the 3 year warrantee, but I have this
                                  >> vague recollection of being unclear as to whether that covered the battery
                                  >> or not.
                                  >
                                  > The battery is the ONLY component that is explicitly warranteed for ONLY
                                  > one year, no matter which plan you get.
                                  That's disappointing... I'm sure I read that Way Back When, but since I
                                  haven't needed to know (knock on wood), I've forgotten the details.

                                  Cheers.

                                  Jim
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