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external keyboard/mouse kills built-in touchpad, am I the only one

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  • Peter Møller Neergaard
    I am using an Inspiron 4100 with Mandrake and a home built kernel 2.4.17. I ve been trying to connect an external keyboard or mouse to the system when working
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 27, 2002
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      I am using an Inspiron 4100 with Mandrake and a home built kernel
      2.4.17.

      I've been trying to connect an external keyboard or mouse to the
      system when working at home. I've experienced that every time I plug
      in a device (be it an external mouse or keyboard) in the PS/2 port on
      the back, then the mouse system dies. More specifically, if I read
      from /dev/psaux (say, using cat /dev/psaux) then I no longer get any
      output when moving the mouse.

      Is this the general behavior on Dell laptops? I tried the same scheme
      on my desktop, and there it caused no problems (but then again, my
      desktop do not have share keyboard/mouse port). Does anybody have a
      suggestion to avoid it?

      Thanks

      /Peter
      --
      http://www.linearity.org/turtle/contact.html
      ``When you have had all the experiences, met all the famous people,
      made some money, toured the world and got all the acclaim you still
      think--is that it? Some might be satisfied--but I wasn't'' -- G. Harrison
    • kev0153
      ... Is it a USB mouse and or keyboar. If so here is a pretty good page for configuring such items. http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x194.html If not maybe
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 28, 2002
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        --- In linux-dell-laptops@y..., Peter Møller Neergaard <turtle@a...>
        wrote:
        > I am using an Inspiron 4100 with Mandrake and a home built kernel
        > 2.4.17.
        >
        > I've been trying to connect an external keyboard or mouse to the
        > system when working at home. I've experienced that every time I plug
        > in a device (be it an external mouse or keyboard) in the PS/2 port on
        > the back, then the mouse system dies. More specifically, if I read
        > from /dev/psaux (say, using cat /dev/psaux) then I no longer get any
        > output when moving the mouse.
        >
        > Is this the general behavior on Dell laptops? I tried the same scheme
        > on my desktop, and there it caused no problems (but then again, my
        > desktop do not have share keyboard/mouse port). Does anybody have a
        > suggestion to avoid it?
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > /Peter


        Is it a USB mouse and or keyboar. If so here is a pretty good page
        for configuring such items.

        http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x194.html

        If not maybe check the BIOS. Going from memory as I am not in front
        of my laptop, but isn't there a page on configuring ps/2 port. Not sure.

        Kevin
      • Peter Møller Neergaard
        On March 1, 2002, Kevin wrote: K Is it a USB mouse and or keyboar. If so here is a pretty good page K for configuring such items. K
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 28, 2002
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          On March 1, 2002, Kevin wrote:

          K> Is it a USB mouse and or keyboar. If so here is a pretty good page
          K> for configuring such items.

          K> http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x194.html

          Thanks. I have already been over that page.

          The problem is not getting the keyboard or the mouse to work (be it as
          USB or on PS/2) par se---I can get everything up and running when I
          boot the machine with the devices plugin.

          The problem is that with the computer being a laptop, I would like to
          be able to unplug and replug the devices w/o having to reboot the
          machine and preferable also without restarting the X server.

          So far I have tried the following which in all cases have their
          various problems:

          - extern mouse or keyboard on the PS/2 port in tty. The keyboard
          works fine, but when I plug in anything on the PS/2 port, Linux's
          mouse device, /dev/psaux dies.

          More precisely, I tried the following
          1) cat /dev/psaux in a pure tty shell
          2) moving around on the touchpad will produce some random garbage as
          output from cat
          3) plug in a PS/2 keyboard or mouse
          4) moving around on the touchpad produces no output. Likewise with
          the mouse

          So somehow the part of the kernel handling the mouse (the module
          mousedev??) must have gotten severely confused and have stopped
          working. I have tested this both with the old device system and
          with a devfs file system.

          2) extern keyboard or mouse on PS/2 port under X. Same behavior as
          above: after plugging in the extern mouse, neither the touchpad nor
          the extern mouse will move the pointer.

          In this case, I can get the mouse pointer to work, by restarting
          the X server. This is unfortunate since it kills my current
          session.

          3) extern keyboard or mouse on USB under tty and X. Plugging in any
          device on a port makes it work. I have to admit that I at that
          point was impressed by the USB subsystem for its out-of-the-box
          behavior.

          The disadvantage is that my Inspiron only has one USB port so I'll
          need a USB hub if want both an external mouse and keyboard.
          (Plugging the keyboard into the PS/2 port is not an option since
          it, as outlined above, triggers the /dev/psaux to die.

          4) extern mouse and keyboard on an APR in the PS/2 behavior under X
          and tty. Same behavior as under 1) and 2), i.e., putting the
          laptop in the APR makes /dev/psaux (or consequently any mouse
          service) die.

          5) extern mouse and keyboard on an APR in the two USB ports on the
          APR. To work, this requires the laptop to be booted in the APR.
          Otherwise the USB system will still only recognize the one port built in
          to the Inspiron after plugging the laptop into the APR and after
          shutting down and restarting the system.

          And with the setup I cannot succesfully remove the laptop and then
          plug it back in later. I have tried the following
          1) shut down USB
          2) unplug it from the APR
          3) work unplugged for a while
          4) plug back into the APR
          5) start the USB system again.
          The mouse and keyboard will not work, but my kernel log is filled
          with the following warnings:

          Feb 28 18:14:41 pan kernel: usb-uhci.c: Host controller halted, trying to restart.
          Feb 28 18:14:42 pan last message repeated 35 times
          Feb 28 18:14:42 pan kernel: hub.c: Cannot enable port 1 of hub 1, disabling port.
          Feb 28 18:14:42 pan kernel: hub.c: Maybe the USB cable is bad?
          Feb 28 18:14:42 pan kernel: usb-uhci.c: Host controller halted, trying to restart.
          Feb 28 18:14:43 pan last message repeated 199 times
          Feb 28 18:14:43 pan kernel: hub.c: Cannot enable port 2 of hub 1, disabling port.

          So in all of the setups except just using the Inspiron's built in USB
          port I experience problem. Now all of this could be a bug in my
          particular hardware, a general problem of Dell laptops, or a bug in
          the Linux kernel. Since I only have one Dell laptop, I don't have any
          chance to rule out which of the three possibilities it is. And that
          it's why I am extremely curious on other people's experience. So I
          would appreciate if you (and other) would spend 5 minutes on trying
          one of the options.

          So at this point, I'm about to draw the conclusion that the best
          ``APR'' is buying a USB hub and stick to solution 3. Since I have a
          wireless card, I need only plug in the USB hub and a monitor and then
          I'll be connected.


          K> If not maybe check the BIOS. Going from memory as I am not in
          K> front of my laptop, but isn't there a page on configuring ps/2
          K> port. Not sure.

          I could find two options in my BIOS (Inspiron 4100, A04)>
          - ``USB legacy'' which supposedly enables USB keyboards on older legacy
          systems without a USB driver. I presume it could mean yet another
          mapping to the PS/2 port. Anyways, it didn't make any difference
          whether it was enabled or not.
          - ``pointing device'' where I can choose whether an external keyboard
          mouse overwrites the touchpad. There were no difference in
          behavior with the two options here.

          Best

          Peter
          --
          http://www.linearity.org/turtle/contact.html
          ``When you have had all the experiences, met all the famous people,
          made some money, toured the world and got all the acclaim you still
          think--is that it? Some might be satisfied--but I wasn't'' -- G. Harrison
        • Dr. Keith G. Bowden
          Anyone know how to change the (usb) mouse speed in Red Hat/Mandrake? Keith Bowden ... Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/ ... From:
          Message 4 of 7 , Mar 1 9:38 AM
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            Anyone know how to change the (usb) mouse speed in Red Hat/Mandrake?

            Keith Bowden

            -----------------------------------------------------
            Click here for Free Video!!
            http://www.gohip.com/free_video/

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Peter Mxller Neergaard <peter@...>
            To: <linux-dell-laptops@yahoogroups.com>
            Cc: kev0153 <kclark@...>
            Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 4:41 AM
            Subject: Re: [linux-dell-laptops] Re: external keyboard/mouse kills built-in
            touchpad, am I the only one


            > On March 1, 2002, Kevin wrote:
            >
            > K> Is it a USB mouse and or keyboar. If so here is a pretty good page
            > K> for configuring such items.
            >
            > K> http://www.linux-usb.org/USB-guide/x194.html
            >
            > Thanks. I have already been over that page.
            >
            > The problem is not getting the keyboard or the mouse to work (be it as
            > USB or on PS/2) par se---I can get everything up and running when I
            > boot the machine with the devices plugin.
            >
            > The problem is that with the computer being a laptop, I would like to
            > be able to unplug and replug the devices w/o having to reboot the
            > machine and preferable also without restarting the X server.
            >
            > So far I have tried the following which in all cases have their
            > various problems:
            >
            > - extern mouse or keyboard on the PS/2 port in tty. The keyboard
            > works fine, but when I plug in anything on the PS/2 port, Linux's
            > mouse device, /dev/psaux dies.
            >
            > More precisely, I tried the following
            > 1) cat /dev/psaux in a pure tty shell
            > 2) moving around on the touchpad will produce some random garbage as
            > output from cat
            > 3) plug in a PS/2 keyboard or mouse
            > 4) moving around on the touchpad produces no output. Likewise with
            > the mouse
            >
            > So somehow the part of the kernel handling the mouse (the module
            > mousedev??) must have gotten severely confused and have stopped
            > working. I have tested this both with the old device system and
            > with a devfs file system.
            >
            > 2) extern keyboard or mouse on PS/2 port under X. Same behavior as
            > above: after plugging in the extern mouse, neither the touchpad nor
            > the extern mouse will move the pointer.
            >
            > In this case, I can get the mouse pointer to work, by restarting
            > the X server. This is unfortunate since it kills my current
            > session.
            >
            > 3) extern keyboard or mouse on USB under tty and X. Plugging in any
            > device on a port makes it work. I have to admit that I at that
            > point was impressed by the USB subsystem for its out-of-the-box
            > behavior.
            >
            > The disadvantage is that my Inspiron only has one USB port so I'll
            > need a USB hub if want both an external mouse and keyboard.
            > (Plugging the keyboard into the PS/2 port is not an option since
            > it, as outlined above, triggers the /dev/psaux to die.
            >
            > 4) extern mouse and keyboard on an APR in the PS/2 behavior under X
            > and tty. Same behavior as under 1) and 2), i.e., putting the
            > laptop in the APR makes /dev/psaux (or consequently any mouse
            > service) die.
            >
            > 5) extern mouse and keyboard on an APR in the two USB ports on the
            > APR. To work, this requires the laptop to be booted in the APR.
            > Otherwise the USB system will still only recognize the one port built
            in
            > to the Inspiron after plugging the laptop into the APR and after
            > shutting down and restarting the system.
            >
            > And with the setup I cannot succesfully remove the laptop and then
            > plug it back in later. I have tried the following
            > 1) shut down USB
            > 2) unplug it from the APR
            > 3) work unplugged for a while
            > 4) plug back into the APR
            > 5) start the USB system again.
            > The mouse and keyboard will not work, but my kernel log is filled
            > with the following warnings:
            >
            > Feb 28 18:14:41 pan kernel: usb-uhci.c: Host controller halted, trying
            to restart.
            > Feb 28 18:14:42 pan last message repeated 35 times
            > Feb 28 18:14:42 pan kernel: hub.c: Cannot enable port 1 of hub 1,
            disabling port.
            > Feb 28 18:14:42 pan kernel: hub.c: Maybe the USB cable is bad?
            > Feb 28 18:14:42 pan kernel: usb-uhci.c: Host controller halted, trying
            to restart.
            > Feb 28 18:14:43 pan last message repeated 199 times
            > Feb 28 18:14:43 pan kernel: hub.c: Cannot enable port 2 of hub 1,
            disabling port.
            >
            > So in all of the setups except just using the Inspiron's built in USB
            > port I experience problem. Now all of this could be a bug in my
            > particular hardware, a general problem of Dell laptops, or a bug in
            > the Linux kernel. Since I only have one Dell laptop, I don't have any
            > chance to rule out which of the three possibilities it is. And that
            > it's why I am extremely curious on other people's experience. So I
            > would appreciate if you (and other) would spend 5 minutes on trying
            > one of the options.
            >
            > So at this point, I'm about to draw the conclusion that the best
            > ``APR'' is buying a USB hub and stick to solution 3. Since I have a
            > wireless card, I need only plug in the USB hub and a monitor and then
            > I'll be connected.
            >
            >
            > K> If not maybe check the BIOS. Going from memory as I am not in
            > K> front of my laptop, but isn't there a page on configuring ps/2
            > K> port. Not sure.
            >
            > I could find two options in my BIOS (Inspiron 4100, A04)>
            > - ``USB legacy'' which supposedly enables USB keyboards on older legacy
            > systems without a USB driver. I presume it could mean yet another
            > mapping to the PS/2 port. Anyways, it didn't make any difference
            > whether it was enabled or not.
            > - ``pointing device'' where I can choose whether an external keyboard
            > mouse overwrites the touchpad. There were no difference in
            > behavior with the two options here.
            >
            > Best
            >
            > Peter
            > --
            > http://www.linearity.org/turtle/contact.html
            > ``When you have had all the experiences, met all the famous people,
            > made some money, toured the world and got all the acclaim you still
            > think--is that it? Some might be satisfied--but I wasn't'' -- G. Harrison
            >
            >
            > --------------------------------------------------------------
            > Please post your X config files in the group links or database
            > To unsubscribe, email: linux-dell-laptops-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > FAQ: http://www.whacked.net/ldl/faq
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
          • Peter Møller Neergaard
            OK, of course it s a little bit odd being the only one replying to my own thread, but I got a little closer to understand the problem today. On February 28,
            Message 5 of 7 , Mar 1 11:58 AM
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              OK, of course it's a little bit odd being the only one replying to my
              own thread, but I got a little closer to understand the problem today.

              On February 28, 2002, I wrote:

              PMN> - extern mouse or keyboard on the PS/2 port in tty. The keyboard
              PMN> works fine, but when I plug in anything on the PS/2 port,
              PMN> Linux's mouse device, /dev/psaux dies.

              I got hold on a stash of PS/2 keyboards today. Plugging and
              unplugging worked fine with all those keyboards.

              So my conclusion is that this is a problem that is particular to my
              external keyboard which is a Logitech Cordless Desktop Pro. Some
              local Linux expert told me that it indeed was a known issue that Linux
              could have trouble with hotplugging of cordless devices due to longer
              response times from the keyboard.

              Guess, I'll have to see how Windoze handles this and then consider
              bugging Logitech, Dell, or both.

              /Peter
              --
              http://www.linearity.org/turtle/contact.html
              ``When you have had all the experiences, met all the famous people,
              made some money, toured the world and got all the acclaim you still
              think--is that it? Some might be satisfied--but I wasn't'' -- G. Harrison
            • jsc3@gtf.org
              Are you hot-plugging the PS2 stuff? PS2 stuff does NOT support hot plugging, at least not as far as I know. In fact, I have known people who fried their PS2
              Message 6 of 7 , Mar 1 12:13 PM
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                Are you hot-plugging the PS2 stuff? PS2 stuff does NOT support hot
                plugging, at least not as far as I know. In fact, I have known people
                who fried their PS2 connectors doing that and were forced to use USB
                mouse/keyboard because of it.

                If you boot Windows 98 and it doesn't detect a mouse, it tells you
                that if you have a USB mouse, go ahead and plug it in, but if you
                have a PS2 mouse, power down the computer before you attach it. I
                have seen this message many times while building systems.

                > OK, of course it's a little bit odd being the only one replying to my
                > own thread, but I got a little closer to understand the problem today.
                >
                > On February 28, 2002, I wrote:
                >
                > PMN> - extern mouse or keyboard on the PS/2 port in tty. The keyboard
                > PMN> works fine, but when I plug in anything on the PS/2 port,
                > PMN> Linux's mouse device, /dev/psaux dies.
                >
                > I got hold on a stash of PS/2 keyboards today. Plugging and
                > unplugging worked fine with all those keyboards.
                >
                > So my conclusion is that this is a problem that is particular to my
                > external keyboard which is a Logitech Cordless Desktop Pro. Some
                > local Linux expert told me that it indeed was a known issue that Linux
                > could have trouble with hotplugging of cordless devices due to longer
                > response times from the keyboard.
                >
                > Guess, I'll have to see how Windoze handles this and then consider
                > bugging Logitech, Dell, or both.

                --
                John Cronin
                mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
              • Peter Møller Neergaard
                On March 1, 2002, John Cronin wrote: j Are you hot-plugging the PS2 stuff? PS2 stuff does NOT support hot j plugging, at least not as far as I know. In
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 1 2:43 PM
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                  On March 1, 2002, John Cronin wrote:

                  j> Are you hot-plugging the PS2 stuff? PS2 stuff does NOT support hot
                  j> plugging, at least not as far as I know. In fact, I have known
                  j> people who fried their PS2 connectors doing that and were forced to
                  j> use USB mouse/keyboard because of it.

                  You are correct, I am hotplugging the PS/2 stuff. From what I've been
                  told, laptops are equipped with an electronic buffer that should make
                  it safe to hotplug even PS/2 stuff. So what you say should only be
                  true for desktop.

                  I tried searching Dell's support page for information about using an
                  extern keyboard, but could not find any details on plugging . But
                  since the laptop behaved similarly under Windoze, I have now put this
                  problem down as a an incident with Dell, I suppose they'll me what is
                  safe and not.

                  /Peter
                  --
                  http://www.linearity.org/turtle/contact.html
                  ``When you have had all the experiences, met all the famous people,
                  made some money, toured the world and got all the acclaim you still
                  think--is that it? Some might be satisfied--but I wasn't'' -- G. Harrison
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