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5988Re: [linux-dell-laptops] Re: Dell cancelling Linux on desktop and laptop systems.

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  • jsc3@havoc.gtf.org
    Aug 22, 2001
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      > Dell's little thing with Linux is all BS,
      > heres why ...
      > Dell is a mega-corporation, which means one thing and ONLY one thing, need
      > MUST make money and lots of it.
      > Lets see now ....
      > Supporting WIndows is pretty easy. Beacause most people know how to use it,
      > and it generally works well for whatever the average joe wants to do.
      > Windows == Cheap/Easy Support

      Yeah, generally a lot of manufacturers tend to just recommend reinstalling
      the OS using that rescue CD - what a pain if you have downloaded all the
      latest drivers, updates, etc - you get to go through all of that again.

      > Supporting Linux is pretty hard. Because most people don't know how to use
      > it, and you normally have to take a few extra steps to get things to work on
      > it. And linux sucks even more because the average joe *can't* do many things
      > on it. (quick time movies, major commerical games, etc) (additionally out
      > sourcing your linux support to companies like Redhat or linuxcare makes you
      > look bad because then it shows your company isn't smart enough to do linux in
      > the first place.)
      > Linux == Hard/Expensive Support

      I will agree, I guess. At least for now. But wait until the new
      Windows XP licensing model takes effect. You want to change your
      hardware again? Oops, you are over the limit, gotta call M$ and
      get a new key. You want dual processors? Oh, you have to pay
      for the Enterprise version (double or triple the price, at least).
      You want to run Windows under VMware, in addition to being able
      to dual boot it? Another license nightmare... If M$ keeps going
      this direction to capture all of the revenue they can, because of
      a perceived lack of growth opportunities in other directions, then
      the perceived ease of use will be diminished, particularly in
      multiple computer households (I have a desktop and a laptop, my
      wife and son each have a desktop, and my wife wants a laptop).
      In the future, M$ wants to make sure you have licenses for each
      and every one of those. To be sure, that is the law now, but
      how many people actually buy multiple licenses in this situation.
      I think I am a rarity in that I probably have more valid M$
      licenses than machines, just because I buy them used when
      necessary (anybody want a Windows ME license - what a piece
      of crap that OS is, crashes all the time, worse than Windows 98).

      > When Dell and their ODM's go out to create the next generation computer
      > system, those computer systems are tested to work ONLY with Microsoft. Dell,
      > and the ODM's they hire, don't give a damn about Linux or any other OS. So
      > why would Dell waste time to support and OS, it didn't even support at the
      > "creation level".

      This is absolutely true. Most of the manufacturers (but not all, mind you)
      don't take Linux into account at any phase of the design process.

      > Its all about business come to think of it. There never was much of demand
      > for linux on the desktop/laptop.

      I think this is largely due to the huge difference in marketing muscle,
      and the huge lead Windows had. I think in the future there will be more
      demand for Linux on the desktop, not as much as for Windows to be sure,
      but plenty none-the-less. For many folks who don't play games as much,
      Linux is VERY capable as an email client and a web browsing client.

      > There must be a hundred thousand customers
      > who purchased a dell system with windows, as opposed to the few hundred (not
      > even?) who asked for linux. In this case, dell would be *losing* money,
      > which is the last thing a mega corporation wants.

      Yes, but thousands more just bought their Dell with Windows, either because
      they couldn't find the model with Linux on it (since Dell did not make
      them easy to find), or because they were very limited in what what Dell
      offered them with Linux on it? This group here is proof that most of
      the people running Linux on Dell laptops did NOT buy them that way
      from Dell. It is also proof that some real work is left before Linux
      runs as smoothly on laptops as Windows does.

      > I'm pretty sure the corporate execs (whores) at dell aren't blind either. If
      > they see people like us giving grass root support for it, the last thing
      > they'd want to do is take their time and thier money to support linux then.
      > Linux has been very much community based, and it would suck a whole lot if it
      > weren't. (The last thing we need is for IBM and SGI to be deciding which
      > file system should be the defualt one in linux 3.0)

      Actually, both XFS and JFS are good filesystems, with proven track
      records. I for one would feel very happy if my Redhat 8.1 came with
      XFS as a standard supported filesystem. Unlike ReiserFS, XFS is proven
      in multiprocessor multithreaded applications, and it has a lot of
      basic utilities (such as a working dump and restore) that ReiserFS
      seems to lack. I for one think that IBM and SGI involvement is a
      good thing. To be sure, IBM is looking at using Linux for its
      own benefit, particularly as a way of getting back at M$. If
      IBM can put Linux on its servers, and avoid paying M$ for Windows
      licenses on them, it is quite happy to do so. I don't think
      IBM can take control of Linux - it is less able to do so than
      it was able to control Windows. Linux is a grassroots movement,
      and if IBM doesn't play the way the people wish, IBM will be
      ignored, even more effectively than M$ ignored them when they
      had differences of opinion.

      > Those are my two food stamps, and I'm always up for flames.

      No flames, just comments.

      > Sunny Dubey
      > PS: I'm also pretty damn sure Microsoft and Dell had something to do with
      > this. Somewhere in the twisted turn of events, I'm pretty sure Dell got
      > Microsoft products for cheaper than what they had when the did support Linux
      > on the desktop/laptop.

      I am also pretty sure the M$ encouraged Dell to ignore Linux, just as
      Intel encourages Dell to ignore AMD.

      > PPS: The server world is another story ...

      Yes it is, and that is the part the IBM is really interested in. Who
      knows what SGI is interested in, they have been sliding down a slippery
      slope to eventual oblivion for several years now. Their involvement
      with Linux at least gives us a chance to benefit from their technology
      before the eventual buyout by a larger company, at which point they
      will cease to exist and most of their technology will vanish in the
      commercial world (as happened with DEC when bought by Compaq).

      > PPPPS: for those of you, who were actually crazy enought to dowload the
      > Solaris ISO's off of sun.com and try installing it on your laptop know
      > exactly why support a totally weird OS doesn't make much sense. I tried, and
      > got some pretty weird results, heh.

      Solaris is not really interested in Intel hardware; I make a living
      doing Solaris work, and they have done a lot better than SGI, or
      anybody else, in the Unix server market. A lot of what you see is
      a reaction to the Linux world - Linux affects them more than it
      does M$, since Sun lives and dies in the server market. Sun cannot
      really try to be Linux, they need to largely keep doing what they
      have been doing in the server market, and leave the Intel world
      out of it. Even the guys who work at Sun don't use Solaris on their
      laptops - Solaris X86 is the proverbial red-headed-stepchild.

      John Cronin
      mailto: `echo NjsOc3@... | sed 's/[NOSPAM]//g'`
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