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  • lingwadeplaneta
    Attilio is translating Italian songs into Lidepla and, in order to make text fit music better, often adds the final -a to nouns, e.g. model= modela, dun= duna.
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 13, 2013
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      Attilio is translating Italian songs into Lidepla and, in order to make text fit music better, often adds the final -a to nouns, e.g. model=>modela, dun=>duna. What do you think about it? For me, it's mostly OK. Indeed, if in poetry we sometimes drop -a from nouns, why not allow also add this most frequent noun ending to nouns ending in a consonant, at least in poetry? There may seem to be a small problem when adding -a to the unstressed -um, -us, -er, -en: some people would think that it can change the stress: Anus=> anUsa, fOrum=forUma, skriber=>skribEra, depAtmen=>depatmEna.  However, as known from the grammar, "In any derivation the stress of the basic word isn't shifted" (with few exceptions), and the aforementioned adding of -a could be regarded as a poetical quasi-derivation, so the actual stress would still remain as in the basic word, namely Anusa, fOruma, skrIbera, depAtmena.

      The real problem with adding -a to nouns is that there are still some pairs of nouns differing only through presence/absence of the final -a. For example, dun and duna are nouns with different meaning, and so are kamin and kamina. This issue has been addressed already one and a half year ago:
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/lingwadeplaneta/message/491

      Since then, some of those pairs have been fixed, but some still persist. Maybe some of the rest should be changed too. Let's go through the whole list and see, what has been done and what can be done about the persisting pairs of such nouns.

      1.
      > * bar - bari, baring
      > Solution: probably may stay as it is. If a verb from "bar" is needed, one can say "fai bar". "Ta fai >bar kada semdi".

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestion: leave it.
      Verbal nouns from "bari" are likely to be "baring" and "barika", not "bara".

      2.
      > * bas - basa
      > Solution: bas => basu (Japanese version). The end vowel "u", as well as "o", can't desappear in derivation, and pairs like masa - masu, sensa - sensu exist already. Because we can't afford the luxury of long vowels or double consonants, we have to resort to suchlike means.
      >
      Actions taken: bas=>basu.


      3.
      > * boxa - boxi, boxing
      > Solution: probably may stay as it is, the word "box" has several meanings in English too
      >
      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestion: leave it.
      Boxing as sport is "boxing". Nouns meaning occupation, hobby, sport usually take -ing.


      4.
      > * chek - cheki, cheka
      > Solution 1: chek=> shek (French, German, some others, still "ch" seems more widespread).
      > Solution 2: leave it as it is, as the word "check" has several meanings in English too.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestion: no suggestion thus far.


      5.
      > * dun - duna
      > Solution 1: duna=> dyuna (Slavic).
      > Solution 2: duna => ramla-tudun (sand hillock)

      Actions taken: none yet.
      Suggestion: duna=>dyuna.


      6.
      > * etiket - etiketa
      > Solution: etiketa => label (Turkish)

      Actions taken:  etiketa => label.

       
      7.
      > * expres - expresi, expresa
      > Solution: leave it as it is.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestion: leave it. The meanings of a probable poetical *expresa are too different to be confused.


      8.
      > * fas - fasa
      > Solution: fasa => faza. Looks worse but nothing else to do.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: fasa => faza; or leave it as is, "phase" is a rare and a rather scientific word.


      9.
      > * fil - fila
      > Solution: fil => filu.

      Actions taken:  fil => filu.


      10.
      > * flor - flora
      > Solution 1: let it be. It is so in Spanish too.
      > Solution 2: flora => plantatot. But I think one day "flora" will come back anyway.

      Actions taken:  none.
      Suggestions: leave it. "Flora" is a rare scientific word, it isn't likely to be overused in poetry.


      11.
      > * flot - floti
      > Solution 1: Leave "flot" but use it with "mar" or "riva" or whatever: mar-flot, riva-flot, gwer-flot, komersa-flot. "Ta es admiral de gwer-flot".
      > Solution 2: flot => shiptot.

      Actions taken:  none.
      Suggestions: perhaps no problem leaving it as it is.


      12.
      > * gel - gela
      > Solution: gel = > jel, jela=> prison. "Prison" seems to be even more easily understandable.

      Actions taken:   gel = > jel, jela=> prison.


      13.
      > * general - generale
      > Solution: general => jeneral.

      Actions taken:  none.
      Suggestions: leave it. In many languages they sound the same.


      14.
      > * glas - glasa
      > Solution: make it one word, glas, with both meanings.

      Actions taken:  none.
      Suggestions: leave it.

       
      15.
      > * gol - gola
      > Solution 1: leave it as it is, as the word "goal" has several meanings in English too.
      > Solution 2: gol => goal.

      Actions taken:  none.
      Suggestions: leave it.


      16.
      > * jem - jema
      > Solution: jema => yema (Spanish)

      Actions taken:  jema => yema.


      17.
      > * kamin - kamina
      > Solution: kamin => chimnea (Spanish)

      Actions taken:  none.
      Suggestions: kamin => kaminus (Latin); agnilok (agni+lok). Attilio has suggested komin (Polish).


      18.
      > * kap - kapa
      > Although in Italian they are one word (capo), in most languages they are different, so I suggest
      > either kap => kabu (Portuguese "cabo") or kap => keip.

      Actions taken: kap => kabu.


      19.
      > * kil - kili, kila
      > Solution: kil => kilya (Italian). Or else "omurga" (Turkish), but smth like "kil" dominates.

      Actions taken:  kil => kilya.


      20.
      > * kod - koda
      > Solution: make it one word, koda, with two meanings.

      Actions taken:  now it is one word, koda, with 2 meanings.


      21.
      > * kok - koka
      > Solution: leave it alone.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: not sure.


      22.
      > * kuba - Kuba
      > Cuba isn't a cube and Cubans aren't cubic. So maybe kuba => kub.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: leave it. Too different meanings, context should help.


      23.
      > * lak - laka
      > Solution: lak => lagu (Portuguese "lago") or lak => loh (Irish, as in "Loh Ness"). "Lagu" seems better because "loh" is similar to the frequent suffix "lok".

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: laka=>laku? If change anything, then laka, as a rarer word.


      24.
      > * mat - mata
      > A difficult one. The best word for "checkmate" is definitely "mat". "mati" would mean "to checkmate" and at the same time it's a possible caressing form for "mata". Maybe it's OK because it is a verb in one case and a noun in the other.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: mat=>matu?


      25.
      > * mes - mesa
      > Solution: leave it.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: mesa => mesu? (Finnish "messu")


      26.
      > * pata - pati
      > Solution: leave it. "Pati" is a noun in one case (party, social gathering) and a verb in another (a potential verb from "pata").

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: leave it.


      27.
      > * pen - peni, pena
      > Solution: drop "pena, peni" altogether, using "eforti, eforta" or else "duh-eforti, duh-eforta" when needed.
      > "Peni" as "pence, penny" may peacefully coexist with "pen" as "tub".

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: not sure.


      28.
      > * pes - pesi, pesa
      > Solution: pesi => vegi, pesa => vega (Scandinavic).

      Actions taken: pesi => vegi, pesa => vega.


      29.
      > * pin - pina
      > Solution: pin => shanpin (Mandarin "shangpin"). It is even more exact.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: pin => tavara (Finnish, from Russian "tovar", compare also German "Ware").


      30.
      > * plan - plane
      > In Swedish, French, Portuguese it's one word, so we too may leave it.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: not sure. If allow add -a, "plana" can be confusing.


      32.
      > * plastik - plastika
      > Don't see any problem.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: leave it. Too different meanings,  context should help.


      33.
      > * pres - presi, presa
      > I think OK.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: pres => prasa (Polish); sihafa (Arabic).


      34.
      > * rol - roli
      > Solution: rol => ruola (Italian "ruolo").

      Actions taken: rol => ruola.


      35.
      > * sekret - sekreta

      Suggestions: sekreta => sikrita, sekreti => sikriti (secrete, produce by secretion)


      36.
      > * shal - shali, shala
      > Solution: shal => shol (English "shawl").

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: shal => shol.


      37.
      > * ton - tona
      > In Greek and Swedish it's the same word, only of different gender. Let's leave it.

      Actions taken: none.
      Suggestions: leave it.

      ======
      More news:
      Krzysztof Solyga is indefatigable in translating stories about Sherlock Holms. Now, after "The Scandalin Bohemia", he is translating the "Yellow Face":
      http://ldp.wikkii.com/wiki/Hwan_fas

      Besides, he began to translate a story by Gilbert Keith Chesterton, a little bit strange but nevertheless interesting "The Shop of Ghosts":
      http://ldp.wikkii.com/wiki/Shop_de_fantomes

      Swasti!

      Dimitri
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