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Can 1024 x 768 pixels be changed to within LB program

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  • Dan Kelly
    yeah, good question. I used to write programs and I am interested in getting back into it. Liberty Basic looks like I might enjoy using it, but I need to
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 26, 2010
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      yeah, good question. I used to write programs and I am interested in getting back into it. Liberty Basic looks like I might enjoy using it, but I need to know if it supports various resolutions and 8 bit and 16 bit color. 99% of the time 24 bit color is wayyy overkill for my purposes.

      Thanks,

      Danny

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    • rod_bird001
      ... You will enjoy using it so don t delay, get coding. About screen resolution. It s a bit of an old fashioned concept, old BASICs used to let you chop and
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 27, 2010
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        --- In libertybasic@yahoogroups.com, Dan Kelly <dannygjk@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > yeah, good question. I used to write programs and I am interested in getting back into it. Liberty Basic looks like I might enjoy using it, but I need to know if it supports various resolutions and 8 bit and 16 bit color. 99% of the time 24 bit color is wayyy overkill for my purposes.
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Danny
        >

        You will enjoy using it so don't delay, get coding. About screen resolution. It's a bit of an old fashioned concept, old BASICs used to let you chop and change screen type using less pixels for the same screen space so "speeding up" computation and reducing memory use for graphics. It's a bit of a different world now, the screen hardware is much more complex and users have much more control over how things are displayed on their desktop. Indeed many would be annoyed to have their resolution changed or even have a program blot out their desktop tools by going full screen.

        The reasons for doing it have been mitigated. The hardware works at 24bit or 32 bit resolution full stop. There is no saving to be made in display memory nor any need too as it is independent of the system memory.

        Color can be restricted but you are really just restricting the pallete rather than reducing memory use. BMP images will be smaller on disc but thata as far as it goes.

        Programs like Liberty work at 32bit or 64bit for some new processors. The 32bit dictates quite a few things, for example there is really no saing in choosing "integer" values because all numbers are stored as 4byte or 32bit values.

        But don't let me put you off. Get hold of Liberty and get coding and discover how easy it is to use and how simple GUI programing is.
      • Stefan Pendl
        ... Liberty BASIC will work on any resolution and any color depth, but you will gain nothing from reducing the color depth as Rod already said. LB does not
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 27, 2010
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          >
          > yeah, good question. I used to write programs and I am
          > interested in getting back into it. Liberty Basic looks like
          > I might enjoy using it, but I need to know if it supports
          > various resolutions and 8 bit and 16 bit color. 99% of the
          > time 24 bit color is wayyy overkill for my purposes.
          >
          > Thanks,
          >
          > Danny
          >

          Liberty BASIC will work on any resolution and any color depth, but you will gain nothing from reducing the color depth as Rod
          already said.

          LB does not work as old DOS based BASIC dialects, but takes full advantage of the Windows system by running in a regular window
          instead of a limited command prompt (DOS console).

          Modern Windows versions beginning with Windows 95 do not even fully support old DOS.

          If you think 24bit color depth is overkill, you will think 32bit color depth, the usual default, is even more overkill.

          ---
          Stefan Pendl

          Liberty BASIC Assist 4.03 ........ http://www.libertybasic.com/assist.html
          Liberty BASIC 4.04 RC2 ........... http://www.libertybasic.com/lb404setup.exe

          Books at http://www.lulu.com/ and http://www.amazon.com/
          Alyce Watson ... APIs for Liberty BASIC
          Carl Gundel .... Beginning Programming with Liberty BASIC

          Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit RTM
          AMD Turion X2 RM-70 2GHz, 4GB RAM
        • Richard
          ... If you reduce the color depth to 256 colors you can use palette animation , that is you can alter the displayed colors (almost instantaneously) by
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 27, 2010
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            --- In libertybasic@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Pendl" wrote:
            > you will gain nothing from reducing the color depth

            If you reduce the color depth to 256 colors you can use 'palette animation', that is you can alter the displayed colors (almost instantaneously) by changing the contents of the color palette rather than modifying the screen bitmap. Palette animation allows some special effects that aren't possible using a non-paletted display.

            This is one reason why Windows provides a 256-colors compatibility mode. To try this, right-click on a shortcut, select 'Properties... Compatibility... Run in 256 colors'.

            Richard.
          • danny_gjk
            ... ok... Maybe i need to explain I am a hobbyist. I don t have the time to spend 100 hours to graphically accomplish the same thing in 32 bit or 24 bit that
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 27, 2010
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              --- In libertybasic@yahoogroups.com, "rod_bird001" <rodbird@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In libertybasic@yahoogroups.com, Dan Kelly <dannygjk@> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > yeah, good question. I used to write programs and I am interested in getting back into it. Liberty Basic looks like I might enjoy using it, but I need to know if it supports various resolutions and 8 bit and 16 bit color. 99% of the time 24 bit color is wayyy overkill for my purposes.
              > >
              > > Thanks,
              > >
              > > Danny
              > >
              ok...
              Maybe i need to explain
              I am a hobbyist. I don't have the time to spend 100 hours to graphically accomplish the same thing in 32 bit or 24 bit that i can do at 16 bit. Look at a 16 bit depth color image and you will see a sunset at 16 bit looks fine. Memory or processing time is not an issue, but development time is. My projects would look exactly the same in 16 or 32 bit color.
              *sigh* I guess in a few years I'll need to use 32 bit color to implement a Tic-Tac-Toe program.
              >
              > You will enjoy using it so don't delay, get coding. About screen resolution. It's a bit of an old fashioned concept, old BASICs used to let you chop and change screen type using less pixels for the same screen space so "speeding up" computation and reducing memory use for graphics. It's a bit of a different world now, the screen hardware is much more complex and users have much more control over how things are displayed on their desktop. Indeed many would be annoyed to have their resolution changed or even have a program blot out their desktop tools by going full screen.
              >
              > The reasons for doing it have been mitigated. The hardware works at 24bit or 32 bit resolution full stop. There is no saving to be made in display memory nor any need too as it is independent of the system memory.
              >
              > Color can be restricted but you are really just restricting the pallete rather than reducing memory use. BMP images will be smaller on disc but thata as far as it goes.
              >
              > Programs like Liberty work at 32bit or 64bit for some new processors. The 32bit dictates quite a few things, for example there is really no saing in choosing "integer" values because all numbers are stored as 4byte or 32bit values.
              >
              > But don't let me put you off. Get hold of Liberty and get coding and discover how easy it is to use and how simple GUI programing is.
              >
            • danny_gjk
              ... ok... Maybe i need to explain I am a hobbyist. I don t have the time to spend 100 hours to graphically accomplish the same thing in 32 bit or 24 bit that
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 27, 2010
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                --- In libertybasic@yahoogroups.com, "rod_bird001" <rodbird@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In libertybasic@yahoogroups.com, Dan Kelly <dannygjk@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > yeah, good question. I used to write programs and I am interested in getting back into it. Liberty Basic looks like I might enjoy using it, but I need to know if it supports various resolutions and 8 bit and 16 bit color. 99% of the time 24 bit color is wayyy overkill for my purposes.
                > >
                > > Thanks,
                > >
                > > Danny
                > >
                >
                > You will enjoy using it so don't delay, get coding. About screen resolution. It's a bit of an old fashioned concept, old BASICs used to let you chop and change screen type using less pixels for the same screen space so "speeding up" computation and reducing memory use for graphics. It's a bit of a different world now, the screen hardware is much more complex and users have much more control over how things are displayed on their desktop. Indeed many would be annoyed to have their resolution changed or even have a program blot out their desktop tools by going full screen.
                >
                > The reasons for doing it have been mitigated. The hardware works at 24bit or 32 bit resolution full stop. There is no saving to be made in display memory nor any need too as it is independent of the system memory.
                >
                > Color can be restricted but you are really just restricting the pallete rather than reducing memory use. BMP images will be smaller on disc but thata as far as it goes.
                >
                > Programs like Liberty work at 32bit or 64bit for some new processors. The 32bit dictates quite a few things, for example there is really no saing in choosing "integer" values because all numbers are stored as 4byte or 32bit values.
                >
                > But don't let me put you off. Get hold of Liberty and get coding and discover how easy it is to use and how simple GUI programing is.
                >
                ok...
                Maybe i need to explain
                I am a hobbyist. I don't have the time to spend 100 hours to graphically accomplish the same thing in 32 bit or 24 bit that i can do at 16 bit. Look at a 16 bit depth color image and you will see a sunset at 16 bit looks fine. Memory or processing time is not an issue, but development time is. My projects would look exactly the same in 16 or 32 bit color.
              • danny_gjk
                ... Also, I m getting the impression that there is only one routine for arithmetic calculations. The help file says that integers are stored as integers,
                Message 7 of 12 , May 1, 2010
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                  --- In libertybasic@yahoogroups.com, "danny_gjk" <dannygjk@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In libertybasic@yahoogroups.com, "rod_bird001" <rodbird@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In libertybasic@yahoogroups.com, Dan Kelly <dannygjk@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > yeah, good question. I used to write programs and I am interested in getting back into it. Liberty Basic looks like I might enjoy using it, but I need to know if it supports various resolutions and 8 bit and 16 bit color. 99% of the time 24 bit color is wayyy overkill for my purposes.
                  > > >
                  Also, I'm getting the impression that there is only one 'routine' for arithmetic calculations. The help file says that integers are stored as integers, fractional numbers I suppose are stored in a floating point format. However, are arithmetic operations at the machine code level all performed using a floating point routine? Using a floating point routine for even integer operations would be very inefficient. I hope that's not how it works. I can't find a page with detailed specs on LB. Please direct me if there is such a thing. I'm starting to think I may as well go with another language. Maybe even go back to assembly language, lol
                  > > > Thanks,
                  > > >
                  > > > Danny
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > You will enjoy using it so don't delay, get coding. About screen resolution. It's a bit of an old fashioned concept, old BASICs used to let you chop and change screen type using less pixels for the same screen space so "speeding up" computation and reducing memory use for graphics. It's a bit of a different world now, the screen hardware is much more complex and users have much more control over how things are displayed on their desktop. Indeed many would be annoyed to have their resolution changed or even have a program blot out their desktop tools by going full screen.
                  > >
                  > > The reasons for doing it have been mitigated. The hardware works at 24bit or 32 bit resolution full stop. There is no saving to be made in display memory nor any need too as it is independent of the system memory.
                  > >
                  > > Color can be restricted but you are really just restricting the pallete rather than reducing memory use. BMP images will be smaller on disc but thata as far as it goes.
                  > >
                  > > Programs like Liberty work at 32bit or 64bit for some new processors. The 32bit dictates quite a few things, for example there is really no saing in choosing "integer" values because all numbers are stored as 4byte or 32bit values.
                  > >
                  > > But don't let me put you off. Get hold of Liberty and get coding and discover how easy it is to use and how simple GUI programing is.
                  > >
                  > ok...
                  > Maybe i need to explain
                  > I am a hobbyist. I don't have the time to spend 100 hours to graphically accomplish the same thing in 32 bit or 24 bit that i can do at 16 bit. Look at a 16 bit depth color image and you will see a sunset at 16 bit looks fine. Memory or processing time is not an issue, but development time is. My projects would look exactly the same in 16 or 32 bit color.
                  >
                • rod_bird001
                  Also, I m getting the impression that there is only one routine for arithmetic calculations. The help file says that integers are stored as integers,
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 1, 2010
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                    Also, I'm getting the impression that there is only one 'routine' for arithmetic
                    calculations. The help file says that integers are stored as integers,
                    fractional numbers I suppose are stored in a floating point format. However,
                    are arithmetic operations at the machine code level all performed using a
                    floating point routine? Using a floating point routine for even integer
                    operations would be very inefficient.

                    most if nit all computers work at 32bit so too the maths coprocessor. So that means that even if you define an 8bit integer in a modern system it is stored as 32bits and processed as 32bits. Very very quickly.

                    Recognising this Liberty does not require that you type variables ahead of their use. They change type automatically and easily, if there is ever a value after the decimal point it is stored as a float else it is stored as an integer. Still at 32bits but in a different bit format.

                    Shrug off all your doubts jump in and join the fun you will find lots of things have changed for the better.
                  • Stefan Pendl
                    ... LB does automatically decide, if a numerical variable is an integer or a float based on its content. If an integer variable gets decimal places added due
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 1, 2010
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                      > > > > yeah, good question. I used to write programs and I am
                      > interested in getting back into it. Liberty Basic looks like
                      > I might enjoy using it, but I need to know if it supports
                      > various resolutions and 8 bit and 16 bit color. 99% of the
                      > time 24 bit color is wayyy overkill for my purposes.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > Also, I'm getting the impression that there is only one
                      > 'routine' for arithmetic calculations. The help file says
                      > that integers are stored as integers, fractional numbers I
                      > suppose are stored in a floating point format. However, are
                      > arithmetic operations at the machine code level all performed
                      > using a floating point routine? Using a floating point
                      > routine for even integer operations would be very
                      > inefficient. I hope that's not how it works. I can't find a
                      > page with detailed specs on LB. Please direct me if there is
                      > such a thing. I'm starting to think I may as well go with
                      > another language. Maybe even go back to assembly language, lol

                      LB does automatically decide, if a numerical variable is an integer or a float based on its content.

                      If an integer variable gets decimal places added due to some calculation, the variable will be converted to a float and vice-versa.

                      What routines are used to calculate can only be answered by Carl.

                      ---
                      Stefan Pendl

                      Liberty BASIC Assist 4.03 ........ http://www.libertybasic.com/assist.html
                      Liberty BASIC 4.04 RC2 ........... http://www.libertybasic.com/lb404setup.exe

                      Books at http://www.lulu.com/ and http://www.amazon.com/
                      Alyce Watson ... APIs for Liberty BASIC
                      Carl Gundel .... Beginning Programming with Liberty BASIC

                      Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit RTM
                      AMD Turion X2 RM-70 2GHz, 4GB RAM
                    • rod_bird001
                      I am a hobbyist. I don t have the time to spend 100 hours to graphically accomplish the same thing in 32 bit or 24 bit that i can do at 16 bit. Look at a 16
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 1, 2010
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                        I am a hobbyist. I don't have the time to spend 100 hours to graphically
                        accomplish the same thing in 32 bit or 24 bit that i can do at 16 bit. Look at
                        a 16 bit depth color image and you will see a sunset at 16 bit looks fine.
                        Memory or processing time is not an issue, but development time is. My projects
                        would look exactly the same in 16 or 32 bit color.


                        You may use 16bit color graphics, you may use 2bit color graphics. Just like your old BASIC. You can reduce the color depth as much as you want It matters not that the screen will still be rendered in 24bit color, only your choosen colors will display and you will have computed fewer colors in your program.

                        However if your ultimate aim is dancing shaded blobs of color or similar funky animated graphics then you may indeed be relearning machine code:).
                      • John Fisher
                        Give LB a try! I ve been programming since 1968, at various levels, with machines based on binary coded decimal and various formats of integers and floats.
                        Message 11 of 12 , May 1, 2010
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                          Give LB a try!
                          I've been programming since 1968, at various levels, with machines based
                          on binary coded decimal and various formats of integers and floats. I've
                          used languages from Titan Autocode (early version of Fortran) via Lisp,
                          Forth, Basic, Java, Javascript, C, C# and all other sorts. Always as an
                          amateur..My first coding on microprocessers was hand toggling eight
                          switches to enter single opcodes in a 256 byte RAM home-built Cosmac Elf
                          on an 1802 processer. ...you had to key in a bootloader by hand, with no
                          errors.....
                          I see your point, but disagree. The important thing is to have an easy
                          way to program. I run assemblers and compilers that will produce code
                          for PIC processers on occasion or even hand-code, if I want to make a
                          stand-alone, battery operated micropowered special device.
                          When I first wanted to program graphics, there were no pixel mapped vdu
                          displays. You had to send strings of binary data to a line printer-
                          spaces, then an asterisk where you wanted the point 'plotting'. It gave
                          great resolution- on later wide-carriage Epson dot matrix printers it
                          was higher than most modern VDU screens.

                          As others have already commented, INTERNALLY the language and the
                          hardware decide how to handle your variables and numbers. It's so easy
                          to accept this and concentrate on the algorithm YOU want to implement.

                          You haven't said whar kind of task you want to implement. But I can
                          think of few where I have any hesitation in recommending LB.

                          Don't 'throw away the baby ( LB) with the bathwater ( your hesitation to
                          accept a different 'take' on how to do things.)
                        • Stefan Pendl
                          ... So you like to display an image? LB does display images of any color depths, there is no restriction to the color depth, only to the format that is
                          Message 12 of 12 , May 1, 2010
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                            > > >
                            > > > yeah, good question. I used to write programs and I am
                            > interested in getting back into it. Liberty Basic looks like
                            > I might enjoy using it, but I need to know if it supports
                            > various resolutions and 8 bit and 16 bit color. 99% of the
                            > time 24 bit color is wayyy overkill for my purposes.
                            > >
                            > ok...
                            > Maybe i need to explain
                            > I am a hobbyist. I don't have the time to spend 100 hours to
                            > graphically accomplish the same thing in 32 bit or 24 bit
                            > that i can do at 16 bit. Look at a 16 bit depth color image
                            > and you will see a sunset at 16 bit looks fine. Memory or
                            > processing time is not an issue, but development time is. My
                            > projects would look exactly the same in 16 or 32 bit color.
                            >

                            So you like to display an image?

                            LB does display images of any color depths, there is no restriction to the color depth, only to the format that is supported by the
                            native commands.

                            LB can display 2, 4, 8, 16, 24 and 32-bit color depth BMPs, so the restriction is the image format, not the color palette.

                            On the other hand LB will always save images in the color depth of the current display settings.

                            So the question is, what do you like to do?

                            The BMP file format is easy and described at http://www.wotsit.org/, since it is a simple text file with a header, it can be created
                            easily.

                            You can check out http://justbasic.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=games&action=display&num=1231882826 for a BMP-file-parser, see the
                            last post.

                            ---
                            Stefan Pendl

                            Liberty BASIC Assist 4.03 ........ http://www.libertybasic.com/assist.html
                            Liberty BASIC 4.04 RC2 ........... http://www.libertybasic.com/lb404setup.exe

                            Books at http://www.lulu.com/ and http://www.amazon.com/
                            Alyce Watson ... APIs for Liberty BASIC
                            Carl Gundel .... Beginning Programming with Liberty BASIC

                            Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit RTM
                            AMD Turion X2 RM-70 2GHz, 4GB RAM
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