## Charting Alice's Fall

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• The rabbit-hole went straight on like a tunnel for some way, and then dipped suddenly down...she found herself falling down what appeared to be a very deep
Message 1 of 7 , Jun 1, 2002
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The rabbit-hole went straight on like a tunnel for some way, and
then dipped suddenly down...she found herself falling down what
appeared to be a very deep well..."I wonder how many miles I've
fallen by this time" she said aloud. "I must be getting somewhere
near the centre of the earth. Let me see: that would be four thousand
miles down, I think - "..." - yes, that's about the right distance -
but then I wonder what Latitude or Longitude I've got to?"

It would be more correct for Alice to use distance from the
center of the earth rather than elevation above sea level. So
assuming she had fallen 20,000,000 feet, her location would be
approximately Lat 50 N 6 min, Lon 1 W 3 min,* Radius 1,120,000 ft.,
or 212.121212...miles.

The latitude and longitude would not have changed once she began
her fall, for a latitude and a longitude define a straight line, or
technically a ray, starting at the center of the earth and passing
through the designated latitude/longitude at sea level. However,
Alice's question may make sense in a way, for any latitude and
longitude would be correct - you can get to the center of the earth
by moving 4000 miles down from any latitude and longitude.
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* Does anyone know Oxford's exact map coordinates?
• CLD s rooms in Oxford were 51.75 degrees North and 1.26 degrees west. Where s this going though? Compared to the distance through the earth any elevation of
Message 2 of 7 , Jun 1, 2002
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CLD's rooms in Oxford were 51.75 degrees North and 1.26 degrees west.
Where's this going though?

Compared to the distance through the earth any elevation of land features is
on a minute scale! The earth would be less 'bumpy' than a billiard ball if
drawn to that scale!

Keith

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> * Does anyone know Oxford's exact map coordinates?
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• ... CLD s rooms in Oxford were 51.75 degrees North and 1.26 degrees west. Where s this going though? *********** That s what I was thinking, Keith. If the
Message 3 of 7 , Jun 1, 2002
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--- In lewiscarroll@y..., "keith" wrote:

CLD's rooms in Oxford were 51.75 degrees North and 1.26 degrees west.
Where's this going though?
***********
That's what I was thinking, Keith. If the rabbit hole went through
the centre of the earth and came all the way up to the opposite side,
where, I wonder, would it surface, and what would be that latitude
and longitude?
• Probably New Zealand - 42 degrees? Kate ... From: knaveofarts To: lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 12:47 PM Subject: [lewiscarroll] Re:
Message 4 of 7 , Jun 1, 2002
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Probably New Zealand - 42 degrees?
Kate
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 12:47 PM
Subject: [lewiscarroll] Re: Charting Alice's Fall

--- In lewiscarroll@y..., "keith" wrote:

CLD's rooms in Oxford were 51.75 degrees North and 1.26 degrees west.
Where's this going though?
***********
That's what I was thinking, Keith. If the rabbit hole went through
the centre of the earth and came all the way up to the opposite side,
where, I wonder, would it surface, and what would be that latitude
and longitude?

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• You would end up in the sea a few hundred miles from the appropriately named Antipodes Island south west of New Zealand! Keith ... From: knaveofarts
Message 5 of 7 , Jun 1, 2002
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You would end up in the sea a few hundred miles from the appropriately named
Antipodes Island south west of New Zealand!

Keith

----- Original Message -----
From: "knaveofarts" <greydust2002@...>
To: <lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 1:47 AM
Subject: [lewiscarroll] Re: Charting Alice's Fall

> --- In lewiscarroll@y..., "keith" wrote:
>
>
> CLD's rooms in Oxford were 51.75 degrees North and 1.26 degrees west.
> Where's this going though?
> ***********
> That's what I was thinking, Keith. If the rabbit hole went through
> the centre of the earth and came all the way up to the opposite side,
> where, I wonder, would it surface, and what would be that latitude
> and longitude?
>
>
>
> to unsubscribe send a blank email to:
lewiscarroll-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
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• In a message dated 6/2/02 1:50:07 AM GMT Daylight Time, ... I think it would be latitude 178.74 degrees east, longditude 51.75 degrees south. Silly question
Message 6 of 7 , Jun 2, 2002
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In a message dated 6/2/02 1:50:07 AM GMT Daylight Time, greydust2002@... writes:

That's what I was thinking, Keith. If the rabbit hole went through
the centre of the earth and came all the way up to the opposite side,
where, I wonder, would it surface, and what would be that latitude
and longitude?

I think it would be latitude 178.74 degrees east, longditude 51.75 degrees south.

Silly question maybe - but why assume the rabbit hole is in Oxford? Come to that where IS thenon-dream part of the story set? If we go back to the original 'Underground Alice' then we get some puzzling clues. Wherever the story is set it doesn't appear to be Oxford and it isn't in 1862.  Dodgson suggests this by  creating a  dream sequence at the end of the book in which 'Underground Alice's sister sees Oxford ( 'an ancient city' ), the Liddell children and Dodgson telling them the story of 'Underground Alice's adventures. From the Liddells' perspective we are told that 'Underground Alice' lived a long time ago. So, Dodgson is deliberately distancing  his 'Alice' both in time and space from Oxford in the mid-19th C, and at the same time emphasising a sort of independent reality for her. I wonder if he had any other specific place and period in mind as her 'home'. Or was he just creating a device to lend a mythic timelessness to his story?

Mike
• Mike, Alice was seven so the story relates to the period between May 1859 and November 1859. She s seven and a half in the second story, which is why I say
Message 7 of 7 , Jun 2, 2002
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Mike,

Alice was seven so the story relates to the period between May 1859 and November 1859.   She's seven and a half in the second story, which is why I say Alice's adventures must be before November 1859 and as the Hatter's tea party gives the date as May then that fits.   So that TTLG is sometime in November 1859  but the flowers being in bloom do not fit with that latter date.  Unfortunately the diary for that period is missing so we cannot see if either story is based upon real events other than by conjecture.  I tend to think it was as you say, an attempt to put Alice into a dream world using places she would be familiar with as pointers.  Dodgson did that with other stories as Gertrude Chataway said about his stories on the IOW.

If the story was not in Oxford the setting makes little difference to the antipodes, anywhere in England has sea directly opposite it!!  Oxford, London, Lllandudno even - it makes little difference!

Keith

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Re: Charting Alice's Fall

In a message dated 6/2/02 1:50:07 AM GMT Daylight Time, greydust2002@... writes:

That's what I was thinking, Keith. If the rabbit hole went through
the centre of the earth and came all the way up to the opposite side,
where, I wonder, would it surface, and what would be that latitude
and longitude?

I think it would be latitude 178.74 degrees east, longditude 51.75 degrees south.

Silly question maybe - but why assume the rabbit hole is in Oxford? Come to that where IS thenon-dream part of the story set? If we go back to the original 'Underground Alice' then we get some puzzling clues. Wherever the story is set it doesn't appear to be Oxford and it isn't in 1862.  Dodgson suggests this by  creating a  dream sequence at the end of the book in which 'Underground Alice's sister sees Oxford ( 'an ancient city' ), the Liddell children and Dodgson telling them the story of 'Underground Alice's adventures. From the Liddells' perspective we are told that 'Underground Alice' lived a long time ago. So, Dodgson is deliberately distancing  his 'Alice' both in time and space from Oxford in the mid-19th C, and at the same time emphasising a sort of independent reality for her. I wonder if he had any other specific place and period in mind as her 'home'. Or was he just creating a device to lend a mythic timelessness to his story?

Mike

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