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Re: Use of the term "Alice in Wonderland"

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  • Deb
    Well I am going to be even more technical and say that Humpty Dumpty is neither a Wonderland nor a Looking-glass character. Humpty is a nursery rhyme character
    Message 1 of 19 , Jan 2, 2013
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      Well I am going to be even more technical and say that Humpty Dumpty is neither a Wonderland nor a Looking-glass character. Humpty is a nursery rhyme character that pre-existed both worlds. Both Wonderland and Looking-glass worlds are populated by familiar nursery characters and some of Carroll's own invention.

      As a child I imagined Wonderland and Looking-glass were at least neighbouring kingdoms in the same world. Where the Snark lives is of course, the unexplored antipodean new world of the same realm. It's just the same with other imagined worlds Hobbiton is in the same Middle Earth as Gondor; the land of Oz also has different parts. And in my imagination, at least there is a connection between all imagined worlds: Wondeeland, Oz, Middle Earth, Narnia.

      --- In lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com, "lilongjr@..." <lilongjr@...> wrote:
      >
      > I have to jump in here. Humpty was NOT a character in "Alice in Wonderland"
      > (and, yes, I know that's not the actual title), but of "Through the
      > Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There" (which IS the actual title of that
      > book <G>; I'm nothing if not inconsistent). HOWEVER, many people who have
      > only seen one or more of the films and/or television versions of the stories
      > will think of him as a Wonderland character, as he seems to be in everyone's
      > version of the first book. In fact, most of the filmed versions of the book
      > contain characters from both books. So whether one believes Humpty (and
      > several others) to be a Wonderland character may simply be a measure of
      > their exposure to modern media and/or literary classics.
      >
      > Luke Owens
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -------Original Message-------
      >
      > From: Michael Everson
      > Date: 2012-12-30 07:35:10
      > To: lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Use of the term "Alice in Wonderland"
      >
      > On 30 Dec 2012, at 14:33, Guy <guy.barry@...> wrote:
      >
      > > A contributor to another group has claimed that the term "Alice in
      > Wonderland" is sometimes used to refer collectively to the two Alice books.
      > Is this true?
      >
      > Not by anyone who knows what they are talking about.
      >
      > > As far as I'm concerned it refers only to the first one. Or is it all
      > right to say that (e.g.) "Humpty Dumpty is an Alice in Wonderland character
      > ?
      >
      > No. But one may say "Humpty Dumpty is a Wonderland character"
      >
      > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
    • lilongjr@yahoo.com
      The Wood Between the Worlds, perhaps? Though I d prefer Callahan s Place, myself. Luke ... From: Deb Date: 2013-01-02 14:24:51 To:
      Message 2 of 19 , Jan 3, 2013
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        The Wood Between the Worlds, perhaps? Though I'd prefer Callahan's Place, myself. <G>
         
        Luke 
         
         
         
         
        -------Original Message-------
         
        From: Deb
        Date: 2013-01-02 14:24:51
        Subject: [lewiscarroll] Re: Use of the term "Alice in Wonderland"
         
        Well I am going to be even more technical and say that Humpty Dumpty is neither a Wonderland nor a Looking-glass character. Humpty is a nursery rhyme character that pre-existed both worlds. Both Wonderland and Looking-glass worlds are populated by familiar nursery characters and some of Carroll's own invention.
         
        As a child I imagined Wonderland and Looking-glass were at least neighbouring kingdoms in the same world. Where the Snark lives is of course, the unexplored antipodean new world of the same realm. It's just the same with other imagined worlds Hobbiton is in the same Middle Earth as Gondor; the land of Oz also has different parts. And in my imagination, at least there is a connection between all imagined worlds: Wondeeland, Oz, Middle Earth, Narnia.
         
        --- In lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com, "lilongjr@..." <lilongjr@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have to jump in here. Humpty was NOT a character in "Alice in Wonderland"
        > (and, yes, I know that's not the actual title), but of "Through the
        > Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There" (which IS the actual title of that
        > book <G>; I'm nothing if not inconsistent). HOWEVER, many people who have
        > only seen one or more of the films and/or television versions of the stories
        > will think of him as a Wonderland character, as he seems to be in everyone's
        > version of the first book. In fact, most of the filmed versions of the book
        > contain characters from both books. So whether one believes Humpty (and
        > several others) to be a Wonderland character may simply be a measure of
        > their exposure to modern media and/or literary classics.
        >
        > Luke Owens
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -------Original Message-------
        >
        > From: Michael Everson
        > Date: 2012-12-30 07:35:10
        > Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Use of the term "Alice in Wonderland"
        >
        > On 30 Dec 2012, at 14:33, Guy <guy.barry@...> wrote:
        >
        > > A contributor to another group has claimed that the term "Alice in
        > Wonderland" is sometimes used to refer collectively to the two Alice books.
        > Is this true?
        >
        > Not by anyone who knows what they are talking about.
        >
        > > As far as I'm concerned it refers only to the first one.  Or is it all
        > right to say that (e.g.) "Humpty Dumpty is an Alice in Wonderland character
        > ?
        >
        > No. But one may say "Humpty Dumpty is a Wonderland character"
        >
        > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
         
         
         
         
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      • John Tufail
        Isn t this a rather silly debate? First, to say that Humpty dumpty is neither a Wonderland not a Looking Glass character rather misses rthe point. It was the
        Message 3 of 19 , Jan 3, 2013
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          Isn't this a rather silly debate?
           
          First, to say that Humpty dumpty 'is neither a Wonderland not a Looking Glass' character rather misses rthe point. It was the genious of Lewis Carroll that he actually CREATED characters (in both the 'Alice' books from previously wooden nursery rhyme figures.  Carroll gave character to everyone from Humpty Dumpty to the March Hare, From the Knave of Hearts  to the Gryphon.  And he did it with superb humour.
           
          Secondly,
           
          Although purists may hate it,  Film makers from Disney to Burton, I believe, have actually paid Carroll a compliment by subsuming the two Alice books.  They have acknowledged that the format of cinema is too limited in time to attempt to portray the complexity of Carroll's idea of 'Nonsense' by being 'true' to either 'Wonderland' or 'Looking Glass'.   I admit I am a 'purist' and cringe sometimes about the conflation  of the two books.  But the fact is that film makers work within their own limitations.  On the whole. I believe, even the Disney version has not done a bad job.
           
          Regards
           
          JT

          On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Deb <haddoxeyes@...> wrote:
           

          Well I am going to be even more technical and say that Humpty Dumpty is neither a Wonderland nor a Looking-glass character. Humpty is a nursery rhyme character that pre-existed both worlds. Both Wonderland and Looking-glass worlds are populated by familiar nursery characters and some of Carroll's own invention.

          As a child I imagined Wonderland and Looking-glass were at least neighbouring kingdoms in the same world. Where the Snark lives is of course, the unexplored antipodean new world of the same realm. It's just the same with other imagined worlds Hobbiton is in the same Middle Earth as Gondor; the land of Oz also has different parts. And in my imagination, at least there is a connection between all imagined worlds: Wondeeland, Oz, Middle Earth, Narnia.

          --- In lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com, "lilongjr@..." <lilongjr@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have to jump in here. Humpty was NOT a character in "Alice in Wonderland"
          > (and, yes, I know that's not the actual title), but of "Through the
          > Looking-Glass and What Alice Found There" (which IS the actual title of that
          > book <G>; I'm nothing if not inconsistent). HOWEVER, many people who have
          > only seen one or more of the films and/or television versions of the stories
          > will think of him as a Wonderland character, as he seems to be in everyone's
          > version of the first book. In fact, most of the filmed versions of the book
          > contain characters from both books. So whether one believes Humpty (and
          > several others) to be a Wonderland character may simply be a measure of
          > their exposure to modern media and/or literary classics.
          >
          > Luke Owens
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > -------Original Message-------
          >
          > From: Michael Everson
          > Date: 2012-12-30 07:35:10
          > To: lewiscarroll@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] Use of the term "Alice in Wonderland"
          >
          > On 30 Dec 2012, at 14:33, Guy <guy.barry@...> wrote:
          >
          > > A contributor to another group has claimed that the term "Alice in
          > Wonderland" is sometimes used to refer collectively to the two Alice books.
          > Is this true?
          >
          > Not by anyone who knows what they are talking about.
          >
          > > As far as I'm concerned it refers only to the first one. Or is it all
          > right to say that (e.g.) "Humpty Dumpty is an Alice in Wonderland character
          > ?
          >
          > No. But one may say "Humpty Dumpty is a Wonderland character"
          >
          > Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >


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