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jabberwocky ????

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  • yuval_shafriri@hotmail.com
    i am looking for any interesting meaning of the poem (beside the meaningless meaning that is my favorite.......).
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 25, 2000
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      i am looking for any interesting meaning of the poem (beside the
      meaningless meaning that is my favorite.......).
    • mikeindex@aol.com
      ... Hi and welcome, I don t know of too many interpretations of the meaning of Jabberwocky, though there are several parodies and translations. The LCS of
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 26, 2000
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        yuval_shafriri@... writes:

        > i am looking for any interesting meaning of the poem (beside the
        > meaningless meaning that is my favorite.......).
        >

        Hi and welcome,
        I don't know of too many interpretations of the 'meaning' of Jabberwocky,
        though there are several parodies and translations.
        The LCS of Australia (see our list of 'links'), has a link to a specialist
        Jabberwocky website you might find helpful.
        Richard Wallace in his book 'Jack the Ripper - Light-Hearted Friend' makes
        anagrams out of the poem to further his belief that Charles Dodgson was the
        Whitechapel murderer. Wallace believes it is 'masturbatory in theme'.

        There are articles on the poem in issues 4,27, 37, 64, and 76 of the LCS
        journal, (which is itself called 'Jabberwocky'), though these mostly deal
        with the origins of the nonsense words..
        Back issues can be obtained from the LCS (again see our links page for the
        URL).

        hope this helps

        Mike
        (list moderator)
      • Keith
        Surely the only reliable explanation is the one Carroll gave, anything else says more about the interpreter than it does about Carroll. i.e. some of them are
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 26, 2000
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          Surely the only reliable explanation is the one Carroll gave, anything else
          says more about the interpreter than it does about Carroll. i.e. some of
          them are in obvious need of psychiatric help!

          The LCS mag is now 'The Carrollian' the name Jabbberwocky has been discarded
          for this publication but the old mags with the old name can sometimes still
          be had. Copies are now posted on the LCS site so I am told.

          Keith


          > yuval_shafriri@... writes:
          >
          > > i am looking for any interesting meaning of the poem (beside the
          > > meaningless meaning that is my favorite.......).
          > >
          >
          > Hi and welcome,
          > I don't know of too many interpretations of the 'meaning' of Jabberwocky,
          > though there are several parodies and translations.
          > The LCS of Australia (see our list of 'links'), has a link to a
          specialist
          > Jabberwocky website you might find helpful.
          > Richard Wallace in his book 'Jack the Ripper - Light-Hearted Friend' makes
          > anagrams out of the poem to further his belief that Charles Dodgson was
          the
          > Whitechapel murderer. Wallace believes it is 'masturbatory in theme'.
          >
          > There are articles on the poem in issues 4,27, 37, 64, and 76 of the LCS
          > journal, (which is itself called 'Jabberwocky'), though these mostly deal
          > with the origins of the nonsense words..
          > Back issues can be obtained from the LCS (again see our links page for the
          > URL).
          >
          > hope this helps
          >
          > Mike
          > (list moderator)
          >
          >
          > to unsubscribe send a blank email to:
          lewiscarroll-unsubscribe@egroups.com
          >
          >
        • Dayna McCausland
          ... There are many parodies of Jabberwocky. The Lewis Carroll Society of Canada is trying to list them all for an upcoming book. Hilda Bohem is gathering them
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 26, 2000
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            >
            >
            > Hi and welcome,
            > I don't know of too many interpretations of the 'meaning' of Jabberwocky,
            > though there are several parodies and translations.

            There are many parodies of Jabberwocky.
            The Lewis Carroll Society of Canada is trying to list them all for an upcoming
            book. Hilda Bohem is gathering them and so far has come up with over 70! The
            translations are another whole story.
            Joe Brabant (a great Canadian collector) wrote a wonderful essay on Jabberwocky
            which has been published in a limited edition of 177 (of which 2 copies were
            left last I heard). This essay covers just about everything you'd ever want to
            know about the poem.
            Dayna (up here in the cold north waving my flag!)

            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • mikeindex@aol.com
            ... Yes and they have a search facility - though it s a bit dodgy. I just typed in jabberwocky to look for the poem and got 90 entries - one for each
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 26, 2000
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              Keith writes:

              > The LCS mag is now 'The Carrollian' the name Jabbberwocky has been discarded
              > for this publication but the old mags with the old name can sometimes still
              > be had. Copies are now posted on the LCS site so I am told.
              >

              Yes and they have a search facility - though it's a bit dodgy. I just typed
              in 'jabberwocky' to look for the poem and got '90' entries - one for each
              edition of the 'Jabberwocky' journal!
              Got the same result with 'jabberwock'.
              So not quite running at speed at the moment.

              Strangely enough I was actually commissioned by the LCS about three years ago
              to compile a hard copy index for the whole Jabberwocky journal.
              It was a rather surreal experience.
              They'd been planning this index for the best part of 30 years when I joined
              the society, and they seemed desperate for anyone to take it on.
              So as a professional indexer and copy-editor I volunteered and was greeted
              with a chorus of thanks.
              I did the work for free. It took about a hundred hours and would have cost
              them well over £1000 at professional rates.

              The next I heard they had decided to junk the WHOLE thing and ask someone
              else to do another one - because I hadn't included a keyword search!

              I did suggest it might be more sensible and much quicker for me just to add
              in a keyword search to what we had, but no - they preferred to throw it all
              out and start again.
              I don't know if they got another volunteer professional or if this time they
              had to pay.

              I don't blame them or begrudge the 100 hours wasted time, since I'm sure they
              were doing what they thought was right. But it was a very unusual way of
              going about business to say the least!

              Anyhow I still have this complete index to the whole journal (minus keyword
              search!), so if anyone would like something looked up or would like a copy
              for themselves - let me know.

              cheers
              Mike
            • Keith
              Mike, I ve had the same experience with CLD s photography at Bradford. It s all right to catalogue it and do the work it as long as it does not step on
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 26, 2000
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                Mike,

                I've had the same experience with CLD's photography at Bradford. It's all
                right to catalogue it and do the work it as long as it does not step on
                someone elses perceived territory. I'm doing it in any case but it has
                caused bad feeling and one member is not now speaking to me - a very
                immature response to all the hard graft I have put in at Bradford so I know
                exactly how you feel about your work.

                I find the whole literary scene one of great puzzlement and inefficiency.
                People hide under the supposed banner of interlectualism. As John Lennon
                said 'avant garde' is french for bullshit, I share his sentiments in a
                parallel type of situation.

                If you have an index to Jabberwocky then I'd be pleased to have a copy.

                Keith

                Subject: Re: [lewiscarroll] jabberwocky ????


                Keith writes:

                > The LCS mag is now 'The Carrollian' the name Jabbberwocky has been
                discarded
                > for this publication but the old mags with the old name can sometimes
                still
                > be had. Copies are now posted on the LCS site so I am told.
                >

                Yes and they have a search facility - though it's a bit dodgy. I just typed
                in 'jabberwocky' to look for the poem and got '90' entries - one for each
                edition of the 'Jabberwocky' journal!
                Got the same result with 'jabberwock'.
                So not quite running at speed at the moment.

                Strangely enough I was actually commissioned by the LCS about three years
                ago
                to compile a hard copy index for the whole Jabberwocky journal.
                It was a rather surreal experience.
                They'd been planning this index for the best part of 30 years when I joined
                the society, and they seemed desperate for anyone to take it on.
                So as a professional indexer and copy-editor I volunteered and was greeted
                with a chorus of thanks.
                I did the work for free. It took about a hundred hours and would have cost
                them well over £1000 at professional rates.

                The next I heard they had decided to junk the WHOLE thing and ask someone
                else to do another one - because I hadn't included a keyword search!

                I did suggest it might be more sensible and much quicker for me just to add
                in a keyword search to what we had, but no - they preferred to throw it all
                out and start again.
                I don't know if they got another volunteer professional or if this time they
                had to pay.

                I don't blame them or begrudge the 100 hours wasted time, since I'm sure
                they
                were doing what they thought was right. But it was a very unusual way of
                going about business to say the least!

                Anyhow I still have this complete index to the whole journal (minus keyword
                search!), so if anyone would like something looked up or would like a copy
                for themselves - let me know.

                cheers
                Mike




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              • Dave Hardenbrook
                ... I still can t get over the assertion that _Hunting of the Snark_ represents the primal scene , with the Baker ( erect and sublime....plunge into a chasm )
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 26, 2000
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                  At 09:38 AM 9/26/00 +0100, Keith wrote:
                  >Surely the only reliable explanation is the one Carroll gave, anything else
                  >says more about the interpreter than it does about Carroll. i.e. some of
                  >them are in obvious need of psychiatric help!

                  I still can't get over the assertion that _Hunting of the Snark_ represents
                  the "primal scene", with the Baker ("erect and sublime....plunge into a chasm')
                  representing the man's "Very Naughty Bit Indeed".

                  While "Jabberwocky" has come up I have a question: I'm writing a novel
                  in which I quote verbatim a translation of "Jabberwocky" into Italian. Is
                  this okay since "Jabberwocky" is in public domain, or am I infringing on
                  the copyright of the translator?



                  -- Dave
                • mikeindex@aol.com
                  ... Hi Dave, I am not too sure whether there would be a copyright issue here or not. Another member here, Hugues Lebailly is a translator so maybe he can tell
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 29, 2000
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                    DaveH47@... writes:
                    > While "Jabberwocky" has come up I have a question: I'm writing a novel
                    > in which I quote verbatim a translation of "Jabberwocky" into Italian. Is
                    > this okay since "Jabberwocky" is in public domain, or am I infringing on
                    > the copyright of the translator?
                    >


                    Hi Dave,
                    I am not too sure whether there would be a copyright issue here or not.
                    Another member here, Hugues Lebailly is a translator so maybe he can tell
                    you. Hugues?

                    If the translation you are talking about is in print then there'd be little
                    likelihood of any comeback to your reproducing it, since it would be covered
                    by the (admittedly nebulous) concept of 'fair-dealing'.

                    What's this novel of yours about? You are welcome to plug it shamelessly here
                    - providing it is Carroll-related.

                    cheers
                    Mike
                  • Mary Wardle
                    ... Copyright law in Italy treats authors and translators alike and, therefore, all original and translated works are covered by copyright up until 70 years
                    Message 9 of 9 , Oct 2, 2000
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                      >While "Jabberwocky" has come up I have a question: I'm writing a novel
                      >in which I quote verbatim a translation of "Jabberwocky" into Italian. Is
                      >this okay since "Jabberwocky" is in public domain, or am I infringing on
                      >the copyright of the translator?


                      Copyright law in Italy treats authors and translators alike and, therefore,
                      all original and translated works are covered by copyright up until 70
                      years after the author/translator's death. In the case of translators,
                      rights are usually sold to the publishing company for 20 years and then
                      revert to the translator. If you're planning on quoting such a short piece,
                      I can't really see that anybody would object, but it might be best just to
                      contact the pub. company and get their permission.
                      Which translation are you planning on quoting from?

                      HTH,

                      Mary


                      Mary Wardle
                      Dipartimento di anglistica
                      Facoltà di letere
                      Università di Roma "La Sapienza"
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